Okiya Subaru's True Identity

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
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Kor
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Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by Kor »

soratothamax wrote:
Isn't it all speculating?  ??? I'm not trying to convince anyone anything. I just can't see it. :P

It's weird in that way. I don't care to have evidence to prove this theory of mine. A sense of the character keeps itching at me telling me that Akai will show up out of nowhere when someone like Ai will be in danger and needing assistance, and then Akai who was watching from behind-the-scenes from out of nowhere, will fire a gun and ward off someone's plans...like he always does. Akai being Okiya....seems totally absurd for me.....it's not based on facts, but on analysis, which I think it sounds like everything here is....

Not that it is impossible, just totally out-of-character for Akai.

I apologize if you didn't get the exact post. I'll just explain my theory.

Akai doesn't seem like a guy who would disguise himself as a smiley, Sherlock Holmes fan, who can cook. I think Gosho is trying to put coincidences that he's like him, just like he did with Jodie and Vermouth, but they are going to be totally different people. I feel Okiya is good at deducing like Akai, and is made to replace him for the time being.

I don't think Scar Akai or Okiya are Akai. I think Akai is lurking behind-the-scenes. One of the two of them could be Bourbon. The other could be a cover-up by the CIA....

I think Okiya is pretending to be nice as a cover-up. I think Conan let him in his house to ward off suspicion and I think Conan wants to watch him. OR Conan might see that he is a good guy...

OR it could be Ai's long-lost dad. I think if Ai senses that someone knows her, she starts to get suspicious. How many people would pay attention to Ai? Not too many people know her....so I think it's safe to say anyone who she feels pays to close attention to her makes her paranoid...especially if they smell like they were part of the BO, which Akai was, so he probably carried their scent.

It's like smoking. you smoke so long you start to smell like smoke...Or you're around perfume for so long you smell like perfume. Somehow Okiya is related to the BO.
This is why it's hard for me to take your posts seriously. Chekhov here, has a bunch of proofs, which are things that happened in the manga.
You however, analyzing stuff and use them for the sake of the arguement, but your analyzings are based on your opinion alone. "He doesn't seem the type" That's your OPINION, "its out of character" that's your OPINION!
How is it out of character, anyway? He shouldn't be seen at all, because then Kir would be in danger, so what other option does he have besides disguising as someone else? Akai wants to protect Haibara, so now that he is in a disguise, he could do it easily.

mysteries are not like couple arguements - it doesn't depend on our our opinion or the way we see the character, but on the written proof/clues.
If Okiya is a third party (CIA), then sorry, but this would be the worst mystery yet, because Gosho didn't give any clue that supports it. Why does Haibara fears Okiya? Why did Okiya recognize scar Akai, why does Conan is aware of the address of a CIA agent, and if Conan doesn't even know he's a CIA agent, why would he want a random stranger to be inside his house?

In the Vermouth arc, like now, Gosho has spreaded clues among his many files. Looking at these clues now, they perfectly fit to the conclusion
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Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by DarkConan2009 »

Ok first off, I have not read this whole thread but I did read the page 1 and 30 to 31. (I will be going back to read them later) but I wanted to put my two and a hafe cents in before I forgot. So If this has been mentioned before please forgive me. I don't read the magna but I do watch the eps. (I know DUH!) My grip on the names is hard and that is another conversation.

Some good points have been brought to lite in this topic. From Ai's reations to Conan's seemingly unconsurned dismissel of the man living in his house.

I think this guy is not with the FBI or the CIA. I think he is like Akai. He wants to take down the BO for his own reasons. I haven't seen anything to suggest this guy can't be just Jo Blow with an ax to grind. Like...(the kid that turned out to be the brother of the BO member who was in the hospital. Sorry can't remember his name) He had skills that made it seem like he was trained to be an agent but it turned out it was his father who was an agent.
This guy may have lost his parents, a lover or even a family member because of the BO and he wants to take them down. He may even be trying to take them down from the inside. One can even make the argument that he was the first Conan. A bright young detective that crossed paths with the BO and wanted to bring them down but can't because he can't get any concret proff that they even exist. (minus the amazing srinking posion of course)
Well I am off to read this whole thing (may take a day or two but looks to be worth it.)
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soratothamax
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Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by soratothamax »

Kor wrote:
soratothamax wrote:
Isn't it all speculating?  ??? I'm not trying to convince anyone anything. I just can't see it. :P

It's weird in that way. I don't care to have evidence to prove this theory of mine. A sense of the character keeps itching at me telling me that Akai will show up out of nowhere when someone like Ai will be in danger and needing assistance, and then Akai who was watching from behind-the-scenes from out of nowhere, will fire a gun and ward off someone's plans...like he always does. Akai being Okiya....seems totally absurd for me.....it's not based on facts, but on analysis, which I think it sounds like everything here is....

