Anokata theory: The boss may be...

[MeiTanteixX]

I actually started wonder why the boss didn't take any further actions to make sure that Kudo Shinichi is dead. I apologize in advance, if somebody mentioned about it before (I admit it, I'm too lazy to go through 23 pages).

We know that the boss sent investigator teams to Shinichi's house twice, but don't you think it's weird that the boss so easily accepted the fact that Shinichi is dead, only because there was no signs of anybody being in Shinichi's house.

We know already that the boss considered the idea that Shinichi might survive, they wouldn't send investigator teams, if they wouldn't. The boss is the smart person, right? So, why they wouldn't came up with the idea that Shinichi didn't come back to his house or he was there only once to take few stuff. Neither the boss nor bo's members were in the Kudo's house before, so they don't know what stuff, he has in his house, if few clothes would vanish, I doubt they would notice it, besides, I think, if Shinichi would not shrink, Agasa would warn him not to take any of his stuff, since they might notice it.

The other thing is even if the boss believed in Shinichi's death, then the boss should wonder about what happened to Kudo's body. He was killed at Tropical Land, the place, where many people goes and have guards, so his body should be discovered right away and on the next day, the fact about his death should be all over the news. The boss might think that somebody found Shinichi's body, perhaps, police, since they were before at the Tropical Land, because of the case, but they decided to hide the fact that Shinichi died in order to lure his killers out.

Vermouth said in the file 704 that the boss is a cautious person, who can ruin the plan by over-thinking it, so the boss should just thought, that since Kudo is dead, there is no reason for them to investigate any further and risk the BO exposure and besides there was no signs of infiltration, at least, at the beginning.

There was situation with Sherry's escape and Gin said in the file 181 that they investigate whether there was any rats helping Shiho to escape. I'm not saying that the boss thought that Shinichi was the one, who rescued her, but then the boss has the idea that there is somebody, who can be the threat to the organization. The boss could think (as Chekhov mentioned before) that it could be Akai, who rescued her.

Now, the hotel party murder case, where Gin was trying to kill Shiho on rooftop and suddenly somebody shouted to her to go to chimney and shoot Gin with a needle who almost made him fall asleep. Now assuming, that the boss thought that Akai or anyone from FBI was the one, who helped Sherry to escape from the gas chamber. It is easy to assume for the boss and Gin thought that it was Akai who rescued her, but Gin should tell from the Shiho's rescuer's actions that it wasn't Akai or any FBI member, who saved Shiho in that hotel. FBI would rather use guns instead of a sleeping needle. I assume that the Gin reported everything in details about what happened, so the boss could assume that there is somebody, other than FBI, who knows about the BO.

The other case is footsteps of darkness, where Gin is sure that there is somebody, who took interest of BO. Gin, who is loyal to the boss, would definitely tell the boss about what happened.

Now, let's back to Shinichi's case. In my opinion, the boss shouldn't just assume that Shinichi died, they should consider the fact that Kudo could actually be alive. In this case, why didn't the boss tell Gin and others about their suspicions about Kudo being alive? The boss could them that since there was no body found, there is a chance that Kudo could still be alive. It's true that there are articles in newspaper about possibility of Shinichi being murdered, but let's face it, if anybody as famous as Kudo Shinichi would vanish without trace, it is obvious that reporters would do story of it and the boss should be smart enough and not believe in these articles.

There are few reasons in my opinion, why the boss took no further actions to check whether Kudo is dead or not.

First, the boss simply accepted that Kudo Shinichi died. The problem, I have with it, it is that the boss too quickly accepted it, only because there were no signs of anybody being Shinichi's house, which I mentioned before.

Second, the boss has the suspicions about Shinichi being alive, but the boss decided not to do anything about it. The reason for it could be that the boss thinks that any further actions could expose the organization, but doing nothing is also too careless. I guees it goes with overthinking.

Third, the boss took further actions, but we readers don't know about it, but there is no really evidence for it (I think) so it is rather unlikely.

Fourth, the boss knows that Shinichi shrunk. However, if that was the case, then the boss would also know about Shiho.

I was thinking that if the boss is child who stuck in child form for 50 years (I like the theory about the boss being a child ), then maybe the boss didn't do anything, because Shinichi is now in the same situation as them, so they might actually enjoying that they are not the only one.

