Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

[vaibhavgupte]

Hi guys, it's The NightBaroness speaking

I have been thinking about RUM's identity for a while. The other day I was going through some chapters where Ai describes RUM and I just came up with a line of thought. You probably discussed it here, but I'd like to give it a shot just in case you haven't, to see what you think about it.

My line of thought had something to do with thinking of RUM as a pirate. You know, there are many references to piracy when talking about RUM: the missing or prosthetic eye, their codename refers to pirate's favorite drink, the line Wakita says about "Pirate's spirit is such a weak horse", implying RUM might be a weak agent or something... also, I took into account the BO rumours about RUM appearence, which happens to be "sometimes effeminate, sometimes old, sometimes a strong man".

Following the Rum-is-a-pirate line of thought, I went to my shelf and re-read the Stevenson's book "Treasure Island." I found a very curious coincidence with our RUM's intel and an evil pirate called Blind Pew. If you haven't read it, I'll sum up his attributes. (Also, find them in wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Island)

• - BLind Pew lost his sight in some kind of battle -> RUM damaged one eye in an incident.

- Blind Pew is a skilled fighter despite his blindness -> RUM is implied to be strong even with his one-eyed condition (see suspects: Kuroda, Wakasa and Wakita)

• Blind Pew is considered to be some kind of leader -> RUM is second in command.
  
  • Blind Pew has two henchmen that aid him whenever he asks -> this is somewhat delicate. If Gosho Aoyama based RUM in this character (dunno, sometimes he references old stories, and this is one of a classic) maybe we could interpret the RUM suspects as RUM's right and left arm?
    
    This is mere speculation.
    
    One could imagine that Wakita (codename: Highbal, as many suggested) could be one of the two RUM's confident, sent to investigate Kogoro Mouri. Wakasa Rumi (codename:Whiskey??), on the other hand, could be the other confident sent to investigate Conan as the brain behind Sleeping Kogoro. That could somehow explain why Wakasa has the APTX list (how could she, if she isn't a BO member? Is she another spy?). Also, this would be another way to interpret Gosho's answer when he said that RUM was among the Kuroda-Wakasa-Wakita trio, just not in the way fans expected.
    
    Now, who is real RUM?
    
    There was the theory of Chikara Katsumata's (name rearanged: Hikkata Karasuma) character as Haneda Shuckichi's big shogi rival, who "coincidently" made his first appearance right after RUM was introduced as a character in the Scarlet Prologue. He appeared after that in the marriage registration paper case and indirectly in the Haneda and Akai case.
    
    This is mere speculation, but imagine that he (Katsumata) is RUM and he ordered Asaka (Wakasa) to kill Amanda Hughes because of her contacts with FBI and CIA. He also added Haneda Koji to the equation because he would pose as a direct shogi rival for him.
    
    I read that Haneda's dying message could be interpreted as Karasuma + scissors (Katta) + the missing shogi piece. Dunno if there is something like "Hi" in shogi. Haneda could have offered resistence (hence Wakasa's scars, missing eye and memories) and built the message in regards to his rival.
    
    Gin said RUM screwed up the case, but he never said that RUM was present. HE could have sent one of his confidents. Also, I find it extremely strange that RUM messed up Haneda Koji's case and was never punished with death for that. Pisco was killed by Gin under The Boss's command when he messed up the Haido Assassination.
    
    • Another interesting thing about Blind Pew (Treasure Island) is that he died crushed by a horse
    -> There is some shogi piece called UMA involved, right? It could be an analogy between the two characters. That UMA shogi piece could pose as a very dangerous thread to RUM.
    
    About Kuroda, I think he is just a PSB leader [/align]and, perhaps, Akai daddy. I do not consider him nor RUM nor a RUM's confident.
    
    So far, we don't know RUM's goals. We know he is very interested in Kudo Shinichi recently, and that is why he ordered Bourbon to report about him. Maybe his goals before that had something to do with Sleeping Kogoro and hence why he sends his associates. He couldn't do it himself if he is a famous shogi player. Like Vermouth can't show herself if she isn't in disguise. Only RUM lacks the ability.
    
