What's the identity of Rum?

[Uchiha Shadow]

A followup to my earlier post.
Still wasn't able to find that thing about Sakurako (it was in a German forum), but iirc, Gosho said something along the lines of liking her VA. Considering that her VA's name is Sakura, and Gosho is known for choosing voice actors, my speculation that she's merely a guest character that appears every once in a while, and there's nothing suspicious about her (and Gosho intended from the start to have Sakura voice Sakurako).

I know some people point out that she kinda realized Conan is way too smart for his age, but at the same case, the culprit also implied how both Conan and Heiji solved the mystery. Plus, in her other two case appearances, she didn't really go on with some sort of suspicion regarding Conan. She just went with the flow of the cases.
She's one of those characters that we know her background surprisingly well. We know about her single mother, and we know that later after she died, Sakurako also became a housekeeper. We know she was a year behind Chiba and Naeko. And we know she's continuing to work as a housekeeper or helper/agent. I really don't think there's any reason to be suspicious of her.

Exactly, and she's 23 years old, would the very cautious boss make a new member younger than most others the second in command? I don't think so, besides we know her background so when would be the time she joined the BO? It just doesn't make any sense to me that she would be RUM.

[PirateKing]

I still think Kuroda is connected to the secret police or something. Im hoping he is RUM but dont think he will be.

Sorry, but I think Kuroda is one of the "obvious possibility" characters that Gosho likes to introduce when a new BO member is on the move. We get information that Rum could be an old man with a fake eye, and voila, there appears a man exactly like the description. I'm ruling him out right away (though it could be a double bluff and I'll be eating my words).

You can see examples like this throughout the books. Vermouth is introduced as an American female with large breasts, and Jodie was the first "obvious possiblity". Then we had Bourbon who was supposed to be a man skilled at intelligence operations, and we are introduced to Okiya Subaru who solved cases easily and prefers to drink Bourbon. Another "obvious possiblity".

I know that the trend is becoming a little predictable and this is the right time to intoduce a double bluff, but I still think Kuroda being Rum is...too easy? Yeah.

[ThatLee4]

I still think Kuroda is connected to the secret police or something. Im hoping he is RUM but dont think he will be.

Sorry, but I think Kuroda is one of the "obvious possibility" characters that Gosho likes to introduce when a new BO member is on the move. We get information that Rum could be an old man with a fake eye, and voila, there appears a man exactly like the description. I'm ruling him out right away (though it could be a double bluff and I'll be eating my words).

You can see examples like this throughout the books. Vermouth is introduced as an American female with large breasts, and Jodie was the first "obvious possiblity". Then we had Bourbon who was supposed to be a man skilled at intelligence operations, and we are introduced to Okiya Subaru who solved cases easily and prefers to drink Bourbon. Another "obvious possiblity".

I know that the trend is becoming a little predictable and this is the right time to intoduce a double bluff, but I still think Kuroda being Rum is...too easy? Yeah.

Pirate king. I agree Kuroda is too obvious. But surely he is not just a normal character which will not be important to the BO investigation?

Even Jodie turnt out to be important after being a redherring and Okiya to a degree. Tho we sussed who he was from early.

This is why i included Kuroda as on the team to take down BO at the end.

What do you think will happen to him?

[PirateKing]

Sorry guys BTW about the spoliers

Pirate king. I agree Kuroda is too obvious. But surely he is not just a normal character which will not be important to the BO investigation?

Even Jodie turnt out to be important after being a redherring and Okiya to a degree. Tho we sussed who he was from early.

This is why i included Kuroda as on the team to take down BO at the end.

What do you think will happen to him?

Alright, this is purely speculation since we know very little about Kuroda

The fact that Kuroda was in a coma for ten years actually gives rise to a great number of theories. The real Kuroda could have died and this guy might be someone impersonating him, or Kuroda might have actually be a former BO member because Ai gets a reaction from him, and we know that Ai never gets a false positive.

Gut feeling is that Kuroda is one of the good guys, and could have a link to Ethan Hondou, which is why Ai gets that reaction to him. So I think he is an important character, just not Rum. The case during which Kuroda goes into a coma must also be really important, because he is highly valued by the entire police force. I mean, how can somebody be in a coma for ten years, get up and then immediately become Superintendent of Police?

