Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,032–1,034

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
andi2ews
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,032–1,03X

Postby andi2ews » April 30th, 2019, 11:52 am

I’d like to show you what i found when file 1032 was released. Initially i didn’t wanted to make a post about this but as it seems nobody has yet figure it out, I convinced myself to talk about it.

Spoiler:
In file 1032 it is revealed, through a little flashback of Wakasa Rumi, that she has seen Haneda Kohji’s dead body 17 yers ago in live, confirming that she was involved in that case. But she is not the only character who remembers Kohji’s dead body, in fact also Kuroda has a similar memories while reading news about Rumi itself. So I decided to compare the two memories and this is what i found.

Image

Image


As you can see by this two images, i circled the parts of one image that present differences with the other picture. like the game find the differences.
Thanks to Rumi’s memories we are able to find a specific detail in Kuroda’s memory, circled in red. Kuroda remembers Kohji with the HALF-OPEN right eye.
In the part circled in blue instead, we can notice that Kohji’s mouth is open too in Kuroda’s memory, while in Rumi’s not.
This prove that they remember Kohji’s corpse in two different moments, and more precisely:
- Rumi remember Kohji after he died

while..
- Kuroda remember Kohji in point of death

this doesnt prove Kuroda is Kohji’s killer, but i think is probable. I think this is a very important clue, because is a clue only findable analyzing this two illustration, and not a simple red herring like he could only have seen him just before dying.

My personal opinion is that all three RUM-suspescts are BO Member and this why:
- Rumi has APTX victim list, only accessible by BO Member, and not all, for that matter
- Kuroda has called Amuro “Bourbun”, and only BO Member are a knowledge of codenames. Amuro should not have informed his superiors about this info, because it could compromise him if the BO discovered it. (if they listened to the call, for example, they might find that a person outside the group calls him “Bourbun”)
- Wakita has no evidence of being a BO member, but he shows many interest in Kogoro and Shinichi. (I think Wakita is RUM aka Chikara Katsumata but this is another story of which i could talk about in another post)

What I really want to understand is Wakasa Rumi’s goal. The fact that she becomes Conan's new teacher and tries to approach him several times presupposes that she is aware of Conan, in practice she knows him. I Don’t know if she knows his true identity but maybe she is trying to testing his skill making him solves cases for what purpose I don't know. And i can't understand why she decided to become his teacher and stay at school, to get that role she needed a vacancy.
Also Kuroda seems to know Conan, so much to trust his deductive skill and calls him 'Brains behind the Sleeping Kogoro’.
if he is a BO as theorized before he could be Vermouth, and this could explain, from a different point a view, why Amuro is working with Kuroda; Their is a BO relations and not a Police relation.



What do you think about this guys? this will be my presentation post here on the forum.
ultraviolence
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,032–1,03X

Postby ultraviolence » May 1st, 2019, 6:46 pm

andi2ews wrote:Thanks to Rumi’s memories we are able to find a specific detail in Kuroda’s memory, circled in red. Kuroda remembers Kohji with the HALF-OPEN right eye.
In the part circled in blue instead, we can notice that Kohji’s mouth is open too in Kuroda’s memory, while in Rumi’s not.
This prove that they remember Kohji’s corpse in two different moments, and more precisely:
- Rumi remember Kohji after he died

while..
- Kuroda remember Kohji in point of death

Interesting observation, that could be a huge discovery if Kouji's eye is truly not fully closed in Kuroda's memory. I think since the picture is not crystal clear, it's hard to tell what's going on with his eye there, but the drawing does indeed look different than in Rumi's memory.

andi2ews wrote: My personal opinion is that all three RUM-suspects are BO Member and this why:
- Rumi has APTX victim list, only accessible by BO Member, and not all, for that matter
- Kuroda has called Amuro “Bourbon”, and only BO Member are a knowledge of codenames. Amuro should not have informed his superiors about this info, because it could compromise him if the BO discovered it. (if they listened to the call, for example, they might find that a person outside the group calls him “Bourbon”)
- Wakita has no evidence of being a BO member, but he shows many interest in Kogoro and Shinichi. (I think Wakita is RUM aka Chikara Katsumata but this is another story of which i could talk about in another post)

I think this would be a good opportunity to introduce three BO agents at once and the BO could need some manpower, but I really don't know if that's going to happen. Kuroda and Rumi are already acting hostile towards each other, but then again they could be rivals within the BO if your opinion turns out to be spot on. By the way, do you think Rumi is Asaka (and as a result Asaka is from the BO)? And what about Tsutomu Akai?