Not that it is impossible, just totally out-of-character for Akai.

I apologize if you didn't get the exact post. I'll just explain my theory.

Akai doesn't seem like a guy who would disguise himself as a smiley, Sherlock Holmes fan, who can cook. I think Gosho is trying to put coincidences that he's like him, just like he did with Jodie and Vermouth, but they are going to be totally different people. I feel Okiya is good at deducing like Akai, and is made to replace him for the time being.

I don't think Scar Akai or Okiya are Akai. I think Akai is lurking behind-the-scenes. One of the two of them could be Bourbon. The other could be a cover-up by the CIA....

I think Okiya is pretending to be nice as a cover-up. I think Conan let him in his house to ward off suspicion and I think Conan wants to watch him. OR Conan might see that he is a good guy...

OR it could be Ai's long-lost dad. I think if Ai senses that someone knows her, she starts to get suspicious. How many people would pay attention to Ai? Not too many people know her....so I think it's safe to say anyone who she feels pays to close attention to her makes her paranoid...especially if they smell like they were part of the BO, which Akai was, so he probably carried their scent.

It's like smoking. you smoke so long you start to smell like smoke...Or you're around perfume for so long you smell like perfume. Somehow Okiya is related to the BO.
This is why it's hard for me to take your posts seriously. Chekhov here, has a bunch of proofs, which are things that happened in the manga.
You however, analyzing stuff and use them for the sake of the arguement, but your analyzings are based on your opinion alone. "He doesn't seem the type" That's your OPINION, "its out of character" that's your OPINION!
How is it out of character, anyway? He shouldn't be seen at all, because then Kir would be in danger, so what other option does he have besides disguising as someone else? Akai wants to protect Haibara, so now that he is in a disguise, he could do it easily.

mysteries are not like couple arguements - it doesn't depend on our our opinion or the way we see the character, but on the written proof/clues.
If Okiya is a third party (CIA), then sorry, but this would be the worst mystery yet, because Gosho didn't give any clue that supports it. Why does Haibara fears Okiya? Why did Okiya recognize scar Akai, why does Conan is aware of the address of a CIA agent, and if Conan doesn't even know he's a CIA agent, why would he want a random stranger to be inside his house?

In the Vermouth arc, like now, Gosho has spreaded clues among his many files. Looking at these clues now, they perfectly fit to the conclusion
Well, you need to stop trying to argue with everyone and listen for once, which you have a hard time doing...  ::)

When it comes to everything I feel that there are all possibilities. I don't deny that Okiya is Akai based on your evidence, but somehow I can't see it either.

Is it so wrong to express my opinions? you make it sound like a crime? There is not a law saying that I don't have to have an opinion. I am not trying to prove a theory here. I just feel if it happens it'd be awkward for me. You don't have to take what I say seriously, but that is from your own arrogance that you ignore the opinions of others.

These "clues" you THINK Gosho spread are your own interpretations. They are also not FACTS either. So they are your opinions. I can't deny your "facts". But from my analysis of character, I make my judgments.

in couples, mysteries, bo, and anything that involves the story, I spring forth my opinions. I am not trying to be right, like you think you are. I am trying to leave room open for other possibilities to others' opinions.

Akai was presented to me as an intense person, holding a lot of pain, similar to Ai in that way. But Okiya...he seems different.....

I can't see it.

Gosho could very well could be leading everyone down a deep hole with all your "evidence" and he may turn out to be someone totally unexpected...
Last edited by soratothamax on March 10th, 2010, 2:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kor
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Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by Kor »

soratothamax wrote: Well, you need to stop trying to argue with everyone and listen for once, which you have a hard time doing...  ::)
Yeah, because whatever you say is automatically true, so I need to listen to what you say  :-*
soratothamax wrote: but that is from your own arrogance that you ignore the opinions of others.
the same thing can be said about you.