So I think he was promoted for his valour during the case where he went into a coma (which I'm going to call coma-case from here on), the promotion was delayed by 10 years, and he got it immediately when he recovered. This points to the fact that the case must have been super important, and perhaps connected to the BO.

But there's also a second possibility about his promotion. What if he was going to be promoted immediately after his coma-case (meaning that the case itself has no hand in his promotion) but he fell into a coma soon after? Now that sounds fishy. You have this police officer who looks to be really smart and ruthless, about to be one of the top authorities in the city, and suddenly he has an accident and goes into a near-fatal coma.That smells like BO work to me.

So I think the chain of events is like this :

1. Kuroda is after the BO, has part evidence which he can use (possibly through an infiltrator, maybe Ethan Hondou) and he's waiting for the chance to become Superintendent so he can use his resources better.
2. BO gets wind of him getting too close, and they arrange for an accident to happen.
3. Kuroda goes into a coma from which he's unlikely to return, and all is safe.

But again, there's a major flaw in this theory. If the BO did make sure Kuroda fell into a coma, why didn't they silence him altogether? It would have been easy to send an assasin and finish him off in the dead of the night, but they didn't. So that's another loophole.

That's about where my theory stands. Yes, it's a house of cards. *sigh*

[ThatLee4]

Some intresting thoughts there on RUM.

Do you believw he is connected to Amuro and the secret police/zero, if he knows about the BO?

I mean normal police people do not just know about the BO.

But there is still the possibility he could be part of the BO.

[Uchiha Shadow]

Some intresting thoughts there on RUM.

Do you believw he is connected to Amuro and the secret police/zero, if he knows about the BO?

I mean normal police people do not just know about the BO.

But there is still the possibility he could be part of the BO.

Well, so far we're not sure, but if you want to check out the last post in page 4 of the Bourbon / Amuro Tohru's personality, history, and true allegiance thread, it talks about the true organization that he belongs to and how it's connected to the NPA, and Kuroda head about Conan there so they might be connected, however, I would find it interesting if Kuroda is just a normal police officer who knows about the BO and does his own investigations.

[Nemomon]

Alright, this is purely speculation since we know very little about Kuroda

The fact that Kuroda was in a coma for ten years actually gives rise to a great number of theories. The real Kuroda could have died and this guy might be someone impersonating him, or Kuroda might have actually be a former BO member because Ai gets a reaction from him, and we know that Ai never gets a false positive.

Gut feeling is that Kuroda is one of the good guys, and could have a link to Ethan Hondou, which is why Ai gets that reaction to him. So I think he is an important character, just not Rum. The case during which Kuroda goes into a coma must also be really important, because he is highly valued by the entire police force. I mean, how can somebody be in a coma for ten years, get up and then immediately become Superintendent of Police?

So I think he was promoted for his valour during the case where he went into a coma (which I'm going to call coma-case from here on), the promotion was delayed by 10 years, and he got it immediately when he recovered. This points to the fact that the case must have been super important, and perhaps connected to the BO.

But there's also a second possibility about his promotion. What if he was going to be promoted immediately after his coma-case (meaning that the case itself has no hand in his promotion) but he fell into a coma soon after? Now that sounds fishy. You have this police officer who looks to be really smart and ruthless, about to be one of the top authorities in the city, and suddenly he has an accident and goes into a near-fatal coma.That smells like BO work to me.

So I think the chain of events is like this :

1. Kuroda is after the BO, has part evidence which he can use (possibly through an infiltrator, maybe Ethan Hondou) and he's waiting for the chance to become Superintendent so he can use his resources better.
2. BO gets wind of him getting too close, and they arrange for an accident to happen.
3. Kuroda goes into a coma from which he's unlikely to return, and all is safe.

But again, there's a major flaw in this theory. If the BO did make sure Kuroda fell into a coma, why didn't they silence him altogether? It would have been easy to send an assasin and finish him off in the dead of the night, but they didn't. So that's another loophole.

