Political Discussion Topic
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- Callid
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Re: Political Discussion Topic
I didn't mean to not acknowledge Israel. It was probably a translation mistake, since the conflict is named "Palästinakonflikt" in German (lit. translation: Palestine Conflict), the name does not have the meaning of not acknowledging Israel, it's just the German name of the region around the Jordan. The state is named Isreal as well, though.Kor wrote:At first when I read this I thought "it's ISRAEL!" but that's due to my israelien (that's not a word) education...it's like Jerusalame. We say it's the capital city, yet no country wants to acknowledge that, personally I couldn't care less cause I hate Jerusalame anyway, it's just a bunch of historical stuff lying around.Callid wrote: If the states have not declared official war but still fights take place, attacks happen and assaults are common we have an unofficial war. An example would be Palestine (while no war is happening)
some countries don't even acknowledge Israel as Israel, but as you said, Palestine.
Regarding Obama, I had an english teacher from the US who was fairly disappointed from him. I think that a lot of people are. In Israel, they probably wanted him to take sides with them...but even with his "side" I don't think the conflict in our zone will ever be solved. There are attacks every week from Gaza. A soldier was kidnapped more than 1000 days ago and he is still a prisoner somewhere. The Hamas will never agree for peace and will always want more. I don't think there should be war, but no one accepts the fact that we live here since we first got here, and I doubt they will start now. While war isn't likely to happen anytime soon, a war WILL happen sometime because both sides will get into other disagreements again.
hmm...I did slide from Obama...what I know from Obama, is that he talks a lot and he talks how he doesn't want war. Every month now, Israel says "We are going to attack Iran's nuclear bases" and Iran says "Yeah, we dare you." and the US says "Don't attack Iran." and Israel is like "Ok." how long will it take until people stop to listen to Obama?
Actually you will probably be surprised that I'm not on the side of those that consider discussion the only solution.
Although I do see a discussion as the best possible solution, I also agree that this alone will not work in most cases, since states like China or North Korea don't want to talk with us, it's just that we want to talk with them. Therefore we have to find a way that these states want to talk with us, not the other way around. So, if we want China to acknowledge human rights, we simply put an embargo on it (although the whole first world has to work together on this). China has now no way of selling it's products ( the third world is not interested in toys that much) and wants the first world to stop the embargo. So it's longing for a discussion. The first world is willing to end the embargo, but only if China acknowledges (and acts according to) the human rights...
But, considering Palestine (or Israel, choose yourself), you're probably right. As long as no crazy leader screws one of the conflict parties (as in Germany), one party ceases to exist or one does give up (very unlikely, but not impossible. Jerusalem is also an important city to Christianity, but we are not claiming it for our own), there will be no final solution, only ones for short periods of time.
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Re: Political Discussion Topic
Oh shi--political thread. Now I'm a little afraid to say anything in case I rile anybody up with my views.
I'm not a fan of Obama's views, but his undeniably powerful charisma, articulation and personality are pretty admirable to me, but here it goes.
Most of the problems with Obama's winning of the Nobel Peace Prize has to do with the due date, which was February 1st. Obama wasn't even in office for two weeks; though he has made promises for peace, had the Arafat talks, and took care of those missiles bound for Europe, those were all done *past* that due date. If he was to win anything, I'd wait a couple more years to see if he carries out more of his promises.
Though Nobel Peace Prize picks are questionable; sometimes the prize seems like a complete joke. I was shocked to find that Mahatma Gandhi and Pope John Paul II never were accepted, though their peaceful actions are highly blatant and respected. There are also people whom I don't think deserved it at all considering who could have won, but I won;t go into that. *dodges bricks*

Most of the problems with Obama's winning of the Nobel Peace Prize has to do with the due date, which was February 1st. Obama wasn't even in office for two weeks; though he has made promises for peace, had the Arafat talks, and took care of those missiles bound for Europe, those were all done *past* that due date. If he was to win anything, I'd wait a couple more years to see if he carries out more of his promises.
