Okiya Subaru's True Identity

[shinichi1977]

Posted from an other topic, but related:

We have a saying: A horse has 4 legs yet it still can trip. It should have hit me sooner, I think I know when Okiya Subaru was born, totally excluding him being Bourbon.

After Vermouth has acquired where Ai lives at the same time with the FBI, shortly after the dock incident and Shiho refusing FBI protection, I assume Akai Shuichi stood true to his word and did not let "that browned haired girl" to see him, hence not being the time. I also think he had no knowledge of the confrontation between Shinichi and Vermouth in the forest, therefore he had every reason to believe she will try again, possibly as someone else in disguise so to ensure the best protection he needed an alias. Mizunashi Rena was still investigated as an acquittance of Vermouth, and not as a NOC, hence no basis to speculate, that she could act as a mole.

If Bourbon has similar information or train of thought, it would not be unnatural to copy this method and appear as Scar Akai, to possibly infiltrate the FBI, gather information on how much they know about the organization and Sherry, and if they still are in contact with Akai Shuichi.

[acerola21]

I've finally bothered to read the back story on Char Aznable on Wikipedia - and lo and behold, Char Aznable and Casval Rem Deikun used to be two complete strangers!  Apparently they looked practically identical, save their eye colors - eventually, they met and became friends of sorts, and a mix up happened and Char died as Casval, and Casval went on to assume Char's identity ever since.  So just because Akai and Okiya are named after Char Aznable doesn't mean that they're the same person!

The Okiya =/= Akai possibility just got bigger, he he.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I've finally bothered to read the back story on Char Aznable on Wikipedia - and lo and behold, Char Aznable and Casval Rem Deikun used to be two complete strangers!  Apparently they looked practically identical, save their eye colors - eventually, they met and became friends of sorts, and a mix up happened and Char died as Casval, and Casval went on to assume Char's identity ever since.  So just because Akai and Okiya are named after Char Aznable doesn't mean that they're the same person!

The Okiya =/= Akai possibility just got bigger, he he.

Not quite. Akai Shuuichi is named after the adult Char Aznable (real name Casval Rem Deikun), not the lookalike dead child Casval "stole" the name Char Aznable from. Akai and Okiya are both named after the same character - the red colored mobile suit pilot

[acerola21]

I've finally bothered to read the back story on Char Aznable on Wikipedia - and lo and behold, Char Aznable and Casval Rem Deikun used to be two complete strangers!  Apparently they looked practically identical, save their eye colors - eventually, they met and became friends of sorts, and a mix up happened and Char died as Casval, and Casval went on to assume Char's identity ever since.  So just because Akai and Okiya are named after Char Aznable doesn't mean that they're the same person!

The Okiya =/= Akai possibility just got bigger, he he.

Not quite. Akai Shuuichi is named after the adult Char Aznable (real name Casval Rem Deikun), not the lookalike dead child Casval "stole" the name Char Aznable from. Akai and Okiya, are both named after the same character - the red colored mobile suit pilot

I guess so - so you're saying that Okiya is named after Casval because adult Char's real identity is Casval, just like how Akai's real identity is Okiya.

It just bothers me that Akai's been living as Okiya - so Akai has two cars and two phones, has been constantly switching between speech patterns, wore wigs and glasses back and forth, learned to cook well, took college classes to become an electrical engineer on top of being an FBI agent for who knows how long, and Jodie never ever knew about it despite being his ex-girlfriend, since she doesn't recognize Okiya when she bumps into him.  And since Akai can't access his bank account now, I'm guessing that he has another bank under Okiya's name, since he has the money to pay for college and phones and all - which means that Akai must have been Okiya for quite some time.  Then how in the world does James or Jodie (especially Jodie) not know about Okiya?  They've been working together for over five years, apparently.

And Akai isn't an actor or anything - you say that Akai and Okiya have similar mannerisms, but for me they seem really different.  I mean, can you imagine Akai being good at cooking?  Or Akai constantly using polite Japanese?  And never, ever slipping back to his speech mannerisms, not even accidentally?  Sure they both constantly stick their hands in their pockets, but so does Shinichi, Kogoro, Heiji, etc. - it's considered "cool" in Japanese culture - and fashion-wise they seem to have different tastes, where Akai prefers rock-and-roll-ish clothes with lots of black, while Okiya wears more homey clothes with more brown in it.

At this point, I have several issues with the Okiya=Akai theory - and the one evidence that made me doubt my Okiya=/=Akai theory was the Char Aznable reference, and now I can explain it away.  True, maybe Akai is named after Casval as Char and Okiya after Casval, but it's also possible that Gosho meant to have Akai and Okiya as two separate people.  Everyone seems to think that Okiya is 100% Akai now, but at this point I have huge doubts, and right now, with the Char Aznable evidence weakened, I'd say that I'm fairly confident that Okiya isn't Akai.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

It just bothers me that Akai's been living as Okiya - so Akai has two cars and two phones, has been constantly switching between speech patterns, wore wigs and glasses back and forth, learned to cook well, took college classes to become an electrical engineer on top of being an FBI agent for who knows how long, and Jodie never ever knew about it despite being his ex-girlfriend, since she doesn't recognize Okiya when she bumps into him.  And since Akai can't access his bank account now, I'm guessing that he has another bank under Okiya's name, since he has the money to pay for college and phones and all - which means that Akai must have been Okiya for quite some time.  Then how in the world does James or Jodie (especially Jodie) not know about Okiya?  They've been working together for over five years, apparently.

