Discussion thread: Detective Conan 975-977

[jimmy_kud0_tv2]

although the sign is not usually readable in the manga, apparently Irohazushi has been there since the beginning of the series. Here are screen caps from episodes 002 and 003.

Clearer versions of the sign from more recent episodes have it saying "Edo mae Irohazushi" (江戸前 いろは寿し)
where Edomae means "tokyo style"

where as the manga just has it as "Beika Irohazushi" (米花 いろは寿し)

[MeiTanteixX]

Wakita Kanenori

I see two possibilites for Wakita's character...

There was so many similarites between his intro and Bourbon's, mainly because it's a restaurant setting involving a waitering detective. Beyond that however, I see one specific similarity, and that's the mention of alcoholic drinks. In Bourbon arc, it was mentioned that Amuro ordered Bourbon before, which was like Gosho's indication that this new character is Bourbon to us. Amuro also tried to deny that he is connected to spy-like behaviors, which again was Gosho's way of teasing us with the truth.

In the latest chapter with Wakita however, we get the indirect mention of Rum. The Red Thread noticed that the horse that won is called "Pirate's Spirit", which refers to a pirate's alcohol, which is Rum. The way Wakita said that Kogoro chose such a weak horse(Pirate's spirit=Rum) looks like an indication to me that Gosho is saying Wakita has some form of rivalry/antipathy with Rum, or sees Rum as someone beneath him. Along with the fact that someone with an artificial eye doesn't use an eye-patch, unless they are ashamed to show it(which in that case doesn't make sense that he would openly offer to show his "damaged eye"), it seems more likely that he isn't Rum. (and let's not forget his "out-there-characteristics").

Here are the two possibilities:
- Wakita is someone with a grudge against Rum(BO) who might be working with an agency, or is simply connected to one of Rum's victims.
- Wakita is a BO member who underestimates Rum and sees himself as a rival

I think the second option seems highly likely at the moment because of another possible hint from Gosho. The hint to him being a BO member could be Gosho's actual reference in this case to The Darkest Nightmare drawn cover art. Gosho most likely used the horse in the movie cover to make a reference in this chapter, which will potentially connect itself to the BO(the star of movie 20). Gosho might be implying that Wakita, who represents the "Darkest Nightmare" horse (that races with "Pirate's Spirit"(Rum)), will be another BO character that might be up to something that can be referred to as "the darkest nightmare"(like the movie), and I think that this might be related to Gin's suspicion on Kogoro. Wakita could be working with Gin to investigate Kogoro and see if he is worth eliminating, which could potentially endanger the Mouri(similar to the spies in the movie). Going back to Wakita's comment to Kogoro, maybe it's Gosho's way of saying that the Boss chose Rum("Pirate's Spirit") over Wakita("Darkest Nightmare") as the second-in-command. In this case, maybe his code-name is a spirit that is from the "Dark spirit" category like "Brandy". Brandy is a distilled beverage that is classified as a hard liquor, which follows the pattern that all male members's have code-names that are hard liquors.

Remember that this is just speculation based on Gosho's implications, that are open for many interpretations.

[dccd]

##

Agree with everything.
That "another bo-member"-theory actually crossed my mind aswell.
Guess thats way more likely than my idea:
He´s Tsutomu Akai.

[estuputri]

Spoiler:

Whether or not Kanenori Wakita is supposed to be a red herring, he theoretically meets at least three out of the four criteria which are attributed to Rum: His injury might make him look like having an artificial eye, his compact figure might make him look muscular, and his kyphotic posture might make him look like an old man. Besides, he appears to have quite cheerful moments, which might be distortive in text communication.

All this is rather vague and seems too obvious to me, though. While the idea that the Mouri Detective Agency is not only targeted by Gin from afar, but also immediately surrounded by both Bourbon and Rum is certainly appealing, I doubt that the number two would be introduced just like that.

Anyway, I still hope that this case will eventually provide a useful hint as to why those descriptions are so conflicting. Or my assumption that Aoyama has some mind-blowing resolution for this mystery is naive, and it actually is as simple as it would be with Kanenori Wakita.