Though Nobel Peace Prize picks are questionable; sometimes the prize seems like a complete joke. I was shocked to find that Mahatma Gandhi and Pope John Paul II never were accepted, though their peaceful actions are highly blatant and respected. There are also people whom I don't think deserved it at all considering who could have won, but I won;t go into that. *dodges bricks*
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Re: Political Discussion Topic
no no, I didn't mean it that way. I honesty don't mind which word is going to be used since both are the same and state the same conflict anyway. It's just my ehh...israeli pride maybe (or in other words, the brainwash from my 12 years of school) like two years ago in eleventh grade, Zahal (the israeli army) came to my school and they showed us a movie of "Israel is the best country in the world" and all of its accomplishments, the only bad thing in that case, that they "forgot" to mention all the screwups of Israel as well, thus as I said, brainwashing. Fortunately, I can think for myself....Callid wrote: I didn't mean to not acknowledge Israel. It was probably a translation mistake, since the conflict is named "Palästinakonflikt" in German (lit. translation: Palestine Conflict), the name does not have the meaning of not acknowledging Israel, it's just the German name of the region around the Jordan. The state is named Isreal as well, though.
Anyway, in Israel, there was no proper government since I was born, and as far as I think, I don't think there was EVER a proper government (or at least prime minister) in Israel. With the palestines, I think it's the same case, although a bit different, since for many years they didn't want to talk to us and only disagree and fight, but even now when they talk, they don't aim for peace. The ruling party is breaking apart, especially after an incident from two weeks ago (with the Gordon report or something like that) so soon the ruling party will probably someone who hates Israel.
I actually don't see THAT much difference from Israel and the Palestines. They all want to live in this land (notice that I say "they" because with all honesty, I just wait for a chance to go the hell away from here and move to a better place...since I'm half german then germany is my best and favorite choice


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Re: Political Discussion Topic
I'm not that familiar with the situation "down there" (although a held (made?) a lesson about the 2. Intifada), but I do agree with you, it fits together with everything I know about it (and my thoughts based on this^^). After all, it's similar to what I wrote above.Kor wrote:no no, I didn't mean it that way. I honesty don't mind which word is going to be used since both are the same and state the same conflict anyway. It's just my ehh...israeli pride maybe (or in other words, the brainwash from my 12 years of school) like two years ago in eleventh grade, Zahal (the israeli army) came to my school and they showed us a movie of "Israel is the best country in the world" and all of its accomplishments, the only bad thing in that case, that they "forgot" to mention all the screwups of Israel as well, thus as I said, brainwashing. Fortunately, I can think for myself....Callid wrote: I didn't mean to not acknowledge Israel. It was probably a translation mistake, since the conflict is named "Palästinakonflikt" in German (lit. translation: Palestine Conflict), the name does not have the meaning of not acknowledging Israel, it's just the German name of the region around the Jordan. The state is named Isreal as well, though.
Anyway, in Israel, there was no proper government since I was born, and as far as I think, I don't think there was EVER a proper government (or at least prime minister) in Israel. With the palestines, I think it's the same case, although a bit different, since for many years they didn't want to talk to us and only disagree and fight, but even now when they talk, they don't aim for peace. The ruling party is breaking apart, especially after an incident from two weeks ago (with the Gordon report or something like that) so soon the ruling party will probably someone who hates Israel.
I actually don't see THAT much difference from Israel and the Palestines. They all want to live in this land (notice that I say "they" because with all honesty, I just wait for a chance to go the hell away from here and move to a better place...since I'm half german then germany is my best and favorite choice), both of them disagree on a lot of things. The only major difference regarding their conflict policies is that in Israel, they say for a lot of years now "Don't worry, we will have peace someday." while the other side says all the time "Don't worry, we will make the Israelis move away from here and soon Israel won't exist." so with that attitude, any attempt for peace is failed fromthe start.