Spoiler:
MeiTanteixX wrote:"Such as a Detective, who'd change it to something that makes it easier to extract information"
--> Kuroda

"Or a Spy, who'd turn into someone well suited to the place they're infiltrating"
--> Wakita

"Or Someone who'd pose as someone else to deceive people..."
--> Wakasa
Image

That scene really stood out to me too, although I don't know what's the right interpretation there when we apply that to our Rum-suspects-situation.
andi2ews
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,032–1,03X

Postby andi2ews » May 2nd, 2019, 10:48 am

ultraviolence wrote:
andi2ews wrote:Thanks to Rumi’s memories we are able to find a specific detail in Kuroda’s memory, circled in red. Kuroda remembers Kohji with the HALF-OPEN right eye.
In the part circled in blue instead, we can notice that Kohji’s mouth is open too in Kuroda’s memory, while in Rumi’s not.
This prove that they remember Kohji’s corpse in two different moments, and more precisely:
- Rumi remember Kohji after he died

while..
- Kuroda remember Kohji in point of death

Interesting observation, that could be a huge discovery if Kouji's eye is truly not fully closed in Kuroda's memory. I think since the picture is not crystal clear, it's hard to tell what's going on with his eye there, but the drawing does indeed look different than in Rumi's memory.

Im pretty sure Kohji's eye is open, since I had the same doubt too given the unclear image, but looking better it's pretty clear. Also if you notice, his face's in Rumi's memory seems much more relaxed then Kuroda's, in where seems he is much suffering.

ultraviolence wrote:
andi2ews wrote: My personal opinion is that all three RUM-suspects are BO Member and this why:
- Rumi has APTX victim list, only accessible by BO Member, and not all, for that matter
- Kuroda has called Amuro “Bourbon”, and only BO Member are a knowledge of codenames. Amuro should not have informed his superiors about this info, because it could compromise him if the BO discovered it. (if they listened to the call, for example, they might find that a person outside the group calls him “Bourbon”)
- Wakita has no evidence of being a BO member, but he shows many interest in Kogoro and Shinichi. (I think Wakita is RUM aka Chikara Katsumata but this is another story of which i could talk about in another post)

I think this would be a good opportunity to introduce three BO agents at once and the BO could need some manpower, but I really don't know if that's going to happen. Kuroda and Rumi are already acting hostile towards each other, but then again they could be rivals within the BO if your opinion turns out to be spot on. By the way, do you think Rumi is Asaka (and as a result Asaka is from the BO)? And what about Tsutomu Akai?


According to file 1033, seems that Rumi Wakasa spoke directly with Kohji Haneda. Now it's unclear if she was warning him about his death or not but Kohji told "you (Rumi/BO?) will kill me" so this therefore presupposes that at least she is connected to his death because otherwise he surely have told "they" referring to BO and excluding her from list of suspect. Rumi also says "such a foolish guy" and if he was a Rumi's acquaintance i think she would refer him in a different way maybe don't saying the word "guy". If she is Asaka and Kohji told her "you will kill me" it could means she is a BO, if she is not Asaka why they were talking? and in particular, of that subject? then the two possibilities lead both to RUMI -> MIB. If she is a MIB, it must be a old member since she was operative 17 years ago.

for Tsutomu Akai i have no answer. i can't link him at the 17 years old case in any way


ultraviolence wrote:
Spoiler:
MeiTanteixX wrote:"Such as a Detective, who'd change it to something that makes it easier to extract information"
--> Kuroda

"Or a Spy, who'd turn into someone well suited to the place they're infiltrating"
--> Wakita

"Or Someone who'd pose as someone else to deceive people..."
--> Wakasa
Image

That scene really stood out to me too, although I don't know what's the right interpretation there when we apply that to our Rum-suspects-situation.


Spoiler:
"Such as a Detective, who'd change it to something that makes it easier to extract information"[/i]
--> Tsutomu ???

"Or a Spy, who'd turn into someone well suited to the place they're infiltrating"
--> Kuroda
-Differently from the other 2 RUM suspects, Kuroda has never shown any strange behavior in the presence of others so as to make it suspicious in the eyes of the people. WE know that Kuroda is suspicious because of his EYE, we know thanks some panel that he's linked to Kohji Haneda's case and also that he is in contact with Amuro but no one character notice this, only the reader. While Rumi and Wakita instead shows many strange behavior; Rumi is totally suspicious while Wakita is a strange cook and he did his moves directly, for examples he went to Agasa's house to ask about Shinichi. They're not considerable spy because they're suspicious and for this reason easily discoverable. Also they're not infiltrating anything; infiltrating means "to secretly become part of a group in order to get information or to influence the way that group thinks or behaves:" but they don't become a part of any group where extract any info, they work privately.

"Or Someone who'd pose as someone else to deceive people..."
--> ???
jimmy_kud0_tv2
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,032–1,03X

Postby jimmy_kud0_tv2 » May 2nd, 2019, 5:26 pm

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Kor wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Spoiler:
So Rumi has the promoted bishop piece (ryūma/uma), while Kōji is seen showing off the regular bishop piece (kakugyō/kaku)... I wonder if both these bishop pieces are a part of his message...


