Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,061-1066

[Mohamed Ebrahem]

if you look closely you'll find that Amuro recives that 2 messages in two different phones. The first one received on a smartphone that has the club logo replacing the apple logo, while the second phone where he received the other's Rum message doesnt have any logo. So Amuro has 2 different phones. The first with the back logo is the BO phones, while the other is his Police phone

Good note andi2ews , but I don't understand what you want to say ? You say that Amuro received two messages from RUM on both phones , so what ?

[andi2ews]

if you look closely you'll find that Amuro recives that 2 messages in two different phones. The first one received on a smartphone that has the club logo replacing the apple logo, while the second phone where he received the other's Rum message doesnt have any logo. So Amuro has 2 different phones. The first with the back logo is the BO phones, while the other is his Police phone

Good note andi2ews , but I don't understand what you want to say ? You say that Amuro received two messages from RUM on both phones , so what ?

FILE 1008:

Spoiler:

FILE 1011:

Spoiler:

FILE 1012:

Spoiler:

Conclusions:

•Amuro has 2 phones and received a message about each of them from RUM
•In File 1008 Amuro received a message by the real RUM
•Amuro's phone in file 1008 is BO phones
•In file 1011 Amuro received a message, but the sender is not RUM cause there is no point in RUM contacts amuro on two different phones
•Sender of the second message could linked to Shuichi Akai cause he say to Bourbon the he was aware about his intentios. He also say that he is aware that Bourbon received an order from someone to investigate on Kudo Shinichi. How can Shuichi know this?

[Mohamed Ebrahem]

Conclusions:

•Amuro has 2 phones and received a message about each of them from RUM
•In File 1008 Amuro received a message by the real RUM
•Amuro's phone in file 1008 is BO phones
•In file 1011 Amuro received a message, but the sender is not RUM cause there is no point in RUM contacts amuro on two different phones
•Sender of the second message could linked to Shuichi Akai cause he say to Bourbon the he was aware about his intentios. He also say that he is aware that Bourbon received an order from someone to investigate on Kudo Shinichi. How can Shuichi know this?

I think Rum's assistant , who is Wakita who sent that second message ,,, Conan was watching Bourbon throughout the case and noticed that Bourbon wanted to copy the key of Kudo Shinchi house which is with Ran Morey , so Conan made sure that Bourbon received orders to investigate Kudo Shinchi , So Bourbon might break in tonight or anytime soon .

[andi2ews]

Conclusions:

•Amuro has 2 phones and received a message about each of them from RUM
•In File 1008 Amuro received a message by the real RUM
•Amuro's phone in file 1008 is BO phones
•In file 1011 Amuro received a message, but the sender is not RUM cause there is no point in RUM contacts amuro on two different phones
•Sender of the second message could linked to Shuichi Akai cause he say to Bourbon the he was aware about his intentios. He also say that he is aware that Bourbon received an order from someone to investigate on Kudo Shinichi. How can Shuichi know this?

I think Rum's assistant , who is Wakita who sent that second message ,,, Conan was watching Bourbon throughout the case and noticed that Bourbon wanted to copy the key of Kudo Shinchi house which is with Ran Morey , so Conan made sure that Bourbon received orders to investigate Kudo Shinchi , So Bourbon might break in tonight or anytime soon .

It makes no sense. Why RUM should have his assistant send a text message to Amuro. Also, Amuro received that message on his Police Phone and not his BO phone, so Amuro must have noticed that he got a message from RUM on the wrong phone, but he didnt say anything about this, like this is totally normal. I Suppose that who sent that message to Amuro canno't be connected with the BO, and he is trying to emulate RUM's message style.

Finally there is no prove that Wakita is only a subordinate of RUM. He is definetely RUM and 1066's title suggest this. There is no point at this point of the story to fake a RUM identity for no purpose because it's only a reader trick and not a main character trick, cause Conan doesnt know what we know.

[Mohamed Ebrahem]

Finally there is no prove that Wakita is only a subordinate of RUM. He is definetely RUM and 1066's title suggest this. There is no point at this point of the story to fake a RUM identity for no purpose because it's only a reader trick and not a main character trick, cause Conan doesnt know what we know.

Korn went on a mission with Wakita to find out if there was a trap set for Gin ,, Korn was watching from outside while Wakita was inside in form of the old man ,,, Korn received a message from RUM , which is a picture of Akai and Camel and order to shoot them . So all I conclude is Wakita told RUM that FBI had created a trap for BO members , so Rum immediately sent a message to Korn and ordered him to shoot Akai and Camel .