And Akai isn't an actor or anything - you say that Akai and Okiya have similar mannerisms, but for me they seem really different.  I mean, can you imagine Akai being good at cooking?  Or Akai constantly using polite Japanese?  And never, ever slipping back to his speech mannerisms, not even accidentally?  Sure they both constantly stick their hands in their pockets, but so does Shinichi, Kogoro, Heiji, etc. - it's considered "cool" in Japanese culture - and fashion-wise they seem to have different tastes, where Akai prefers rock-and-roll-ish clothes with lots of black, while Okiya wears more homey clothes with more brown in it.

You forgot quitting smoking. I don't think Akai disguised at Okiya prior to his fake death plan. I honestly think he simply was efficient and quickly obtained the necessary things for his disguise.

Some of these things Akai may already have known about before he became Okiya, like the cooking and probably a little of the electrical engineering. Some young men actually can cook and no, I don't find it surprising Akai might know how to. Regarding the electrical engineering, it's possible Akai might have a professor friend at the university who will have "hired" him as a favor without knowing anything like how James Black called in a favor from the director of Haido Central Hospital who owed him one. Also Akai can fudge a little, like Vermouth fudged when she took up Araide's role as a doctor. Grad student level, especially the lower level, isn't hard to fake if you know undergrad level info on the subject. I was mistaken for a graduate student on several occasions by other grad students while in high school.
It isn't that hard to change how politely you speak, try it in your natural language and with a little practice you can keep it up without too much effort. Or at least I can. Also, Okiya's way of speaking isn't completely different from Akai's; Okiya likes being cryptic and and drops the occasional metaphor/saying/quote like Akai tended to. You're wrong about the clothes. They both like these high collar jacket getups and Okiya does wear some black as Ayumi pointed out during the red, white, yellow arson case. It's kind of hard to evaluate since in most of Akai's appearances he wears the same thing. Akai definitely doesn't wear rock and rollish clothes unless you count the beanie. See below

Spoiler:

High collared shirt with no tie, jacket, slacks. Semi-formal if you ask me. I'm ignoring the beanie

Spoiler:

High collared shirt with no tie, jacket, slacks. Semi-formal if you ask me.

The rest of it, like the car, the phone, the bank account, the clothes, and the apartment lease aren't that difficult to obtain on short notice. Someone efficient who knows what they are doing can get all those things in a day. (O.K well the paperwork on the car depending on where you get the car from and actually moving into the apartment might take longer than a day but you can get a good chunk of it done.)  Akai didn't have to be Okiya beforehand, he just had to scramble a bit to get it together after faking his death. Also, Akai probably had the benefit of at least some preprepared materials that the FBI and the CIA intelligence agency might keep for agents that go undercover like fake IDs and driving licenses.
As to why Jodie didn't recognize Okiya, she is in the middle of a mysterious reappearing dead boyfriend crisis which causes her to not pay as much attention as she should exemplified by her completely ignoring Agasa and Ai in the first chapter of the Teito bank heist.

Of course, if you don't think Okiya is Akai you are going to have to explain who he is and why Conan seems to know about where he lives before meeting him, why he gives Ai the vibes, and how he recognizes the MIB, and why Conan trusts him enough to let him into his house...

Later Edit: If you want to be picky about Akai's name origin, he is named after a combination of Char's nickname "red comet" and his voice actor Ikeda Shuuichi. The dead kid who was named "Char Aznable" has no relation to either of those two sources, so saying Akai could be named after the dead kid makes no sense. It is clear that Akai's name origin can only refer to one Casval Rem Deikun from whom Okiya's name derives as well.

[acerola21]

Later Edit: If you want to be picky about Akai's name origin, he is named after a combination of Char's nickname "red comet" and his voice actor Ikeda Shuuichi. The dead kid who was named "Char Aznable" has no relation to either of those two sources, so saying Akai could be named after the dead kid makes no sense. It is clear that Akai's name origin can only refer to one Casval Rem Deikun from whom Okiya's name derives as well.

Akai appears in File 287, way before Hidemi's hospital cases, so it's possible that he wasn't thinking deeply about the name references . . . though I admit that it's against Gosho's style, hmm.  Maybe something about Okiya's name includes a pun on "not"?  æ²– can mean "off", apparently, and 矢 means arrow - so "off arrow", as in "off target"?  The pun's too obvious for Gosho if that's the case, but . . . hmm.  Lol word play definitely isn't my strong point.