Spoiler:

well, after I read it, I agree that it possibly Rum appearance. Wakita is suddently around kogoro. He interest to join kogoro in case. Maybe he is in his disguise. Just like Amuro.

[Filipino_4869]

Wakita Kanenori

I see two possibilites for Wakita's character...

There was so many similarites between his intro and Bourbon's, mainly because it's a restaurant setting involving a waitering detective. Beyond that however, I see one specific similarity, and that's the mention of alcoholic drinks. In Bourbon arc, it was mentioned that Amuro ordered Bourbon before, which was like Gosho's indication that this new character is Bourbon to us. Amuro also tried to deny that he is connected to spy-like behaviors, which again was Gosho's way of teasing us with the truth.

In the latest chapter with Wakita however, we get the indirect mention of Rum. The Red Thread noticed that the horse that won is called "Pirate's Spirit", which refers to a pirate's alcohol, which is Rum. The way Wakita said that Kogoro chose such a weak horse(Pirate's spirit=Rum) looks like an indication to me that Gosho is saying Wakita has some form of rivalry/antipathy with Rum, or sees Rum as someone beneath him. Along with the fact that someone with an artificial eye doesn't use an eye-patch, unless they are ashamed to show it(which in that case doesn't make sense that he would openly offer to show his "damaged eye"), it seems more likely that he isn't Rum. (and let's not forget his "out-there-characteristics").

Here are the two possibilities:
- Wakita is someone with a grudge against Rum(BO) who might be working with an agency, or is simply connected to one of Rum's victims.
- Wakita is a BO member who underestimates Rum and sees himself as a rival

I think the second option seems highly likely at the moment because of another possible hint from Gosho. The hint to him being a BO member could be Gosho's actual reference in this case to The Darkest Nightmare drawn cover art. Gosho most likely used the horse in the movie cover to make a reference in this chapter, which will potentially connect itself to the BO(the star of movie 20). Gosho might be implying that Wakita, who represents the "Darkest Nightmare" horse (that races with "Pirate's Spirit"(Rum)), will be another BO character that might be up to something that can be referred to as "the darkest nightmare"(like the movie), and I think that this might be related to Gin's suspicion on Kogoro. Wakita could be working with Gin to investigate Kogoro and see if he is worth eliminating, which could potentially endanger the Mouri(similar to the spies in the movie). Going back to Wakita's comment to Kogoro, maybe it's Gosho's way of saying that the Boss chose Rum("Pirate's Spirit") over Wakita("Darkest Nightmare") as the second-in-command. In this case, maybe his code-name is a spirit that is from the "Dark spirit" category like "Brandy". Brandy is a distilled beverage that is classified as a hard liquor, which follows the pattern that all male members's have code-names that are hard liquors.

Remember that this is just speculation based on Gosho's implications, that are open for many interpretations.

I totally agree with your theory. Following your line of thought that Wakita and Rum are "horses racing with each other" or competing against one another (e.g. to be the second-in-command), I just noticed that the Nihonggo word for "horse" is "UMA".

UMA sounds close enough with "WOMAN" which is one of RUM's characteristics. So this might explain that Rum is "uma", not a woman, but a "horse". If and only if this would turn out to be right, it would mean that the horse (Conan is riding) on the movie cover is not Wakita, but RUM.

"RUM is such a weak HORSE, yet you bet on it too much." Might this statement of Wakita shed some light on the identity of Rum? Someone Mouri/Sleeping Kogoro (or even Conan) bet on/likes so much?? Reminds me of Yoko-chan who introduced Kir to Mouri. But that would mean another actress-woman member of BO. Haha

[MeiTanteixX]

I totally agree with your theory. Following your line of thought that Wakita and Rum are "horses racing with each other" or competing against one another (e.g. to be the second-in-command), I just noticed that the Nihonggo word for "horse" is "UMA".