One thing one can conclude from everyone's arguements, NO ONE listens to others here. You obviously aren't going to start, no reason why I should as well. (I'm going to leave this comment as it is and see how smart you can get)

You want to talk arrogance? Arrogance is "everything influences everyone and that's it" sorry, but you have no proof for that. I read yesterday an article about two 10 year olds who killed a 2 year old. Please explain what the hell influenced them to do so and not even realize it was wrong. Some people are simply born with things such as mental disorder or something in their gene.
It's not proven but it is very likely that music and other talents come from the genes as well. Otherwise, why are there people who simply CAN'T be a musician no matter how hard they try? Same for imagination - some people (like me) have plenty of that, while others don't.
Not everything can be explained via "influence" and it is arrogant of you to reply all the time with the same comment.

So instead of telling me to "shut up and listen" how about you'd try to do the same, especially when Chekhov gives such great arguements, while you only give...well...whatever you'd like to call it.

edit: and to continue, just because I'm arguing with you and those who believe in what you believe, doesn't mean I'm arguing with EVERYONE. Otherwise, you are arguing with everyone as well, and with your posts, you just say say and say, dismiss dismiss and dismiss, but you've yet to have an arguement which convinced me otherwise of what I believe.
Think what you want about ShinRan, dismiss what others say about Shinran, I don't care, but don't wonder why people don't agree with you. You're not a "know it all" as you seem to think, and neither am I. I argue for my what I believe, and you argue for what you believe. Saying to me "You don't want to listen and you are wrong" is also not true. I listen to people who can give good arguements - Chekhov.

I get it, ok? You think you're right, but for some reason, you don't like it that others don't think so, but to tell them "you don't listen to others, you are arrogant and you are wrong" is stupid, and it would DEFNITELY won't make other people listen to what you have to say.
You don't like it that I'm arguing? Well...if everyone agreed with you, wouldn't the world be a boring place? You simply choose to get annoyed by it.

EDIT2: and if you have any real proof for why Okiya can't be Akai, please share it with us.
Last edited by Kor on March 10th, 2010, 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by soratothamax »

Kor wrote:
soratothamax wrote: Well, you need to stop trying to argue with everyone and listen for once, which you have a hard time doing...  ::)
Yeah, because whatever you say is automatically true, so I need to listen to what you say  :-*
soratothamax wrote: but that is from your own arrogance that you ignore the opinions of others.
the same thing can be said about you.

One thing one can conclude from everyone's arguements, NO ONE listens to others here. You obviously aren't going to start, no reason why I should as well. (I'm going to leave this comment as it is and see how smart you can get)

You want to talk arrogance? Arrogance is "everything influences everyone and that's it" sorry, but you have no proof for that. I read yesterday an article about two 10 year olds who killed a 2 year old. Please explain what the hell influenced them to do so and not even realize it was wrong. Some people are simply born with things such as mental disorder or something in their gene.
It's not proven but it is very likely that music and other talents come from the genes as well. Otherwise, why are there people who simply CAN'T be a musician no matter how hard they try? Same for imagination - some people (like me) have plenty of that, while others don't.
Not everything can be explained via "influence" and it is arrogant of you to reply all the time with the same comment.

So instead of telling me to "shut up and listen" how about you'd try to do the same, especially when Chekhov gives such great arguements, while you only give...well...whatever you'd like to call it.

edit: and to continue, just because I'm arguing with you and those who believe in what you believe, doesn't mean I'm arguing with EVERYONE. Otherwise, you are arguing with everyone as well, and with your posts, you just say say and say, dismiss dismiss and dismiss, but you've yet to have an arguement which convinced me otherwise of what I believe.
Think what you want about ShinRan, dismiss what others say about Shinran, I don't care, but don't wonder why people don't agree with you. You're not a "know it all" as you seem to think, and neither am I. I argue for my what I believe, and you argue for what you believe. Saying to me "You don't want to listen and you are wrong" is also not true. I listen to people who can give good arguements - Chekhov.

I get it, ok? You think you're right, but for some reason, you don't like it that others don't think so, but to tell them "you don't listen to others, you are arrogant and you are wrong" is stupid, and it would DEFNITELY won't make other people listen to what you have to say.
You don't like it that I'm arguing? Well...if everyone agreed with you, wouldn't the world be a boring place? You simply choose to get annoyed by it.

