What's the identity of Rum?

[DCUniverseAficionado]

While I've generally enjoyed how the story played out, Gosho didn't have to do it the way he did. He could have hypothetically, after the Vermouth arc, constructed a penultimate arc where the boss's phone number set off events that would have hurtled the series towards a final confrontation. This arc could have established whatever the Kir arc did about Akai's character and directly continued the mysteries brought up in the Vermouth arc, followed by the final arc where the series finally concludes. DC could have realistically been over by now if that's the path that Gosho chose to take.

...someone could argue that Gosho should have written the end of the Kir arc differently so that it led into the final arc. After all, now that the FBI and the CIA were established as Conan's allies, we could get down to business (and I'm sure many thought that Clash of Red and Black was a sign that the end was near). And sure, that might have been possible.

There were a couple points after the Vermouth arc finale that people thought would be the beginning of the end for DC (either when they first heard that such a story was happening or during it):

Clash of Red and Black (585–590, 595–609/491–504)
Holmes' Revelation (743–752/616–621)
Mystery Train (818–824/701–704)
Scarlet Showdown (894–898/781–783)

I think people started to be less surprised after every BO confrontation that didn't seem to lead directly to a series climax and finale, but Shinichi's confession? Such an event, in the longest case in DC history, not leading to the end, I think, was the most surprising.

Also, if Gosho had something as far along in the series as the Rum arc and Mary planned out from the start, he could've merged a bunch of the plot cases with the pure mystery cases, and introduced a bunch of important characters much earlier than they actually were—this would've reduced the series in length by a bunch. For instance, we could've been where we are right now in the story nearly ten years ago, or even further (depending on how much merging and cutting there would be). Characters like Hidemi/Rena/Kir and Shuichi could've been introduced in the first 175 files (Intro/Conan arc), characters like Naeko could've been introduced during the Sherry/Haibara arc (176–237/129–175) and their romances addressed in the Vermouth arc (including Ninzaburo and Sumiko getting together after the former nearly married Miwako, for instance; Sumiko was introduced before most of the police characters, other than Juzo, Kiyonaga, and Sango, and the resemblance between her and Miwako was apparent from the get-go). So, conceivably, we could've reached a point where DC seemed to be winding down around the time of the Kir arc (November 2004–September 2007).

However, ultimately I think that what Gosho has done with the story feels natural and organic, even if the pacing was sometimes a little too slow (see the one and half year of no plot mid-Bourbon arc, although in retrospect that's likely when Gosho planned everything that we've seen unfold over the past four years).The way I see it is, while the end of the Vermouth arc/cellphone arc might have appeared to signal that the end was near, it was still far too early for Conan to realistically take down the BO. At that point in time, the only allies he had were Haibara, Heiji, Agasa, and his parents, more or less. That isn't a team that could realistically take down a massive international crime syndicate. The introduction of agencies like the CIA and the FBI was basically a must, so that Conan could have actual qualified allies with the tools, information, and ability to plausibly confront the BO. The Vermouth arc did the work of introducing the FBI agents, but by the end of it they and Conan were far from allies; heck, Akai thought Conan was an "annoying" kid. The Kir arc was immensely important for establishing the partnership between Conan and the FBI, and while Gosho was at it he threw in the CIA, which provided Conan with more allies while also emphasizing just how epic the struggle against the BO was (as MeiTantei mentioned above). And, as already mentioned, it was when the two Silver Bullets of DC actually united and became allies.

I'd say that Shinichi/Conan and the FBI not being partners in the Vermouth arc is what led to Vermouth getting away, so until they did, I really don't think Shinichi/Conan could've taken on the BO without them. Look at his encounter with Gin and Vodka after Itakura's death (380–383/309–311)—the only reason he got out of that was because Gin assumed the one after them wasn't a midget (adult short as a kid). Having the FBI, a CIA agent and an NPA Security Bureau Agent on allied terms is an immense improvement for his chances in taking the BO down.

One would expect just the CIA to be involved in something like this, but the FBI being there means that the BO really has the attention of the U.S. intelligence community. The PSB of Tokyo Metro PD (Scotch) and the Security Bureau of the NPA (Rei/Tooru) are aware of the BO, as well. Beyond these four agencies, we don't know which other agencies are aware of the BO.