That's about where my theory stands. Yes, it's a house of cards. *sigh*

Quite interesting things You have said. But what about the possibility that the BO made him the Superintendent? This is quite interesting why he was promoted to this position this soon. It could be that the BO helped him. There's another possibility, though. He wanted to investigate Conan, and he himself decided to move to Tokyo. The higher ups decided that he's too good to be a normal policeman, so they allowed him to move and additionally promoted him. The very unlikely scenario is that really nothing happened, but there was a free Superintendent seat, and there were nobody who would be enough good to take it, so they decided to give this position to Kuroda.

I'm not sure if Kuroda can be working against the BO. You are right that if they could have killed Kuroda when he was in coma... unless they didn't know where he is. Quite unlikely, but it could be possible that Kuroda was kept in a hideout, and the memories of him during the coma that are told us by the other policemen aren't the memories of what they personally witnessed, but what just they heard from someone (possibly Kuroda himself). Yui says he was kept in the police hospital, but who really knows...

I'm not sure if he can work against the BO, because he seems to be too open. The FBI (maybe except Jodie, but she's more chasing Vermouth than the BO itself), the CIA, the secret police - all of them are hidding somewhere, and definitely are not public persons. Or rather are not persons that easily can be found and killed. Kuroda became a Superintendent, so the BO will not have any troubles to find him (the police station) and kill him when it will be needed.

I think he might be from the BO (Gosho promised to feature some more agents), but not Rum. It could be that the BO caused his coma (even though he was their agent), and now he wants to take a revenge on the BO, and pretty much is independent like Vermouth. Of course the BO doesn't know that, and they consider Kuroda to be a loyal member.

[Kor]

A few points I'd like to reply to.

The fact that Kuroda was in a coma for ten years actually gives rise to a great number of theories. The real Kuroda could have died and this guy might be someone impersonating him, or Kuroda might have actually be a former BO member because Ai gets a reaction from him, and we know that Ai never gets a false positive.

We can't be absolutely certain that Ai "freaking out" at the end of that case is 100% a "BO feeling". Conan told her previously that this scary looking man kinda knows a lot about him, and Conan is pretty shocked too at the end, so she might also be a bit worried. I just feel like going to the conclusion it's Haibara's infamous "BO feeling" is a bit jumping the gun at this point.

Gut feeling is that Kuroda is one of the good guys, and could have a link to Ethan Hondou, which is why Ai gets that reaction to him.

Why Hondou? He was a CIA, and Kuroda is supposedly from the National Police Agency. Not sure those two have any reason to know each other.

I mean, how can somebody be in a coma for ten years, get up and then immediately become Superintendent of Police?

Nothing says he didn't have a similar rank (or even higher) before his accident. For all we know, he was actually demoted from his former position (whatever it was).

So I think he was promoted for his valour during the case where he went into a coma (which I'm going to call coma-case from here on), the promotion was delayed by 10 years, and he got it immediately when he recovered. This points to the fact that the case must have been super important, and perhaps connected to the BO.

But there's also a second possibility about his promotion. What if he was going to be promoted immediately after his coma-case (meaning that the case itself has no hand in his promotion) but he fell into a coma soon after? Now that sounds fishy. You have this police officer who looks to be really smart and ruthless, about to be one of the top authorities in the city, and suddenly he has an accident and goes into a near-fatal coma.That smells like BO work to me.

Yui says he was transferred from the National Police Agency. The NPA is actually different from the regular prefecture-type police we are used to be seeing, and their job is pretty different plus they have more access to more resources on national level (and it even includes assisting in national and international investigations). Kuroda wasn't just an inspector from some city.

From the Interpol website:

Japan’s National Police Agency (NPA) supervises and controls the police activities of 47 Prefectural Police Departments and the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department. The NPA is composed of 7,700 officials, comprising 1,900 police officers, 900 Imperial Guards and 4,900 civilians.

Even if he was transferred to become a chief in Nagano... it's still only Nagano, so I don't think he was really promoted.

The jury's still out on his quick transfer to Tokyo to become the new superintendent. That can be for many reasons. For example: Matsumoto maybe knew Kuroda and asked him to take the position. Or the NPA got him the position with the intention of placing him in Tokyo. Or if he's related to the BO after all, the BO managed to get him to that position. Or maybe it's just cause the script said so and Kuroda was conveniently transferred to Tokyo so he can continue to seem suspicious.

[Uchiha Shadow]

A few points I'd like to reply to.

