Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Post Reply
Zerozaki4869

Posts:
465

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Zerozaki4869 »

k11chi wrote:
Zerozaki4869 wrote:
Serinox wrote:
Zerozaki4869 wrote:A) Prolouge of the scarlet arc, file 898, It's explicitly stated that nobody in the FBI knew about Rum. Akai heard about the name 2-3 times during his infiltration stint.
Uhh, no, that's not stated anywhere in that chapter. Jodie and Camel haven't heard the name, but apart from that, we are not informed who knew about Rum beforehand. The FBI is a very big organization itself, you can't just say from Jodie and Camel not knowing that nobody in the FBI knows about Rum, especially if the FBI was really part of the case from 17 years, since there were other agents in charge back then.
Uhh, yes. Jodie, Camel and Akai were handling the BO case under the supervision of James Black. It's a written rule for the intelligence agencies to give all possible information to the Infiltrator so that the infiltration procedure becomes smoother. Now if so that means if FBI had the information, they would have mentioned it to Akai for better performance but no such thing was stated to Akai or his team-mates. James Black is a big gun in FBI, so he must have equipped Akai with all possible inputs, but Rum doesn't appear in them.(Akai only heard the mention of the name 2-3 times in the BO.) So it's as good as explicitly stating that FBI had no prior info about Rum.
No it's not, and Akai proves it. Akai knew of RUM but never mentioned about it, and KIR has less of a reason to give information as she's on thin ropes, following her father's footsteps. It's not stated anywhere. There's no written rule in the DC world because the characters now act on their own, look at Akai during Clash.

It's a complicated situation but there's no such thing as as good as said about it rofl.
You seem to equate knowing with hearing a code-name 2-3 times. They are not the same. He never knew about RUM when he was in FBI, he only heard the mention of the name when he was in BO. So FBI didn't know about Rum.
A can be explained away quite easily, or at least the way you put it can be. Tsutomu Akai would be "involved" in the case if his actions were why they killed Kohji in the first place. If Kohji was strongly connected to the Akais, Shuichi might've joined the FBI to investigate that, in tandem with the forced disappearance of his father. At this point, Kohji's murder may've been the only lead into the Tsutomu case, so investigating that was relevant to both.

B. It isn't just a question of medical assistance. APTX-4869 is an "untraceable" drug, meaning it's improbable the doctors would've been able to do anything for him, since its composition and effects were largely unknown. Assuming Kohji had some knowledge of this, he might've figured it was more worthwhile spending his last minutes trying to kill Rum rather than trying in vain to save his own life.

C. I already suggested that Rum and Kohji got into a fight, which would explain the wounds on Kohji's face and body. The question of Kohji's fingerprints, on the other hand, is an entirely different animal which I'll admit there wouldn't really be any explanation for. As for Amanda's death, one should note that the online poster might not have had all the information pertaining to the case but just a good bit of it, which would explain gaps like the cause of Amanda's death. However, it may be possible that he barged into her room, searched through her stuff, found some APTX in there, and forced it into her mouth, knowing that was the stuff used to poison him. She was a little old lady so I don't imagine there would've been much of a struggle.

D. Perhaps Rum expected the drug to kill him thoroughly and quickly, and he was surprised to find that Kohji was still up and about, after which he might've concluded that it didn't work.

E. I don't really see the difference. You don't have to grab scissors very hard to use them for cutting, so my guess is he just used them for stabbing the mirror, since he was clenching them.

F. Perhaps at the time Rum wasn't the second in command?

A) Akai only got interested in the case and joined because it involved his father, this was his only motivation. If his reason were like you stated(avenging both Haneda and his father as Haneda was close to them) then Haneda's name would also have been uttered by Akai during that pledge.

B) Who told you that Kohji knew about APTX? (17 years old version of APTX was classified, even for a person like Gin. That's why he said Sherry's version is new untracable poision, during the very beginning of the series.) So are you saying Kohji was related to the development of that APTX of 17 years ago or he was as influential in BO as Rum, back then??

C) Why didn't we see marks of strangulation in Amanda's body if Kohji really killed her? Why didn't we Kohji's fingerprints on her body? Are you suggesting also that Kohji was a high ranking BO operative also having an APTX dose with him and used it to kill Amanda?? Also why Amanda's room was so clean, if Kohji killed Amanda there would have been proof of some struggle? Are you saying Kohji had cleaned the room after all this despite being drugged with APTX?? We don't know whether APTX allows the victim this much of a stamina while at the same time sending symptoms that he's going to die?