Well obviously, the boss' priority is to keep the organization in secret, so they should kill Conan right away, but if the boss spied on Conan, he would know that the same as FBI, Conan has decided not to tell anyone about the BO.

Of course, there are some people, who found out about BO from Conan (most in cases, Conan had no choice and he had to tell them or they found out on their own or from somebody else) like Heiji, Shinichi's parents, Agasa. Well if the boss spied on Conan enough to know about those people, then they should do something about it right. However, Heiji's death would cause his father very furious and Heizo would do anything to find out who murdered his son and the boss also could think that killing Conan's friend could make him angry enough to reveal about the organization's existence to the police and the boss would rather want to avoid it.

Shinichi's parents well most of the time, they live in America and again the boss who is too cautious could think that killing them would cause more harm than good, the same goes to Agasa.

The other problem is why the boss didn't tell Vermouth about what he knows and not order her to kill Ai. The reason could be the same as for Conan. The boss is probably enjoying Ai dealing with being a child. The boss sent their men to kill Shiho, simply because they don't want to make themselves suspicious. If the boss is a child, then the only person who know about is Vermouth and perhaps Gin. If the boss would not do anything about Sherry's escape, then it would make them suspicious.

The problem with it, it is why the boss didn't tell Vermouth, who is their favourite about it. I would find funny if both the boss and Vermouth would know about Conan and Ai's condition, but they would not tell each other for their own reasons.

If the boss is a child and I mentioned before that I would like for the boss being somebody, who would shock us, my vote would go to Ayumi. I know there is lots of whys she couldn't be the boss and I'm not saying that Ayumi is 100% the boss is just an idea, which probably is wrong.

In conclusion, I would like to say that I would like to know, if there is a reason for the boss not taking more actions in Shinichi's case, considering that his body wasn't found or maybe the boss simply thinks that Shinichi is indeed dead.

The boss wasn't responsible for the whole "give up on shinichi" case, that was sherry, she was also the one who sent the investigators, as an obligation, not specifically as an order by the boss, so there are "some" holes in ur reasoning!

[iloveanime17]

The boss is obviously Touichi, Kaito's dad
Reasons
1.BO been around 60 years
2.Never saw his body, how could a world famous magician die in magic act. He found the jewel and decided to 'die' so the people after him would stop looking for him
3.Vermouth is the favorite, who was trained by Touichi(real reason why she hasn't aged)
4.Made few cameos in Shinichi's past, meaning that he is still an important character
5.His name means 'black feather'

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

The boss is obviously Touichi, Kaito's dad
Reasons
1.BO been around 60 years
2.Never saw his body, how could a world famous magician die in magic act. He found the jewel and decided to 'die' so the people after him would stop looking for him
3.Vermouth is the favorite, who was trained by Touichi(real reason why she hasn't aged)
4.Made few cameos in Shinichi's past, meaning that he is still an important character
5.His name means 'black feather'

The Magic Kaito canon would contradict Toichi Kuroba being the boss.
1: No one knows how long the Black Organization has been around has been around. Haibara says the project that APTX 4869 is a part of has existed for at least 50 years. This does not mean the Syndicate is the same age; it could be older or younger.
2. Toichi was killed by Snake and the murder framed as a stage accident because he got in the way of (manga)/was targeting the same jewel that (anime) the Magic Kaito Organization was.
3. Vermouth's lack-of-aging seems to be real and not makeup because her true face is youthful; Akai Shuuichi proved this by shooting her and conclusively showing her face was not a mask. She was already an adult 20 years ago when she killed Jodie's dad and left behind a fingerprint, so her still youthful face cannot be explained with normal methods like makeup and disguise.
4. Maybe.
5. That's true.

[soul_dreamer]

The boss wasn't responsible for the whole "give up on Shinichi" case, that was sherry, she was also the one who sent the investigators, as an obligation, not specifically as an order by the boss, so there are "some" holes in ur reasoning!

I agree with you that Shiho was responsible for ‘giving up’ on Shinichi's case, because she marked him as dead. However, my point was that the boss gave up on Shinichi too quickly, considering that the body was never found and yes the boss could accept the Shinichi’s death after Shiho or someone else reported to him that there is no life traces in the Kudo’s house, but like I said before, in my opinion the boss should take into consideration that Kudo simply didn't return to his house.