Allerdings solltest du, bevor du nach Deutschland kommst, deutsch lernen.^^
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Re: Political Discussion Topic
I did start to learn german though ;) I was born there and lived there until I was 3 years old and occasionally I fly to there in the summer, so I can understand pretty good german (when people talk at least). When I get some more money I can continue to learn.Callid wrote:I'm not that familiar with the situation "down there" (although a held (made?) a lesson about the 2. Intifada), but I do agree with you, it fits together with everything I know about it (and my thoughts based on this^^). After all, it's similar to what I wrote above.Kor wrote:no no, I didn't mean it that way. I honesty don't mind which word is going to be used since both are the same and state the same conflict anyway. It's just my ehh...israeli pride maybe (or in other words, the brainwash from my 12 years of school) like two years ago in eleventh grade, Zahal (the israeli army) came to my school and they showed us a movie of "Israel is the best country in the world" and all of its accomplishments, the only bad thing in that case, that they "forgot" to mention all the screwups of Israel as well, thus as I said, brainwashing. Fortunately, I can think for myself....Callid wrote: I didn't mean to not acknowledge Israel. It was probably a translation mistake, since the conflict is named "Palästinakonflikt" in German (lit. translation: Palestine Conflict), the name does not have the meaning of not acknowledging Israel, it's just the German name of the region around the Jordan. The state is named Isreal as well, though.
Anyway, in Israel, there was no proper government since I was born, and as far as I think, I don't think there was EVER a proper government (or at least prime minister) in Israel. With the palestines, I think it's the same case, although a bit different, since for many years they didn't want to talk to us and only disagree and fight, but even now when they talk, they don't aim for peace. The ruling party is breaking apart, especially after an incident from two weeks ago (with the Gordon report or something like that) so soon the ruling party will probably someone who hates Israel.
I actually don't see THAT much difference from Israel and the Palestines. They all want to live in this land (notice that I say "they" because with all honesty, I just wait for a chance to go the hell away from here and move to a better place...since I'm half german then germany is my best and favorite choice ;)), both of them disagree on a lot of things. The only major difference regarding their conflict policies is that in Israel, they say for a lot of years now "Don't worry, we will have peace someday." while the other side says all the time "Don't worry, we will make the Israelis move away from here and soon Israel won't exist." so with that attitude, any attempt for peace is failed fromthe start.
Allerdings solltest du, bevor du nach Deutschland kommst, deutsch lernen.^^
Last edited by Kor on October 10th, 2009, 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Political Discussion Topic
Obama is really a great presindent much better than a portuguese prime minister José Socrates in one of the speaches he said
"Para uma paÃs mais justo, para um paÃs mais pobre"
Translation: "For a fairer country, for a poorer country"
What prime minister says this about his country.
"Para uma paÃs mais justo, para um paÃs mais pobre"
Translation: "For a fairer country, for a poorer country"
What prime minister says this about his country.
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Re: Political Discussion Topic
Obama is no better, going around and apologizing for the U.S, calling us arrogant and everythingElika12 wrote: Obama is really a great presindent much better than a portuguese prime minister José Socrates in one of the speaches he said
"Para uma paÃs mais justo, para um paÃs mais pobre"
Translation: "For a fairer country, for a poorer country"
What prime minister says this about his country.
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Re: Political Discussion Topic
Faked global warming?Chaosangel21 wrote: Anyone else realize just how fake global warming is?

*trying to keep my countenance*
Where are you living?
*getting calm again*
Well then...
I think there are enough proofs to global warming (we discussed this topic in school - let's say - for about 1000 hours (yes, we did) and just tomorrow there's another speech organized by the city that has a higher priority then any normal lesson and is obligatory to any student of the school).
I would just name
- the melting ice at the poles
- rising temperatures
- rising sea level
- shrinking of glacier ice
- moving of climatic zones
- increase of forest fires
- warming of the sea
- acidification of the oceans
- etc.