However, this neglects another point, I think: BO plot progression does not constitute all of DC. If anything, Gosho seems to treat the romance subplots of the series as just as important as the BO plot, regardless of whether people like then or not. So, to get a good sense of how close to the end we were, it would be a good idea to look to how far the romance plots had progressed. The Bourbon arc did serious heavy-lifting in this area. Consider, that in its duration:
-Takagi and Sato became an official couple on a first-name basis with each other, with Takagi considering marriage
-Shiratori and Takagi's rivalry, one that predated even the Vermouth arc, finally ended, with Shiratori finding his own partner
-Shinichi confessed to Ran
-Hattori kind-of confessed to Kazuha

That's important progress for the main three couples of the series, and the way I think of it, as strong a sign for an approaching end as any plot development.

Again, the second one could've happened earlier in DC, but it happened during the Bourbon arc, after Wataru and Miwako first kissed, so I suppose Gosho considered that more appropriate.

The fact that Gosho has really put the after-effects of the third on hold likely means that said after-effects will lead to a major change (final suspicion arc, most likely).

Heiji is no longer dense—in his last appearance, he was pretty much ready to confess in an unremarkable place (931–935). Kazuha also showed herself ready to confess, albeit under certain circumstances (781–786/652–655). My favorite scenario for confession between them is a case in Paris, with Kid involved (and him disguising as Kazuha, since she's one of the only characters he hasn't disguised as), or a case with Kid at a landmark locale in Japan.

So, in terms of romance, in the Bourbon arc, we've either had resolutions or big developments that will likely lead to resolutions.

Besides this, all sorts of arguments can be made for the Bourbon arc's important contributions, including laying an arc-long foundation for Ran's next (and probably final) suspicion arc, starting subtly with the Shinigami case and becoming progressively more explicit (look no further than Yuusaku's Cold Case). It is kind of hard to argue this point too strongly since so many of the Bourbon arc's mysteries have yet to be resolved, and unlike the still unresolved mysteries of the Vermouth arc, their relevance to the plot is not immediately obvious (though as I said before, this isn't grounds to assume that they are pointless). Stuff like the purpose of Shiho's fake death is unclear, but somehow I doubt that Gosho ended the Sherry hunt (a major development in and of itself) for no reason; and, if he did, that's that: the Sherry hunt is over, and that part of the plot can be concluded. I guess my point is that I just don't understand the thinking that says "Amuro is yet another spy" = "pointless seven years." I will concede that the Bourbon arc really was far too long; seven years is just excessive on any level, and even all of its relevant development can't justify its length.

Yes—just because something continues to remain unresolved doesn't mean it's pointless. And is it just me, or does no one seem to notice that the Sherry hunt (176–824/129–704) ended during the Bourbon arc (at least, for now, potentially)? That was a really long BO plot thread.

I think some thought there were too many similarities between elements of the Bourbon arc and elements of both the Vermouth (disguises) and Kir arcs (involvement of the family of government agent; character arc is named after is a spy), that the execution was inferior to that of those two arcs—especially the former—and that between 6 and 2/3rds years and 6 and 3/4ths years was not an acceptable length, considering the former two charges.

True—with some cutting and merging, Scarlet Showdown, and the arc, itself, could've ended in October 2011 (when Rei/Tooru made his official debut).

Since Rum is the second-in-command, it might finally be pretty plausible to say the end is near, as we are likely in the arc before the last; I don't think it'd make much narrative sense to go from having the BO's number 2 be an arc's primary threat to a lesser member. The next logical step after this is the boss himself.

And, just so this post is actually on topic in some shape or form, I wonder what's up with Kuroda. He kind of seems to have been forgotten in the midst of all this Kouji and Asaka stuff.

Vermouth was the boss' favorite—the next two arcs were about codenamed members of lesser rank than she, especially as far as Hidemi/Rena/Kir is concerned, though Rei/Tooru/Bourbon seems to have been able to blackmail her effectively. Maybe the next arc will be about Gin, and will finally answer the questions we've all been asking about him, and then the Boss arc will wrap everything up.

Hyoue hasn't appeared since the two cases that came out from December 2014 to March 2015 (913–920; Kawanakajima and Selfie Stick Murder), and hasn't even been mentioned since the beginning of the case that marked Gosho's return from ill health in July 2015 (925). Considering the current case, throwing him into the mix would be interesting... I'm still pretty sure that Hyoue Kuroda pre-coma and Hyoue Kuroda post-coma are not the same person (though getting background info about and even flashbacks to his past would help in finding out whether I'm falling for a red herring or not).

[MeiTanteixX]

Hyoue hasn't appeared since the two cases that came out from December 2014 to March 2015 (913–920; Kawanakajima and Selfie Stick Murder), and hasn't even been mentioned since the beginning of the case that marked Gosho's return from ill health in July 2015 (925). Considering the current case, throwing him into the mix would be interesting... I'm still pretty sure that Hyoue Kuroda pre-coma and Hyoue Kuroda post-coma are not the same person (though getting background info about and even flashbacks to his past would help in finding out whether I'm falling for a red herring or not).

