Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

[dccd]

Ah ok, now I get you.
And I have to admit that your actually right about him being somewhat under the radar / not suspicious after his reveal.

I personally dismiss him for further reasons:
- his Intro
- he was designed by the movie-staff
- it seems his "place in the dc-universe" is being the butler of Momiji.
Atleast he wasnt shown in a chapter without him having this role.

[ And this exactly is one small point, why I believe Sakurako to be Rum. She clearly isnt just there to be Naekos friend.
Why? Because she appeared in 3 Chapters -> 2 of them didnt even had Chiba or Naeko involved.
Instead she appeared in 2 (atleast for me) pretty suspicious places (Shukichis flat and a hotel (who lives in a hotel?)) ]

But well, we´re both moving on somewhat subjective ground and since neither you or I can prove/disprove it at this point of the story,
I guess we have to wait and see.
Atleast we both agree that noone of our 3 mainsuspects is Rum.

@Oxy
Np^^, your obv smarter than me

[MeiTanteixX]

I personally dismiss him for further reasons:
- his Intro
- he was designed by the movie-staff

Iori Muga was designed by Aoyama, although the character was at first designed to be an old man. It was then changed to the handsome young butler as he is, who's very faithful to Momiji. He's not speaking in a Kyoto accent.

Link to M21 guidebook translations.

[ And this exactly is one small point, why I believe Sakurako to be Rum. She clearly isnt just there to be Naekos friend.
Why? Because she appeared in 3 Chapters -> 2 of them didnt even had Chiba or Naeko involved.
Instead she appeared in 2 (atleast for me) pretty suspicious places (Shukichis flat and a hotel (who lives in a hotel?)) ]

The thing is... I fully understand why you would think Sakurako's whole deal of reappearing, when she is seemingly not important, is suspicious(on some level, I agree with you). What I can't comprehend however is the leap that you are making from "suspicious" to "RUM".

But well, we´re both moving on somewhat subjective ground and since neither you or I can prove/disprove it at this point of the story,
I guess we have to wait and see.
Atleast we both agree that noone of our 3 mainsuspects is Rum.

Nothing can be proven so long as the Rum mystery is still going, but I do still wonder what you think the likelihood of Sakurako being Rum is.
Yep, it's not like Bourbon arc either(where we knew for a fact that Vermouth was calling one of the suspects "Bourbon").

[dccd]

Again everything highly subjective.

About the likelihood of her being Rum:
With the arc already running for 3-4 years... well, I would say about 80%.

Why do I mention the age of the arc?
Because Im absolutely convinced that Gosho will stick to his pattern and let Rum
appear in the early beginnings (or in this case even before the actual start) of the arc.
This also fits the 10 golden rules - even if the search for Rum isnt a whodunit on its own in the classic sense.
Still Vermouth, Kir and Bourbon did appear kinda at the beginning of their respective arc.
In the case of Bourbon it is important to mention that he actually did appear pretty much at the beginning as Scar Akai.
Even though it wasnt his "true form", it still dont break the actual rule or pattern Gosho uses.
So yes, I think we already met Rum.

Another aspect is the gender
First of all I think the boss will me male for obvious reasons (classic male vs male-duel in the end, Sherlock vs Moriarty)
Therefore it seems like Goshos last opportunity to introduce a female high ranked member.
And nope, I dont consider Vermouth as being high ranked due to her treatment by Gin.
Again my first reaction when I heard about Rum was to think of an old man.
The descriptions kinda supported this thought.
Somehow it seems it was Goshos idea too when few chapters later he introduced Kuroda as the first true Rum suspect.
So if we are supposed to think that Rum is an old man, he kinda might be the opposite at the end -> a young women (with the help of ATPX).
Still the alcohol-pattern kinda speaks against this idea.