If you ask Korn , who is Rum and what is Rum gender , Korn will answer : " I don’t know " . even though they went on that mission together two years ago .
If you ask Chianti as well, she won't answer ... If you ask vodka , he won't answer either , as we saw in their dialogue in Chapter 1065 .

I also wrote previously that in chapters of Wakita's appearance , there are hints about Karasuma case that occurred in Episode 219 , especially the playing cards , which through it Conan was able to solve the mystery of Karasuma Palace at the end of that Episode 219 .

Gosho gave us a clear example of the prosthetic eye , which is eye of Wakasa Rumi , an eye that is completely looks like natural but it's fake , so I don't think it's over in the manga about Rum's identity .

Wakita isn't rich because he is RUM ... Wakita is rich because he is from Suzuki family , but because of Wakita's skills in disguise, stealth and catching spies . RUM appointed him as his closest assistant .

Time of RUM's talk with members of BO on the island in Chapter 1066 was at dawn , while the scene of Wakita in the car in the morning while he is going to work at a sushi restaurant . Even drivers in Wakita's car didn't tell him we have arrived Mr RUM or Sir , but they told him we have arrived without any titles . I guess Rum doesn't have enough patience to work in a restaurant to observe one or two people .

Another note : Wakita Kanenori's task in the restaurant is very soon, he disguises himself in the car just before entering the restaurant and removes the disguise after leaving the restaurant as well ,, Gin's words to Vodka that Rum changed his face and took a silly name , indicates that Rum changed his face for a long time , I don't think Gin met Wakita in the restaurant and saw his disguised face , so I want to say that when Wakita is with Bo members , he has his real face and his real name or his code name in the organization ... so Gin's description about RUM does not correspond at all with Wakita .

From previous words , it is easy to conclude that Wakita is an assistant of Rum / Karasuma / Chikara Katsumata . but let's wait and see


As for cover of Chapter 1066 , entitled RUM :
Gosho illustrated Karasuma's new identity through Akai and Okiya Subaru .

1- Akai looks with his right eye , this is a hint that Karasuma / Chikara can see only with his right eye , While Okiya Subaru is the fake identity of Akai ,,, Okiya in the cover opens his left eye so this is a hint that the fake eye of Karasuma / Chikara is the left one .

2- Karasuma / Chikara is like Conan and Akai ,,, people who are not supposed to be in this world , they live with a new identity , new name , new face and wear glasses .

3- I think Camel is also on the same team , Yukiko shaved Camel's hair in this chapter ,,, hint that Karasuma shaved his long back hair in his new look Chikara Katsumata to make it look good .

Spoiler:

[saorin]

I read all your comments about the differences between RUM's car and Wakita's car. According to me they are equal and also the driver is the same so i think it's impossibile that RUM and Wakita are different person. Also file 1066 title is RUM, so why would Gosho trap us for no reason.
given the developments the only way for RUM = Chikara is Chikara = Wakita.
That's possibile and i hope for this.
In fact we know thanks to Vodka that RUM changed his face, but change the own face is different from disguising. So i think that the old man without the eye is RUM true appearance while Wakita is a disguise for his mission undercover while Chikara could be his real identity


Wakita Kanenori is 100% a fake name, so Wakita is not the real RUM identity. Wakita is at best an alter ego of RUM

I am basically with this. I think there is no way around Wakita being Rum. The cars and drivers are they same, it is the same person talking to Gin and then disguising as Wakita.

Maybe this is also the end of it. But as I rather like the Chikara = Rum theory, I am still (cautiously) keeping that in the back of my head. It wouldn't be the first time we had a multi-layered disguise revealed or, rather, severeal disguises worn by the same person. It is indeed a recurring theme, so that'd fit.
The connection to Kouji is there and strong (Shogi). "Time is money"- time is and has been shown to be important in Shogi Matches. Chikara had to wait for Shukichi when he left in Ch. 899 in order to save Yumi to resume the match. (But to be fair, Chikara didn't seem very irritated about that.) Chikara currently holds the "Osho" title, which mirros the King piece in Shogi. Before that, he lost the "Meijin" title to Shukichi, Kouji's step-brother, which is "the most prestigious title along with Ryuo" (according to Wikipedia). (Make of that what you will.)
And their body/face characteristics would also fit together (things like the earlobe, which has been a thing before, his rather broad throat/neck area, general shape of the eyes, his long eyebrows, nose from the front, or the lines around mouth and chin):