Yeah, I'm also thinking that they might not be the same. That doesn't of course mean that he has to be Rum...
If Akai's father would return, he's an available option as well... but we'll have to wait and see.

[DCUniverseAficionado]

Yeah, I'm also thinking that they might not be the same. That doesn't of course mean that he has to be Rum...
If Akai's father would return, he's an available option as well... but we'll have to wait and see.

In terms of being Rum, Hyoue is as much of a red herring as Kansuke is. Just look at File 915/Episode 811, having them look so menacing in that one panel/few seconds of animation.

My first choice for post-coma Hyoue's identity is Kiritake Akai (if that's the correct interpretation of the kanji for the name of the father on Shukichi's marriage registration form from 945), but the issue is that he apparently died at some point after Masumi's birth, most likely within a year (her birth year lines up with Koji's death year... 17 years ago... hmm). Hyoue got in a coma ten years ago—what happened to Kiritake, in the six to seven years between his apparent death and Hyoue's coma? Did Kiritake end up comatose, when he apparently died, and someone decided to have him replace Hyoue, once the opportunity presented itself? Did Kiritake wake up before this and have a say in the matter? Was Kiritake a BO agent (not Rum)?

[Kudo Shinchi]

@DCUniverseAficionado Well, of course if Gosho had planned out the entire series from the beginning and wanted to end DC as efficiently as possible, the series would have ended ages ago. But I think it's obvious that neither holds true. Everything that happened in the last two arcs could have happened earlier; in my hypotheticals I just assumed that everything up to the Vermouth/cellphone arc remained unchanged and worked from there.

Vermouth was the boss' favorite—the next two arcs were about codenamed members of lesser rank than she, especially as far as Hidemi/Rena/Kir is concerned, though Rei/Tooru/Bourbon seems to have been able to blackmail her effectively.

Good point. Still, I feel an arc focused on the BO's number two is more significant than one on the boss's favorite, especially since we only found out about Vermouth's special status in literally the last episode of her arc, if I remember correctly. In contrast, Rum's importance was announced at the outset, as a way of immediately clarifying the magnitude of his threat. If a next arc were to focus on someone beneath him, it would probably feel a bit odd and more like a regression that undermines the new arc's setup, since the new threat would feel like a step-down to whatever preceded it (although I'll acknowledge that this is more or less what happened during the transition from Vermouth to Kir). And based on precedent, I'd say an arc with Gin as the central threat is unlikely, since up to now Gosho has always constructed his plot-arcs around new characters. But you never know.

Kuroda is almost certainly a red herring; I just wonder how Gosho is going to keep pushing him as a potential Rum candidate. The photo we have of Asaka is blurry/unclear, but it doesn't really seem to resemble Kuroda at all. I mean, sure, that doesn't have to be an issue (especially since Rum's apparently inconsistent appearance is a big part of his mystery) and Gosho could continue to present Kuroda as a person who could plausibly be Rum, but it feels weird to me. Kuroda has only appeared in two cases and the Rum arc has droned on without him. It kind of feels like Gosho is making his "red herring" status obvious by only half-heartedly tying him to the Rum plot. But it's entirely possible I'm speaking to soon (though to be honest I prefer the way Gosho is going about the Rum thing right now, it's more fresh than dwelling on yet another suspicious evil-looking person who could be a threat but actually isn't).

[MeiTanteixX]

Yeah, I'm also thinking that they might not be the same. That doesn't of course mean that he has to be Rum...
If Akai's father would return, he's an available option as well... but we'll have to wait and see.

In terms of being Rum, Hyoue is as much of a red herring as Kansuke is. Just look at File 915/Episode 811, having them look so menacing in that one panel/few seconds of animation.

My first choice for post-coma Hyoue's identity is Kiritake Akai (if that's the correct interpretation of the kanji for the name of the father on Shukichi's marriage registration form from 945), but the issue is that he apparently died at some point after Masumi's birth, most likely within a year (her birth year lines up with Koji's death year... 17 years ago... hmm). Hyoue got in a coma ten years ago—what happened to Kiritake, in the six to seven years between his apparent death and Hyoue's coma? Did Kiritake end up comatose, when he apparently died, and someone decided to have him replace Hyoue, once the opportunity presented itself? Did Kiritake wake up before this and have a say in the matter? Was Kiritake a BO agent (not Rum)?

