My theory is about to come trueDCUniverseAficionado wrote:Agreed.MoonRaven wrote:Coincidence
I wouldn't mind it, if it turned out to be the case... but right now, I just don't see it happening.
Spoiler:

My theory is about to come trueDCUniverseAficionado wrote:Agreed.MoonRaven wrote:Coincidence
I wouldn't mind it, if it turned out to be the case... but right now, I just don't see it happening.
Spoiler:
Plot twist: Kogoro hitting Conan on the head actually made Conan's memory badKor wrote: This whole flashback is a total farce. Instead of Conan working to figure out on his own about Sera's family, he just had to remember that he had met them before. But he already realized years ago that he met Sera in the past, so instead of the narrative relying on Conan's detective abilities, it relied on his abilities to... remember stuff...? The flashback was treated as some sort of resolution to a mystery, but the flashback was never a mystery. We knew there was such a meeting in the past. Congrats Conan for finally remembering thanks to all the subtle and also really not subtle hints Masumi dropped at you (intentionally or otherwise).
"Masumi STILL hasn't done anything yet." But what is she supposed to do?Kor wrote: Speaking of Masumi - I said it in the past but I'll say it again here. She's written like an original fanfic character and the entire conception of this character is filled with problems. From the get-go she knows much more than most of the other characters in the series. She knows who Conan is (plus she knows about the existence of other characters she's probably never met before). She's the sister of Akai Shuichi, who is an important player in the series. Oh, and she also met Shinichi in the past, which is probably the most tacked on element in the series. So let's sum it up - she's a female detective who suddenly appears in the series, she knows who Shinichi and Ran are (and met them in the past), she knows Conan's secret, she's Shuichi's sister, and she just might also be interested romantically in Shinichi. SURELY then this character must be very important, right? Wrong. Masumi STILL hasn't done anything yet. Early on she was used as an unconvincing Bourbon suspect, but after that she had nothing to do with the rest of the Bourbon stuff. For all the things this character knows, she hasn't really influenced the plot in any meaningful way. Sort of like an original character in a fanfiction - no matter how much nonsense the fanfic author may make this character do or how important they'd try to make this character seem, this character cannot affect the original work. (Just before someone jumps. No, I'm not saying Masumi is an actual fanfic character. I'm saying she's written like one).
Worst of all, it's been over half a decade already since this character first appeared, yet we still have no clue what is even the motivation of this character. She seems to want Conan to remember their past encounter, she seems to want Conan to know about Mary and help them in... whatever it is they might need help with, but she's never going to simply tell him that she knows his secret or how they met in the past*. No, she has to be all mysterious and stuff. Wait, did I say mysterious? My apologies, I meant to say vague. Just because characters might say vague stuff doesn't make them (or what they say) mysterious, it just... means they are being vague. Gosho, as a mystery writer, should be able to tell the difference between vagueness and mysteriousness. Does he understand that, though? Who knows. Masumi being vague hasn't made her an interesting character, it just made her a frustrating character.
*It honestly makes my skin crawl whenever I see people try to justify Masumi's behavior about this subject, or really try to justify any of this "characters don't talk with each other" nonsense. It's a gigantic flaw in Gosho's writing. I think it's pretty obvious why Masumi and other characters have been behaving this way - because Gosho wants/needs to pad out his series as much as possible. All the justifications for this people may try to come up with will not cover the inescapable problem that this entire "storyline" has been uninteresting, badly written, and filled with the most boring "mysteries" imaginable.
But Conan also did a blunter with giving Vermouth information, just because Vermouth asked with Ran's voice.Wakarimashita wrote:There's a difference between a well developed 'weakness' because of her attachment to Ran which humanises her character and having her mess up and call-out Ran 'Angel' which frankly makes her look foolish.Serinox wrote:She messed up killing Sherry because Ran and the whole angel stuff, it's one of her biggest and few weak points. It's more consistent than dumbing her down.Wakarimashita wrote:Vermouth, who had previously been established as a very careful and meticulous character, messing up badly when disguised as Azusa by calling Ran 'Angel'.Kudo Shinchi wrote:Could you elaborate on this? I'm not sure I see it.
