Unpopular Opinions about the Detective Conan

[Kudo Shinchi]

@Kor Yes, of course not, its good to criticize when its needed, I just felt some of the criticisms leveled at Gosho aren't valid, wasn't specifically talking about yours. I mentioned plot development and character development more in the context that Gosho has more on his plate then normal writers do, he has to take care of the basics along with everything else.

I know most people don't think much of the additional relationship plots. it's not like I love them, I just don't mind them. Honestly the two main ones (Shinran and Sato and Takagi) are the best, the side ones are at least a bit entertaining (for example, the drama between Shiratori and Kobayashi regarding her similarity to Sato was well done, IMO).

I actually think Gosho's an excellent storyteller. Not necessarily the best, but still good.An example is how he's setting up the future Haibara/Akai confrontation. Their relationship through Akemi is foreshadowed in the Vermouth arc, and then revealed in the Kir arc. Along the way Gosho introduces the CIA, the whole thing with Kir going to the hospital, then the attempts to get her back in Clash of Red and Black. He creates a whole mystery for the arc throughout all this, then resolves it in the climax. Events are designed so that Kir would eventually get back to the BO and go through a loyalty test to kill Akai. This happens. Assuming Akai is alive, clues to his survival were spread out over Clash of Red and Black in a natural way within the events of the story line (Possible example, depending on conclusion of arc: There's a spy in the hospital trying to find Kir. Gosho uses this single plot point create a small whodunnit mystery, lead to a bit of action, which leads to the spy committing suicide and thus alerting the BO of Kir's location which leads to further plot, and the spy'd body possibly being involved with Akai's fake death plan. Also, notice how Conan and Akai develop a respect for each other over the course of Clash. This is clearly a setup for the end of the Clash arc.

Once all that's done, assuming Okiya is Akai, he comes back in disguise. Gosho uses his appearance as a catalyst for another mystery arc, which introduces new characters and new mysteries that contribute to the overall plot. Aside from all this, Haibara and Okiya's relationship is emphasized and actually develops, with Haibara actually losing her fear of Okiya and becoming suspicious of him, which gives a new dimension to their interactions. Its clear where this is all going, and this is just one piece in the elaborate overall picture Gosho set up. That's some impressive planning and plotting ahead, and the way Gosho seamlessly blends plot and mystery is shown even more clearly here. Obviously gosho isn't perfect, and he does take a tad bit too long to get the plot moving (all of the above took place over a course of around 10 years real-time), but he still writes excellently, IMO.

[sonoci]

I really like the scene where Conan says Eisuke can't confess to Ran
This scene gets a lot of crap, and I get why, but I actually think it works really well. Now, this might be partially because I love everything else about the whole ending to that episode, but I think it works perfectly with Conan's character. Shinichi is kind of an asshole. I'm obviously not the first person to notice this and the early parts of the series were clearly used to make him less of an asshole, but that doesn't mean he isn't kind of an asshole at points. Like honestly, I would have been far more annoyed had he not stopped Eisuke, as I can't see him being ok with any guy confessing to Ran. Ever. It honestly makes me wish they'd really go more into the psychology of it or whatever, but that's clearly not going to happen.

People don't like that scene? Didn't know that. It's one of my favorite parts of the series, I think the delivery is especially great.

I saw somebody unhappy about it once because they didn't like the idea of one man asking another for permission to date a girl, as if the girl's opinion didn't matter.

I was (possibly) that "somebody". Had myself a little rant on it a while ago, though I think I'll clarify something here. The rant was kind of more of a "Please do realize what exactly the implications of this scene are before loving it, because if you look at it deeper it's not a good message" sort of thing. I also would like to see more assholeness/flaws out of Shinichi, because lately (as someone mentioned) he's been going downhill a bit. The psychology would also be interesting. However, if this were to happen, it would have to be right: for instance, in this scene Shinichi's assholeness kind of went past a few people (myself included) and in general was well-received/backed with people saying things like "You go, Shinichi! Don't let him steal Ran." etc. ...That reception is what worries me. It's one thing to want to see Shinichi's psyche explored and maybe deconstructed, it's another thing to agree with potentially harmful messages.

Childhood friend romances in DC are fine
Really, they get a lot of flak just because they show up a lot. Doesn't really bother me, tbh.

It wouldn't bother me if not for the fact that a huge majority of them are childhood romances, and all in one series. If signs of a couple start to show and people can accurately guess that there's going to be "childhood relations" 8/10 times, that's not really a good thing. It just kind of gives it a staleness when it's all in the same series, especially since it all seems to be at the same age (6/7). Like, Megure's was an interesting twist: his romance - rather than be a childhood one - was in his late teens/early twenties.

It's also just a little unbelievable since childhood crushes are usually just that - childhood crushes.

[Pmofmalasia]

People don't like that scene? Didn't know that. It's one of my favorite parts of the series, I think the delivery is especially great.

I saw somebody unhappy about it once because they didn't like the idea of one man asking another for permission to date a girl, as if the girl's opinion didn't matter.