Yeah, there's a lot of questions regarding the scenarios that could've taken place, but recently, the whole "CARASUMA" discussion has made me wary of the possibility that Rum is indeed from the Karasuma family, and that "Asaka" alias was used by subtracting "Rum" from the family name.... still the real question in that regard is if Karasuma Renya was supposed to be important at all...

[DCUniverseAficionado]

@DCUniverseAficionado Well, of course if Gosho had planned out the entire series from the beginning and wanted to end DC as efficiently as possible, the series would have ended ages ago. But I think it's obvious that neither holds true. Everything that happened in the last two arcs could have happened earlier; in my hypotheticals I just assumed that everything up to the Vermouth/cellphone arc remained unchanged and worked from there.

Yes—the Bourbon arc is by far the easiest to subject to hypothetical cutting and merging of its stories, given its 80 Case/277 File length.

Vermouth was the boss' favorite—the next two arcs were about codenamed members of lesser rank than she, especially as far as Hidemi/Rena/Kir is concerned, though Rei/Tooru/Bourbon seems to have been able to blackmail her effectively.

Good point. Still, I feel an arc focused on the BO's number two is more significant than one on the boss's favorite, especially since we only found out about Vermouth's special status in literally the last episode of her arc, if I remember correctly. In contrast, Rum's importance was announced at the outset, as a way of immediately clarifying the magnitude of his threat. If a next arc were to focus on someone beneath him, it would probably feel a bit odd and more like a regression that undermines the new arc's setup, since the new threat would feel like a step-down to whatever preceded it (although I'll acknowledge that this is more or less what happened during the transition from Vermouth to Kir). And based on precedent, I'd say an arc with Gin as the central threat is unlikely, since up to now Gosho has always constructed his plot-arcs around new characters. But you never know.

The Rum arc will either be the second to last or the third to last arc of DC, as I see it. Gin is a high-ranking member who we still don't know much about—given anything could happen once Rum's identity is revealed, who knows what Gin will be doing by, say File 1000? I think he deserves an arc of his own, or at least a case or cases to reveal truths about him, as he's been a constant presence and threat throughout the series. The boss is the literal shadowman, but Gin? He's quite distinctive. Number two to high-ranking isn't as much of a drop as boss' favorite to regular codenamed member.

Kuroda is almost certainly a red herring; I just wonder how Gosho is going to keep pushing him as a potential Rum candidate. The photo we have of Asaka is blurry/unclear, but it doesn't really seem to resemble Kuroda at all. I mean, sure, that doesn't have to be an issue (especially since Rum's apparently inconsistent appearance is a big part of his mystery) and Gosho could continue to present Kuroda as a person who could plausibly be Rum, but it feels weird to me. Kuroda has only appeared in two cases and the Rum arc has droned on without him. It kind of feels like Gosho is making his "red herring" status obvious by only half-heartedly tying him to the Rum plot. But it's entirely possible I'm speaking to soon (though to be honest I prefer the way Gosho is going about the Rum thing right now, it's more fresh than dwelling on yet another suspicious evil-looking person who could be a threat but actually isn't).

Gosho has replaced Kiyonaga with him, so we'll have plenty of opportunities to see him around. I'd say we're overdue a big police case (last one was Wataru's kidnapping—804–808/681–683)—that'd be a big opportunity to expand our knowledge of him.

Yeah, there's a lot of questions regarding the scenarios that could've taken place, but recently, the whole "CARASUMA" discussion has made me wary of the possibility that Rum is indeed from the Karasuma family, and that "Asaka" alias was used by subtracting "Rum" from the family name.... still the real question in that regard is if Karasuma Renya was supposed to be important at all...

Yeah—maybe both Shinichi/Conan and Shuichi read Koji's hint wrong.

[Themaninarmor]

I agree. I've liked all the arcs in DC, and never really agreed that even one of them was "unimportant."

yes, i agree with that and all explanations from @DCUniverseAficionado, @MeiTanteixX, and @Kudo Shinchi are interesting too.