I dont see any other role for her so far.
If she would be Naekos childhoodfriend, her appearence in the hotel-room doesnt make any sense since neither Naeko nor Chiba were there.
I dont believe Gosho would include her into that case just to remember the audience about Naeko/Chiba and then didnt mention them even once.
So her appearence in the case has to have a sense.
Which one?
I dont find any sense besides letting the reader know that she likes black tea and is somewhat near in a hotel.
You dont gain any other info about her from that case (atleast I dont see any) so you kinda have to work with what you got.
And since I believe that Rums goal besides finding betraitors is to find and kill Mary, this would make absolutely sense.

And last but not least it seems that Gosho kinda did very well about letting a character appear again and again at suspicios locations
without the majority of the readers even noticing the existence of the character.

So yeah, she is my pick.

[Themaninarmor]

Well another possibilities for ASACA RUM code means 2 person... Rum and Asaka. From file 1005, i can't imagine how shinichi escape that situation, if RUM really know he still alive. But if somehow the situation like Irish in Movie 13 where Asaka as Rum's henchman, acting alone and not reporting it to Rum. Then Shinichi will have a chance to survive and counter attack by catching the Rum's henchman. .

Of course i want to know how Gosho develop the situation where Rum knows Shinichi still alive too. But i can't stand Ran, Haibara and the others face a great danger. At least not now .

[DCUniverseAficionado]

Im absolutely convinced that Gosho will stick to his pattern and let Rum
appear in the early beginnings (or in this case even before the actual start) of the arc.
Still Vermouth, Kir and Bourbon did appear kinda at the beginning of their respective arc.
In the case of Bourbon it is important to mention that he actually did appear pretty much at the beginning as Scar Akai.
Even though it wasnt his "true form", it still dont break the actual rule or pattern Gosho uses.
So yes, I think we already met Rum.

Chris Vineyard/Vermouth First Appears: File 238 (Vermouth Arc, File 1 of 200)

Hidemi/Rena/Kir First Appears: File 499 (Kir Arc, File 1 of 122)

Rei/Toru/Bourbon First Appears: File 677 and File 793 (Bourbon Arc, File 56 of 277 and File 172 of 277)

Chikara Kastumata First Appears: File 899 (Rum Arc, File 1 of 107 (as of the release of File 1,005, there are 107 Files in the Rum arc))

Hyoe Kuroda First Appears: File 913 (Rum Arc, File 15 of 107)

Rumi Wakasa First Appears: File 966 (Rum Arc, File 68 of 107)

Kanenori Wakita First Appears: File 975 (Rum Arc, File 77 of 107)


Sakurako Yonehara First Appears: File 781 (Bourbon Arc, File 160 of 277)


As you can see, none of the characters above Sakurako were introduced that long before the arc in which they first attained story primacy.

Also—is Sakurako Yonehara a real person that Rum replaced, or an identity that Rum completely made up?

Therefore it seems like Goshos last opportunity to introduce a female high ranked member.

So if we are supposed to think that Rum is an old man, he kinda might be the opposite at the end -> a young women (with the help of ATPX).

Female, you say? What about this part of your signature?

[ ] Yonehara or Yoko = Rum (Yonehara is male)

Wait, APTX? How's that?

[dccd]

With the given info at the moment I cant possibly answer all questions raised up.
I aswell have no idea what happened in the that case 17 years ago.

1) I admit that the early intro breaks the pattern in some way, but I doubt that this arc will be the same as the other arcs.
It would also fit the early "Rum already appeared" (was it at the time of 904 or 906? sth like this) if Lum wasnt the one meant.

2) This part of my signature is kinda a really loose guess since I dont really know about how Gosho
handles the alcohol pattern this time.
All I want to point out is that gender is kind of an unsure thing in DC since Gosho doesnt draw adam apples.
Just remember the moonshine-sonata-case and even Sera which is constantly being mistaken as a boy.
But Im aware that this is a really super guessed.

3) I dont believe Rum will have an old body since everyone expects so.
We only have Kuroda and Wakita by now as "old suspects".
I dont see any problem with Rum taking APTX or silver bullet or any other drug at any time to cause the same effect as Vermouth.

Btw, Im absolutely ok with Chikara as a Rum suspects since it would be a really cool solution.