EDIT2: and if you have any real proof for why Okiya can't be Akai, please share it with us.
I wasn't arguing against anyone...not even Checkov. I didn't deny his evidence. It was just funny to imagine Akai behind a mask...especially one with pink hair, squinty eyes, and a smiley face....

It's difficult for me to see it. And maybe it was difficult for me to see because I've never seen Akai dress in disguise before. I'm going rofl if I see it....

It's just...totally random for me, based on how I've seen Akai's character. Am I trying to have proof, and prove anyone wrong? No, because there are so many possibilities with this character, that I can't deny anything here.

I can't believe you brought up influence here. lol :D Wow....well at least I can be influenced to believe someone else's logic. you on the other hand...well, who knows maybe you can too....

And maybe those ten year olds were taught by their peers that it was cool...maybe they played too many video games....or watched too many crime stuff as younger children...or maybe someone supplied them with the weapon...maybe someone's parents did it before...so many possibilities....

Everytime you bring up another scenario about influence, it just proves they were influenced.... ::)

I don't understand why you are arguing with me when I never said anything to contradict anyone here. All I said, is I can't see it happening because it just seems....out-of-character for Akai for me.

If it is true, I'm going to LAUGH SO HARD. ;D
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Kor
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Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by Kor »

soratothamax wrote: I wasn't arguing against anyone...not even Checkov. I didn't deny his evidence. It was just funny to imagine Akai behind a mask...especially one with pink hair, squinty eyes, and a smiley face....

It's difficult for me to see it. And maybe it was difficult for me to see because I've never seen Akai dress in disguise before. I'm going rofl if I see it....

It's just...totally random for me, based on how I've seen Akai's character. Am I trying to have proof, and prove anyone wrong? No, because there are so many possibilities with this character, that I can't deny anything here.
So you're simply trolling around by dismissing the theory with nothing more to say. Thanks, that clears up everything.
soratothamax wrote: Wow....well at least I can be influenced to believe someone else's logic.
Do you even know what you wrote here? If I was "influenced" by your logic, I wouldn't have said it, because then it had meant that I agree with you (which I'm not). Are you saying that your logic is greater than mine, therefore I should be influenced by it? (that's the way it seems to me).
You think there is logic in "everyone is influenced by everything" but this is simply an insult towards so many artists who came out with original ideas of their own. You basically say "their ideas were influenced by experience and ideas of other people" You simply dismiss the originallity of everyone, and that is plainly stupid. If people didn't come up with ideas of their own, with no relation to the influence given by other people, the world would have been much more different than it is today.
People who search for the logic are doing it with SCIENCE, and influence is the LAST thing but scientific.
Your way of thinking isn't logical, it's simply the easier way to escape the logical way. It's so easy to say "he was influenced" or "due to his experience blablabla..."
soratothamax wrote: you on the other hand...well, who knows maybe you can too....
Which is a proof that you're simply trying to mock me now and ignoring the facts. Are you that desperate?
I agree with Chekhov, isn't that a proof that I can agree with someone's LOGIC? Unlike your "logic", I can find sense in what Chekhov says.
soratothamax wrote: And maybe those ten year olds were taught by their peers that it was cool...maybe they played too many video games....or watched too many crime stuff as younger children...or maybe someone supplied them with the weapon...maybe someone's parents did it before...so many possibilities....
You're just amazing, to think that you would go so far even for this scenario and actually try to explain it with your so called logic.
People don't become crazy due to influence. Mental diseases are passed in the genes and make people mentally ill. Some people simply born the way they do due to their genes.
soratothamax wrote: Everytime you bring up another scenario about influence, it just proves they were influenced.... ::)
That's the way you interpreted what I said? You failed miserly to understand the point, then. I never said the scenario was about influence. I asked you if you can explain it with your oh powerful unknown force you call influence. No one said they were influenced. You simply again went in the way of "they were influenced" so easy to say something like that, ha? You are the type of people which science prove to be wrong in their views.
soratothamax wrote: I don't understand why you are arguing with me when I never said anything to contradict anyone here. All I said, is I can't see it happening because it just seems....out-of-character for Akai for me.
seriously...?  ::)
It's like saying "I don't want to argue, but you are wrong"
It IS an arguement then. If you don't want people to reply back to what you say, then don't post at all. If you don't want to argue with what people are telling you, then don't reply, just leave the thread, and then there won't be an arguement.
If you have an opinion and you post it in a forum, then be ready to defend your opinion. Why is it OOC for Akai? ("for me" isn't what will make it credible). If you are simply saying your opinion, and don't intend to defend it, sorry, but as I said, you're just trolling.
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Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by soratothamax »