About kuroda, i agree with

Yeah, I'm also thinking that they might not be the same. That doesn't of course mean that he has to be Rum...

but what makes me confused is the reason of matsumoto's replacement. I never suspecting Matsumoto as an enemy or die later because the last photo in "lemonade tea case" where his daughter and her husband married again 3 years later, matsumoto is there. (of course if gosho hadn't forgotten). If gosho want to use police as alliance for conan, matsumoto is the right man because conan was already had connection with him. But gosho choose to replace him with some new, mysterious, and unknown background character. So there is another reason behind the replacement of matsumoto and it will make the possibility of the police dept acting as enemy higher or gosho wanted to create a new arc which one of the high ranking police is killed by BO (that means kuroda will be BO target like Domon "the politician in kir arc"). Of course i have to wait then 'till the clear explanation of matsumoto's replacement. Oh yeah for akai's father i still thinking that he is one of BO's scientist for 3 simple reason and for "who is RUM?"
i have no idea but my feeling said not Kuroda. Maybe "Carasuma..!?"
Sha sha sha

IYWTKW
lemonade tea case file 078-080 volume 8 episode (sorry it was banned in my country)

[DCUniverseAficionado]

what makes me confused is the reason of matsumoto's replacement. I never suspecting Matsumoto as an enemy or die later because the last photo in "lemonade tea case" where his daughter and her husband married again 3 years later, matsumoto is there. (of course if gosho hadn't forgotten). If gosho want to use police as alliance for conan, matsumoto is the right man because conan was already had connection with him. But gosho choose to replace him with some new, mysterious, and unknown background character. So there is another reason behind the replacement of matsumoto and it will make the possibility of the police dept acting as enemy higher or gosho wanted to create a new arc which one of the high ranking police is killed by BO (that means kuroda will be BO target like Domon "the politician in kir arc"). Of course i have to wait then 'till the clear explanation of matsumoto's replacement. Oh yeah for akai's father i still thinking that he is one of BO's scientist for 3 simple reason and for "who is RUM?"
i have no idea but my feeling said not Kuroda. Maybe "Carasuma..!?"

Hyoue is from the NPA. Gosho, through a postcard, told us Rei/Tooru/Bourbon is an agent of the NPA's Security Bureau. That, I'd say, has at least something to do with it.

[Uchiha Shadow]

Regarding Kuroda and Amuro, I originally thought Kuroda was Amuro's superior, but that's not really needed, I think they just know each other, and at some point Amuro told Kuroda about Conan, as for Kuroda being Akai's father, I like that theory, but I don't know how Gosho will work it out.

[DCUniverseAficionado]

as for Kuroda being Akai's father, I like that theory, but I don't know how Gosho will work it out.

Post-coma Hyoue showing up in front of Shuichi/Subaru, Shukichi, Masumi or Mary would at least begin to point us in the right direction, in terms of this theory. All the better if Gosho has him show up in the current case.

[MeiTanteixX]

as for Kuroda being Akai's father, I like that theory, but I don't know how Gosho will work it out.

Post-coma Hyoue showing up in front of Shuichi/Subaru, Shukichi, Masumi or Mary would at least begin to point us in the right direction, in terms of this theory. All the better if Gosho has him show up in the current case.

True, but as for this case, I personally would like for Kogoro to shine for once... I'm asking for too much though...

[DCUniverseAficionado]

as for Kuroda being Akai's father, I like that theory, but I don't know how Gosho will work it out.

Post-coma Hyoue showing up in front of Shuichi/Subaru, Shukichi, Masumi or Mary would at least begin to point us in the right direction, in terms of this theory. All the better if Gosho has him show up in the current case.

True, but as for this case, I personally would like for Kogoro to shine for once... I'm asking for too much though...

I think the Vermouth arc was the last time he solved a case on his own. He and Shinichi/Conan seem to be in sync, so far.

[Themaninarmor]

Hyoue is from the NPA. Gosho, through a postcard, told us Rei/Tooru/Bourbon is an agent of the NPA's Security Bureau. That, I'd say, has at least something to do with it.

yes, it is possible NPA's job is to maintain general standart and policies. Still in national emergencies or large-scale disasters the agency is authorized to take command of prefectural police forces. But there isn't big riot and emergency state in police (the thing that happening is only romance between police officers sha sha sha). Thats why kuroda replaced matsumoto is little strange for me. So i thought that kuroda maybe not member of NPA again after the comatose and transferred to police department. But its better to wait till he show up again sha sha sha.

[MeiTanteixX]

I think the Vermouth arc was the last time he solved a case on his own. He and Shinichi/Conan seem to be in sync, so far.

even worse, I was asking for him getting involved in the plot in some way... would be quite interesting if Kogoro got his own kind of suspicion arc in regards to the existence of BO as he investigates the Kouji case!

[DCUniverseAficionado]

I think the Vermouth arc was the last time he solved a case on his own. He and Shinichi/Conan seem to be in sync, so far.

even worse, I was asking for him getting involved in the plot in some way... would be quite interesting if Kogoro got his own kind of suspicion arc in regards to the existence of BO as he investigates the Kouji case!

Hopefully a personal tie to the BO will eventually be revealed (family, etc.), and that will get him competent and involved.