Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,061-1066

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
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blackmoon

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,061-106X

Post by blackmoon »

Well... i think Gin ordered the heart shot instead of head shot so that the bullet wouldn't ruin his face so they could take a good look of him, (if it were a headshot, which Kir was hoping to do, that could potentially ruin his facial feature). Now would Camel be able to survive+escape without getting his face revealed? More like would Conan and Subaru's plans be able to deceive RUM? ;D Sounds like a battle of wits between the two quick witted! Personally, I'm not worried about Camel cuz if he's caught with his face intact then Kir, Bourbon, Akai would all have to go down... and if any significant information about RUM was revealed before the new movie is released it would really spoil the anticipation, so... no. ;)
"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)
Spoiler:
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Kor
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,061-106X

Post by Kor »

Spoiler pics: https://imgur.com/a/Q3mf7ba

Eh... for prosperity sake, I'll put the following in a spoiler box lol
Spoiler:
I'm pleasantly surprised Gosho made this reveal in this case cause I thought he'll drag this out a bit more. That's the only thing I'm surprised about, though 8-)

Wakita being Rum was always the most likely possibility. The "time is money" bit and the lack of meeting Haibara were the prime giveaways.

And lol looks like I was right on the money to bring back the theory of the old man from the warehouse. Imma pat myself on the back for that one *parrot*
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alphajjc

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,061-106X

Post by alphajjc »

Kor wrote:
December 4th, 2020, 5:41 am
Spoiler pics: https://imgur.com/a/Q3mf7ba

Eh... for prosperity sake, I'll put the following in a spoiler box lol
Spoiler:
I'm pleasantly surprised Gosho made this reveal in this case cause I thought he'll drag this out a bit more. That's the only thing I'm surprised about, though 8-)

Wakita being Rum was always the most likely possibility. The "time is money" bit and the lack of meeting Haibara were the prime giveaways.

And lol looks like I was right on the money to bring back the theory of the old man from the warehouse. Imma pat myself on the back for that one *parrot*
Spot on about the old man but it’s no guarantee yet it’s Wakita. That could be a trick by Gosho. That looks like a Brolic old man though lol
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,061-106X

Post by alphajjc »

Anyway im probably in denial still lol. Just didn't expect this outcome.Do you guys think Wakita/Rum is also the old boss Karasuma if we expect their to be a new boss now. Its just funny to me that both have those descriptions of being extremely impatient.I get being the second in command/closest to the boss/closest advisor and all that, but the descriptions make them seem like the same exact person.

Kor you really were right on the money about the old man in the warehouse. Its crazy how soon after you said it that this happened. Sometimes i think you guys are secret whistleblowers that work with Gosho on the manga and get the spoilers first lol..now i'm really looking at that recent theory about the Okinawa mayor/governor being the current BO boss
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,061-106X

Post by jimmy_kud0_tv2 »

Spoiler:
not gonna lie, i'm a bit angry. not really about it being Wakita, but it being revealed here and how. The three descriptions were a lie so we kind of wasted a lot of time on literally nothing. We even had cases that framed around contradictory things actually being the same thing when looked at in different ways. Where was that all supposed to go? Since Rum was wearing a disguise anyway, why not just have Rum's real face just match those descriptions some how? I'm not sure whether I'm more upset about this or the Boss reveal though. Still a bit salty about that one.

Why reveal Rum only to the audience here? What does that do? The only thing I can see is the possible awkward comedy / audience fear that can result from us knowing that Rum is dangerously close to Conan and him not really knowing about it. Conan suspects him, sure, but what does Conan really know about anything in this whole "arc"? A lot of things that we know about Rum, Kohji, Rumi, Mary, and Tsutomu have all been shown through flashbacks that are only known to a small number of people. No one has said anything to Conan at all, and he really doesn't have a way to figure out much of that information on his own.

Bourbon was noticeably absent in this story after having that Tea with Akai and Yusaku forever ago. Did he have some secret Spy mission to uncover more info? If not, it feels really weird for him to not at lease be present somewhere in this story, regardless of what side he is shown on.
I hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,061-106X

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

First of all, here are all the details so far, courtesy of Mera, Emmy NY and Kemo:
Spoiler:
***6 WEEKS BREAK CONFIRMED***