Lol, I feel that recently, Gosho deliberately makes his characters make mistakes more and more, which is a clumsiness in his writing. Like in Bourbon case, Conan realize that Amuro is a spy because he reacted to someone calling "zero". In Soul detective case, Sera slipped and called Mary "Mama". Conan "revealed" himself to Akai also due to his mistake. Now, Ran realized that Azusa/Vermouth is a kidnapper because she accidentally calling "Angel". That is repetitive and boring. This is detective fiction where characters should use their skills, not rely on enemy's mistakes. We prefer enemies without mistakes, that makes them more threatening.Kleene Onigiri wrote:
But Conan also did a blunter with giving Vermouth information, just because Vermouth asked with Ran's voice.
Conan does actually a lot of mistakes when it's about Ran or solving a case. Like the red t-shirt case or when he lost his bowtie and mary solved the case and other stuff. Lucky for him, nothing bad happened yet. (And Heiji will never learn to not call him Kudo either XD).
So Vermouth doing a mistake wasn't so strange. What made her act strange was her happiness to see Ran and Conan, as if she was on a school-trip. She seems way more carefree now since Shiho is labeled dead to the BO.
So Gin not seeing through Shuichi's fake death isn't a mistake, on his part? And what about him not seeing through Hidemi? Red Shirts (File 700–File 704/Episode 578–Episode 581) was the third time he considered killing her (First time, when Ethan died; second, when the BO retrieved her from the FBI). At that point, shouldn't he (and Anokata/The BO Boss, for that matter) be thinking—with the whole, "first time is random, second time is coincidence, third time is a pattern" thing that Chek mentioned—that she may be more trouble than she's worth? Isn't that reason for you (with how one mistake on Vermouth's part (and it's not going to be a mistake, really, until Ran's realization goes somewhere) makes you not take her seriously, anymore) to not take Gin seriously, anymore?eros1607 wrote:This is detective fiction where characters should use their skills, not rely on enemy's mistakes. We prefer enemies without mistakes, that makes them more threatening.
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:Some thoughts on the case.
Spoiler:
If Yusaku didn't figure it out from the watches, then this is probably what he took notice of.Viper wrote:I'd say the first suspect is most likely... because he is the only one who bought a shirt that hides his torso (woman's shirt is see-through)... a seatbelt would leave a very distinctive bruise during the crash, one that needs to be hidden.
Viper wrote:I'd say the first suspect is most likely, not only because his story of a girlfriend vanishing is fishy, but also because he is the only one who bought a shirt that hides his torso (woman's shirt is see-through). If the driver died cause he wasn't using a seatbelt, then it's safe to assume the passenger lived cause they were buckled up. But a seatbelt would leave a very distinctive bruise during the crash, one that needs to be hidden.
Or by checking to see whether he has a girlfriend—and one who got angry at him just before this and left in her car.PirateKing wrote:Viper wrote:I'd say the first suspect is most likely, not only because his story of a girlfriend vanishing is fishy, but also because he is the only one who bought a shirt that hides his torso (woman's shirt is see-through). If the driver died cause he wasn't using a seatbelt, then it's safe to assume the passenger lived cause they were buckled up. But a seatbelt would leave a very distinctive bruise during the crash, one that needs to be hidden.Spoiler:
Maybe I'm a bit vague with my writing but what I want to express is that recently, a lot of mistakes happened in very short time (from Yusaku Cold Case) , unlike in the past (like in Vermouth or Kir arc) where mistakes were random and there were other way to find information. All the mistakes I mentioned is from late Bourbon or Rum arc, which also means a lot of information is from mistakes of enemy. God, that spoils my mood too much. This is supposed to be a detective fiction right. I don't said I demand no mistakes from enemy but too much in short time make me seriously consider Gosho's writing. There should be another way to find information and there should be moments make me feel "Wow, what a deduction". Recently, the only one made me have that feel is Jodie who found the truth about Akai when driving (let alone she realized Subaru is Akai also by Akai's mistake though). Even Bourbon had to realize the Akai's fake death plan (but he deliberately created it so that's somehow different) through Camel divulging Rukuda committed a suicide. I will appreciate more if mistakes happened at few as possible and