    This was my line of thought. I'm sure I'm wrong, let me know!!

there is also a theory of muga iori being rum. I have given it on page 86 and 87 of my thread.read if if you are intersted.

[Mohamed Ebrahem]

TheNightBaroness

I will explain to you why Gosho made Karasuma Rynea number 2 and not number 1 as it was before . Honestly , it is an extremely intelligent Gosho move , as expected of him as usual .

Suppose that Karasuma Rynea is the current Boss , so what will the fans do when Arc Rum ends and Arc Boss begins , they will ignore all the new characters that will appear and will only search for the new Karasuma Rynea identity , Gosho knows that fans will ignore Karasuma Rynea and they won't search for his new identity in Arc Rum , and this is what Gosho wants . Since the fans are now very focused on identity of Rum among the three suspects . Fans won't search for the new identity of Karasuma Rynea in this arc , so Gosho put Chikara Katsumata / Karasuma Rynea in Arc Rum because it will not be emphasized in the current Arc by fans .

And when the fans know later that Chikara Katsumata is RUM / not the current boss , they will be surprised and ask why Goshu ? Didn't you show us in manga that Karasuma Rynea is the Boss ? Gosho will say : Yes He was the former boss , but because of his many mistakes in Kohji's case , Karasuma/chikara became RUM and another Boss was appointed , and you must search for the new Boss when Arc boss begins .

[DCUniverseAficionado]

He was the former boss , but because of his many mistakes in Kohji's case , Karasuma/chikara became RUM and another Boss was appointed , and you must search for the new Boss when Arc boss begins .

Under who's authority? Who has the clout and influence to tell the original founder to lose rank, and then force him to accept a lower position? Not only that, why leave Karasuma alive if this person already has the power to force Karasuma to lose rank? Why risk him making a play to regain his former leadership and get revenge for being humiliated?

[Mohamed Ebrahem]

Under who's authority? Who has the clout and influence to tell the original founder to lose rank, and then force him to accept a lower position? Not only that, why leave Karasuma alive if this person already has the power to force Karasuma to lose rank? Why risk him making a play to regain his former leadership and get revenge for being humiliated?

Chikara / Karasuma now has full influence over all members of BO , but he now has the codename "RUM" while the new Boss has the name "Anokata" , I mean it is only a change in names .

It is not a legal organization to say there is a assignment and change of positions , there may be no positions in it , but Codenames may be inherited and transferred between them .

Almost everyone of high position in BO knows Karasuma's mistakes in the Kohji's case as Gin said to vodka in soul detective case . In your opinion , what will the organization do after they know about their Boss/Karasuma mistakes ?

[DCUniverseAficionado]

what will the organization do after they know about their Boss/Karasuma mistakes ?

Since you've brought it up, let's go over what we do know about Rum after the case.
Goshō said in SDB Black+ that the reason Rum wasn't executed for this mishap was "because he's #2." That implies he was already #2 when the Kōji case happened (and there's the telling implication that if you're high-ranking enough, you'll be spared after a blunder).

Now, even if it's revealed later that there's a new/current Rum and an old/former Rum and a new/current Anokata and an old/former Anokata, the precedent we have in the BO is this—superiors punish subordinates. There's no precedent for subordinates rebelling against the ultimate superior.
Members like Gin, Vodka, Chianti and Korn losing faith in the BO would lead to two possible outcomes—other BO members their rank would simply leave the BO for an organization with a boss that didn't make such mistakes, causing a depletion of manpower in the BO, or other members their rank would tow the line, and then be sent after deserters to eliminate them.
The fact that the BO has remained so undetected and untouched for so long, to the point that government intelligence organizations are struggling to put them down indicates that there's nowhere near enough chaos within the organization to cause something like a mass desertion, which would create many witnesses and be such a information leak risk for the BO. There's no indication the boss "screwing up" would lead to a mutiny on the part of the other members, or cause a mass desertion.
The boss of the BO suddenly becoming #2 would point to two possibilities—he either stepped down willingly, or was forced to step down. From Karasuma's actions in the Sunset Manor case (File 299–File 302/Episode 219) seem to point to a man that has too much ego and ambition to simply give up power. Which brings us back to the question—who has the power to force a man like that to step aside? There's no indication of such a person.