- “camel fell into the ocean”
- “and then gin wanted to get the grenade, akai shot it after gin threw the grenade, kirs hat was shot and fell off her head”
- “camel not hurt”
- “(camel) got hurt was fake, there was a blood pack on his chest)
- "Yukiko shaved Camel's hair"
- it’s a buzzcut
- “mentioned the hat, the hat prob saved his life”
- “conan and akai went straight to home after the job is done”
- and before that was “camel told conan what he heard” (from chianti and vodka’s convo)
- “FBI laughing , camel blushing”
- “camel has thick paper stick to his back, super thick like two dictionaries”
- “the final result of this battle: black side leaked important information about rum, red side gave camel a new haircut”
- korn flashback: camel and young akai photos
- “the photo in korns flashback was given to him by rum two years ago,
- rum is wakita, it’s confirmed, gin got a call from rum, and it was wakita who called”
- wakitas left eye is white
- wakitas ride with two men in black with sunglasses
- “they look like foreigners”


- The Cover is Conan behind Subaru in Akai's Persona
- Camel falls into the ocean in front of the Organization
- Gin tries to use a grenade for a detonation within water
- Akai shoots and hits the grenade directly after Gin throws it
- Akai fires a warning shot between Gin's legs
- Akai hits Kir's hat and it falls off
- All the BO agents duck/crouch
- The fire department's boats get to the scene and put out the fire
- The Organization takes their loss back on boat
- We see Wakita put on fake hair (originally bald), fake teeth and mustache while accompanied by a body guard and driver.
- Wakita is extremely rich and his car is a Rolls Royce
- All his orders so far have been in the car while he was heading to the restaurant
- Wakita ordered Gin to capture Camel alive, Gin failed
- Gosho's first drawing of RUM in the file is as a silhouette without detail to the left eye
- Gin angrily grabs the phone Vermouth presents with Camel's picture and shove it in front of Korn who recognizes the Man from the picture RUM sent him 2 years ago.
- Camel was carrying the Copy Machine behind his back, and Chianti shot at it from behind, From the front, the penlight was placed sideways so Akai could get a good shot
- Last page, RUM exits his car and heads for the restaurant after he disguises as Wakita, and he looks at MOURI DETECTIVE AGENCY


Spoiler pic translations:
Rum: That’s so nostalgic....
Gin: Rum!!

Chianti: Why did Rum send you a photo?
Korn: I... was watching the warehouse where the appointment took place, but the appointment was canceled, and after that, Rum sent me a message with a photo... saying: Shoot Rye and this FBI agent to death as soon as you see them...“

Rum: But the killing of the man who the FBI desperately protected is worthy of Evaluation. I wanted to catch him alive so I can ask him more...

(Flashback, File 607, Page 9, Panel 2)
Camel: It’s dangerous here, don’t stay! 
Camel: Ojiisan!
Kor wrote:
December 4th, 2020, 5:41 am
Spoiler pics: https://imgur.com/a/Q3mf7ba

Eh... for prosperity sake, I'll put the following in a spoiler box lol
Spoiler:
I'm pleasantly surprised Gosho made this reveal in this case cause I thought he'll drag this out a bit more. That's the only thing I'm surprised about, though 8-)

Wakita being Rum was always the most likely possibility. The "time is money" bit and the lack of meeting Haibara were the prime giveaways.

And lol looks like I was right on the money to bring back the theory of the old man from the warehouse. Imma pat myself on the back for that one *parrot*
Spoiler:
Yep, you called it, on both counts.
I thought the reveal happening this case was merely possible, not probable—I, too, am pleasantly surprised.
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jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:
December 4th, 2020, 9:43 pm
Spoiler:
not gonna lie, i'm a bit angry. not really about it being Wakita, but it being revealed here and how. The three descriptions were a lie so we kind of wasted a lot of time on literally nothing. We even had cases that framed around contradictory things actually being the same thing when looked at in different ways. Where was that all supposed to go? Since Rum was wearing a disguise anyway, why not just have Rum's real face just match those descriptions some how? I'm not sure whether I'm more upset about this or the Boss reveal though. Still a bit salty about that one.

Why reveal Rum only to the audience here? What does that do? The only thing I can see is the possible awkward comedy / audience fear that can result from us knowing that Rum is dangerously close to Conan and him not really knowing about it. Conan suspects him, sure, but what does Conan really know about anything in this whole "arc"? A lot of things that we know about Rum, Kohji, Rumi, Mary, and Tsutomu have all been shown through flashbacks that are only known to a small number of people. No one has said anything to Conan at all, and he really doesn't have a way to figure out much of that information on his own.