UMA sounds close enough with "WOMAN" which is one of RUM's characteristics. So this might explain that Rum is "uma", not a woman, but a "horse". If and only if this would turn out to be right, it would mean that the horse (Conan is riding) on the movie cover is not Wakita, but RUM.

"RUM is such a weak HORSE, yet you bet on it too much." Might this statement of Wakita shed some light on the identity of Rum? Someone Mouri/Sleeping Kogoro (or even Conan) bet on/likes so much?? Reminds me of Yoko-chan who introduced Kir to Mouri. But that would mean another actress-woman member of BO. Haha

But Rum's characteristic wasn't straight up a woman, just an effeminate man.

to quote @Jimmy-kud0-tv2, regards to the horse(in the movie poster) origin:

The horse was a pun on the word "nightmare" and is a common pun used in video games

Wikipedia : A mare is an adult female horse or other equine. In most cases, a mare is a female horse over the age of three

"nightmare" is usually a black horse with red or blue flame where it should have a mane and a tail, also sometimes around its feet.

here are some references from pop culture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightmare ... 6_Dragons)
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/ ... -Nightmare

in other words, the horse from the poster is referring to something else, but the horses in this chapter on the other hand, could be seen as metaphors for Rum and possibly Wakita.

[Nemomon]

Spoiler:

Wakita Kanenori

I see two possibilites for Wakita's character...

There was so many similarites between his intro and Bourbon's, mainly because it's a restaurant setting involving a waitering detective. Beyond that however, I see one specific similarity, and that's the mention of alcoholic drinks. In Bourbon arc, it was mentioned that Amuro ordered Bourbon before, which was like Gosho's indication that this new character is Bourbon to us. Amuro also tried to deny that he is connected to spy-like behaviors, which again was Gosho's way of teasing us with the truth.

In the latest chapter with Wakita however, we get the indirect mention of Rum. The Red Thread noticed that the horse that won is called "Pirate's Spirit", which refers to a pirate's alcohol, which is Rum. The way Wakita said that Kogoro chose such a weak horse(Pirate's spirit=Rum) looks like an indication to me that Gosho is saying Wakita has some form of rivalry/antipathy with Rum, or sees Rum as someone beneath him. Along with the fact that someone with an artificial eye doesn't use an eye-patch, unless they are ashamed to show it(which in that case doesn't make sense that he would openly offer to show his "damaged eye"), it seems more likely that he isn't Rum. (and let's not forget his "out-there-characteristics").

Here are the two possibilities:
- Wakita is someone with a grudge against Rum(BO) who might be working with an agency, or is simply connected to one of Rum's victims.
- Wakita is a BO member who underestimates Rum and sees himself as a rival

I think the second option seems highly likely at the moment because of another possible hint from Gosho. The hint to him being a BO member could be Gosho's actual reference in this case to The Darkest Nightmare drawn cover art. Gosho most likely used the horse in the movie cover to make a reference in this chapter, which will potentially connect itself to the BO(the star of movie 20). Gosho might be implying that Wakita, who represents the "Darkest Nightmare" horse (that races with "Pirate's Spirit"(Rum)), will be another BO character that might be up to something that can be referred to as "the darkest nightmare"(like the movie), and I think that this might be related to Gin's suspicion on Kogoro. Wakita could be working with Gin to investigate Kogoro and see if he is worth eliminating, which could potentially endanger the Mouri(similar to the spies in the movie). Going back to Wakita's comment to Kogoro, maybe it's Gosho's way of saying that the Boss chose Rum("Pirate's Spirit") over Wakita("Darkest Nightmare") as the second-in-command. In this case, maybe his code-name is a spirit that is from the "Dark spirit" category like "Brandy". Brandy is a distilled beverage that is classified as a hard liquor, which follows the pattern that all male members's have code-names that are hard liquors.

Remember that this is just speculation based on Gosho's implications, that are open for many interpretations.

I totally agree with your theory. Following your line of thought that Wakita and Rum are "horses racing with each other" or competing against one another (e.g. to be the second-in-command), I just noticed that the Nihonggo word for "horse" is "UMA".