So you're simply trolling around by dismissing the theory with nothing more to say. Thanks, that clears up everything.
Well, maybe you should consider why I'm dismissing the theory. It isn't because of the evidence, it's just strange to imagine.....like imagining Genta kissing Ayumi....or Gin dressing up as Vermouth.... ;D

Do you even know what you wrote here? If I was "influenced" by your logic, I wouldn't have said it, because then it had meant that I agree with you (which I'm not). Are you saying that your logic is greater than mine, therefore I should be influenced by it? (that's the way it seems to me).
You think there is logic in "everyone is influenced by everything" but this is simply an insult towards so many artists who came out with original ideas of their own. You basically say "their ideas were influenced by experience and ideas of other people" You simply dismiss the originallity of everyone, and that is plainly stupid. If people didn't come up with ideas of their own, with no relation to the influence given by other people, the world would have been much more different than it is today.
People who search for the logic are doing it with SCIENCE, and influence is the LAST thing but scientific.
Your way of thinking isn't logical, it's simply the easier way to escape the logical way. It's so easy to say "he was influenced" or "due to his experience blablabla..."
Actually your theory is LESS scientific. My second major is a science: psychology. Scientists believe everything is influenced and began with something, even human life. Many biologists believe in evolution, which is started from influences in the atmosphere. The genes we have are also triggered by something....or an influence. Otherwise, there is no meaning for the word....

No one is as original as they want to be. INFLUENCE is the essence of science my friend. Maybe you should re-evaluate that. People don't like to hear the truth of science and logic because it sounds less than happy. Yes, it'd be an idealistic world to say we are all original, when realistically, we are all influenced by each other. It is why there is such thing as growing and development, main scientific terms.

your views are more idealistic, and more optimistic about human life than scientific and realistic.....which you can believe if you want to.

I don't know one artist that wasn't influenced by an artist before them. Michael Jackson wasn't just original. Elvis Presley, his father, Diana Ross, Stevie Wonder influenced him and his music. Heck, his dancing wasn't his own. He was inspired and influenced by a magician. If there is no influence there is no inspiration. Lady Gaga got her style from Madonna. Mozart was influenced by his father and his teacher, who was als a famous musician, who was influenced by classical music during the day of ancient Greece to creat the pieces.
Which is a proof that you're simply trying to mock me now and ignoring the facts. Are you that desperate?
I agree with Chekhov, isn't that a proof that I can agree with someone's LOGIC? Unlike your "logic", I can find sense in what Chekhov says.
You have just proved yourself to be influenced by Chekhov's logic. And his facts appeal to you, which influenced you to believe them. I wasn't trying to prove anything. I just thought the idea was funny....it is strange for me to imagine Akai behind the face of Okiya. Are you forcing me to imagine that without a laugh? If so....it'd be very hard to do...

which I don't think you'd be able to stop me from laughing even if Akai was Okiya. It's that strange for me and random.
You're just amazing, to think that you would go so far even for this scenario and actually try to explain it with your so called logic.
People don't become crazy due to influence. Mental diseases are passed in the genes and make people mentally ill. Some people simply born the way they do due to their genes.
Mental diseases are resulted from something too. Meaning influenced by something. If it is passed down, that means it CAME from somewhere, meaning from a family member. That means that gene has influenced the body of it's ancestors.

That's the way you interpreted what I said? You failed miserly to understand the point, then. I never said the scenario was about influence. I asked you if you can explain it with your oh powerful unknown force you call influence. No one said they were influenced. You simply again went in the way of "they were influenced" so easy to say something like that, ha? You are the type of people which science prove to be wrong in their views.
Well, that's the difference between me and you. I don't view your views as WRONG but as different. Far more of optimist than I am, I would say....but most of the scenarios you have told me to explain with my "logic" can be explained by me. And you would listen and respond, showing me that you are influenced by what I say, even if you don't agree with it. It influenced you to react. Science proves that there is no right or wrong answer. It is what humans will accept or won't within their societies.
seriously...?  ::)
It's like saying "I don't want to argue, but you are wrong"
It IS an arguement then. If you don't want people to reply back to what you say, then don't post at all. If you don't want to argue with what people are telling you, then don't reply, just leave the thread, and then there won't be an arguement.
If you have an opinion and you post it in a forum, then be ready to defend your opinion. Why is it OOC for Akai? ("for me" isn't what will make it credible). If you are simply saying your opinion, and don't intend to defend it, sorry, but as I said, you're just trolling.
I never said anyone was wrong, did I? I just said it's strange to see akai as Okiya EVEN IF IT WAS TRUE. I am not saying anyone is wrong....but no one is right either, because none of us are Gosho. So just about anyone's theory could be right.....even if that person doesn't feel the need to prove it.