Bourbon was noticeably absent in this story after having that Tea with Akai and Yusaku forever ago. Did he have some secret Spy mission to uncover more info? If not, it feels really weird for him to not at lease be present somewhere in this story, regardless of what side he is shown on.
Spoiler:
It's been a while since you posted, glad to have you back. ;D

Well, if it wasn't for Rum, then it's likely for something else. This is a bit of time and effort that Gosho himself has spent, even if he just put it in there—and had it repeated and emphasized—fully intending it to be no more than a distraction whose sole purpose was to distract us until he wanted to have the reveal of Rum's identity happen. Sure, it shows dedication to the distraction, but unless one sees value in the distraction in of itself/by itself, then you may have a problem.

Well then, I think the Karasuma and Rum reveals pretty much cement this arc as your least favorite by far, right? So what does this mean for your assumptions about the rest of this arc? (or the series, itself, for that matter) Gosho gonna lose some benefits of doubt in your book?

That's one of the big things I've noticed about this arc... if Shinichi/Conan has knowledge/deductions about the things relevant to this arc, Gosho hasn't shown it to us... and the biggest tell for me in regards to this?
Indeed, the tea party of about 3 years ago. Gosho only wants us to know that Bourbon may have a plan (probably against Rum, at the very least) with Shūichi and the Kudōs... but he clearly doesn't want us to know about it yet.

Ultimately, just like the Karasuma reveal, the Wakita = Rum reveal is in line with both the Bourbon arc and the Rum arc—the reveal of the identity of the titular (or otherwise prominent) BO member is not the conclusion of the arc (and unlike the Kir arc, it is not the beginning of the arc, either). In fact, the true big confrontation has yet to happen—technically, this is more build-up. And because we're still in the thick of things, that explains why Rei/Bourbon (and the Kōji/Amanda case, the other 2 now-exonerated Rum suspects, the rest of the Akai family, and Kōmei) had no involvement in this case (and that goes for Shiho's/Ai's absence, too, with all the references her family's got this arc). There're still developments yet to happen—those developments are now where the focus will turn to.
Now, my own thoughts on this:
Spoiler:
I'd like to know who'll be surprised (and not disappointed) by this reveal (that'd be an interesting post to read, imo), but for me, this was the least surprising outcome, and confirms to me that "surprise at the reveal of the identity of the titular BO member of the arc" wasn't Goshō's main aim, here. Once again, we have a guy appealing to Kogorō's wallet to be his apprentice and works next to the Mōri Detective Agency turning out to be the titular BO member of the arc (and is also the suspect who appeared last).

I'm not surprised at all by Goshō doing here what he did during 1,006–1,008/941–942 and just suddenly revealing a major player's identity—after the Karasuma reveal, sudden reveals about characters from hundreds of files ago (this time revealing that the old man from Andre's Clash of Red and Black flashback was in fact Rum) are no longer that improbable.
And I honestly do like that Rum turned out to be the old man from CoRaB—it ties him even further to the Akais.

But what I'm keen on is what'll come after this—I want to see what Gosho will do with this setup.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,061-106X

Post by blackmoon »

alphajjc wrote:
December 4th, 2020, 4:42 pm
Anyway im probably in denial still lol. Just didn't expect this outcome.Do you guys think Wakita/Rum is also the old boss Karasuma if we expect their to be a new boss now. Its just funny to me that both have those descriptions of being extremely impatient.I get being the second in command/closest to the boss/closest advisor and all that, but the descriptions make them seem like the same exact person.

Kor you really were right on the money about the old man in the warehouse. Its crazy how soon after you said it that this happened. Sometimes i think you guys are secret whistleblowers that work with Gosho on the manga and get the spoilers first lol..now i'm really looking at that recent theory about the Okinawa mayor/governor being the current BO boss
Meh... you win some you lose some... just disappointed how old and ugly RUM/Wakita actually is... can't even imagine what the Boss would look like if his image was indeed built on Moriarty... ::)

Image


And doesn't that old man in the warehouse resemble Moriarty first drawn in Conan?

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"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)
Spoiler:
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,061-106X

Post by jimmy_kud0_tv2 »

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
December 5th, 2020, 2:11 am
Spoiler:
Well then, I think the Karasuma and Rum reveals pretty much cement this arc as your least favorite by far, right? So what does this mean for your assumptions about the rest of this arc? (or the series, itself, for that matter) Gosho gonna lose some benefits of doubt in your book?
Spoiler:
No, I like the arc, I just don't understand the reveal. I may not like the months of break, but I've been enjoying getting some kind of clue to the many open ended mysteries we have at the end of every case. It felt like we were building to something. But what we got was this sudden attack by Gin, and then a reveal of the current villain just dropped into our laps. It does kind of establish that the reveal wasn't the main purpose of this arc, but rather the Kohji case, or the Boss. I just had higher hopes that reveals would happen during a chance confrontation between the 3 of them. I'm kind of excited to see where this goes, but it worries me that we may get the reveal of the other two in the same manor, where its revealed / confirmed to the audience, but Conan won't know for another 50-100+ chapters.