Some young men actually can cook

Of course I'm not saying that men can't cook (I'm female and I can't cook), I'm saying that Akai doesn't seem like the type of person to be good at cooking.  I'm sure that the real Akai can cook somewhat, but to be good at cooking?  Also, Okiya likes nature, and likes to water plants - does Akai seem like that type of person?  Can you imagine Akai getting up every morning to water plants?  Or being good with kids?

I'm sure that Akai's capable of a good disguise, but faking his personality is a completely different story.  He's not an actor, or anything - and Okiya just seems way too different from Akai.

It isn't that hard to change how politely you speak, try it in your natural language and with a little practice you can keep it up without too much effort.

I think it's because I'm familiar with Japanese that I can feel the difference between Akai's and Okiya's speech patterns.  You don't just add "desu" at the end of every sentence to speak polite Japanese - even when Akai uses more polite Japanese, he still uses a lot of casual shortenings (for example, saying -ndesu instead of -nodesu when conjugating), while Okiya doesn't at all.  Akai's speech is more casual in general, even when he does use more polite forms.

Also, Okiya's way of speaking isn't completely different from Akai's; Okiya likes being cryptic and and drops the occasional metaphor/saying/quote like Akai tended to.

Are you talking about both Akai and Okiya referring to the B.O. as wolves?  Vermouth does that, too - why else would she call Shinichi the "silver bullet"?  It's clear that Vermouth refers the B.O. as werewolves, for whatever reason.  Can you give me other metaphors/sayings/quotes that both Akai and Okiya mention that can only be explained if Akai = Okiya?

You're wrong about the clothes. They both like these high collar jacket getups and Okiya does wear some black as Ayumi pointed out during the red, white, yellow arson case. It's kind of hard to evaluate since in most of Akai's appearances he wears the same thing. Akai definitely doesn't wear rock and rollish clothes unless you count the beanie.

A lot of people like to wear high collar jacket getups in DC.  Of course Okiya wears black, too, but he combines black with softer colors, unlike Akai who combines black with harsher colors.  I say that Akai's clothes are rock-and-roll-ish, because of the jacket that he wears, which is cut shorter than most other blazers that other characters wear, and the amount of black that he prefers to wear.  I think it's pretty obvious that Akai and Okiya have fairly different tastes in clothes, especially from the pictures that you've provided.

As to why Jodie didn't recognize Okiya, she is in the middle of a mysterious reappearing dead boyfriend crisis which causes her to not pay as much attention as she should exemplified by her completely ignoring Agasa and Ai in the first chapter of the Teito bank heist.

I'm saying that the scene shows that Akai hasn't been Okiya for very long - if he has, then Jodie would likely know.  Yet, the Red, Yellow and White case mentioned Okiya watering the plants, and it seems to suggest that he's been living in the apartment for a while - and no one's mentioned that Okiya's new into the neighborhood, or anything.  The story isn't adding up.

Of course, if you don't think Okiya is Akai you are going to have to explain who he is and why Conan seems to know about where he lives before meeting him, why he gives Ai the vibes, and how he recognizes the MIB, and why Conan trusts him enough to let him into his house...

I think you know one of my theories about that.  I admit that I do have many holes in my theory, but I am fairly sure that Okiya isn't Akai, and that Okiya has been directly or indirectly been working with Akai in the past.  Things just start making sense when I assume that Okiya=Bourbon or some other former B.O. member and ScarAkai=Akai, like why ScarAkai would want to hide his right hand's fingerprints, why Okiya says that the wolves lost their easy prey rather than killing another wolf, what Akai meant when he talks about fishing, why Akai says that it'll be easy to capture Kusuda if the FBI watches him in numbers, why Hidemi tells Gin that she just quit being an announcer - unless, you can explain them all to me in terms of the Okiya=Akai and ScarAkai=Bourbon theory?

EDIT:  Sorry for adding this bit so late, this one just hit me when I was considering the Kusuda case.  

Perhaps Akai, just like Char, believes that ends justify the means.  Char believes that it's okay to nuke the Earth for the sake of forcing the human race to move into space - to make humans "evolve into Newtypes".

Like I mentioned above, it's highly out of character for Akai to say that it'll be easy to capture Kusuda if the FBI watches him in numbers and expect to be able to catch Kusuda for sure - and Gosho has Conan stare at Akai in that scene.  If Akai really wanted to catch Kusuda, I'm sure that he could have come up with a better plan.  He even expected Kusuda to escape, since he had his car ready when Kusuda escaped.  It's likely that Akai wanted to confront the B.O. at this point - he even smiles when he suggests to "catch the stray black wolf who comes to pick up his stray pack member." Remember, his goal always was to catch Gin.  Gin's Akai's "lover."  Gin's the one who shot Akemi.  So what does this mean?  Akai must be aware that he was putting the hospital in danger - but like Char, Akai has a bigger goal - to take down the B.O. - and he feels justified in making some necessary sacrifices along the way.  Akai does not want people to be involved unnecessarily, and that's probably why he prevented James from telling the hospital director the truth, but when it becomes necessary Akai chooses taking down the B.O. over others' safety.