Still my key point is that in a crime-story usually every appearence of a sidecharacter has deeper sense.
It either gives the main character more info about the main crime or in this case should develop a side story.
But in this case her appearence doesnt seem to cause any progess.
The case itself would work with a random character instead of her as well.
So there has to be a sense which is under the surface and in my opinion it is to tell us that she was at a hotel, which lines up with
the fact that she were near Shukichi -> she´s looking for Mary.

But really loose guesses, I know.

[DCUniverseAficionado]

I dont see any problem with Rum taking APTX or silver bullet or any other drug at any time to cause the same effect as Vermouth.

Still my key point is that in a crime-story usually every appearence of a sidecharacter has deeper sense.
It either gives the main character more info about the main crime or in this case should develop a side story.
But in this case her appearence doesnt seem to cause any progess.
The case itself would work with a random character instead of her as well.
So there has to be a sense which is under the surface and in my opinion it is to tell us that she was at a hotel, which lines up with
the fact that she were near Shukichi -> she´s looking for Mary.

But really loose guesses, I know.

How? Why? And above all, why hasn't Rum taken care of Shinichi/Conan and Shiho/Ai yet? If Rum has "I took APTX and lived" in common with them—and given that Rum has seen both of them more than once (781–786/652–655; 847–849/731–732; 918–920/814–815)—then it should be simple to do away with them. The BO should already be aware of "our perfect crime weapon gives people a chance to survive," and, thus, should have already hunted Shinichi/Conan and Shiho/Ai down—either they'd found this out when Rum survived, or when Rum told Anokata after seeing them and deducing their identities. Rum should know what Shiho looked like at age 7, right? Shinichi's 7-year-old appearance wouldn't be too hard to uncover, either. And any Vermouth-esque motivation on Rum's for not telling the BO about them, in spite of knowing their secrets, is going to be lambasted.

The fact that Sakurako has had so much exposure to Shinichi/Conan and Shiho/Ai (especially Shiho/Ai) is a major strike against her being Rum—it's the same reason Rumi has a major strike against her being Rum.

That's called DC pacing—it makes things look as if something will go nowhere, when it really is a matter of just how long it will take for something to go somewhere. Maybe it's just a matter of time until Sakurako's importance is revealed. Because I, too, believe she's more than just some recurring maid character who happens to be Kazunobu's and Naeko's childhood friend... I just don't think she's Rum. She's not the Tomoaki Ariade of the Rum arc—she's the Eisuke Hondo of the Rum arc (as in, she's connected to an important character of the arc, not someone replaced by a BO member... and she was replaced, according to you, right? Is Sakurako Yonehara a real person, or a fake identity made up by Rum?)

I get it—the narrative hasn't seemed to focus on her (just like Chikara). Just like it didn't seem to focus on Vermouth while she was disguised as Tomoaki. It hasn't shown her making suspicious or evil expressions. But here's the thing—from a certain perspective, being ignored by the narrative is tantamount to Gosho screaming that the reader shouldn't ignore that character. So it really depends on what you consider obvious and what you don't—as well as the context(s).

[dccd]

How? Why? And above all, why hasn't Rum taken care of Shinichi/Conan and Shiho/Ai yet? If Rum has "I took APTX and lived" in common with them—and given that Rum has seen both of them more than once (781–786/652–655; 847–849/731–732; 918–920/814–815)—then it should be simple to do away with them. The BO should already be aware of "our perfect crime weapon gives people a chance to survive," and, thus, should have already hunted Shinichi/Conan and Shiho/Ai down—either they'd found this out when Rum survived, or when Rum told Anokata after seeing them and deducing their identities. Rum should know what Shiho looked like at age 7, right? Shinichi's 7-year-old appearance wouldn't be too hard to uncover, either. And any Vermouth-esque motivation on Rum's for not telling the BO about them, in spite of knowing their secrets, is going to be lambasted.

The fact that Sakurako has had so much exposure to Shinichi/Conan and Shiho/Ai (especially Shiho/Ai) is a major strike against her being Rum—it's the same reason Rumi has a major strike against her being Rum.