UMA sounds close enough with "WOMAN" which is one of RUM's characteristics. So this might explain that Rum is "uma", not a woman, but a "horse". If and only if this would turn out to be right, it would mean that the horse (Conan is riding) on the movie cover is not Wakita, but RUM.

"RUM is such a weak HORSE, yet you bet on it too much." Might this statement of Wakita shed some light on the identity of Rum? Someone Mouri/Sleeping Kogoro (or even Conan) bet on/likes so much?? Reminds me of Yoko-chan who introduced Kir to Mouri. But that would mean another actress-woman member of BO. Haha

That's a pretty interesting theory, but it has just a single hole - why would Wakita (if he is a BO member) make any BO remarks in front of people who should not know about the BO and Rum? Even more, if Wakita suspects Kogorou to know about the BO. Unless he wants to see how Kogorou will react, but he didn't. Even then, there is no way for Kogorou to know about Rum's existence especially if members of the BO itself don't know who Rum is.

[MeiTanteixX]

Spoiler:

Wakita Kanenori

I see two possibilites for Wakita's character...

There was so many similarites between his intro and Bourbon's, mainly because it's a restaurant setting involving a waitering detective. Beyond that however, I see one specific similarity, and that's the mention of alcoholic drinks. In Bourbon arc, it was mentioned that Amuro ordered Bourbon before, which was like Gosho's indication that this new character is Bourbon to us. Amuro also tried to deny that he is connected to spy-like behaviors, which again was Gosho's way of teasing us with the truth.

In the latest chapter with Wakita however, we get the indirect mention of Rum. The Red Thread noticed that the horse that won is called "Pirate's Spirit", which refers to a pirate's alcohol, which is Rum. The way Wakita said that Kogoro chose such a weak horse(Pirate's spirit=Rum) looks like an indication to me that Gosho is saying Wakita has some form of rivalry/antipathy with Rum, or sees Rum as someone beneath him. Along with the fact that someone with an artificial eye doesn't use an eye-patch, unless they are ashamed to show it(which in that case doesn't make sense that he would openly offer to show his "damaged eye"), it seems more likely that he isn't Rum. (and let's not forget his "out-there-characteristics").

Here are the two possibilities:
- Wakita is someone with a grudge against Rum(BO) who might be working with an agency, or is simply connected to one of Rum's victims.
- Wakita is a BO member who underestimates Rum and sees himself as a rival

I think the second option seems highly likely at the moment because of another possible hint from Gosho. The hint to him being a BO member could be Gosho's actual reference in this case to The Darkest Nightmare drawn cover art. Gosho most likely used the horse in the movie cover to make a reference in this chapter, which will potentially connect itself to the BO(the star of movie 20). Gosho might be implying that Wakita, who represents the "Darkest Nightmare" horse (that races with "Pirate's Spirit"(Rum)), will be another BO character that might be up to something that can be referred to as "the darkest nightmare"(like the movie), and I think that this might be related to Gin's suspicion on Kogoro. Wakita could be working with Gin to investigate Kogoro and see if he is worth eliminating, which could potentially endanger the Mouri(similar to the spies in the movie). Going back to Wakita's comment to Kogoro, maybe it's Gosho's way of saying that the Boss chose Rum("Pirate's Spirit") over Wakita("Darkest Nightmare") as the second-in-command. In this case, maybe his code-name is a spirit that is from the "Dark spirit" category like "Brandy". Brandy is a distilled beverage that is classified as a hard liquor, which follows the pattern that all male members's have code-names that are hard liquors.

Remember that this is just speculation based on Gosho's implications, that are open for many interpretations.

I totally agree with your theory. Following your line of thought that Wakita and Rum are "horses racing with each other" or competing against one another (e.g. to be the second-in-command), I just noticed that the Nihonggo word for "horse" is "UMA".

UMA sounds close enough with "WOMAN" which is one of RUM's characteristics. So this might explain that Rum is "uma", not a woman, but a "horse". If and only if this would turn out to be right, it would mean that the horse (Conan is riding) on the movie cover is not Wakita, but RUM.