Things like the BO's symbol being crows, yet the person who could destroy the BO being equated to a silver bullet, something that kills werewolves... until we get more specific information regarding such matters, I'm not willing to speculate too much on whether Renya Karasuma is the current BO boss or not.

[Kor]

Throwing this idea out there given the recent spoilers. This could be invalidated in case any of the spoilers are wrong or have a different meaning from what was reported so far, but oh well.

According to DCW, in the Let's Talk with Gosho Day in 2017, there was this bit.

Q46: You said in Animal Crossing that Rum's already appeared. Has Rum's name and face appeared?

A: His/her name haven't shown up, in a sense! Maybe his/her face has appeared...?

What is this referring to? Well, back in 2014, before any of the Rum suspects have even made their appearance, Gosho said in AC that rum has already appeared. Many (including myself) have determined that he might just jokingly be referring to Lum, who had had a "cameo" a bit earlier in a referential way.

(the AC thing in question)


In the recent spoilers, Vodka says several things about Rum, two of which are as followed:

Vodka: He changed his face…

Vodka: and took on a silly name…

Regarding the first part, I'm hesitant to determine how much of a change and in what manner the change was done (probably intentionally vague), but what this could mean is, Rum really had shown up before September 2014, so the AC hint was really about Rum.

About the name, while we don't know when he took on a silly name, I'm assuming he didn't take said name before the Kouji case, as it sounds like a more recent-ish thing he did. But this line of thinking also means that the shogi piece taken from Kouji's palm can't really function as a dying message that tells us of the name of the Rum suspect (not that anyone has managed to form a straightforward meaning anyway).

So, for the sake of the post, I'm also going with the assumption (as I've always had) that Wakita is Rum. Those teeth could be fake for all we know, and silly name, well, it is a silly name with that anagram. (If you're an advocate for Rumi/Rum then that name is also silly cause it's made out of the message in Kouji's murder)

So if Wakita is Rum, where could we have seen Rum's not-changed face before any of the Rum suspects even made their appearance?

I can think of two candidates:

One candidate would be (ugh,) Katsumata. It's not the first time that someone has suggested Katsumata and Wakita may be the same person. They have a similar build, Katsumata appeared right after Rum was first mentioned, etc. Why I have a hard time with this is Gosho doesn't give his bad BO members redeeming qualities, and Katsumata has a daughter (who as far as we know is a nice person), so I don't know if it fits with Gosho's usual conventions. Also, Katsumata's and Wakita's VAs aren't the same person (yeah I know if they were, it'd have given it away so it's not the strongest argument). Also also, can Katsumata really keep a shogi gig while making sushi and follow Kogoro around?


Another candidate (whom I prefer more but that's beside the point) is... the old man who interrupted the FBI's operations back when Akai infiltrated the BO and caused Camel to blow his cover. Yes, that guy.

Reasons why:
1) Gosho reminded us of that guy back in chapter 896, two chapters before Rum was first mentioned. Coincidence...? Well, maybe, this could be completely wrong too :V

2) There are quite a bit visible similarities between the old guy and Wakita:




Big nose
Similar and defined facial lines
Those lines things right next to the eyes


As I said at the start of the post, all of the above can very well be invalidated if the nature of the spoilers is somehow actually different or by next week we get some new bit of info that contradicts this, but I think the biggest takeaway is, Rum changed his face, but we may have seen his face before, so a previously seen character may just yet be Rum (who is under the guise of Wakita or Kuroda or Rumi)

[DCUniverseAficionado]

So if Wakita is Rum, where could we have seen Rum's not-changed face before any of the Rum suspects even made their appearance?

I can think of two candidates:

One candidate would be (ugh,) Katsumata. It's not the first time that someone has suggested Katsumata and Wakita may be the same person. They have a similar build, Katsumata appeared right after Rum was first mentioned, etc. Why I have a hard time with this is Gosho doesn't give his bad BO members redeeming qualities, and Katsumata has a daughter (who as far as we know is a nice person), so I don't know if it fits with Gosho's usual conventions. Also, Katsumata's and Wakita's VAs aren't the same person (yeah I know if they were, it'd have given it away so it's not the strongest argument). Also also, can Katsumata really keep a shogi gig while making sushi and follow Kogoro around?