(Sorry, it is a rather crude compilation, but I had neither time nor means to do better right now. XD)

I think we don't have anything to compare their heights, as Chikara mostly appears sitting (while playing shougi) oder not standing next to people/things we could compare to his height.
The (partly) different face shape DCUniverseAficionado mentioned (which I agree on) doesn't necessarily debunk this for me. We have had way more ridiculous face-altering disguises than a "slightly rounder face". Though I have to admit that Rum's Wakita disguise is rather crude and in the warehouse, he just "disguised" himself with a baseball cap it seems, so we don't know how different he can actually make himself look. Chikara having a daughter is not strong enough as a stand-alone argument for me to rule this theory out either.

So, would it be working? I'd like to believe so. Is it such a striking similarity that I am positive about this? No. There are traits that seem almost identical, but the dissimilarities would also require some more elaborate disguise than Rum applied becoming Wakita to make this work. (Most notably the length of the nose and the wrinkles around the eyes. Although I noted, Chikara's nose shape from the side differs between panels.)

In the end, although I would like how it fits together (and how this would also mean we'd have a bit of a flashier reveal later on), I am not really invested in this theory. So if it turns out it just ends here with Rum = Wakita, I am also fine with this. I am not set on defending this theory.

The only thing truly bothering me is the reveal that the 3 opposing physical traits are supposed to be just unbased rumours. What's the point? Was it just so all three suspects (Rumi, Wakita, Kuroda) were viable Rum candidates? Why drop any hints besides the fake eye then in the first place? All three would have qualified just as well with the fake eye trait as hint... This just reeks of retconning and/or pointless misleading the reader and it's the only thing I really abhor in story telling.

[jimmy_kud0_tv2]

I'm not sure that I buy the Chikara thing at all.

The Wakita disguise is not born out of the same "perfect disguise" techniques that we are used to from the past. He hasn't really changed his facial structure. All he has done is add accessories to it (Wig, eye patch, mustache, and tooth). I find it rather unlikely that someone who would think that this is an acceptable disguise, especially when approaching what he thinks is an enemy (Kogoro), would have a second disguise that covered up his crows feet, made his cheek bones more rounded, and make his jaw seem slightly more rounded when approaching someone who has made no big moves against him plot wise (Shuukichi). Kogoro, from the BO's perspective, has looked into the Kohji case where as Shuukichi is merely an (adopted) member of that family and has no real connection to that case other than being a shogi pro. If the BO had a plan to kill all of the Haneda family members, it would be a lot easier to do that play shogi against him.

Otherwise we don't even really know if the BO suspects that Shuuichi Akai has a brother, or if BO members outside Bourbon and Vermouth know that Masumi is his sister.

[DCUniverseAficionado]

I'm not sure that I buy the Chikara thing at all.

The Wakita disguise is not born out of the same "perfect disguise" techniques that we are used to from the past. He hasn't really changed his facial structure. All he has done is add accessories to it (Wig, eye patch, mustache, and tooth). I find it rather unlikely that someone who would think that this is an acceptable disguise, especially when approaching what he thinks is an enemy (Kogoro), would have a second disguise that covered up his crows feet, made his cheek bones more rounded, and make his jaw seem slightly more rounded when approaching someone who has made no big moves against him plot wise (Shuukichi). Kogoro, from the BO's perspective, has looked into the Kohji case where as Shuukichi is merely an (adopted) member of that family and has no real connection to that case other than being a shogi pro. If the BO had a plan to kill all of the Haneda family members, it would be a lot easier to do that play shogi against him.

Otherwise we don't even really know if the BO suspects that Shuuichi Akai has a brother, or if BO members outside Bourbon and Vermouth know that Masumi is his sister.

And do you not buy the Muga Iori = Rum theory, as well?

And if Gosho's playing this straight, and Rum's true, undisguised face is the old man from CoRaB, why has Rum gone to such lengths to hide his identity? Why did he show up at that meeting 2 years ago with no disguise, showing off his true face?