Spoiler:
It's the same piece. When you promote pieces in shogi, you simply flip them on the board, hence it's possible the promoted bishop was never the point of focus. It's also now possible that the shogi piece was never a message in the first place cause it sounds like it was Kouji's lucky charm (or at least far as I understand, her flashback triggers when lucky charm is uttered), so perhaps there isn't a message going on there.


Spoiler:
Gotcha. But if all that matters is that it's a bishop piece—and the promotion is irrelevant—then why not show us that she has a promoted/flipped piece in 1,008 and then show us that he was (likewise) holding a promoted/flipped piece in 1,033... or show us that she has an unpromoted/unflipped piece in 1,008 and then show us that he was (likewise) holding an unpromoted/unflipped piece in 1,033?

What we've been shown is that she has a promoted/flipped piece (uma), while he was shown holding an unpromoted/unflipped piece (kaku)—one is promoted and the other is not. If this actually means something, then I can't help but wonder what.

It could be both a piece of evidence and a sentimental object.


Spoiler:
Its possible that Rumi just had it face down because she didn't want to be reminded of seeing the Kaku side. In her traumatic seeming flashback its the Kaku side that Kohji shows her, so she probably just put it face down to not be triggered, but keeps it close to her for other reasons.


andi2ews wrote:
Spoiler:
ultraviolence wrote:
andi2ews wrote:Thanks to Rumi’s memories we are able to find a specific detail in Kuroda’s memory, circled in red. Kuroda remembers Kohji with the HALF-OPEN right eye.
In the part circled in blue instead, we can notice that Kohji’s mouth is open too in Kuroda’s memory, while in Rumi’s not.
This prove that they remember Kohji’s corpse in two different moments, and more precisely:
- Rumi remember Kohji after he died

while..
- Kuroda remember Kohji in point of death

Interesting observation, that could be a huge discovery if Kouji's eye is truly not fully closed in Kuroda's memory. I think since the picture is not crystal clear, it's hard to tell what's going on with his eye there, but the drawing does indeed look different than in Rumi's memory.

Im pretty sure Kohji's eye is open, since I had the same doubt too given the unclear image, but looking better it's pretty clear. Also if you notice, his face's in Rumi's memory seems much more relaxed then Kuroda's, in where seems he is much suffering.


If you look at the volume version for Kuroda's memory its a bit more clear that its just shadow lines and not his eye open. Its pretty clear that Gosho redrew the image rather than his usual copy an existing panel to display in the background. Even the bruises are slightly different.
I hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,032–1,03X

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » May 3rd, 2019, 12:47 am

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:
Spoiler:
Its possible that Rumi just had it face down because she didn't want to be reminded of seeing the Kaku side. In her traumatic seeming flashback its the Kaku side that Kohji shows her, so she probably just put it face down to not be triggered, but keeps it close to her for other reasons.


Spoiler:
Sure, that'd explain why she had it like that...

But why did Gosho show this to us? That's my question.
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blackmoon
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,032–1,03X

Postby blackmoon » May 5th, 2019, 6:16 am

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:
Spoiler:
Its possible that Rumi just had it face down because she didn't want to be reminded of seeing the Kaku side. In her traumatic seeming flashback its the Kaku side that Kohji shows her, so she probably just put it face down to not be triggered, but keeps it close to her for other reasons.


Spoiler:
Sure, that'd explain why she had it like that...

But why did Gosho show this to us? That's my question.


Why did Gosho show the difference or why did he redraw the panel when he could have just used a copy and paste version? Was there any similar incidences where he redraw a same panel of a certain character?

only found this from this source: https://www.detectiveconanworld.com/for ... ad/?page=5

Image

Image

in fact there were 3 versions of the same panel....
Image
"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,032–1,03X

Postby Spimer » May 6th, 2019, 9:58 am

The scanlated versions look different because of better quality raw / improved grey shading, it doesn't count as an official redraw.
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Nemomon
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,032–1,03X

Postby Nemomon » May 12th, 2019, 11:22 am

Spoiler:
So Conan finally confirmed that Rumi is rather evil. Now I wonder what he will do with this knowledge. In theory he should spy her a little, but will he really do that? I wonder if (or maybe 'when'?) he will come to the conclusion that Rumi's here to spy HIM.
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I’ll teach you this old song so you can sing along
When I am dead and gone the day won’t be so long.
blackmoon
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,032–1,03X

Postby blackmoon » May 12th, 2019, 11:39 pm

Nemomon wrote:
Spoiler:
So Conan finally confirmed that Rumi is rather evil. Now I wonder what he will do with this knowledge. In theory he should spy her a little, but will he really do that? I wonder if (or maybe 'when'?) he will come to the conclusion that Rumi's here to spy HIM.