This is nothing to criticize you; if you're not living in Europe you will probably not know everything about it (and if your living in the USA, you're excused anyway. After all, science like biology are even lagging behind 200 years, thninking of Darwin...).
For further information I suggest Wikipedia (global warming is even a featured article, as I notice).
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Re: Political Discussion Topic
The rest of the world thinks that way(me too^^), so it's perhaps not a bad idea...Chaosangel21 wrote:Obama is no better, going around and apologizing for the U.S, calling us arrogant and everythingElika12 wrote: Obama is really a great presindent much better than a portuguese prime minister José Socrates in one of the speaches he said
"Para uma paÃs mais justo, para um paÃs mais pobre"
Translation: "For a fairer country, for a poorer country"
What prime minister says this about his country.
And if that's bad, Germany has to have terrible presidents for 60 years now. Every one of them complained about our own faults in history, can you imagine that?
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Re: Political Discussion Topic
wikipedia? (figures since that's where liberals get they're information) there has been PLENTY of scientific evidence to prove that the earth has been cooling down for the past few years, man made global warming doesn't even account for 1/4 of a degree, tens of thousands of scientists have been coming out against al gore and his global warming scam, but you don't see them on anywhere except Fox News(the only real news station left) because most of the media is controlled by liberals and other people on the leftCallid wrote:Faked global warming?Chaosangel21 wrote: Anyone else realize just how fake global warming is?
*trying to keep my countenance*
Where are you living?
*getting calm again*
Well then...
I think there are enough proofs to global warming (we discussed this topic in school - let's say - for about 1000 hours (yes, we did) and just tomorrow there's another speech organized by the city that has a higher priority then any normal lesson and is obligatory to any student of the school).
I would just name
- the melting ice at the poles
- rising temperatures
- rising sea level
- shrinking of glacier ice
- moving of climatic zones
- increase of forest fires
- warming of the sea
- acidification of the oceans
- etc.
This is nothing to criticize you; if you're not living in Europe you will probably not know everything about it (and if your living in the USA, you're excused anyway. After all, science like biology are even lagging behind 200 years, thninking of Darwin...).
For further information I suggest Wikipedia (global warming is even a featured article, as I notice).
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Re: Political Discussion Topic
As you might have read, I live in Germany and therefore do not watch any American news station (Al Gore was first mentioned around the 900th lesson, btw).Chaosangel21 wrote: wikipedia? (figures since that's where liberals get they're information) there has been PLENTY of scientific evidence to prove that the earth has been cooling down for the past few years, man made global warming doesn't even account for 1/4 of a degree, tens of thousands of scientists have been coming out against al gore and his global warming scam, but you don't see them on anywhere except Fox News(the only real news station left) because most of the media is controlled by liberals and other people on the left
Of course you can simply deny any figure and every statistic that does say that there's a global warming, but if, as you said, the earth is cooling down, then how do you explain the shrinking of pole ice and other glaciers around the world? Or do you just want to tell me that the earth is getting cooler, but the mountains are getting wormer? And how do explain the increase of forest fires (just to stay to the topics where facts can't be denied)?
It may be that some figures of A.G. were exaggerated (although I doubt that), but global warming does definitely take place and its developments are terrifying and will probably be a danger to humanity in 50 years.
Why do you think all of the states (except for the USA of course) signed at Kyoto? Why do you think all parties in Germany agree about the danger of global warming? Why do you think all those states are that worried about global warming if it doesn't exist? Are all those politicians of about 200 states of the world blinded - by one party from the USA?
Do you really believe that?