Considering Goshō's SDB Black+ comment about Rum being one of three people, one of the only ways for Chikara to be Rum is for him to be Kanenori—and even if it's revealed later that his daughter Mina was adopted (and that she doesn't seem to be a BO operative, herself), that's still a rather atypical/off-brand thing for the traditional/unsympathetic villain that Gosho seems to be setting up Rum to be.
Of course, if Gosho actually wants Rum to come off as both sympathetic and ruthless, then Mina may be the first step of that (if Chikara is Rum). But the problem remains that Chikara has barely appeared in this arc—even his fellow dark horse Rum candidate, Muga, has appeared more—if Goshō wanted to set Chikara up as a sympathetic yet ruthless villain, he could've had him appear more, and establish this sympathetic aspect of his character, and then reveal that he's actually Rum, causing ambivalence within the audience/readership.
And while I definitely have been on the Chikara = Rum train, the Chikara = Kanenori train is one I haven't really considered jumping aboard. I recognize that it's possible, but I just don't think it's very likely—and that's even with this new information that Rum "changed his face."
If nothing else, I'm sure that Rumi isn't Rum. So this new information leaves us with two possibilities:
1) Rum has taken Hyōe Kuroda's place
2) Rum slotted in the buckest of teeth and is following Bourbon's example of appealing to Kogorō's wallet
And I'm also sure that Tsutomu Akai isn't dead, so whichever of the two Rum turns out to be, Tsutomu will likely be who Rum isn't.

Another candidate (whom I prefer more but that's beside the point) is... the old man who interrupted the FBI's operations back when Akai infiltrated the BO and caused Camel to blow his cover. Yes, that guy.

Reasons why:
1) Gosho reminded us of that guy back in chapter 896, two chapters before Rum was first mentioned. Coincidence...? Well, maybe, this could be completely wrong too :V

2) There are quite a bit visible similarities between the old guy and Wakita:




Big nose
Similar and defined facial lines
Those lines things right next to the eyes

As I said at the start of the post, all of the above can very well be invalidated if the nature of the spoilers is somehow actually different or by next week we get some new bit of info that contradicts this, but I think the biggest takeaway is, Rum changed his face, but we may have seen his face before, so a previously seen character may just yet be Rum (who is under the guise of Wakita or Kuroda or Rumi)

Considering how much Goshō has tied Rum to the Akais, this would be another way to tie them together even more—for this arc, that old man being Rum would fit better than him being Vermouth.

[Kor]

If nothing else, I'm sure that Rumi isn't Rum. So this new information leaves us with two possibilities:
1) Rum has taken Hyōe Kuroda's place
2) Rum slotted in the buckest of teeth and is following Bourbon's example of appealing to Kogorō's wallet

Would Gin (or Vodka) consider Kuroda's name to be silly, though? The only potentially silly part is how it's basically based on the name Kuroda Kanbei, but Hyoue is also a regular Japanese name. Plus in Kuroda's case, Rum wouldn't be the one to choose the name because he switched with an existing Kuroda.

And I'm also sure that Tsutomu Akai isn't dead, so whichever of the two Rum turns out to be, Tsutomu will likely be who Rum isn't.

I agree with this assessment on the conventional level (and on the characters-economic level), and if Tsutomu is one of the suspects, I'm still leaning to Kuroda (despite the potentially contradicting element), but there might still be the possibility that Gosho may just make Tsutomu neither of the two and he'll just show up on his own. I'm still assuming that the semi revelation planned in movie 24 will involve Tsutomu (not necessarily revealing who he is, just revealing he's still alive), but I guess we'll have to wait until after the movie for more Akai development in the manga.

Hmm... there's still the "big thing" Gin talked about in a recent file. Wonder if we'll have to wait until file 1100 to know what that is, or Gosho will follow up on the current case with another BO case starting 2021. I suspect the former, but would appreciate the latter. As for the case around (or a bit before) the new movie 24 release date, I expect more Sera.

[DCUniverseAficionado]

Plus in Kuroda's case, Rum wouldn't be the one to choose the name because he switched with an existing Kuroda.