The fact that Kuroda was in a coma for ten years actually gives rise to a great number of theories. The real Kuroda could have died and this guy might be someone impersonating him, or Kuroda might have actually be a former BO member because Ai gets a reaction from him, and we know that Ai never gets a false positive.

We can't be absolutely certain that Ai "freaking out" at the end of that case is 100% a "BO feeling". Conan told her previously that this scary looking man kinda knows a lot about him, and Conan is pretty shocked too at the end, so she might also be a bit worried. I just feel like going to the conclusion it's Haibara's infamous "BO feeling" is a bit jumping the gun at this point.

Yup, exactly what I've been saying on DCW, it's just like what happened with Sera in the Mystery Train arc, she was only scared it's not the BO sense, besides, if it really was then she would've told Conan and that's it for the arc.

Anyway, about Kuroda's accident being related to the BO, I can see that being the case, but I still think there is much more to it, him being replaced by someone else sounds like an interesting idea, and after that person took over his identity, he pretended to lose some of his memories because he didn't know them, that would also mean the person is probably BO, and at the same time, it could be that this whole coma thing doesn't have much importance and is just for making him suspicious, at this point I think that he's a good guy and might have some connections to Rei, but for now, we can just speculate since we don't have much info.

[Serinox]

Yup, exactly what I've been saying on DCW, it's just like what happened with Sera in the Mystery Train arc, she was only scared it's not the BO sense, besides, if it really was then she would've told Conan and that's it for the arc.

First of all: Haibara's BO sense in the Mystery Train was not false, she sensed someone from the BO, because there was somebody from the BO there: Vermouth was standing closely behind her.

Anyway, about the Kuroda scene though, I agree, it's not the BO sense. Crucially, it's lacking the typical heart beat SFX that usually accompany Haibara's BO sense, which makes me think she was just scared like Conan was. Also, she's usually more scared when she feels someone from the BO, in comparison to meeting Kuroda, judging from her facial expressions.

Spoiler: Pictures for comparison

File 800 (sensing Bourbon driving up from behind)

File 818

File 820

File 920

[Uchiha Shadow]

Yup, exactly what I've been saying on DCW, it's just like what happened with Sera in the Mystery Train arc, she was only scared it's not the BO sense, besides, if it really was then she would've told Conan and that's it for the arc.

First of all: Haibara's BO sense in the Mystery Train was not false, she sensed someone from the BO, because there was somebody from the BO there: Vermouth was standing closely behind her.

I still don't see how that was her reacting to Vermouth at all, it was not like that, it was clear that she didn't sense Vermouth or else she would've looked behind instead of just looking at Sera and saying: "This person..... Could it be..." it was clearly her reaction to Sera and not Vermouth who was behind them, and she was even surprised when Sera shouted: "Who is it!?" which means she didn't notice it, unless, your saying that she felt the BO sense from Vermouth but thought it was coming from Sera? But when she first felt it on the train she knew it was from behind, so I still don't see how it was her BO sense.

[PirateKing]

Why Hondou? He was a CIA, and Kuroda is supposedly from the National Police Agency. Not sure those two have any reason to know each other.

Hondou is just a stab in the dark, there's nothing at all to show they're related. According to my theory of Kuroda having some sort of evidence against the BO, he could have been in contact with an infiltrator within the BO itself. So as far as timeline goes, the only infiltrator (that we know of) at that time (10 years ago, before he went into a coma) was Ethan Hondou. I'm curious, do we know when exactly Ethan started his infiltration into the BO? I tried to look it up in the DC wiki, but it doesn't state it there.

Yui says he was transferred from the National Police Agency. The NPA is actually different from the regular prefecture-type police we are used to be seeing, and their job is pretty different plus they have more access to more resources on national level (and it even includes assisting in national and international investigations). Kuroda wasn't just an inspector from some city.

Oh, then my bad. So the NPA holds authority over the regular police? Still, I think it's too easy that Kuroda gets into the Superintendent's position just after he wakes up from a decade long coma. They've chosen him over candidates like Megure who has probably closed more cases than anyone in the department. Kuroda either has an excellent record or excellent contacts.