On this part I strongly disagree.
Both are officially dead. So even if Rum meets them in persona, which might have happened already, she has no reason to assume that a kid who maybe resembles
another dead person actually is that person.
Japan has a population of 130 mil. So it isnt really too spectacular if one resembles another.
Speaking of Ai we can assume that Rum, due to Ais membership in the bo, knows how she looks like.
Still Ai is dead for the bo, so there is no reason to be cautious.
Speaking of Shinichi I doubt that Rum knows about his look as a kid. And up to this chapter he was officially dead too.
I doubt that any smart/strange kid would instantly would be considered as a APTX-victim by Rum.
But hell yeah, we already have first doubt (CH 783 P7) about Conans true identity, which lines up with the current chapter.

And up to this point Kuroda and Rumi saw them aswell. So if you follow that logic you kinda have to dismiss them aswell.
(And I would have to do the same with Yoko, Higo, Azusa and Sakurako).
That leaves us Wakita (which is an obvious bo-member) and Chikara.
Might be right, well see.

That's called DC pacing—it makes things look as if something will go nowhere, when it really is a matter of just how long it will take for something to go somewhere. Maybe it's just a matter of time until Sakurako's importance is revealed. Because I, too, believe she's more than just some recurring maid character who happens to be Kazunobu's and Naeko's childhood friend... I just don't think she's Rum. She's not the Tomoaki Ariade of the Rum arc—she's the Eisuke Hondo of the Rum arc (as in, she's connected to an important character of the arc, not someone replaced by a BO member... and she was replaced, according to you, right? Is Sakurako Yonehara a real person, or a fake identity made up by Rum?)

I kinda disagree and agree with you at that point.
Your right with this being Goshos (somewhat slow) pacing-style.
But as I said usually every appearence means progess of the overall-story in some way.

Kuroda
First app -> Introduction
Second app -> He moved to Tokio, is now near Conan
3rd app -> He gets to know about Rumi being near Conan
4th app -> He meets Rumi
5h app -> He knows about Shinichi

Rumi
First app -> Intro
2nd app -> Wants to meet Conan or Ai, Wakita and Kuroda hear the news about her
3rd app -> meeting with Kuroda
4th app -> She knows about Shinichi

With Wakita pretty much the same.

I still dont see any other logical progress or context which she fits in except "She is looking for Mary".
This does not need to mean that she is Rum but so far to me this is the most appealing alternative.

And since she is 23 she obv must have took APTX.
If we assume that she took APTX in the case 17 years ago her age in the flashback of Naeko would fit right in.
Its even possible though that she in reality is her mother which died to an, so far non defined, illness.

Unfortunatelly I cant answer all questions.
All Im so sure about that I would bet a lof of money on it is, that neither of our 3 main suspects is Rum.

[kkuuddoo]

How? Why? And above all, why hasn't Rum taken care of Shinichi/Conan and Shiho/Ai yet? If Rum has "I took APTX and lived" in common with them—and given that Rum has seen both of them more than once (781–786/652–655; 847–849/731–732; 918–920/814–815)—then it should be simple to do away with them. The BO should already be aware of "our perfect crime weapon gives people a chance to survive," and, thus, should have already hunted Shinichi/Conan and Shiho/Ai down—either they'd found this out when Rum survived, or when Rum told Anokata after seeing them and deducing their identities. Rum should know what Shiho looked like at age 7, right? Shinichi's 7-year-old appearance wouldn't be too hard to uncover, either. And any Vermouth-esque motivation on Rum's for not telling the BO about them, in spite of knowing their secrets, is going to be lambasted.

The fact that Sakurako has had so much exposure to Shinichi/Conan and Shiho/Ai (especially Shiho/Ai) is a major strike against her being Rum—it's the same reason Rumi has a major strike against her being Rum.

After reading your post, I just have some things to point out

1- Shiho is target by the BO because she is a traitor to them and she Ran Away
2- I think if Rum took the APTX and lived, you would make sure that the list is true, and everyone on it is really dead !