Also, according to the chapter 179, Ai said, “You know the organization did send investigators teams to your house twice... Of course as the inventor of the drug, I was in the teams as well.”
Of what I understood from this statement, that it wasn't Shiho, who sent the teams to investigate Kudo’s house. I said before that it was the boss, because well they run the organization, so it seems quite reasonable to think that he gave the order. Of course, it might not be the boss, who gave the order, but the members themselves decided to check the Kudo’s house.

Unfortunately, Detective Conan World website are undergoing maintenance, so I cannot check, but I think (I may be wrong), that the first hint that there is someone above all the members and he or she run the organization was mentioned somewhere after this chapter. So maybe, Gosho used the word 'organization' instead of the 'boss', because he didn't want his readers to find out yet about the boss's existence.

[MeiTanteixX]

The boss wasn't responsible for the whole "give up on Shinichi" case, that was sherry, she was also the one who sent the investigators, as an obligation, not specifically as an order by the boss, so there are "some" holes in ur reasoning!

I agree with you that Shiho was responsible for ‘giving up’ on Shinichi's case, because she marked him as dead. However, my point was that the boss gave up on Shinichi too quickly, considering that the body was never found and yes the boss could accept the Shinichi’s death after Shiho or someone else reported to him that there is no life traces in the Kudo’s house, but like I said before, in my opinion the boss should take into consideration that Kudo simply didn't return to his house.

Also, according to the chapter 179, Ai said, “You know the organization did send investigators teams to your house twice... Of course as the inventor of the drug, I was in the teams as well.”
Of what I understood from this statement, that it wasn't Shiho, who sent the teams to investigate Kudo’s house. I said before that it was the boss, because well they run the organization, so it seems quite reasonable to think that he gave the order. Of course, it might not be the boss, who gave the order, but the members themselves decided to check the Kudo’s house.

Unfortunately, Detective Conan World website are undergoing maintenance, so I cannot check, but I think (I may be wrong), that the first hint that there is someone above all the members and he or she run the organization was mentioned somewhere after this chapter. So maybe, Gosho used the word 'organization' instead of the 'boss', because he didn't want his readers to find out yet about the boss's existence.

the thing is, there is no guarantee that the boss even knew that shinichi was drugged, or the details about his body missing! If we recall the list of APTX victims, there were a lot of them. Sure the boss gets notified about what the BO does, But the chance of Anokata going through every victims death incident in details or specifically shinichis case just because of a notion is a bit low, considering that he is a busy person who has control of a Big Organization and probably has other scientists or detectives that can take care of it.

Yes I do agree that he is very cautious (as vermouth mentioned) but the fact that there were no traces of someone living in the house (according to sherry's report) is enough for them to leave the case at rest, since they can't be bothered by it and has other things to worry about (just like all the other victims) .....but they were WRONG!!! x)

[soul_dreamer]

I don’t know how the black organization exactly is running, but it would be weird for me, if he or she didn’t know about Kudo’s being killed. After all, he or she should be reported about everything what the organization is doing, otherwise the members would do what they want (what was already the case – Vermouth).

It’s true that the boss used his people to check whether Kudo is dead or not, and when he or she found out that he is, so well the boss probably accept his death and like you said the boss has other things to worry about.
However, I assume that the organization knows for sure that everyone they killed is really dead, whether they know from the spot, e.g. they shoot straight into the head and burn the house or next day, there is article newspaper about it.

The organization didn’t get the confirmation whether Kudo is dead or not that’s why they decided to check Kudo’s house. Yes, the boss as a busy person may not have time to go deeper into Kudo’s case and the boss just accepted Kudo’s dead.

However, if the boss got report about Kudo’s death, which I would be surprised if the boss didn’t, especially that there was possibility of Kudo being alive, then he or she should at least ask themselves this question, why the body wasn’t found? Of course the boss could think that the police/family took care of it and they didn’t want to make a big fuss about his death.