Okiya does the opposite.  Okiya prevents Ai from falling, he essentially saves Jodie when he bumps into her, he criticizes Conan on his method to save ScarAkai, perhaps because Conan is putting the store employees in danger by making them save Akai, or perhaps because Conan is putting himself in danger like you suggest - and maybe Okiya is named after Casval because Casval was a better person than his adult counterpart, Char?  Maybe Gosho's making some commentary about how Casval truly became Char when he stopped protecting others (since the real Char "is taken in by Gihren Zabi's propaganda, and against his father's wishes sets off for officer training school" so I'm guessing that the real Char wasn't a pleasant person)?  I'm going to have to research on what Casval was like before he became Char, but either way I'm sure that Akai didn't suggest that obviously faulty plan to catch Kusuda.

[Kor]

Later Edit: If you want to be picky about Akai's name origin, he is named after a combination of Char's nickname "red comet" and his voice actor Ikeda Shuuichi. The dead kid who was named "Char Aznable" has no relation to either of those two sources, so saying Akai could be named after the dead kid makes no sense. It is clear that Akai's name origin can only refer to one Casval Rem Deikun from whom Okiya's name derives as well.

Akai appears in File 287, way before Hidemi's hospital cases, so it's possible that he wasn't thinking deeply about the name references . . . though I admit that it's against Gosho's style, hmm.  Maybe something about Okiya's name includes a pun on "not"?  æ²– can mean "off", apparently, and 矢 means arrow - so "off arrow", as in "off target"?  The pun's too obvious for Gosho if that's the case, but . . . hmm.  Lol word play definitely isn't my strong point.

Some young men actually can cook

Of course I'm not saying that men can't cook (I'm female and I can't cook), I'm saying that Akai doesn't seem like the type of person to be good at cooking.  I'm sure that the real Akai can cook somewhat, but to be good at cooking?  Also, Okiya likes nature, and likes to water plants - does Akai seem like that type of person?  Can you imagine Akai getting up every morning to water plants?  Or being good with kids?

I'm sure that Akai's capable of a good disguise, but faking his personality is a completely different story.  He's not an actor, or anything - and Okiya just seems way too different from Akai.

It isn't that hard to change how politely you speak, try it in your natural language and with a little practice you can keep it up without too much effort.

I think it's because I'm familiar with Japanese that I can feel the difference between Akai's and Okiya's speech patterns.  You don't just add "desu" at the end of every sentence to speak polite Japanese - even when Akai uses more polite Japanese, he still uses a lot of casual shortenings (for example, saying -ndesu instead of -nodesu when conjugating), while Okiya doesn't at all.  Akai's speech is more casual in general, even when he does use more polite forms.

Also, Okiya's way of speaking isn't completely different from Akai's; Okiya likes being cryptic and and drops the occasional metaphor/saying/quote like Akai tended to.

Are you talking about both Akai and Okiya referring to the B.O. as wolves?  Vermouth does that, too - why else would she call Shinichi the "silver bullet"?  It's clear that Vermouth refers the B.O. as werewolves, for whatever reason.  Can you give me other metaphors/sayings/quotes that both Akai and Okiya mention that can only be explained if Akai = Okiya?

You're wrong about the clothes. They both like these high collar jacket getups and Okiya does wear some black as Ayumi pointed out during the red, white, yellow arson case. It's kind of hard to evaluate since in most of Akai's appearances he wears the same thing. Akai definitely doesn't wear rock and rollish clothes unless you count the beanie.

A lot of people like to wear high collar jacket getups in DC.  Of course Okiya wears black, too, but he combines black with softer colors, unlike Akai who combines black with harsher colors.  I say that Akai's clothes are rock-and-roll-ish, because of the jacket that he wears, which is cut shorter than most other blazers that other characters wear, and the amount of black that he prefers to wear.  I think it's pretty obvious that Akai and Okiya have fairly different tastes in clothes, especially from the pictures that you've provided.

As to why Jodie didn't recognize Okiya, she is in the middle of a mysterious reappearing dead boyfriend crisis which causes her to not pay as much attention as she should exemplified by her completely ignoring Agasa and Ai in the first chapter of the Teito bank heist.

I'm saying that the scene shows that Akai hasn't been Okiya for very long - if he has, then Jodie would likely know.  Yet, the Red, Yellow and White case mentioned Okiya watering the plants, and it seems to suggest that he's been living in the apartment for a while - and no one's mentioned that Okiya's new into the neighborhood, or anything.  The story isn't adding up.

Of course, if you don't think Okiya is Akai you are going to have to explain who he is and why Conan seems to know about where he lives before meeting him, why he gives Ai the vibes, and how he recognizes the MIB, and why Conan trusts him enough to let him into his house...