D) Don't deal in perhaps, it proves your theory isn't fact based. Where is the proof, that Rum thrashed him after drugging him?

E) Have you ever used a pair scissors? Try this little experiment, hold the scissors for cutting something and try to stab the air in that pose, you'll understand the difference. BTW bruises often caused due to scissors on the base of thumb and index finger if someone extensively uses them like tailors, or someone who tries to cut very hard stuff with scissors.

F) Where is the proof that Haneda was linked to BO?
User avatar
Spimer
Moderator
Do not underestimate the power of the Dark Side of the Force!

Posts:
1780

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Spimer »

Here is a survey about Wakasa Rumi (not by me) regarding her affilitations, intents and such. If anyone's interested you can try it out:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIp ... rm?c=0&w=1
"I shall revive again, again AND AGAIN!"
alphajjc

Posts:
94

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by alphajjc »

If Rum is indeed Chikara then that would have been a couple BO members who are famous in the real world. Once again IF he is Chikara before people go at me saying nothing is confirmed

But Vermouth being a famous American actress
Rum(if Chikara) being a famous Shogi player
Kir even though she was a CIA spy under the BO she was a news reporter in her role for them
Pisco when he was alive was a Car Company Chairman

It really makes me wonder again what position if any the Boss can have.. not gonna speculate who it is cause its too early to guess and most likely it will be a new character. But i'm just wondering what job role he could hold if any. Like could he be a billionaire or would he have a more humble lowkey position

as cheesy as it may be maybe he very well may be similar to Conan as far as being very young
Zerozaki4869

Posts:
465

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Zerozaki4869 »

Spoiler alert : Boss is a homeless man living off social support. \s
User avatar
MeiTanteixX

Posts:
1307

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by MeiTanteixX »

After @Chekhov MacGuffin's finding of an unknown object being in Kohji's palm, I made my own analysis of Kohji's dying message and what I think the unknown object is.

Image

"U MASCARA" has "UMA" in it, so it makes me wonder if the "Uma" piece is supposed to play as a keyword/lead-way for how to read the mirror message.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''
DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gq ... hWaNIRUu0Q
Zerozaki4869

Posts:
465

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Zerozaki4869 »

Pardon the intrusion, but UMA is already there in the mirror message, why would the piece having the same characters(latin) in the dying message would be there in his palm?
User avatar
MeiTanteixX

Posts:
1307

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by MeiTanteixX »

Zerozaki4869 wrote:Pardon the intrusion, but UMA is already there in the mirror message, why would the piece having the same characters(latin) in the dying message would be there in his palm?
Because whatever message Kohji is trying to deliver needs "UMA", or it plays a role in the way you read the message.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''
DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gq ... hWaNIRUu0Q
Zerozaki4869

Posts:
465

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Zerozaki4869 »

Then I've an alternate interpretation which you might find interesting.
Only the "U" shard was cut and Kohji cut the S, everything else just broke apart after the mirror fell.(probably Kohji threw to break it.)
As you mentioned it only signified the importance of the Shogi piece.
The scissors giving you "K,A,T,T,A" and you mentioned the piece might be "U,M,A" and if we take the "S" from Mascara, we can get KATSUMATA.
User avatar
MeiTanteixX

Posts:
1307

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by MeiTanteixX »

Zerozaki4869 wrote:Then I've an alternate interpretation which you might find interesting.
Only the "U" shard was cut and Kohji cut the S, everything else just broke apart after the mirror fell.(probably Kohji threw to break it.)
As you mentioned it only signified the importance of the Shogi piece.
The scissors giving you "K,A,T,T,A" and you mentioned the piece might be "U,M,A" and if we take the "S" from Mascara, we can get KATSUMATA.
If the "U" shard wasn't a part of the message, then he wouldn't have gotten rid of it along with the other letters, and if the other letters were accidentally broken, then they wouldn't have disappeared from the crime scene. I have yet to see any indication that the scissor is a part of the message, so I wouldn't rush to the Katsumata theory just yet.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''
DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gq ... hWaNIRUu0Q
Zerozaki4869

Posts:
465

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Zerozaki4869 »

I do have something to back that up. If you look closely what You can see in the mirror's matrix, is scissor marks. The marks are there in the place of U are scissor marks and at the same time there's scissor marks on the possible place of the S.(I'll send the pic to you via reddit.)