Anyway, can we really believe that Rum has only one eye? I mean, when you look at it, you've got one fact for certain : Rum is only made of rumours. People are conflicted over what he looks like, what he sounds like or if he uses body substitutes. If Rum really tries so hard to make sure that he stays a rumour, why would the fact that he has one eye be leaked outside? How can information about a character's distinctive facial characteristic be believed if said character has never shown his face? So obviously, since nobody knows what he looks like, the only way BO members could have learnt about the loss of his eye is by reading about whatever accident took it. From that, we can understand that this particular fact (loss of Rum's eye) has never been verified by sight. It's just what people have read about.

To me, it looks like Rum leaked false info to eliminate him from possible suspects. Say the lower ranking BO members suspect a person X of being Rum. Nevermind if he is a man, a woman, or an old man, people are only going to give him a second look if he's got one eye. So even if the real Rum himself walks past the BO members, they're not going to suspect him, because he's got two good eyes. It's a good way to misdirect people.

Talking outside the DC world, it looks a lot like Gosho himself is saying : "Rum only has one eye, so try reading all 900+ chapters and figure out the guy with the fake eye" and we're tripping over ourselves, trying to find a guy with a prosthetic eye, while Rum actually passes unnoticed between pages.

It's only a theory based on absolutely zero evidence, I'm afraid. Just read it with a grain of salt.

[Kor]

Anyway, can we really believe that Rum has only one eye? I mean, when you look at it, you've got one fact for certain : Rum is only made of rumours. People are conflicted over what he looks like, what he sounds like or if he uses body substitutes. If Rum really tries so hard to make sure that he stays a rumour, why would the fact that he has one eye be leaked outside? How can information about a character's distinctive facial characteristic be believed if said character has never shown his face? So obviously, since nobody knows what he looks like, the only way BO members could have learnt about the loss of his eye is by reading about whatever accident took it. From that, we can understand that this particular fact (loss of Rum's eye) has never been verified by sight. It's just what people have read about.

Due to our familiarity with Gosho, I feel it's safe to say that the fake eye thing is genuine (at least for now). It's also like we were told Bourbon is good at gathering info like a detective. It just fits how Gosho does things and tries to construct a mystery. It's basically our one objective hint that serves as a start for the readers.

[Serinox]

unless, your saying that she felt the BO sense from Vermouth but thought it was coming from Sera? But when she first felt it on the train she knew it was from behind, so I still don't see how it was her BO sense.

Yep, that's what I'm saying. Haibara was probably to distracted by Sera's scrutiny to properly evalutate where that feeling was coming from.

[jimmy_kud0_tv2]

Why Hondou? He was a CIA, and Kuroda is supposedly from the National Police Agency. Not sure those two have any reason to know each other.

Hondou is just a stab in the dark, there's nothing at all to show they're related. According to my theory of Kuroda having some sort of evidence against the BO, he could have been in contact with an infiltrator within the BO itself. So as far as timeline goes, the only infiltrator (that we know of) at that time (10 years ago, before he went into a coma) was Ethan Hondou. I'm curious, do we know when exactly Ethan started his infiltration into the BO? I tried to look it up in the DC wiki, but it doesn't state it there.

Although I no longer have the chapter and page number references
At some point in the past I made a timeline thing of things

Presumably Ethan was already attempting to infiltrate the BO by the time he began living in Osaka,
and the earliest that we can track him to, he is already in Osaka.

0. Ethan joins the CIA ?? years ago.
Ethan marries Eisuke and Hidemi's (unnamed) mother ?? years ago
Hidemi is born 27 years ago
Eisuke is born 17 years ago

1.Eisuke living with his mother at the Okudaira residence, father working in Osaka, Hidemi studying abroad ?? years ago
(Hidemi came back on vacations, Ethan only came back on New Years Holiday)

2.Eisuke and Hidemi's mother dies ?? years ago and Eisuke goes to live with his father in Osaka
The photograph of Ethan from when he and Eisuke were living in Osaka had to have been taken approximately 13 years ago.
Eisuke gets blood transfusion from Hidemi while living in Osaka after entering primary school

3.Hidemi estranged herself from the family around 10 years ago.
(in the present, it is said that Eisuke hasn't seen the Okudaira family in almost 10 years)

4.Ethan dies to save Hidemi around 4 years ago.