I think you know one of my theories about that.  I admit that I do have many holes in my theory, but I am fairly sure that Okiya isn't Akai, and that Okiya has been directly or indirectly been working with Akai in the past.  Things just start making sense when I assume that Okiya=Bourbon or some other former B.O. member and ScarAkai=Akai, like why ScarAkai would want to hide his right hand's fingerprints, why Okiya says that the wolves lost their easy prey rather than killing another wolf, what Akai meant when he talks about fishing, why Akai says that it'll be easy to capture Kusuda if the FBI watches him in numbers, why Hidemi tells Gin that she just quit being an announcer - unless, you can explain them all to me in terms of the Okiya=Akai and ScarAkai=Bourbon theory?

EDIT:  Sorry for adding this bit so late, this one just hit me when I was considering the Kusuda case.  

Perhaps Akai, just like Char, believes that ends justify the means.  Char believes that it's okay to nuke the Earth for the sake of forcing the human race to move into space - to make humans "evolve into Newtypes".

Like I mentioned above, it's highly out of character for Akai to say that it'll be easy to capture Kusuda if the FBI watches him in numbers and expect to be able to catch Kusuda for sure - and Gosho has Conan stare at Akai in that scene.  If Akai really wanted to catch Kusuda, I'm sure that he could have come up with a better plan.  He even expected Kusuda to escape, since he had his car ready when Kusuda escaped.  It's likely that Akai wanted to confront the B.O. at this point - he even smiles when he suggests to "catch the stray black wolf who comes to pick up his stray pack member." Remember, his goal always was to catch Gin.  Gin's Akai's "lover."  Gin's the one who shot Akemi.  So what does this mean?  Akai must be aware that he was putting the hospital in danger - but like Char, Akai has a bigger goal - to take down the B.O. - and he feels justified in making some necessary sacrifices along the way.  Akai does not want people to be involved unnecessarily, and that's probably why he prevented James from telling the hospital director the truth, but when it becomes necessary Akai chooses taking down the B.O. over others' safety.

Okiya does the opposite.  Okiya prevents Ai from falling, he essentially saves Jodie when he bumps into her, he criticizes Conan on his method to save ScarAkai, perhaps because Conan is putting the store employees in danger by making them save Akai, or perhaps because Conan is putting himself in danger like you suggest - and maybe Okiya is named after Casval because Casval was a better person than his adult counterpart, Char?  Maybe Gosho's making some commentary about how Casval truly became Char when he stopped protecting others (since the real Char "is taken in by Gihren Zabi's propaganda, and against his father's wishes sets off for officer training school" so I'm guessing that the real Char wasn't a pleasant person)?  I'm going to have to research on what Casval was like before he became Char, but either way I'm sure that Akai didn't suggest that obviously faulty plan to catch Kusuda.

I'm to lazy to reply to every little thing, so I quoted the whole thing.

First of all - "he doesn't seem the type" is a bad arguement. I wear only black and I have a hair as long as Gin's. When one of the students in my college first saw me, he assumed I was a guitar rock player, while in fact for the longest time of my life, I'm a flute player who played mainly classical music. Why did he think I was a guitar player? Because I seemed like the type, and he could never thought I was actually a flute player.
So what if Akai isn't the type? If anything, it simply adds more to his disguise.

Next - remember that episode in "Friends" that some girl asked Joey where did he learn acting, and he replied "No no, you don't learn acting" which is quite the truth. Most of the now days actors in hollywood are either good looking people or people who had connections with the "right" people. It's true that you should learn a bit, but acting isn't the hardest job ever. You need to stay in character, naturally.

lastly, I just heard today that one of the vocalists in my mother's ensemble is also learns biology in the university. I'm a writer and a musician, and sometime in the future I want to start acting as well. Having more than one occupation or being good in more than one thing isn't so suspicious and is quite normal.

[acerola21]

First of all - "he doesn't seem the type" is a bad arguement. I wear only black and I have a hair as long as Gin's. When one of the students in my college first saw me, he assumed I was a guitar rock player, while in fact for the longest time of my life, I'm a flute player who played mainly classical music. Why did he think I was a guitar player? Because I seemed like the type, and he could never thought I was actually a flute player.
So what if Akai isn't the type? If anything, it simply adds more to his disguise.

Next - remember that episode in "Friends" that some girl asked Joey where did he learn acting, and he replied "No no, you don't learn acting" which is quite the truth. Most of the now days actors in hollywood are either good looking people or people who had connections with the "right" people. It's true that you should learn a bit, but acting isn't the hardest job ever. You need to stay in character, naturally.

It's not just Akai's appearance that's the problem, it's the personality that he's displayed, as well. 