I defend my opinion by saying it: Akai being Okiya behind the mask is HILARIOUSLY random for me.

If I say I'm going to stab soragirl for stealing my name, will you get mad? ;D

No.....if I say I like all the episodes with Akai....but I hate the episodes with Okiya because he's just weird....do I need to prove myself? ::) What if I thought he was a weird dude because he never opens his eyes? Will you get mad then and argue back?

Especially with someone who wasn't even arguing with you? This disucussion was between me and Chekov.

However, if you really want to know why I feel it is weird for Akai being behind the mask of Okiya is because Akai didn't come off as a guy who smiled a lot, and cooks, and squints without opening his eyes....To see Akai impersonating this type of characters seems so far-fetched to me, based on how Akai came off to me, that I would laugh my head off.

Akai seems to be this intense person, who is just like Gin in demeanor, only he's the good guy. He seems like a loner, like he hates to talk, and he seems to be an "in-your-face" type of dude. Plus, I have never seen Akai disguise himself before, and would be interested to know why he chose such an alias.....a squinty-eyed dude, with pink hair, and cooks......it would still be laughable when he takes off the "mask.... ;D

IF this theory is proven to be true by Gosho.
Last edited by soratothamax on March 11th, 2010, 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by Soragirl6 »

soratothamax wrote:
So you're simply trolling around by dismissing the theory with nothing more to say. Thanks, that clears up everything.
Well, maybe you should consider why I'm dismissing the theory. It isn't because of the evidence, it's just strange to imagine.....like imagining Genta kissing Ayumi....or Gin dressing up as Vermouth.... ;D

Do you even know what you wrote here? If I was "influenced" by your logic, I wouldn't have said it, because then it had meant that I agree with you (which I'm not). Are you saying that your logic is greater than mine, therefore I should be influenced by it? (that's the way it seems to me).
You think there is logic in "everyone is influenced by everything" but this is simply an insult towards so many artists who came out with original ideas of their own. You basically say "their ideas were influenced by experience and ideas of other people" You simply dismiss the originallity of everyone, and that is plainly stupid. If people didn't come up with ideas of their own, with no relation to the influence given by other people, the world would have been much more different than it is today.
People who search for the logic are doing it with SCIENCE, and influence is the LAST thing but scientific.
Your way of thinking isn't logical, it's simply the easier way to escape the logical way. It's so easy to say "he was influenced" or "due to his experience blablabla..."
Actually your theory is LESS scientific. My second major is a science: psychology. Scientists believe everything is influenced and began with something, even human life. Many biologists believe in evolution, which is started from influences in the atmosphere. The genes we have are also triggered by something....or an influence. Otherwise, there is no meaning for the word....

No one is as original as they want to be. INFLUENCE is the essence of science my friend. Maybe you should re-evaluate that. People don't like to hear the truth of science and logic because it sounds less than happy. Yes, it'd be an idealistic world to say we are all original, when realistically, we are all influenced by each other. It is why there is such thing as growing and development, main scientific terms.

your views are more idealistic, and more optimistic about human life than scientific and realistic.....which you can believe if you want to.

I don't know one artist that wasn't influenced by an artist before them. Michael Jackson wasn't just original. Elvis Presley, his father, Diana Ross, Stevie Wonder influenced him and his music. Heck, his dancing wasn't his own. He was inspired and influenced by a magician. If there is no influence there is no inspiration. Lady Gaga got her style from Madonna. Mozart was influenced by his father and his teacher, who was als a famous musician, who was influenced by classical music during the day of ancient Greece to creat the pieces.
Which is a proof that you're simply trying to mock me now and ignoring the facts. Are you that desperate?
I agree with Chekhov, isn't that a proof that I can agree with someone's LOGIC? Unlike your "logic", I can find sense in what Chekhov says.
You have just proved yourself to be influenced by Chekhov's logic. And his facts appeal to you, which influenced you to believe them. I wasn't trying to prove anything. I just thought the idea was funny....it is strange for me to imagine Akai behind the face of Okiya. Are you forcing me to imagine that without a laugh? If so....it'd be very hard to do...