Spoiler:
Hmm.... well it's still too soon to say whether throwing away the 4 leaf clover that was given to her as a lucky charm gift proves that she is evil, but... if she would throw away a "lucky charm" that was given to her out of goodwill, then that shogi piece Rumi was keeping with her all the time can't possibly be the same "lucky charm shogi piece" from Kohji then right? After-all it's an inverted piece. ;)
"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,032–1,03X

Postby Nemomon » May 13th, 2019, 1:30 pm

blackmoon wrote:
Nemomon wrote:
Spoiler:
So Conan finally confirmed that Rumi is rather evil. Now I wonder what he will do with this knowledge. In theory he should spy her a little, but will he really do that? I wonder if (or maybe 'when'?) he will come to the conclusion that Rumi's here to spy HIM.


Spoiler:
Hmm.... well it's still too soon to say whether throwing away the 4 leaf clover that was given to her as a lucky charm gift proves that she is evil, but... if she would throw away a "lucky charm" that was given to her out of goodwill, then that shogi piece Rumi was keeping with her all the time can't possibly be the same "lucky charm shogi piece" from Kohji then right? After-all it's an inverted piece. ;)


Spoiler:
From one side You are right, but Conan was already suspicious of her. That she set up a trap in her apartament or that she can OHKO bandits. Finally in this chapter he said he doesn't want to do a sleeping Yamamura in front of Rumi, but he has no choice. Surely he must have had his reasons why he didn't want to do that in front of her, and surely he doesn't have any objections to to do that in front of Kobayashi-sensei.

Finally, the clover was given to Rumi by her pupil. Normally elementary school teachers aren't yet too ruthless like middle of high school teachers therefore they probably would keep a little longer a gift given to them by one of their children before discarding them. After all Kobayashi surely would not immediately discard it. Conan knows that this kind of behaviour is too strange, and therefore confirming that she's rather evil, and don't care about the children at all. Therefore there must be another reason why is she here (being transferred in a middle of the year).


===

Spoiler:
Interesting is another thing, though. Whether Rumi intentionally discarded it in front of Conan to let him see that, or that she didn't know that Conan seen that.
My dad’s a soldier blue I’ll be a soldier, too
When I grow older you will see me rescue you
I’ll teach you this old song so you can sing along
When I am dead and gone the day won’t be so long.
blackmoon
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,032–1,03X

Postby blackmoon » May 14th, 2019, 3:10 am

Nemomon wrote:
Spoiler:
From one side You are right, but Conan was already suspicious of her. That she set up a trap in her apartament or that she can OHKO bandits. Finally in this chapter he said he doesn't want to do a sleeping Yamamura in front of Rumi, but he has no choice. Surely he must have had his reasons why he didn't want to do that in front of her, and surely he doesn't have any objections to to do that in front of Kobayashi-sensei.
Finally, the clover was given to Rumi by her pupil. Normally elementary school teachers aren't yet too ruthless like middle of high school teachers therefore they probably would keep a little longer a gift given to them by one of their children before discarding them. After all Kobayashi surely would not immediately discard it. Conan knows that this kind of behaviour is too strange, and therefore confirming that she's rather evil, and don't care about the children at all. Therefore there must be another reason why is she here (being transferred in a middle of the year).

===
Spoiler:
Interesting is another thing, though. Whether Rumi intentionally discarded it in front of Conan to let him see that, or that she didn't know that Conan seen that.


Spoiler:
Well good point comparing Rumi with a "real" elementary teacher, yet apparently Rumi isn't a "real elementary teacher." ;D
As for the last question, well, true, her throwing away the clover could be an intentional bait for Conan to catch her doing that. After-all, it would be too bold a move to assume that nobody saw her dump the leaf right? ;)

Yet my interpretation of Rumi's reaction to that move was simply she being pissed off by being reminded of the Kohji incident which she seemingly wants to continuously dump off her mind, so not keeping a lucky charm that could remind her of the man she called "foolish?" Maybe there was something more going on "emotionally" between Rumi and Kohji then simply her being somehow related to his death? ::)
"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)
Zerozaki4869
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,032–1,03X

Postby Zerozaki4869 » May 15th, 2019, 11:19 am

There is a big difference between Kuroda and Wakita/Rumi.
Kuroda was foreshadowed by Kansuke, while Wakita/Rumi is being foreshadowed by characters appearing on TV.
Kuroda is a bonafide identity, while Wakasa/Wakita are created identities.(most likely)
So my idea is Kuroda is the real deal, while Wakita/Wakasa are just character artists playing the role of Rum/Asaka.

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