As for the Friends reference - they're just implying that in Hollywood, it's okay to keep playing yourself as long as you're handsome/gorgeous/etc.  There are also serious actors in Hollywood, however, who wish to play people other than themselves, and for this you usually need training.  And this is DC, and to become a different person the character requires some showbiz background.  If it was so easy to act, then why can't Conan keep acting like a kid, especially around the kids?  Ran notices that Conan's exactly like Shinichi, because no matter how much Conan keeps acting, he can't completely hide his roots.  Even when Haibara acted as Conan, she was fairly herself, keeping her air of calm and dismissing Ran and Heiji easily, despite her wish for Conan's identity to stay hidden.  We've been exposed to Kid and Vermouth quite a bit in this series, but they're really the only people who can pull off acting as others to the extent that they do, perhaps Yukiko included, though we've never seen her act to that extent.  There's a reason why Mizunashi Rena turned out to be Hidemi - because she's not Vermouth and she can't hide her roots so well.  Her character has been consistent during her entire arc.  And since Akai's no actor in the DC world, it offers a valid reason why Okiya doesn't seem like Akai - because in the DC world, those good at acting as others had some experience in showbiz, and Akai has none that we know of.

lastly, I just heard today that one of the vocalists in my mother's ensemble is also learns biology in the university. I'm a writer and a musician, and sometime in the future I want to start acting as well. Having more than one occupation or being good in more than one thing isn't so suspicious and is quite normal.

I do admit that Okiya may be lying about his graduate school - hence why I didn't reply to the point in the post you've quoted.  I think that I have other points that support me.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Busy in real life so apologies for taking a while to respond.

Akai appears in File 287, way before Hidemi's hospital cases, so it's possible that he wasn't thinking deeply about the name references . . . though I admit that it's against Gosho's style, hmm.  Maybe something about Okiya's name includes a pun on "not"?  æ²– can mean "off", apparently, and 矢 means arrow - so "off arrow", as in "off target"?  The pun's too obvious for Gosho if that's the case, but . . . hmm.  Lol word play definitely isn't my strong point.

Not mine either but Gosho hasn't been hiding name puns too deeply most of the time. (ex. Yokomizo Sango - Sango can mean coral, Shinichi-one truth. etc.)

Of course I'm not saying that men can't cook (I'm female and I can't cook), I'm saying that Akai doesn't seem like the type of person to be good at cooking.  I'm sure that the real Akai can cook somewhat, but to be good at cooking?  Also, Okiya likes nature, and likes to water plants - does Akai seem like that type of person?  Can you imagine Akai getting up every morning to water plants?  Or being good with kids?
I'm sure that Akai's capable of a good disguise, but faking his personality is a completely different story.  He's not an actor, or anything - and Okiya just seems way too different from Akai.

As I said before, it isn't hard to fake one's personality when you have a good reason to. People do it all the time. (like 50% of highschoolers) Trying to say Akai shouldn't know how to cook, wouldn't like to water plants, or be with kids because so far he has been presented as a "cool-type" character so far is not a good argument. It isn't a good point because it relies on feelings and speculation rather than evidence because we don't know anything about Akai's life beyond when he is doing his job hunting the org. Besides, regarding the kid's one, Akai may be interested in learning more about Conan (and watching over Ai).

I think it's because I'm familiar with Japanese that I can feel the difference between Akai's and Okiya's speech patterns.  You don't just add "desu" at the end of every sentence to speak polite Japanese - even when Akai uses more polite Japanese, he still uses a lot of casual shortenings (for example, saying -ndesu instead of -nodesu when conjugating), while Okiya doesn't at all.  Akai's speech is more casual in general, even when he does use more polite forms.

The original point still stands. It isn't hard to practice speaking politely and then fake it. I am not as familiar with Japanese as you, but from listening to Japanese waiters, train conductors, sales people, etc. they appear to be using very polite Japanese and I'm certain they don't talk that way to when they are off work.

Are you talking about both Akai and Okiya referring to the B.O. as wolves?  Vermouth does that, too - why else would she call Shinichi the "silver bullet"?  It's clear that Vermouth refers the B.O. as werewolves, for whatever reason.  Can you give me other metaphors/sayings/quotes that both Akai and Okiya mention that can only be explained if Akai = Okiya?

True, you can't prove anything by pointing out they use common sayings. It's not a very strong point by itself, but when its coupled with many other shared habits like being left handed and looking alike, and dressing similarly you start to notice a pattern. I don't have enough time to go through and pull out references to when Akai uses sayings metaphors, etc. so if anyone else feels up to it...

A lot of people like to wear high collar jacket getups in DC.  Of course Okiya wears black, too, but he combines black with softer colors, unlike Akai who combines black with harsher colors.  I say that Akai's clothes are rock-and-roll-ish, because of the jacket that he wears, which is cut shorter than most other blazers that other characters wear, and the amount of black that he prefers to wear.  I think it's pretty obvious that Akai and Okiya have fairly different tastes in clothes, especially from the pictures that you've provided.

Each to his own I suppose. Your the first person to disagree with me about them dressing similarly. I'd also hazard your view is in the minority but I don't have a poll or anything.