There is also the other thing that made me wonder. Gin in the first chapter said that they didn’t test it on human yet, which means Kudo was the first person who was drugged by APTX, and Ai in 179 chapter said that ‘of all people who took care the drug only your death wasn’t confirmed’. It means that there were more people, who were drugged by APTX, but their deaths were confirmed. So, why only Kudo and Shiho and most probably

Spoiler:

that girl, who talked with Sera

have been shrunk, unless those other people were also shrunk and they were also able to deceive the organization, but if not, then what it depends from that people shrunk from the drug.

[MeiTanteixX]

I don’t know how the black organization exactly is running, but it would be weird for me, if he or she didn’t know about Kudo’s being killed. After all, he or she should be reported about everything what the organization is doing, otherwise the members would do what they want (what was already the case – Vermouth).

It’s true that the boss used his people to check whether Kudo is dead or not, and when he or she found out that he is, so well the boss probably accept his death and like you said the boss has other things to worry about.
However, I assume that the organization knows for sure that everyone they killed is really dead, whether they know from the spot, e.g. they shoot straight into the head and burn the house or next day, there is article newspaper about it.

The organization didn’t get the confirmation whether Kudo is dead or not that’s why they decided to check Kudo’s house. Yes, the boss as a busy person may not have time to go deeper into Kudo’s case and the boss just accepted Kudo’s dead.

However, if the boss got report about Kudo’s death, which I would be surprised if the boss didn’t, especially that there was possibility of Kudo being alive, then he or she should at least ask themselves this question, why the body wasn’t found? Of course the boss could think that the police/family took care of it and they didn’t want to make a big fuss about his death.

There is also the other thing that made me wonder. Gin in the first chapter said that they didn’t test it on human yet, which means Kudo was the first person who was drugged by APTX, and Ai in 179 chapter said that ‘of all people who took care the drug only your death wasn’t confirmed’. It means that there were more people, who were drugged by APTX, but their deaths were confirmed. So, why only Kudo and Shiho and most probably

Spoiler:

that girl, who talked with Sera

have been shrunk, unless those other people were also shrunk and they were also able to deceive the organization, but if not, then what it depends from that people shrunk from the drug.

Yea, Sherry was the one who said that his death was the only one who was not confirmed, and what she wrote in the report was, if i remember correctly, that she confirmed it! In other words, unless they never trusted her reports, they went along with it and thought he was dead!

and we haven't exactly got hints to why shinichi, haibara and sera's ----- got shrunk. But we do know that of all her guinea pigs(mouse) a couple of them turned to their child state, so it can be just by chance, that the probability is low to turn into a child (probably bcuz it's not perfected yet)

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Unfortunately, Detective Conan World website are undergoing maintenance, so I cannot check, but I think (I may be wrong), that the first hint that there is someone above all the members and he or she run the organization was mentioned somewhere after this chapter. So maybe, Gosho used the word 'organization' instead of the 'boss', because he didn't want his readers to find out yet about the boss's existence.

First mention of the boss is Reunion with the Black Organization, aka Gin vs Sherry on the roof of the hotel. The DCWiki should be working in readonly mode right now. Try reloading the pages.

the thing is, there is no guarantee that the boss even knew that shinichi was drugged, or the details about his body missing! If we recall the list of APTX victims, there were a lot of them. Sure the boss gets notified about what the BO does, But the chance of Anokata going through every victims death incident in details or specifically shinichis case just because of a notion is a bit low, considering that he is a busy person who has control of a Big Organization and probably has other scientists or detectives that can take care of it.

This is definitely something to keep in mind. Pretty much everyone in Detective Conan, Black Organization included, has a problem with under-communication. It is really common for someone to not know certain information that an ally knows because proactive info sharing does not seem to exist in Detective Conan world. Certain things that would be common sense to share don't get passed along to allies while other things do. There doesn't seem to be a clear pattern, probably because Gosho manipulates the flow of info to create conflict (sometimes in common-sense-defying ways).
I think it is wise not to assume that someone knows a certain thing second-hand until it is confirmed that the information was passed along to them or they appear to act in a way consistent with knowing that specific piece of information.

[Jenaminya]

I have started to think that it really could be James Black. He himself actually doesn't ever do anything, even though you could think that he should be able to do something more that invent that pretty simple plan in the hospital (the orginal plan, not the one that Akai and Shinichi modifield). After all, he is the leader of the FBI in Japan. So that could be interpret that he is holding back.