* So Rum should be haunting down shinichi only, since the BO has no idea how shiho escaped and they don't know she had an extra pill in her pocket that she attempted to commit suicide with. Only Vermouth knows about Shiho, and she is not about to tell anyone, she seemed like she wanted to take care of haibara herself ! ( Halloween, and the bombs that ruined Bourbon plan in Mystery train )

3- We know that Haibara didn't see Rum, and only heard the three descriptions ( old man, feminine man, strong build) & that one of Rum's eyes is prosthetic.

* We Don't know if Rum saw Shiho while she is working in the BO, and if he did see her, We don't if he saw her when she was young. My reasoning for saying that is the Pisco went ahead and searched her up before he took her to the wine cellar.

I am sure Rum knows about Shiho running away, and maybe he believes she is dead like Gin and Vodka, since Vermouth told Gin she Sherry is Dead, then was dumb founded by conan and kaito kid.

In the End, I Just want to say that I think that the BO wont be going after Shiho unless they find out that she is still alive. And Unless vermouth tries to kill her again, which is unlikely in the meantime, yet possible.
The person they May go after, especially after File 1005, is SHINICHI KUDO only, or a least that's what I think

[mtcc]

npa members could be 5 or 6 if we consider basketball team as hint on last rumi case
and later v 4 males and 1female or 5 -1
npa mentioned 916

[DCUniverseAficionado]

And up to this point Kuroda and Rumi saw them aswell. So if you follow that logic you kinda have to dismiss them aswell.
(And I would have to do the same with Yoko, Higo, Azusa and Sakurako).

Yes, exactly.

That leaves us Wakita (which is an obvious bo-member) and Chikara.
Might be right, well see.

The only character Chikara has interacted with is Shukichi... he hasn't interacted with anyone else. So he's leagues above the rest, in my book, at least in that department.

I still dont see any other logical progress or context which she fits in except "She is looking for Mary".
This does not need to mean that she is Rum but so far to me this is the most appealing alternative.

And since she is 23 she obv must have took APTX.
If we assume that she took APTX in the case 17 years ago her age in the flashback of Naeko would fit right in.
Its even possible though that she in reality is her mother which died to an, so far non defined, illness.

Unfortunatelly I cant answer all questions.
All Im so sure about that I would bet a lof of money on it is, that neither of our 3 main suspects is Rum.

That's assuming she's a parallel to Tomoaki (character replaced by a BO member), rather than a parallel to Eisuke (someone with a connection/relationship to a plot character).

Again, how? And again, why?

So you mean Rum is just like Vermouth (ageless disguise expert)?

On this, I agree.

[MeiTanteixX]

On a different note...
Gosho just couldn't let the pattern of Muga's appearances die with the latest case.

Spoiler:

[Serinox]

Except that techincally the pattern is broken, since usually the Rum stuff comes before a Iori appearance and not the other around and it is broken since they appear in the same case and not in successive cases like before. But hey, who's counting ?

[MeiTanteixX]

Except that techincally the pattern is broken, since usually the Rum stuff comes before a Iori appearance and not the other around and it is broken since they appear in the same case and not in successive cases like before. But hey, who's counting ?

In that sense, sure. However, them appearing in the same case is the next tier of connection indication to begin with.

[Kor]

So here's a weird request. No one has to follow this cause it's more of a thought exercise-ish.

Been noticing a bit of posts in this thread that have talking points roughly along the lines of "this is how Gosho does stuff" or "this fits a pattern that Gosho does", and nothing bad about recognizing patterns and stuff, I do that as well, but when combining the various "Gosho methods" or "Gosho patterns" that have been suggested in the last few pages, I can't really believe they're all compatible with each other (and some may be faulty to begin with).

So does someone mind skimming through the last few pages and compile the various "this is how Gosho does things" talking points?

(Could of course be that it's not such a recurring thing as I'm thinking and I just made up a pattern based on one or two posts I've seen lately in this thread... wink wink)