which I don't think you'd be able to stop me from laughing even if Akai was Okiya. It's that strange for me and random.
You're just amazing, to think that you would go so far even for this scenario and actually try to explain it with your so called logic.
People don't become crazy due to influence. Mental diseases are passed in the genes and make people mentally ill. Some people simply born the way they do due to their genes.
Mental diseases are resulted from something too. Meaning influenced by something. If it is passed down, that means it CAME from somewhere, meaning from a family member. That means that gene has influenced the body of it's ancestors.

That's the way you interpreted what I said? You failed miserly to understand the point, then. I never said the scenario was about influence. I asked you if you can explain it with your oh powerful unknown force you call influence. No one said they were influenced. You simply again went in the way of "they were influenced" so easy to say something like that, ha? You are the type of people which science prove to be wrong in their views.
Well, that's the difference between me and you. I don't view your views as WRONG but as different. Far more of optimist than I am, I would say....but most of the scenarios you have told me to explain with my "logic" can be explained by me. And you would listen and respond, showing me that you are influenced by what I say, even if you don't agree with it. It influenced you to react. Science proves that there is no right or wrong answer. It is what humans will accept or won't within their societies.
seriously...?  ::)
It's like saying "I don't want to argue, but you are wrong"
It IS an arguement then. If you don't want people to reply back to what you say, then don't post at all. If you don't want to argue with what people are telling you, then don't reply, just leave the thread, and then there won't be an arguement.
If you have an opinion and you post it in a forum, then be ready to defend your opinion. Why is it OOC for Akai? ("for me" isn't what will make it credible). If you are simply saying your opinion, and don't intend to defend it, sorry, but as I said, you're just trolling.
I never said anyone was wrong, did I? I just said it's strange to see akai as Okiya EVEN IF IT WAS TRUE. I am not saying anyone is wrong....but no one is right either, because none of us are Gosho. So just about anyone's theory could be right.....even if that person doesn't feel the need to prove it.

I defend my opinion by saying it: Akai being Okiya behind the mask is HILARIOUSLY random for me.

If I say I'm going to stab soragirl for stealing my name, will you get mad? ;D

No.....if I say I like all the episodes with Akai....but I hate the episodes with Okiya because he's just weird....do I need to prove myself? ::) What if I thought he was a weird dude because he never opens his eyes? Will you get mad then and argue back?

Especially with someone who wasn't even arguing with you? This disucussion was between me and Chekov.

However, if you really want to know why I feel it is weird for Akai being behind the mask of Okiya is because Akai didn't come off as a guy who smiled a lot, and cooks, and squints without opening his eyes....To see Akai impersonating this type of characters seems so far-fetched to me, based on how Akai came off to me, that I would laugh my head off.

Akai seems to be this intense person, who is just like Gin in demeanor, only he's the good guy. He seems like a loner, like he hates to talk, and he seems to be an "in-your-face" type of dude. Plus, I have never seen Akai disguise himself before, and would be interested to know why he chose such an alias.....a squinty-eyed dude, with pink hair, and cooks......it would still be laughable when he takes off the "mask.... ;D

IF this theory is proven to be true by Gosho.
Seriously, Kor, you just proved Soratothemax's point about influences....genetics are and can be the influence on a person, and artists in this world have never been unique....its just a world full of rip-offs of other artists that people forgot about....and I wouldn't take Akai seriously if he was Okiya. He seems way too intense and deep of a character to put on a stupid mask and whig. He's just too cool to do it. That is too out of the water.  Gin as vermouth......AHHH!!!!! I have the image in my head!!!!!....and now I'm scarred for life.....thanks soratothemax for torturing me and putting me in the hospital, whose name I stole.....  :P   ;D
1+1=2
genetics of mental disorder + girls=doing something insane
Last edited by Soragirl6 on March 12th, 2010, 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by Chekhov MacGuffin »

soratothamax wrote: My second major is a science: psychology. Scientists believe everything is influenced and began with something, even human life. Many biologists believe in evolution, which is started from influences in the atmosphere. The genes we have are also triggered by something....or an influence. Otherwise, there is no meaning for the word....