I don't mind someone important die because that may be interesting to have "Games of Thrones" feeling in DC. You don't know who will die, that will make everything more unpredictable. A mistakes should only happen at critical times when one cannot control the whole situation, not on normal random events where deduction can lead you. Again, this is a detective fiction right?DCUniverseAficionado wrote:So Gin not seeing through Shuichi's fake death isn't a mistake, on his part? And what about him not seeing through Hidemi? Red Shirts (File 700–File 704/Episode 578–Episode 581) was the third time he considered killing her (First time, when Ethan died; second, when the BO retrieved her from the FBI). At that point, shouldn't he (and Anokata/The BO Boss, for that matter) be thinking—with the whole, "first time is random, second time is coincidence, third time is a pattern" thing that Chek mentioned—that she may be more trouble than she's worth? Isn't that reason for you (with how one mistake on Vermouth's part (and it's not going to be a mistake, really, until Ran's realization goes somewhere) makes you not take her seriously, anymore) to not take Gin seriously, anymore?eros1607 wrote:This is detective fiction where characters should use their skills, not rely on enemy's mistakes. We prefer enemies without mistakes, that makes them more threatening.
Wait... back in Contact with the Black Organization (File 380–File 383/Episode 309–Episode 311), Gin bothered to look inside the lockers to see if the person who'd set Vodka up (Shinichi/Conan) was hiding in one of them, but didn't consider that an adult with dwarfism (think Peter Dinklage) could be the one who'd set Vodka up? Isn't that a mistake that should make you not take Gin seriously?
If the bad guys never made mistakes, they'd never lose—Jodie would be dead, the Akais would be dead, Hidemi would be dead, Rei/Tooru would be dead, Shiho/Ai would be dead, Shinichi/Conan would be dead, etc. And if the good guys, also never made mistakes, things would be a true stalemate. Someone's gotta mess up.
And isn't it a skill to capitalize on/take advantage of your enemies' mistakes?
I'd say, at the end of the day, her revealing her boss' mail address to Shinichi/Conan was a far bigger mistake than her calling Ran "angel." To consider the latter mistake to be so big (as you evidently do) is to assume that, because you think Gosho's been messing up, as of late, that he's going to continue messing up until DC concludes. I say wait until all the chips are down and everything's clear. After that, if you say things like, "this wasn't worth it," or "Gosho hasn't had it since 2007 (or 2003, 2004, 2005 or 2006, take your pick)," then that'll just be one of the "sad but true" things/hard truths for you and all the other fans who say things like that, once DC ends.
How about this—if, in that case (File 954–File 957), Ran has to realize that the Azusa who came with Rei/Tooru is Vermouth, the woman who she saved Shiho/Ai from, and you got to decide how Ran would find out, how would you have her find out?
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:Some thoughts on the case.
Spoiler:Spoiler:
Mistakes are a big part of the genre and something that make it more interesting than perfect villains... If Gosho saw it better to let Rum make a mistake and he's ready to go through (as in has confidence and knows what he's doing) it then I don't see it as a flaw. This guy has been writing in the genre for over 20 years anyway.eros1607 wrote:
Maybe I'm a bit vague with my writing but what I want to express is that recently, a lot of mistakes happened in very short time (from Yusaku Cold Case) , unlike in the past (like in Vermouth or Kir arc) where mistakes were random and there were other way to find information. All the mistakes I mentioned is from late Bourbon or Rum arc, which also means a lot of information is from mistakes of enemy. God, that spoils my mood too much. This is supposed to be a detective fiction right. I don't said I demand no mistakes from enemy but too much in short time make me seriously consider Gosho's writing. There should be another way to find information and there should be moments make me feel "Wow, what a deduction". Recently, the only one make me have that feel is Jodie who find the truth about Akai when driving (let alone she realized Subaru is Akai also by Akai's mistake though). Even Bourbon had to realize the Akai's fake death plan (but he deliberately created it so that's somehow different) through Camel divulging Rukuda committed a suicide. And I will appreciate more if mistakes happened at few as possible and I don't mind someone important die because that may be interesting to have "Games of Thrones" feeling in DC. You don't know who will die, that will make everything more unpredictable.