I slept on it, thinking about all of the things this means for what we have had so far and what it could be going forward and the most I could come up with is that we will probably get more internal monologue from characters like Wakita now that we know who they are. We might even get more flashback panels to the Kohji case, but this time from Rum's perspective, without fully revealing what happened. I feel like the reveal being done the way it was, takes us down the road of getting to know Rum better as a character to understand how badly his screw up was and what it meant internally for the BO at the time.
I hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,061-106X

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:
December 5th, 2020, 7:33 am
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
December 5th, 2020, 2:11 am
Spoiler:
Well then, I think the Karasuma and Rum reveals pretty much cement this arc as your least favorite by far, right? So what does this mean for your assumptions about the rest of this arc? (or the series, itself, for that matter) Gosho gonna lose some benefits of doubt in your book?
Spoiler:
No, I like the arc, I just don't understand the reveal. I may not like the months of break, but I've been enjoying getting some kind of clue to the many open ended mysteries we have at the end of every case. It felt like we were building to something. But what we got was this sudden attack by Gin, and then a reveal of the current villain just dropped into our laps. It does kind of establish that the reveal wasn't the main purpose of this arc, but rather the Kohji case, or the Boss. I just had higher hopes that reveals would happen during a chance confrontation between the 3 of them. I'm kind of excited to see where this goes, but it worries me that we may get the reveal of the other two in the same manor, where its revealed / confirmed to the audience, but Conan won't know for another 50-100+ chapters.

I slept on it, thinking about all of the things this means for what we have had so far and what it could be going forward and the most I could come up with is that we will probably get more internal monologue from characters like Wakita now that we know who they are. We might even get more flashback panels to the Kohji case, but this time from Rum's perspective, without fully revealing what happened. I feel like the reveal being done the way it was, takes us down the road of getting to know Rum better as a character to understand how badly his screw up was and what it meant internally for the BO at the time.
Spoiler:
Oh. Well, thanks for clarifying that, because this moment in the series strikes me as causing another shedding of long-time fans. (but maybe I'm underestimating how many would go, "nah, this isn't really that bad, we expected this")
Did you have a preference for someone else being Rum, even if you think Kanenori being Rum is fine? And what about the old man from Clash of Red and Black being Rum? You think that's a good answer by Gosho to the question of, "just who is that old man?" For me, I like it better than it being Vermouth or Bourbon in disguise, because it further ties Rum to the Akais.

Well, this happening now can only mean Gosho sees this reveal as but another part of the path towards the culmination of the arc. Fragmenting these developments and making sure they happen separately leaves us with a chance that Kanenori's/Rum's confrontation with his fellow/now-exonerated suspects will be given their own cases to shine in. But I'd be surprised if Rumi isn't involved in the big confrontation case. Now that Hyōe's in the clear, it would seem he's going to be an ally of Team Shinichi/Conan in their—as of yet unrevealed to the audience—plan against Rum. That leaves Rumi as a potential wild card.

Or at least, we won't know whether he knows for a while. This may or may not have a Kir arc moment where he has a big realization moment (File 596, Page 13), and then we don't get him revealing what he knows for a bit. Thinking back on it, such a moment doesn't seem to have happened "on-screen" (or "on-page/panel" in this case) yet. Given the deductions/explanations happen during/after the confrontation with the culprit/antagonist, it may be a while before we get the confirmation of what Shinichi/Conan knows and when he knew it.

I'd like to see what involvement he's had in other BO affairs. (be it from prior arcs, from events chronologically before File 1/Episode 1, or from important points brought up in this arc, like Hiromitsu's/Scotch's death) Even with this pattern of sudden revelation, we've still got developments yet to reach. I'm still not sure if Goshō's going to have this arc wind up as the end all be all, or if there's going to be an Anokata arc after this arc.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,061-106X

Post by Kor »

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:
December 4th, 2020, 9:43 pm
Spoiler:
not gonna lie, i'm a bit angry. not really about it being Wakita, but it being revealed here and how. The three descriptions were a lie so we kind of wasted a lot of time on literally nothing. We even had cases that framed around contradictory things actually being the same thing when looked at in different ways. Where was that all supposed to go? Since Rum was wearing a disguise anyway, why not just have Rum's real face just match those descriptions some how? I'm not sure whether I'm more upset about this or the Boss reveal though. Still a bit salty about that one.