I don't think they disappeared, they weren't in the photo explicitly. So I can't conclude that those stuff were removed.
User avatar
Chekhov MacGuffin
Community Scholar
BAGA BGEGD EDBDEG A

Posts:
2684

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Chekhov MacGuffin »

MeiTanteixX wrote:After @Chekhov MacGuffin's finding of an unknown object being in Kohji's palm, I made my own analysis of Kohji's dying message and what I think the unknown object is.
Spoiler:
Image
"U MASCARA" has "UMA" in it, so it makes me wonder if the "Uma" piece is supposed to play as a keyword/lead-way for how to read the mirror message.
I feel like your Shogi-piece shaped U-shard glass theory is losing sight of the fact that Kohji was rushing to complete his dying message under the threat of death. I remember writing this either on DCTP or the spoiler cbox months ago (too lazy to look in my old posts), but it doesn't make sense for Kohji to delicately trim out the glass into an exact shape in his last moments like he was making an art project. Glass trimming is far from exact; it works more like you are nibbling pieces off rather than cutting paper. Simply cutting out exact letters on a small surface is difficult, especially if this is his first time trying and he is stressed from realizing he will be killed (or hurt after being attacked). The mirror also has a backing which just complicates the cutting method further.

The U shard theory feels like an example of unintended pattern spotting.
User avatar
MeiTanteixX

Posts:
1307

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by MeiTanteixX »

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:I feel like your Shogi-piece shaped U-shard glass theory is losing sight of the fact that Kohji was rushing to complete his dying message under the threat of death. I remember writing this either on DCTP or the spoiler cbox months ago (too lazy to look in my old posts), but it doesn't make sense for Kohji to delicately trim out the glass into an exact shape in his last moments like he was making an art project.
Does it look exact? it doesn't to me. But it does still bear a resemblance, and it's not worth doubting that he could have intentionally tried to make it as similar as possible when he noticed that the "U" can be made into a clue for the "Uma" piece, because then we might as well start doubting how anyone in DC can think of clever dying messages in the nick of time.
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:The mirror also has a backing which just complicates the cutting method further.
Are you implying that he didn't remove the mirror from its casing before cutting it under water?
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''
DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gq ... hWaNIRUu0Q
Zerozaki4869

Posts:
465

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Zerozaki4869 »

MeiTanteixX wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:I feel like your Shogi-piece shaped U-shard glass theory is losing sight of the fact that Kohji was rushing to complete his dying message under the threat of death. I remember writing this either on DCTP or the spoiler cbox months ago (too lazy to look in my old posts), but it doesn't make sense for Kohji to delicately trim out the glass into an exact shape in his last moments like he was making an art project.
Does it look exact? it doesn't to me. But it does still bear a resemblance, and it's not worth doubting that he could have intentionally tried to make it as similar as possible when he noticed that the "U" can be made into a clue for the "Uma" piece, because then we might as well start doubting how anyone in DC can think of clever dying messages in the nick of time.
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:The mirror also has a backing which just complicates the cutting method further.
Are you implying that he didn't remove the mirror from its casing before cutting it under water?
It doesn't have to be UMA piece, there's other horse pieces too, like the Knight(Corsica Horse).

The casing of the mirror looks intact, it's more like the mirror was forced cut under the water while the insides prying open of the casing, that's why the marks are on the casing. Now if we look at it again, Kohji removed the mirror from the casing before cutting it then
firstly putting it back on the casing is quite far-fetched and
secondly even if that was the case, the broken pieces wouldn't be stuck to the casing.
So he cut it while forcing in the scissors and under tap water.

(On a side-note, it's good to see the thread getting serious again.)
User avatar
Themaninarmor
It's not about me

Posts:
167

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Themaninarmor »

I think we still don't know about the shogi piece!? In rumi's pocket have conection with DM. It could be a memento from kohji. Also, kohji used the cutting glass method to deceive the culprit which is a smart person, if kohji hold a shogi piece in his hand, the culprit would realize and took it, then the massage couldn't be solved. Also whoever have the shogi piece is the culprit but Rumi carry it with her why?

If the shogi piece was part of the clue, kohji must sink it with the glass fragment too, but it will be a fatal thing because if it lost and no one find it then His DM will be useless too. So i think the "U Mascara" is the real DM because it doesn't matter if it lost or destroyed.
I think whatever Rumi had in her pocket is only a proof that she had connection with kohji or the case 17 years ago, and it isn't connected with the DM.

(Yeah, after 3 weeks)
130177130179417
ran mamijo kun
katara kare anya masuno
User avatar
k11chi

Posts:
1505

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by k11chi »

The culprit didn't supposedly realize that the cutting glass was a message.
Post Reply