As for the Shūkichi part, the fact that the Haneda family is still active and alive 17 years after Kōji's death (requesting Momiji's help in 1,039–1,042) likely means that eliminating Kōji's relatives is not placed highly on Rum's priority list. Plus, we don't know what Rum's public occupation was at the time of the Kōji case, and what it is, currently (assuming he ever had one to begin with). There'd be no need to join the shogi field in order to keep an eye on any potential info leaks (and any Haneda who may appear) if he was already in the shogi field when the Kōji case happened.
Kōji, Amanda and Amanda's bodyguard Asaka are parties confirmed to be at the place where the crime happened. It also seems likely that Rumi and Hyōe were involved. But as to who else was there, we can't be sure—in other words, Chikara Katsumata could've also been at that chess tournament at Juke Hotel. If Rum directly took part in the murder, and didn't just plan it and leave the deed to another, he would also have to be there. And in terms of characters (characters introduced in the Rum arc) most likely to be at Juke Hotel for that tournament 17 years ago, the veteran shogi player good enough to match Kōji's heir (Shūkichi) seems about right.

[Kor]

And do you not buy the Muga Iori = Rum theory, as well?

I'm honestly curious. Do you buy it, or are you merely humoring the possibility?

[DCUniverseAficionado]

And do you not buy the Muga Iori = Rum theory, as well?

I'm honestly curious. Do you buy it, or are you merely humoring the possibility?

With the info we have now, I buy neither that Rum's just an old man with fake buckteeth nor that Momiji's butler is Rum... but these are the likeliest possibilities at this point. So I'm humoring both possibilities until more info comes out.

I suppose, taking my own biases into consideration, I'd find it a bit more interesting if there was a 4th suspect (in other words, I'd prefer it if there was more to the answer to the question of the identity of the titular BO member of this arc). So what about you? Would you rather Goshō play it straight and have Rum be no more than the old man from CoRaB, or would you rather Rum turn out to be Momiji's butler?

[VDechand]

I have a little question. How long is the break to the next chapter?

[DCUniverseAficionado]

I have a little question. How long is the break to the next chapter?

We can expect the first spoiler pics/text for File 1,067 to come out around January 22nd. The full file (in Japanese) should release during the week of January 25th to January 29th. The full file will then be translated from Japanese to English, and then be released—the release of the translated file will likely occur within about 10 days of the full file release. So in this case, you'll likely be able to read the fully translated 1,067 during the first week of February.

[saorin]

I'm not sure that I buy the Chikara thing at all.

The Wakita disguise is not born out of the same "perfect disguise" techniques that we are used to from the past. He hasn't really changed his facial structure. All he has done is add accessories to it (Wig, eye patch, mustache, and tooth). I find it rather unlikely that someone who would think that this is an acceptable disguise, especially when approaching what he thinks is an enemy (Kogoro), would have a second disguise that covered up his crows feet, made his cheek bones more rounded, and make his jaw seem slightly more rounded when approaching someone who has made no big moves against him plot wise (Shuukichi). Kogoro, from the BO's perspective, has looked into the Kohji case where as Shuukichi is merely an (adopted) member of that family and has no real connection to that case other than being a shogi pro. If the BO had a plan to kill all of the Haneda family members, it would be a lot easier to do that play shogi against him.

Otherwise we don't even really know if the BO suspects that Shuuichi Akai has a brother, or if BO members outside Bourbon and Vermouth know that Masumi is his sister.

Yeah, I tried to account for that in my post and do think this is a legit position. I consider it a possbility, but not really likely at this point.
But I also think it is strange that his disguise as Wakita is so crude...

[VDechand]

I have a little question. How long is the break to the next chapter?

We can expect the first spoiler pics/text for File 1,067 to come out around January 22nd. The full file (in Japanese) should release during the week of January 25th to January 29th. The full file will then be translated from Japanese to English, and then be released—the release of the translated file will likely occur within about 10 days of the full file release. So in this case, you'll likely be able to read the fully translated 1,067 during the first week of February.

thanks

[Reader]

About people getting upset over gosho confirming that all three descriptions were nothing but lies.
From the start, it was made clear in the story that the descriptions could be rumors. Still, many started fitting them into one personality.
These speculation makes sense because the author wants us to think that way. But that is what misdirection in mystery writing is all about.
It started with the description being rumors and ended with vodka confirming they were lies/rumors.
Not many considered that all the descriptions could be lies (myself included), but instead were set on to prove how each suspect (whether one of the three or anyone else) could fit into it. That included black tea, funny accent, playing shogi, bending knees, white eyebrows etc etc.
So in that respect, Gosho has managed to misdirect us succesfully and that only goes to show how good a mystery writer he is.