Why reveal Rum only to the audience here? What does that do? The only thing I can see is the possible awkward comedy / audience fear that can result from us knowing that Rum is dangerously close to Conan and him not really knowing about it. Conan suspects him, sure, but what does Conan really know about anything in this whole "arc"? A lot of things that we know about Rum, Kohji, Rumi, Mary, and Tsutomu have all been shown through flashbacks that are only known to a small number of people. No one has said anything to Conan at all, and he really doesn't have a way to figure out much of that information on his own.
Spoiler:
Yep. As far as mystery writing goes, this was pretty abysmal. Both the fake clue and us knowing of it before conan.

Like, this isn't even the first time this arc that a clue turned out to be false. There was the entire RUM ASACA thing, which turned out to refer not to Asaka being Rum, but to Karasuma. But you know what? Fine, it was a bait and switch, and it's not like the message was fully undone, the detective characters just misunderstood it and had to be corrected by the God-Detective. Here it's worse and it feels almost like Gosho just realized he can't tie the hint to the solution so he just retconned it all together (though perhaps this is always what he planned to do, which... might be even worse...?)

As for the recurring "theme" of the readers being ahead of Conan throughout this arc, the biggest problem with that (aside from our potential growing frustration) is that this is the opposite of the staple of detective mysteries, that the reader knows more than the detective. The BO and Akai family stuff are just turning into this pop mystery kind of deal, while still enslaved 95% of the time to the perspective of Conan. There's an ever-growing lack of consistency regarding how and when mysteries can or should be solved in the series (with or without a detective).

Now, all of that said, I'm still glad we got a reveal, even a silly one like that. Is it underwhelming? Sure, but honestly, after Mystery Train, the Scarlet Showdown, the Karasuma reveal, and this weird FBI vs BO confrontation that centered around Camel and included burning an island and another fake death, I can only assume that if we had to wait a few more years for a reveal in the more usual style, it'd have also been underwhelming. So I say, better get an underwhelming reveal earlier than later. Plus I feel like the fandom as a whole has gotten tired of the constant Rum identity bickering (or maybe it's just me), so I'm thankful we can finally move on from that* so we can focus on bickering full time on whether Tsutomu is Kuroda or Tsutomu's just waiting around somewhere until he can make his move.

*although I fully expect that some will continue to insist that Wakita isn't Rum despite this reveal.

As for where we're going from here, it's kind of an unfamiliar (ish) territory cause we can get to see Wakita doing suspicious things while we're in the know. Plus now that he was revealed, the remaining mysteries might build up to a conclusion as we're heading to chapter 1100, so even though the release schedule is slow, maybe we can anticipate more things happening beyond mere teases.

After the Karasuma reveal, the followup cases initially felt like Gosho's starting to resolve stuff. First there was Amuro finding out about Akai for real, then Chiba/Naeko finally got resolved, then there was Koumei which was random, but whatever. But then it started to feel like we're slowing down the pace again, so if there's anything to realistically hope for now is to resolve the Rum mysteries by chapter 1100.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,061-106X

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

Kor wrote:
December 5th, 2020, 2:29 pm
Spoiler:
Yep. As far as mystery writing goes, this was pretty abysmal. Both the fake clue and us knowing of it before conan.

Like, this isn't even the first time this arc that a clue turned out to be false. There was the entire RUM ASACA thing, which turned out to refer not to Asaka being Rum, but to Karasuma. But you know what? Fine, it was a bait and switch, and it's not like the message was fully undone, the detective characters just misunderstood it and had to be corrected by the God-Detective. Here it's worse and it feels almost like Gosho just realized he can't tie the hint to the solution so he just retconned it all together (though perhaps this is always what he planned to do, which... might be even worse...?)

As for the recurring "theme" of the readers being ahead of Conan throughout this arc, the biggest problem with that (aside from our potential growing frustration) is that this is the opposite of the staple of detective mysteries, that the reader knows more than the detective. The BO and Akai family stuff are just turning into this pop mystery kind of deal, while still enslaved 95% of the time to the perspective of Conan. There's an ever-growing lack of consistency regarding how and when mysteries can or should be solved in the series (with or without a detective).