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Re: Political Discussion Topic
Let's tackle this one by oneCallid wrote:As you might have read, I live in Germany and therefore do not watch any American news station (Al Gore was first mentioned around the 900th lesson, btw).Chaosangel21 wrote: wikipedia? (figures since that's where liberals get they're information) there has been PLENTY of scientific evidence to prove that the earth has been cooling down for the past few years, man made global warming doesn't even account for 1/4 of a degree, tens of thousands of scientists have been coming out against al gore and his global warming scam, but you don't see them on anywhere except Fox News(the only real news station left) because most of the media is controlled by liberals and other people on the left
Of course you can simply deny any figure and every statistic that does say that there's a global warming, but if, as you said, the earth is cooling down, then how do you explain the shrinking of pole ice and other glaciers around the world? Or do you just want to tell me that the earth is getting cooler, but the mountains are getting wormer? And how do explain the increase of forest fires (just to stay to the topics where facts can't be denied)?
It may be that some figures of A.G. were exaggerated (although I doubt that), but global warming does definitely take place and its developments are terrifying and will probably be a danger to humanity in 50 years.
Why do you think all of the states (except for the USA of course) signed at Kyoto? Why do you think all parties in Germany agree about the danger of global warming? Why do you think all those states are that worried about global warming if it doesn't exist? Are all those politicians of about 200 states of the world blinded - by one party from the USA?
Do you really believe that?
1. The polar ice caps: the polar ice caps are BLOCK OF ICE submerged in water, go home, get a big container, fill it up with water, freeze it, then put the big block of ice in freezing cold water, it may not melt right away but it WILL MELT that's what happens when ice is submerged in anything, it's going to melt
2:Increase in forest fires: you can attribute that to 2 things, stupidity, and local climate, most forest fires are caused by man, which throws 1/2 of your argument out of the window, the other half is caused by local things like humidity and dry brush, by your theory since it's "Global" warming, forest fires should be erupting all across the globe but at least here in the U.S you only see forest fires in California and that's because those morons won't get rid of all that dry brush
and to conclude this whole global warming thing is just a big scam made to find an excuse to tax companies and businesses, the entire world is jumping on board for one reason, what government wouldn't want to find another crappy excuse to tax people
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Re: Political Discussion Topic
While global warming is a potential threat (Christ, has anyone seen the Alps today compared to how they looked 20 years ago?), I doubt it's *as* bad as it is made out to be. I say just research (An Inconvenient Truth doesn't count; it has informed, but most of that material, such as the graphs, were taken from Day After Tomorrow and many scientists have disputed Gore's claims) and form your own opinions about it. The threat itself is exaggerated, but it is there. There is cooling, but I usually see it as the eye of the storm if the world isn't careful and doesn't interfere with the natural course of things. It's just best to be on your toes.
But I do feel as though you can't really make critiques about Obama without getting your ass flamed by the media though; at times it feels like they fawn over him. Even SNL angered CNN over their Obama skits when it was only played for laughs. I wouldn't dismiss the 'Leftist media' thing as a complete myth, especially considering some of the "DOMESTIC REDNECK TERRORIST" and "RACIST BIGOT" pigeonholing that has happened to anyone who so much as disagrees lightly. Parts of the media are biased in some ways; you can't exactly avoid it, annoying as it is.
That aside, I always get nervous when typing out posts like this. I'm not afraid of people disagreeing (that's only natural; everyone is different), but I am afraid of being stereotyped for my views. :/
But I do feel as though you can't really make critiques about Obama without getting your ass flamed by the media though; at times it feels like they fawn over him. Even SNL angered CNN over their Obama skits when it was only played for laughs. I wouldn't dismiss the 'Leftist media' thing as a complete myth, especially considering some of the "DOMESTIC REDNECK TERRORIST" and "RACIST BIGOT" pigeonholing that has happened to anyone who so much as disagrees lightly. Parts of the media are biased in some ways; you can't exactly avoid it, annoying as it is.
That aside, I always get nervous when typing out posts like this. I'm not afraid of people disagreeing (that's only natural; everyone is different), but I am afraid of being stereotyped for my views. :/
Last edited by NotSoFluent on October 13th, 2009, 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.