At least as far as the initial translation we got goes...

He changed his face… and took on a silly name…

...that's the workaround. "Took on" leaves out the nuance of whether Rum had a choice in the matter of the name of his new identity.
But if further analysis/discussion by translators leads to a new translation for this line—if it reveals that this line actually specifies that Rum was the one who came up with the name of his new identity—then that would be quite the evidence in favor of the Kanenori = Rum theory.

But there might still be the possibility that Gosho may just make Tsutomu neither of the two and he'll just show up on his own. I'm still assuming that the semi revelation planned in movie 24 will involve Tsutomu (not necessarily revealing who he is, just revealing he's still alive), but I guess we'll have to wait until after the movie for more Akai development in the manga.

Hmm... there's still the "big thing" Gin talked about in a recent file. Wonder if we'll have to wait until file 1100 to know what that is, or Gosho will follow up on the current case with another BO case starting 2021. I suspect the former, but would appreciate the latter. As for the case around (or a bit before) the new movie 24 release date, I expect more Sera.

I suppose that comes down to whether Gosho prefers the idea of having the male suspect who isn't Rum being their own character, or would rather just merge them and Tsutomu together. The latter would connect Tsutomu to current events better than the former, but the former may serve other purposes Gosho may have better (that is, if Gosho wants to do something with the male suspect who isn't Rum that banks on him not being Tsutomu).

Yeah, I'm still expecting a post-credits scene for that. There may be a seemingly throw-away line that hints to Tsutomu in the movie proper, but that'll probably be it.

Given the context of the Rum arc, it's probably a "wipe out the spies" operation—the BO equivalent of what the Kudōs, Shūichi and the FBI and Rei/Bourbon are planning.

We'd probably get to the next century mark by early-mid 2022, if we stay at the current pace. Clash of Red and Black went like this—how the anime did it differently notwithstanding—a 4 file case (595–598), a 6 file case (599–604), and then a 5 file case (605–609). Here, we have a 3 file case (1,058–1,060) followed by a 6 file case (1,061–1,066). Hopefully, we'll get a case longer than 3 files next time (and that has generally been the norm since the Karasuma reveal), and that will be as connected as the Clash of Red and Black cases. This would probably hinge on whether either side of the conflict has an immediate move to make, immediately after this incident has concluded.

Before we were brought onto this continuation of the Rum/Yusaku and Yukiko/Shūichi/FBI plot thread (1,006–1,008/1,009–1,012/1,013–1,017/1,058–1,060/1,061–1,066), we've been cycling between:
Hyōe threads (1,006–1,008/1,013–1,017/1,027–1,031)
Kanenori threads (1,006–1,008/1,027–1,031/1,055–1,057)
Rumi threads (1,006–1,008/1,032–1,034/1,051–1,054/1,057)
Rei threads (1,008/1,009–1,012/1,017/1,021/1,027–1,031/1,051–1,054/1,057)
Miyano family backstory threads (1,009–1,012/1,022–1,026)
Morofushi family backstory threads (1,018–1,021/1,027–1,031)
Masumi and Mary threads (1,022–1,026/1,035–1,038/1,047–1,050)
Akai family threads (1,022–1,026/1,035–1,038/1,043–1,046/1,047–1,050)
And of course, the Kōji case interlinks most if not all of them.

I'd say we're due something about Hyōe, Masumi and Mary (or maybe even another family flashback hint—be it Akai, Morofushi or Miyano). We're most certainly due the return of either a DB centric case—their appearance at the beginning of the current case was the first since the case with Rei/Bourbon and Rumi—or a case with a Mōri present (be it Kogorō and Rei/Kanenori or Ran and Masumi/Sonoko). So yes, I'd expect further MI6 shenanigans fairly soon.

[Yondakai]

Hi everybody,
Here's my point on Rum.

In my opinion, the one who's appearing as Wakita is RUM.
Here's the thing, he is a TRUE TOKIOYTE, only a real one would know that the wind would blow Camel toward the Monkey Island (don't remember the exact name)...

Moreover, Wakita got real science knowledge, whether it's in histoire first appearance, or even in the Snowy Moutains case...