Now, all of that said, I'm still glad we got a reveal, even a silly one like that. Is it underwhelming? Sure, but honestly, after Mystery Train, the Scarlet Showdown, the Karasuma reveal, and this weird FBI vs BO confrontation that centered around Camel and included burning an island and another fake death, I can only assume that if we had to wait a few more years for a reveal in the more usual style, it'd have also been underwhelming. So I say, better get an underwhelming reveal earlier than later. Plus I feel like the fandom as a whole has gotten tired of the constant Rum identity bickering (or maybe it's just me), so I'm thankful we can finally move on from that* so we can focus on bickering full time on whether Tsutomu is Kuroda or Tsutomu's just waiting around somewhere until he can make his move.

*although I fully expect that some will continue to insist that Wakita isn't Rum despite this reveal.

As for where we're going from here, it's kind of an unfamiliar (ish) territory cause we can get to see Wakita doing suspicious things while we're in the know. Plus now that he was revealed, the remaining mysteries might build up to a conclusion as we're heading to chapter 1100, so even though the release schedule is slow, maybe we can anticipate more things happening beyond mere teases.

After the Karasuma reveal, the followup cases initially felt like Gosho's starting to resolve stuff. First there was Amuro finding out about Akai for real, then Chiba/Naeko finally got resolved, then there was Koumei which was random, but whatever. But then it started to feel like we're slowing down the pace again, so if there's anything to realistically hope for now is to resolve the Rum mysteries by chapter 1100.
Spoiler:
That's definitely a perspective thing—whether you prefer an intentionally cynical effort where quality is an afterthought, or a genuine effort that still results in bad quality. From a wholistic perspective, it's probably a mix of both.
Personally, I prefer the latter, because there's passion there. The former may contain the possibility of passion and talent still there but held back, but the attitude problem I think is harder to rectify (in regards to and within the context of the series they no longer have passion to create quality content for, at least).

If Gosho intended the multiple descriptions clue for Rum, then this is a retcon. I just hope if he changed his mind on that, he still elects to find a way to use it for something else. Because that's a bit of time and effort from Gosho himself for a distraction.

Yes, there's been a lack of deduction from the characters. It gives off the sense we may get it all at once during the big confrontation case, which is, I presume, when we'll at least find out just what plan the Kudōs, Shūichi and Rei/Bourbon came up with in File 1,012/Episode 954.
Now, straying from the staples and lack of consistency can be justified... if quality is the end result. But if the end result comes off as either lazy/cynical or honest effort leading to bad quality, then both we and Gosho have a problem.

I'd been wondering if Gosho would deviate from the Bourbon arc, but now it's clear that he wasn't focusing on that, I feel more comfortable turning my full attention elsewhere. Actually, I'm more looking forward to the expected confirmations and confrontations—all the threads coming together. In the sense we're getting closer to those—even knowing the time gaps in store—this reveal is actually pretty reassuring.
And I actually do like that the old man from CoRaB was Rum—that's probably the biggest surprise in this reveal, that Rum is not only Kanenori but also that one old man—I find it a better answer than it being Vermouth or Bourbon in disguise, and I like the further connection between the Akais and Rum.

And it's already on the threads on baidu.
The arc may not be over, and there may be more to reveal, but I don't think there're going to be many twists on this Rum = Kanenori = Old Man from CoRaB reveal.

If the past 3 years have shown us anything, it's that these big reveals can suddenly be dropped on the last few pages (or even last page) of the last file of a case. That's probably the biggest cause for hope among those most hit hard by the pacing (though this doesn't get into the argument of, "all this spy/NOC stuff after the cellphone arc is a detour from where things should've gone, so we're still in filler-land until we get back to boss-focused stuff").
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― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
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Unlucky Devil

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,061-106X

Post by Unlucky Devil »

After looking at the spoiler pics, I noticed a few minor differences between the anonymous Rum page and the Wakita page.
1. While the drivers in both the cars have a similar haircut, there is a minute chance they are different people. Which, yeah, is not big. But,...
2. Look at the placement of Rum and Wakita. Rum is towards the rightmost end of the car's backseat. You can clearly see the central spine of the car's seat. But Wakita is bang in the centre of the car.
3. The seat colours are different. The front seat in the Rum panel is a single seat sewn in the centre, but the Wakita one is two clearly demarcated separate cushions.
4. Wakita panel - look above the head of the driver, you can see a part of the window. But, the car in Rum panel seems to have a section in the back.
5. The colour of the seats is different, though barely so.

The panel differences are subtle, but they are different which means we are being misled classic Gosho style. I say this smells like a red herring. And Wakita should instead be confirmed as NOT RUM.