I'm saying that the scene shows that Akai hasn't been Okiya for very long - if he has, then Jodie would likely know.  Yet, the Red, Yellow and White case mentioned Okiya watering the plants, and it seems to suggest that he's been living in the apartment for a while - and no one's mentioned that Okiya's new into the neighborhood, or anything.  The story isn't adding up.

I've said this a few other times, but when you water plants that haven't been watered in a while, they will perk up quickly and can change in appearance noticeably in a short period of time -hours to days depending on how bad of condition the plants are in. Ask someone who does gardening.

Things just start making sense when I assume that Okiya=Bourbon or some other former B.O. member and ScarAkai=Akai, like why ScarAkai would want to hide his right hand's fingerprints.

The same reason he stole someone's phone. Bourbon doesn't want anyone looking for him. Remember there are FBI agents in the store and that he was caught by someone's camera phone and he noticed it. The FBI could investigate if they asked people. Jodie has been shown to do a decent job of it with the hat and all.

why Okiya says that the wolves lost their easy prey rather than killing another wolf,

Okiya could be referring to himself - the real Akai, that they overlooked completely, but I am pretty sure he figured out the B.O. was gunning for their own man who looked like the already-taken-care-of target and thus was being ironic. Okiya said nothing about killing another wolf - you're twisting the actual quote by trying make a point of something he didn't say.

what Akai meant when he talks about fishing,

I don't have time to puzzle out what Akai was referring to by the long thread, but it might relate to Akai's suspicion/ knowledge Hidemi is a CIA agent and would be more useful in the organization as a mole. Not sure how this relates to Okiya. It certainly isn't about Akai wandering out in the open - which as I have stated is absolutely stupid and something Akai would not do.

why Akai says that it'll be easy to capture Kusuda if the FBI watches him in numbers,

If you read the line before, James black pointed out the possibility he may be a normal patient. Akai's point was basically that they'll watch him carefully (using large numbers of people) until Kusuda does something that rules out him being a normal patient. Nothing to do with Okiya

why Hidemi tells Gin that she just quit being an announcer

Think about it from the B.O.'s perspective. One of their NOC agents has been uncovered. Would someone in that position be able to continue their highly public role where their enemy (the FBI) knows where they are and can spy extensively on them? No. The risk of communications interception is too high. She has no choice but to go undercover. While we know the FBI isn't going to bother Hidemi, the B.O. don't know that.

Perhaps Akai, just like Char, believes that ends justify the means.

I don't think so.

Char believes that it's okay to nuke the Earth for the sake of forcing the human race to move into space - to make humans

Like I mentioned above, it's highly out of character for Akai to say that it'll be easy to capture Kusuda if the FBI watches him in numbers and expect to be able to catch Kusuda for sure - and Gosho has Conan stare at Akai in that scene.

I discussed why the FBI held off above.

If Akai really wanted to catch Kusuda, I'm sure that he could have come up with a better plan.  He even expected Kusuda to escape, since he had his car ready when Kusuda escaped.  It's likely that Akai wanted to confront the B.O. at this point - he even smiles when he suggests to "catch the stray black wolf who comes to pick up his stray pack member." Remember, his goal always was to catch Gin.  Gin's Akai's "lover."  Gin's the one who shot Akemi.  So what does this mean?  Akai must be aware that he was putting the hospital in danger - but like Char, Akai has a bigger goal - to take down the B.O. - and he feels justified in making some necessary sacrifices along the way.  Akai does not want people to be involved unnecessarily, and that's probably why he prevented James from telling the hospital director the truth, but when it becomes necessary Akai chooses taking down the B.O. over others' safety.

It was James' decision to keep Hidemi in the hospital and it was James' decision again not to tell the director. Akai isn't calling the shots in this setup. The hospital is being put at risk which is why the FBI constructed a cover story to explain why the hospital would allow the FBI to keep Hidemi, but again this wasn't Akai's decision to make.

Okiya does the opposite.  Okiya prevents Ai from falling, he essentially saves Jodie when he bumps into her, he criticizes Conan on his method to save ScarAkai, perhaps because Conan is putting the store employees in danger by making them save Akai, or perhaps because Conan is putting himself in danger like you suggest - and maybe Okiya is named after Casval because Casval was a better person than his adult counterpart, Char?  Maybe Gosho's making some commentary about how Casval truly became Char when he stopped protecting others (since the real Char "is taken in by Gihren Zabi's propaganda, and against his father's wishes sets off for officer training school" so I'm guessing that the real Char wasn't a pleasant person)?  I'm going to have to research on what Casval was like before he became Char, but either way I'm sure that Akai didn't suggest that obviously faulty plan to catch Kusuda.

I think the reason Okiya criticizes Conan on his plan is because Conan had to draw attention to himself to get the plan to work. People would remember a little boy started the rumors about the gift cards. The red Gundam pilot as a kid wasn't so nice either, he planted a gun and fake bombs in his "twin" counterpart's luggage to force him to switch out with him. Ultimately that lead to the twin dying in an accident.  