And then.. I was just watching older episodes on the other day, and noticed this: in the ep 259 James Black calls Conan (in his mind) 'Cool guy'. Then again, in ep 345 where Jodie confronts Vermouth she wonders why Vermouth call Conan 'Cool guy' cause it would be more logical to call him 'Cool kid'.
Did James Black know that Conan is Shinichi?

(And if we count the fact which many have already said, about Shinichi connecting the name to James Moriarty. He has pretty good instics about who is the criminal, so..)

[MeiTanteixX]

That was also my first guess, but since things wouldn't add up with the story if he was the Boss(like for example: he is known to be a VERY CAUTIOUS person yet, if he is james, he knows that Kir's a spy in BO and doesn't get rid of her, risking all kinds of information to be leaked) i put that Idea on hold until further developments
...my prior guess right now is Miyano Atsushi...he is clouded in mystery, enough to be a suspect......
.....what bothers me is why Gosho had to mention haibara's reaction, if she found out about anokata's identity, in the interview....also, pretty fitting if the Mad scientist was infact the mad BO boss, or maybe he is infact RUM!!!
maybe RUM's appearence is what gosho was getting at when he said that atsushi miyano might make an appearance in the near future! !

[AICHAN]

.....what bothers me is why Gosho had to mention haibara's reaction, if she found out about anokata's identity, in the interview....also, pretty fitting if the Mad scientist was infact the mad BO boss, or maybe he is infact RUM!!!
maybe it's RUM's appearence is what gosho was getting at when he said that atsushi miyano might make an appearance in the near future! !

Yeah I've got the same feeling about Atsushi,he may not be the boss but I have some doubts about him being dead.There is so much mysteries about him,at least Helena left something for her daughter knowing she would go to a far away place,but Atsushi left nothing for her,and Ai barely mentions him.
So maybe he's Rum or another member close to the boss,and sacrificed his wife to get higher in the BO.(assuming Elena may be part of MI6 or something like that)

[MeiTanteixX]

But Atsushi died...

there is no proof on that, we only know that they intentionally left...then had an uncofirmed "accident" that was told to shiho and akemi...that could've easily been a made up story for some specific reason regarding the BO project...so almost anything is possible right now

[soul_dreamer]

@AICHAN: Interesting theory. It would be shocking if Atsushi would be alive. However, I would find surprising that he still on BO's side, after they killed Akemi and hunted Sherry down and if he's Rum, then he must think that Sherry's dead. Killing wife is one thing, but being all right with his daughters' death is another. Of course, he might care more about BO than his own daughters. However, the other thing is, if he's Rum and thus close to boss, then he could ask boss not to kill Akemi. He could say to boss that he would keep eye on her, so she wouldn't contact Akai.

Also, if Atsushi killed Elena, then why he had to pretend to be dead, as well? It wouldn't be hard to cover Elena's death as an accident. Also, Atsushi as a scientist could actually work on APTX with Shiho unless he works on it in secret. The other thing is that Elena on her tapes to Shiho told that both she and Atsushi would have to leave Shiho and her sister. Though, Atsushi could betray his wife and kill her in the end, but then why he would have to pretend to be dead? On the other hand his nickname is 'Mad Scientist' so he probably has some 'mad' reasons to pretend to be dead.

I still would find very interesting if he turned out to be alive, though.

[Shadow]

What we know about Atsushi and Elena is, according to Pisco, they had "a lab incident".
We don't know for sure if they are dead, or rejuvenated, or became "monsters", etc...

After all, Vermouth faked her own death twice, Akai faked his death, and Shin'ichi is sometimes rumoured as dead

[AICHAN]

In my theory I assume Atsushi is completly mad,and obsessed with the drug,or became close to the boss so that he doesn't care much about his family.I don't know I like the idea of Atsushi betraying his family XDXD it's just a crazy theory to balance the fact that there are too many good people in the BO.I wanna see monsters inside that organization...
Anyway I still have doubts about Ai's parents being dead,especially her dad...they could be somewhere working on the drug or something like that.As shadow said many people faked their death so why not Atsushi?

damn Gosho who cares about Rum,give us some info about Ai's parents first!