Additionally, there is no indication to whether the right eye that the silhouette has visible is a fake eye or a real one. Wakita is the only one with a bandage over the left eye, yes, but amongst the other two, Kuroda wears a shadow glass over his right eye. That plus the silly name thing Gin said should pretty much rule him out.
... which means Rumi is the true Rum then?? That's not at all a theory I want to get behind, what with Gosho practically framing Rumi with the farm case and Bourbon's suspicion. But it can probably make sense if one takes into perspective how Jodie messing up the characters for the messsage was shown to be because she learnt it from a teacher. Gosho did seem to really go into the explanation for that one.
Rum's phone in the spoilers shows the phone is white in colour, not black. Both Kuroda and Wakita have been shown to own black phones in chapter 1005. But, Rumi's phone has been shown to be white in chapter 1052 (when she drops it into a bucket)
I think the Rum = Rumi is possibly what I'm able to infer, even though I wanted to rule her out right after Bourbon's increasing suspicions on her during 1051-1054.

Disclaimer: the next part is speculation.
Remember the end of the Snowy Mountain case, and how Kuroda asked for a message to be delivered? It could have been a signal to Wakita (real identity unknown) that he could come to Kuroda for assistance. The car we see him get out of isn't a BO car, but Kuroda's. There was some exchange of information between Kuroda and Wakita.

I'll keep updating my post as I observe more pieces of information XD

I'd really like to hear others' views on this too. Am I making sense?
Last edited by Unlucky Devil on December 5th, 2020, 6:13 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Kor
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,061-106X

Post by Kor »

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
December 5th, 2020, 5:08 pm
Spoiler:
And it's already on the threads on baidu.
Spoiler:
Yeah, I've seen those too. So many on baidu convinced themselves that Rum had to be Rumi (mostly because of that one really lengthy theory thread by some person). It'd been like that for months over there, and it was so weird to behold. So now there are those who are still sticking to Rumi despite the reveal.
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alphajjc

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,061-106X

Post by alphajjc »

Unlucky Devil wrote:
December 5th, 2020, 5:34 pm
After looking at the spoiler pics, I noticed a few minor differences between the anonymous Rum page and the Wakita page.
1. While the drivers in both the cars have a similar haircut, there is a minute chance they are different people. Which, yeah, is not big. But,...
2. Look at the placement of Rum and Wakita. Rum is towards the rightmost end of the car's backseat. You can clearly see the central spine of the car's seat. But Wakita is bang in the centre of the car.
3. The seat colours are different. The front seat in the Rum panel is a single seat sewn in the centre, but the Wakita one is two clearly demarcated separate cushions.
4. Wakita panel - look above the head of the driver, you can see a part of the window. But, the car in Rum panel seems to have a section in the back.
5. The colour of the seats is different, though barely so.

The panel differences are subtle, but they are different which means we are being misled classic Gosho style. I say this smells like a red herring. And Wakita should instead be confirmed as NOT RUM.

Additionally, there is no indication to whether the right eye that the silhouette has visible is a fake eye or a real one. Wakita is the only one with a bandage over the left eye, yes, but amongst the other two, Kuroda wears a shadow glass over his right eye. That plus the silly name thing Gin said should pretty much rule him out.
... which means Rumi is the true Rum then?? That's not at all a theory I want to get behind, what with Gosho practically framing Rumi with the farm case and Bourbon's suspicion. But it can probably make sense if one takes into perspective how Jodie messing up the characters for the messsage was shown to be because she learnt it from a teacher. Gosho did seem to really go into the explanation for that one.
Rum's phone in the spoilers shows the phone is white in colour, not black. Both Kuroda and Wakita have been shown to own black phones in chapter 1005. But, Rumi's phone has been shown to be white in chapter 1052 (when she drops it into a bucket)
I think the Rum = Rumi is possibly what I'm able to infer, even though I wanted to rule her out right after Bourbon's increasing suspicions on her during 1051-1054.

Disclaimer: the next part is speculation.
Remember the end of the Snowy Mountain case, and how Kuroda asked for a message to be delivered? It could have been a signal to Wakita (real identity unknown) that he could come to Kuroda for assistance. The car we see him get out of isn't a BO car, but Kuroda's. There was some exchange of information between Kuroda and Wakita.