Edit: Beyond locating positive proof" i.e. evidence supporting your theory, if you want to solidify the theory that Okiya is Bourbon, then you need to also come up strong rebuttals for the following points:
1: Why does Conan trust Okiya if he a member of the B.O.? Conan lets Okiya get close to Haibara and lets him live next door where he will without a doubt learn Kudo Shinichi is still alive and be close enough to Haibara to know she is Sherry.
2: Why does Conan know about Okiya's address before he meets him?
3: Why would Ran seem to recognize Okiya from somewhere if he was Bourbon?
4: Why would Okiya, if he was Bourbon, A. help Conan solve mysteries and B. rescue Ai.
5a: If part of your explanation is that Bourbon is not loyal to the syndicate: then why is he not loyal and how did he manage to get away with being a traitor?
5b: If part of your explanation is that Bourbon is loyal to the Syndicate: then why hasn't he turned over Conan and Ai to someone else already considering he has enough info to prove Conan is connected to the FBI and knows of the Org, and that Haibara is Sherry?

[soratothamax]

I already had my theories here:
viewtopic.php?t=2894.45

[Soragirl6]

I already had my theories here:
viewtopic.php?t=2894.45

I couldn't agree with you more. Why would Akai show up being the master of disguise now, and the whole time he was in the Bo run around like he is himself? Like I said in the other board, it is possible, but I could not see Akai doing something like this. I also could not see him not telling Shinichi about it.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I already had my theories here:
http://forums.dctp.ws/viewtopic.php?t=2894.45

You're lacking in the hard evidence dept though.

He's not master of disguise, it's a wig/hairstyle change and some glasses. Anyone can pull that off... He also probably did tell Shinichi about his disguise, hence the Shinichi seemingly recognizing Okiya's address before he met him.

[soratothamax]

I already had my theories here:
viewtopic.php?t=2894.45

Your lacking in the hard evidence dept though.

He's not master of disguise, it's a wig/hairstyle change and some glasses. Anyone can pull that off... He also probably did tell Shinichi about his disguise, hence the Shinichi seemingly recognizing Okiya's address before he met him.

It's there now....

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I already had my theories here:
viewtopic.php?t=2894.45

Your lacking in the hard evidence dept though.

He's not master of disguise, it's a wig/hairstyle change and some glasses. Anyone can pull that off... He also probably did tell Shinichi about his disguise, hence the Shinichi seemingly recognizing Okiya's address before he met him.

It's there now....

Err, no it's not. You should cite some pages, and speculating about Akai's personality doesn't count. If you want to convince me Akai can't disguise as someone and can't or wouldn't want to act, please link some pages from the manga that would suggest that he lacks that particular ability. It would also help if you link to the exact post.

[soratothamax]

I already had my theories here:
viewtopic.php?t=2894.45

Your lacking in the hard evidence dept though.

He's not master of disguise, it's a wig/hairstyle change and some glasses. Anyone can pull that off... He also probably did tell Shinichi about his disguise, hence the Shinichi seemingly recognizing Okiya's address before he met him.

It's there now....

Err, no it's not. You should cite some pages, and speculating about Akai's personality doesn't count. If you want to convince me Akai can't disguise as someone and can't or wouldn't want to act, please link some pages from the manga that would suggest that he lacks that particular ability. It would also help if you link to the exact post.

Isn't it all speculating?  I'm not trying to convince anyone anything. I just can't see it.

It's weird in that way. I don't care to have evidence to prove this theory of mine. A sense of the character keeps itching at me telling me that Akai will show up out of nowhere when someone like Ai will be in danger and needing assistance, and then Akai who was watching from behind-the-scenes from out of nowhere, will fire a gun and ward off someone's plans...like he always does. Akai being Okiya....seems totally absurd for me.....it's not based on facts, but on analysis, which I think it sounds like everything here is....

Not that it is impossible, just totally out-of-character for Akai.

I apologize if you didn't get the exact post. I'll just explain my theory.

Akai doesn't seem like a guy who would disguise himself as a smiley, Sherlock Holmes fan, who can cook. I think Gosho is trying to put coincidences that he's like him, just like he did with Jodie and Vermouth, but they are going to be totally different people. I feel Okiya is good at deducing like Akai, and is made to replace him for the time being.

I don't think Scar Akai or Okiya are Akai. I think Akai is lurking behind-the-scenes. One of the two of them could be Bourbon. The other could be a cover-up by the CIA....

I think Okiya is pretending to be nice as a cover-up. I think Conan let him in his house to ward off suspicion and I think Conan wants to watch him. OR Conan might see that he is a good guy...

OR it could be Ai's long-lost dad. I think if Ai senses that someone knows her, she starts to get suspicious. How many people would pay attention to Ai? Not too many people know her....so I think it's safe to say anyone who she feels pays to close attention to her makes her paranoid...especially if they smell like they were part of the BO, which Akai was, so he probably carried their scent.

It's like smoking. you smoke so long you start to smell like smoke...Or you're around perfume for so long you smell like perfume. Somehow Okiya is related to the BO.