No one is as original as they want to be. INFLUENCE is the essence of science my friend. Maybe you should re-evaluate that. People don't like to hear the truth of science and logic because it sounds less than happy. ...

..Science proves that there is no right or wrong answer. It is what humans will accept or won't within their societies.
I'm... I'm simply appalled. WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN
Last edited by Chekhov MacGuffin on June 8th, 2010, 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by soratothamax »

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
soratothamax wrote: My second major is a science: psychology. Scientists believe everything is influenced and began with something, even human life. Many biologists believe in evolution, which is started from influences in the atmosphere. The genes we have are also triggered by something....or an influence. Otherwise, there is no meaning for the word....

No one is as original as they want to be. INFLUENCE is the essence of science my friend. Maybe you should re-evaluate that. People don't like to hear the truth of science and logic because it sounds less than happy. ...

..Science proves that there is no right or wrong answer. It is what humans will accept or won't within their societies.
I'm... I'm simply appalled. WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN
yes, science can be appalling....

One thing I also don't understand from Gosho......if Akai was Okiya...why would Gosho go through all the trouble to develop Okiya as a character just to unmask him as Akai?

I mean on regular cases, we don't get to know those characters beyond the cases, then they become nobodies, and so no one cares anymore if they are disguised.

But if Okiya was akai....Okiya would seem less than a character...he wouldn't be a character...so all that development regarding Okiya would be gone...because he'd be AKai....
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Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by Chekhov MacGuffin »

soratothamax wrote:
Spoiler:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
soratothamax wrote: My second major is a science: psychology. Scientists believe everything is influenced and began with something, even human life. Many biologists believe in evolution, which is started from influences in the atmosphere. The genes we have are also triggered by something....or an influence. Otherwise, there is no meaning for the word....

No one is as original as they want to be. INFLUENCE is the essence of science my friend. Maybe you should re-evaluate that. People don't like to hear the truth of science and logic because it sounds less than happy. ...

..Science proves that there is no right or wrong answer. It is what humans will accept or won't within their societies.
I'm... I'm simply appalled. WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN
yes, science can be appalling....

One thing I also don't understand from Gosho......if Akai was Okiya...why would Gosho go through all the trouble to develop Okiya as a character just to unmask him as Akai?

I mean on regular cases, we don't get to know those characters beyond the cases, then they become nobodies, and so no one cares anymore if they are disguised.

But if Okiya was akai....Okiya would seem less than a character...he wouldn't be a character...so all that development regarding Okiya would be gone...because he'd be AKai....
Answered here. Reply there. I think you misunderstood why I was appalled... Your science fail was atrocious. Don't most psychology majors or even minors require a pass in biology as a requirement?
Last edited by Chekhov MacGuffin on June 8th, 2010, 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by Detective Prince »

Okiya Subaru = Kaito Kid
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Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by Kor »

Detective Prince wrote: Okiya Subaru = Kaito Kid
episode 515  :P (not canon but I doubt Gosho is dumb enough to let the anime make such an error if it's true)
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Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by mangaluva »

Detective Prince wrote: Okiya Subaru = Kaito Kid
He just wanted to say that he's living with Shinichi.
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Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by shinichi1977 »

Shoot, just missing out a few weeks and I'm being blown by almost all possible means of propaganda. Of course, let us not blame anyone just say we can't define truth only because none of us is the creator.

Second of all, when we only learn a part of someone's character no one can disprove that someone else can be the same person. I have a few disagreements with others but the "catfight" I witnessed was beyond my imagination :d

The scientific method is anything but just influence, were that true, Galilei would have renounced his works and we still would think our galaxy is not heliocentric. The other thing that bugged me, when we say oh I don't need facts to prove my opinion, since it's not even a theory. The instrument of progression in science is discourse, the battle of ideas anyone who was part of a polemic club knows that he or she needs to make the solid base for the argument not rarely by starting to refute your own arguments looking for holes. Stating something on the other hand without any base, generalize and relativize, that's science too, it's called pseudoscience and its instrument is propaganda, it's enough to listen to any Kitsune News commentator.

What really happened and happens is the exact mirror, by which I mean trying to locate Kir and making the confusion around the hospital was planned the same way as was Raiha Falls. You can say that it is my opinion, that the Sherlock-quote was "installed" to recognize each other because I can only guess they did prepared for a case of an impostor, as it was mentioned here on the forum a few days ago
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