"RUM is such a weak HORSE, yet you bet on it too much." Might this statement of Wakita shed some light on the identity of Rum? Someone Mouri/Sleeping Kogoro (or even Conan) bet on/likes so much?? Reminds me of Yoko-chan who introduced Kir to Mouri. But that would mean another actress-woman member of BO. Haha

That's a pretty interesting theory, but it has just a single hole - why would Wakita (if he is a BO member) make any BO remarks in front of people who should not know about the BO and Rum? Even more, if Wakita suspects Kogorou to know about the BO. Unless he wants to see how Kogorou will react, but he didn't. Even then, there is no way for Kogorou to know about Rum's existence especially if members of the BO itself don't know who Rum is.

I'm not claiming that Wakita is actually trying to hint out things himself....just like with Bourbon's introduction, I'm saying that it's Gosho who is giving off hints through the way he is writing Wakita's sentences and the way he is naming the horse to make it stand for Rum.

[Filipino_4869]

Spoiler:

No one's dead during this first file? That either means this case will be longer than usual, or won't be about a murder, but, rather, about this ticket.
More like a theft or blackmailing

Spoiler:

It'll probably revealed to be that—and it is what will lead to the deduction battle between Kanenori and Kogoro.

Spoiler:

And as usual Conan will interfere to save Kogoro and will lead to Kanenori vs Conan with Kanenori applauding and saying something related to the BO making Conan go in sort of a shock {Chapter Ends}

I am betting that this is how the case will really turn out. Conan might as well realize that "Pirate's Spirit" or the Pirates' Alcohol is RUM.

It's not only the chef. It's the case in general. Lottery tickets! And assumedly

Spoiler:

Mouri&co are using that woman's lottery ticket to eat that sushi

I wasn't expecteing much of anything from this chapter and I seriously doubt that chef is to be even considered Rum suspect but for a reaosn or other I feel like this case hit the total rock bottom. I know this is only the first chapter of the case and I'm working on incomplete information... Oh well... Let's just say that I would've welcommed even DB case.

In terms of plot, I always welcome DB cases more than Kogoro/Heiji cases. Akai/Subaru appeared in a DB case. Rum's traits are introduced in a DB case. Ai/Mary similarity is introduced in a DB case. The death of Haneda Kohji also in a DB case. Wasaka Rumi first appeared in a DB case. And God knows anything else will be from a DB case.

That is a very good observation! DB cases are one of Gosho's favorite avenues for giving out revelant info.

[dccd]

Spoiler:

Ok .. just saw the 976 pics and im kinda releaved.
After the diss against Rum in 975 " Pirates Spirit is such a weak horse ..." it was already kinda obvious that Wakita isnt Rum.

But in 976 he´s just so much in the focus... and atleast i would say this isnt Rums nature (rather than staying in the background).
Against this argument (Rum likes to stay in the background) it can be argued that he/she seems to be involved in the murder of Amanda Hughes.

But do we really know that Rum was present in the room 17 years ago?
All we know is that Rum messed up something. We still dont know anything in detail. It simply might´ve been a planning-mistake or sth else and
some operative member messed up due to Rums coordination.

Some other stupid thing:
One-eyed persons doesnt have stereoscopic vision (read on urself in google, pretty interesting). That means they cant get distances right and so on.
(Hi Rumi Wakasa slamming her head against the desk , but still nice try Gosho).
But they even it up with their life-experience.
So when Wakita said he dont use the knife because of his (one) eye -situation, we can pretty much assume his injury really is a new one.
Now u can argue that he just started playing his role as a cook and needed knife-skills are much higher than in usual life, but it still might be a hidden clue that he´s actually saying the truth about his eye.
Anyways.. he´s not Rum.

Another thing:
Gosho is pretty much dropping tons of references in this case.
One eye .. not using a knife ... due to new situation ... another character using a knife (even though having possibly one eye)? ...Baumkuchen... contains Rum most of the times... just kidding ... or maybe not?