Yeah, but to simply include mistakes and to include them in interesting ways are different. Mistake good if it happen with convincing reasons, not seemed forced and only for plot advancement. For example, the reaction of Rei to "zero" seemed somehow not reasonable enough. If the one who witnessed was not Conan, but Gin, everything will be different. Rei should be the one who know this more than anyone. Or "zero" has even a deeper meaning meaning to him, we don't know.k11chi wrote:Mistakes are a big part of the genre and something that make it more interesting than perfect villains... If Gosho saw it better to let Rum make a mistake and he's ready to go through (as in has confidence and knows what he's doing) it then I don't see it as a flaw. This guy has been writing in the genre for over 20 years anyway.eros1607 wrote:
Maybe I'm a bit vague with my writing but what I want to express is that recently, a lot of mistakes happened in very short time (from Yusaku Cold Case) , unlike in the past (like in Vermouth or Kir arc) where mistakes were random and there were other way to find information. All the mistakes I mentioned is from late Bourbon or Rum arc, which also means a lot of information is from mistakes of enemy. God, that spoils my mood too much. This is supposed to be a detective fiction right. I don't said I demand no mistakes from enemy but too much in short time make me seriously consider Gosho's writing. There should be another way to find information and there should be moments make me feel "Wow, what a deduction". Recently, the only one make me have that feel is Jodie who find the truth about Akai when driving (let alone she realized Subaru is Akai also by Akai's mistake though). Even Bourbon had to realize the Akai's fake death plan (but he deliberately created it so that's somehow different) through Camel divulging Rukuda committed a suicide. And I will appreciate more if mistakes happened at few as possible and I don't mind someone important die because that may be interesting to have "Games of Thrones" feeling in DC. You don't know who will die, that will make everything more unpredictable.
Yeah but that's subjective. Conan has never been one to present things in an action packed way. And yes because it was a child shouting zero that made him react that it seems ridicilous, but on the other hand it also has another meaning to it exactly because of that. And I don't think there is any deep meaning to it but instead there are multiple (nickname from childhood&nickname from being part of the secret police).eros1607 wrote:Yeah, but to simply include mistakes and to include them in interesting ways are different. Mistake good if it happen with convincing reasons, not seemed forced and only for plot advancement. For example, the reaction of Rei to "zero" seemed somehow not reasonable enough. If the one who witnessed was not Conan, but Gin, everything will be different. Rei should be the one who know this more than anyone. Or "zero" has even a deeper meaning meaning to him, we don't know.k11chi wrote:Mistakes are a big part of the genre and something that make it more interesting than perfect villains... If Gosho saw it better to let Rum make a mistake and he's ready to go through (as in has confidence and knows what he's doing) it then I don't see it as a flaw. This guy has been writing in the genre for over 20 years anyway.eros1607 wrote:
Maybe I'm a bit vague with my writing but what I want to express is that recently, a lot of mistakes happened in very short time (from Yusaku Cold Case) , unlike in the past (like in Vermouth or Kir arc) where mistakes were random and there were other way to find information. All the mistakes I mentioned is from late Bourbon or Rum arc, which also means a lot of information is from mistakes of enemy. God, that spoils my mood too much. This is supposed to be a detective fiction right. I don't said I demand no mistakes from enemy but too much in short time make me seriously consider Gosho's writing. There should be another way to find information and there should be moments make me feel "Wow, what a deduction". Recently, the only one make me have that feel is Jodie who find the truth about Akai when driving (let alone she realized Subaru is Akai also by Akai's mistake though). Even Bourbon had to realize the Akai's fake death plan (but he deliberately created it so that's somehow different) through Camel divulging Rukuda committed a suicide. And I will appreciate more if mistakes happened at few as possible and I don't mind someone important die because that may be interesting to have "Games of Thrones" feeling in DC. You don't know who will die, that will make everything more unpredictable.