I'll keep updating my post as I observe more pieces of information XD

I'd really like to hear others' views on this too. Am I making sense?
No the left eye of the shadow is the fake eye . Wakita’s left eye in his true appearance is clear white

He is Rum. The arc will continue with us just finding out how his left eye got messed up is the first place. Which was probably because of Akai’s father who is in disguise as Koruda harming him with Jeet Kun Do. We will get a setup of Akais father being Rums enemy the same way Gin and Akai are enemies And Jodi hates Vermouth

Wakitas true appearance does have the menacing look the other BO members have. It’s no red herring. And Rum definitely isn’t Rumi, she was Kohji’s lover . He is also the one who hasn’t met Haibara
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Shinan-Kudogawa

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,061-106X

Post by Shinan-Kudogawa »

Spoiler:
Hey all, wighing in. After seeing the exposed panels, it is most likely Rum=Wakita, and like mentioned above, the ID of Rum isn't the focus, rather the information to be delivered.

Yet, I do take it that it is a highly unlikely reveal of RUM. Who in fact, I would like to, as I previousy did, claim he is the fittest candidate for RUM. This revealation, is likely to be a red herring. I do understand that all pieces fall together, and I do take it to be fitting for Gosho to do so. Yet, I have doubt whether he would want to reveal RUM in such a way. The reason being, RUM would not make this grand mistake; to reveal his face to the two drivers, specially if he works like Vermouth/Bourbon, and is super cautious to mislead others by claiming false characteristics.

Hence, to suit theories; I rather see him in more of a guardian role, to everyone's surprise, the red herring of RUM, is actually none other than Tsutomo/Shuu's father. And his true role, explained by the foreign drivers, is CIA. it's been quite a while since they did not engage in BO affairs, not to forget about Ethan Hondo and his daughter. Yet it has been a long of time before any CIA had any move on BO, not in the investigation nor scouting areas.

Hence, we can assume, Tsutomo is actually Wakita. An undercover CIA agent, who is not supposed to be part of this world. His purpose was actually to investigate RUM.
His curiuous filled comment, matches his earlier saying to his wife.

To my mind, it seems like a surprise reveal, a clever move, something I would do myself as a writer. To simply throw in the most suitable candidate in such a drop reveal to twist the revealation. Hence, again it is not for Gosho to easily reveal such an important character.

Again with the revealed pictures, while I believe the BO has international reach. Wakita's drivers seem more American/Blonde, rather than Japanese. Why would RUM bring outside agents to drive him and reveal his true face to them. To me it would be easier, to have a close ethnic character to be on the sure side of knowing the streets and the language (as we can see Jodie made the grand mistake within the current case). The foreign agents, mostly Americans, and Wakita's ease to reveal his face to them, inclines me to think he is a CIA most fittingly to be Tsutomo. While the real RUM, is Kurdoa.

I may be superbly wrong, however, the leak is mysterious in it's way of releasing certain pictures. It may as well be illustrated by Gosho/leaked in a manner, to seamlessly fit panels to misdirect us. Rum could be at another place, and this is another character, I'd say CIA agent Tsutomo, who wants to investigate Camel.

I still cannot get over the fact that RUM reveals his true face to two foreign agents even if he trusts them. Furthermore, his left eye is white/no iris. For Rum to wear a prosthetic eye, he could wear a normal looking one. Why would he resort to a mere white fake eye.

The mention of the Pirate's Spirit, and the weak horse, they allude to a different outlook on the character. It is more than likely. That the Tsutomo CIA personna, may have died when he was revealed to BO and could endanger him/his family, so he killed his ID. And instead used a made up personna to inflitrate BO (Like Shuuichi). Hence creating the Wakita character.

I may be going overboard, yet the old guess of the old man turned half true. However, I'm going to write it anyways; the Daikoku building explosion, back in earlier chapters, when Conan was tipped by the killer about BO, and he raced to the cafe that just exploded. I believe that is the case, that prompted Wakita/Rum/Tsutomo, to take a notice at Kogoro who was the detective that solved the case.

I take it, that if it is as it is, that Wakita=Rum. We are going to dive into the BO, and Conan will somehow know from Rum more info about them. I understand Gosho's mindset and gracefuly accept the reveal as it is, for it wasn't that big of a surprise to me. Yet in the light that Gosho may be playing us, to entertain our frustration with a better twist. Is still a possible way to go.

Is it still far fetched, to say Rum=Wakita=Tsutomo, a character who has been induced into BO?

*** An amusing thought; IS it me, or Wakita's true appearance, is way too similar to Anokata/Karasuma's appearance, both have hooked nose, droppy eyes shape, thick neck, and somewhat a stout body. Could he be the deaged Anokata, hiding his ID by masquerading as his own second in command :D . Or is he a possible Karasuma family member, perhaps the son of Karasuma, cannot believe a 90+ super rich person not having at least a child :D .
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