But another point is sounds strange to me :
-Kuroda fell in a coma 10 years from the current story time line
-The Haneda case occured 17years from now.
I think that there is a missing link.

And why would Kuroda take Morofushi away from Furuya in the snowing moutains..

PS : didn't you notice that the burn on fake Akai's mask looks like the one on Kuroda's face...

[blackmoon]

Well the following is some spoiler information about RUM from file 1065:

Spoiler:

"Chianti: He? Don’t tell me you’ve actually seen Rum’s face?
Camel (internal monologue): Huh?
Vodka: It’s the impression he gives off... There’s all sorts of rumors about him, saying it’s a giant of a man, an effeminate man, an old man, or that he has a artificial eye…
Vodka: But according to Gin...
Vodka: The only true part of that is the artificial eye. The rest was basically all false information spread by Rum himself to protect his identity."

So... if those descriptions about RUM were all false information, then it basically means RUM is NOT an old man, NOT a giant man, and NOT a female like man, which means RUM is either NOT a male or instead a male that falls beyond the above three categories... But considering RUM's involvement in the Kohji case 17 years ago, and considering even if RUM was just 15 at the time will still make RUM at least 32 years old... unless RUM also took APTX like Vermouth and cannot age. Hmm... not much help in figuring out the RUM mystery but... I think RUM spreading false information about himself and voice changing even to other B.O. members may not just be an element of suspense to keep readers in mystery, perhaps there is a deeper reason for that? Why else would RUM try to "hide his indentity" even towards other B.O. members? Neither Gin nor Vermouth did so... and we all know Sharon Vineyard was quite famous.

[Spimer]

Some BO members worked in stuff that made them in the spotlight but were able to hide their identity nevertheless because they were that good at acting / pretending there wasn't more to them.

RUM might hide his identity because, being the No. 2 of the BO, he might predict someone would try to capture / take him out to put the BO at a disadvantage. Or to avoid someone in the BO trying to play smart and leaking info on them.

[andi2ews]

According recent spoiler is for you over the theory RUM = Chikara?
i was sure about his true identity but Gosho seems denied it. Anyway there is a little similiraty with Chikara and the true RUM aspect.
What do you think? Especially Mohamed, i liked his idea of Chikara, it was similar to mine, so i think that he was hurt like me from this revelation

[DCUniverseAficionado]

According recent spoiler is for you over the theory RUM = Chikara?
i was sure about his true identity but Gosho seems denied it. Anyway there is a little similiraty with Chikara and the true RUM aspect.
What do you think? Especially Mohamed, i liked his idea of Chikara, it was similar to mine, so i think that he was hurt like me from this revelation

Spoiler:

The Rum arc is still going, and there will be at least some additional twists before it ends...
But yes, with these two theories confirmed:
Rum = Kanenori Wakita
Rum = The old man from Andre Camel's Clash of Red and Black flashback (Manga File 607, Page 9)
...I now think it's reasonably safe to say that any theories about Hyōe Kuoda, Rumi Wakasa, Chikara Katsumata or Muga Iori being Rum can be laid to rest.

EDIT:
The only way I see any 4th suspect theories panning out at this point—the only way Muga or Chikara can still turn out to be Rum—is if both Kanenori Wakita and the old man from CoRaB are but a two-layered disguise Vermouth provided to Rum, and either Muga or Chikara is the one wearing it.

[Kor]

So what's left for us going forward?

Rumi is Asaka. This is pretty much a given at this point. The questions that remain are:
1) Is she also the uploader?
2) How did she come across the APTX victims list. Is she a current or former BO? Part of some agency? Did she just hack her way through independently?

(Personally, for question 1 I'd say the answer is yes, and for 2, I'm leaning towards the hacking option. I know it'd be silly, but whatever.)

About Tsutomu:
Is he currently Kuroda, or is he just waiting around undisguised until he can make him move?

If Kuroda isn't Tsutomu, then is Kuroda anything beyond just some NPA/PSB guy? How is he connected to the Kouji case or Rum?

(Despite potential contradictions, I'd prefer it if Kuroda and Tsutomu are the same person. It'd be more economic and more convenient for us if that's the case).