[eros1607]

Spoiler:

Ok .. just saw the 976 pics and im kinda releaved.
After the diss against Rum in 975 " Pirates Spirit is such a weak horse ..." it was already kinda obvious that Wakita isnt Rum.

But in 976 he´s just so much in the focus... and atleast i would say this isnt Rums nature (rather than staying in the background).
Against this argument (Rum likes to stay in the background) it can be argued that he/she seems to be involved in the murder of Amanda Hughes.

But do we really know that Rum was present in the room 17 years ago?
All we know is that Rum messed up something. We still dont know anything in detail. It simply might´ve been a planning-mistake or sth else and
some operative member messed up due to Rums coordination.

Some other stupid thing:
One-eyed persons doesnt have stereoscopic vision (read on urself in google, pretty interesting). That means they cant get distances right and so on.
(Hi Rumi Wakasa slamming her head against the desk , but still nice try Gosho).
But they even it up with their life-experience.
So when Wakita said he dont use the knife because of his (one) eye -situation, we can pretty much assume his injury really is a new one.
Now u can argue that he just started playing his role as a cook and needed knife-skills are much higher than in usual life, but it still might be a hidden clue that he´s actually saying the truth about his eye.
Anyways.. he´s not Rum.

Another thing:
Gosho is pretty much dropping tons of references in this case.
One eye .. not using a knife ... due to new situation ... another character using a knife (even though having possibly one eye)? ...Baumkuchen... contains Rum most of the times... just kidding ... or maybe not?

Spoiler:

That makes me remember that Jodie usually says "Secrets make a woman woman", Subaru likes drinking Bourbon. And surprise!!!I think that this guy is not Rum but he may be related to Kuroda. Everybody says that after the accident, Kuroda looks like a different person.Maybe he is the real Kuroda.

[Filipino_4869]

Concerning the chef:

Spoiler:

1. The rat/mouse-chef reminds me of the movie Ratatoullie haha
2. His whisper to Mouri, "We've had it since autumn." Isn't it strange for a new employee like him, to know that they didn't had that food in their menu before, and that they just had it since autumn?

Concerning the case:

Spoiler:

1. Harashima Tsunetama, guy with a hoodie
- The only one shown to have entered the toilet
- Ordered COLA, which can wash off bloodstains (I don't think it's a coincidence).
- Has the MOST exposure of his right arm/cuff
- (Not obviously) shown TWICE to use his right hand in eating, ONCE when holding the cola glass
- The only suspect visible in the panel where the fat lady opened the door

2. Munechia Tameshige, old man
- Has the LEAST exposure (seems intentional)
- His arrival was not shown (seems intentional)
- The only one with DRY suit/clothes

3. Ashino Natsume, lady
- Has only one clear exposure of her right arm/cuff (when she closed the door)
- Had been hiding her right arm under the table, almost the whole time

[rfsuki]

Will we have any text spoilers of File 976 today?

[Tantei San]

Spoiler:

Besides we can't ignore the fact that he just came to the restaurant. Hence the story could be,
After GIN had suspicion on kogoro because even akai interfered, He called kanenori(aka- __) to spy on kogoro. So he first injured/killed an employee of the restaurant and them disguised or came in his place to serve and keep an eye on him. Besides the fact he knew about him that when he comes and he also lives next door, his likes and dislikes etc and also that there was a new dish since autumn suggests that he had done and intensive research on him, also giving us and idea that he might be rum or someone also in BO as others suggested.

[MeiTanteixX]

Spoiler:

Besides we can't ignore the fact that he just came to the restaurant. Hence the story could be,
After GIN had suspicion on kogoro because even akai interfered, He called kanenori(aka- __) to spy on kogoro. So he first injured/killed an employee of the restaurant and them disguised or came in his place to serve and keep an eye on him. Besides the fact he knew about him that when he comes and he also lives next door, his likes and dislikes etc and also that there was a new dish since autumn suggests that he had done and intensive research on him, also giving us and idea that he might be rum or someone also in BO as others suggested.

I can see this happening. For now, I agree with as well.