I was (possibly) that "somebody". Had myself a little rant on it a while ago, though I think I'll clarify something here. The rant was kind of more of a "Please do realize what exactly the implications of this scene are before loving it, because if you look at it deeper it's not a good message" sort of thing. I also would like to see more assholeness/flaws out of Shinichi, because lately (as someone mentioned) he's been going downhill a bit. The psychology would also be interesting. However, if this were to happen, it would have to be right: for instance, in this scene Shinichi's assholeness kind of went past a few people (myself included) and in general was well-received/backed with people saying things like "You go, Shinichi! Don't let him steal Ran." etc. ...That reception is what worries me. It's one thing to want to see Shinichi's psyche explored and maybe deconstructed, it's another thing to agree with potentially harmful messages.

Eh, I didn't really see that at all in that scene. The reason he asks Shinichi is because he doesn't know how Shinichi feels about Ran. I see it as more of a respectful, "Hey, if you guys both really like each other I'll let you be happy together" kind of asking as opposed to bargaining for a possession. Especially since Eiuske knows that Ran will choose Shinichi over Eiuske anyway.

Also, on the subject of childhood romances, a lot of that is because DC has an absurdly large amount of foil characters, so as a result they all end up with their own childhood romances. That's not to say that there haven't been some inexcusable ones, though, like Shiratori and Chiba's...

[kkslider5552000]

Shiratori at least had that 2nd case focused on it where the whole scenario is kinda made fun of and self-aware of the unfortunate implications of the "I thought Sato was this other girl" nonsense. The Chiba story, for the record, doesn't suck because it's a childhood friendship love story. It sucks because it adds nothing of interest to that cliched story.

[dilbertschalter]

This topic has turned out to be more interesting than I expected. Here's mine, and this one is going to summon the beats:

There are a number of AOs that are better than manga cases of their corresponding era.

I'm ready.

I think I said this in the OT controversial opinions thread and it's definitely the tendency of the DC fandom that annoys me most- people just write off AOs, even though plenty of them are fine (and, conversely, they elevate bad manga-based cases).

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I really like the scene where Conan says Eisuke can't confess to Ran
This scene gets a lot of crap, and I get why, but I actually think it works really well. Now, this might be partially because I love everything else about the whole ending to that episode, but I think it works perfectly with Conan's character. Shinichi is kind of an asshole. I'm obviously not the first person to notice this and the early parts of the series were clearly used to make him less of an asshole, but that doesn't mean he isn't kind of an asshole at points. Like honestly, I would have been far more annoyed had he not stopped Eisuke, as I can't see him being ok with any guy confessing to Ran. Ever. It honestly makes me wish they'd really go more into the psychology of it or whatever, but that's clearly not going to happen.

People don't like that scene? Didn't know that. It's one of my favorite parts of the series, I think the delivery is especially great.

I saw somebody unhappy about it once because they didn't like the idea of one man asking another for permission to date a girl, as if the girl's opinion didn't matter.

I was (possibly) that "somebody". Had myself a little rant on it a while ago, though I think I'll clarify something here. The rant was kind of more of a "Please do realize what exactly the implications of this scene are before loving it, because if you look at it deeper it's not a good message" sort of thing. I also would like to see more assholeness/flaws out of Shinichi, because lately (as someone mentioned) he's been going downhill a bit. The psychology would also be interesting. However, if this were to happen, it would have to be right: for instance, in this scene Shinichi's assholeness kind of went past a few people (myself included) and in general was well-received/backed with people saying things like "You go, Shinichi! Don't let him steal Ran." etc. ...That reception is what worries me. It's one thing to want to see Shinichi's psyche explored and maybe deconstructed, it's another thing to agree with potentially harmful messages.

I don't know if it was you who made the point, but I didn't really care for that scene either (unpopular opinion?). It just kind of fell flat for me; I read it and thought "Okay. That was kind of dumb, Shinichi." The emotion didn't really make it across. I think it would have been better if it was done a different way. Maybe Ran turning Eisuke down directly because she "believed in Shinichi". Or maybe something like the below

For reference: http://www.dctp.ws/V60-Reader/V60-2Read/A13.html
Eisuke: "Blah, leaving for America, blah, wanna become CIA, blah. Before I leave, I want to confess my feelings to Ran. I have had a crush on her since first sight. I've never met someone so pretty and nice. I... I want to ask her if she will come back to America with me. But it sounds like she still has some feelings for Shinichi. It makes me sad to see Ran left alone by Shinichi. If it were me, I wouldn't leave her alone. How can she have so much faith in someone who has abandoned her for so long?"
Conan: "Ran believes Shinichi will definitely come back."
Eisuke: "Hmm, and do you think he will?"
Conan: "Shinichi will definitely come back!"
Eisuke: "Hmm, but I really wonder if he even wants to... If Shinichi really cared about Ran, then being by her side would be more important to him than that case he is chasing. From what I have heard, that guy seems to have a personality that will pursue cases to the end no matter how long it takes. Since I have known Ran, Shinichi hasn't appeared even once, even though Ran has been troubled. The way I see it, Shinichi doesn't truly care about coming back to Ran. How do you know that Shinichi really intends to return, Conan? "
Conan: "I know."
Eisuke: "Then. You are..."
Conan: "Yes, I am!"
Conan and Eisuke: "blah blah blah"
Exeunt

[Osaka Detective]

This topic has turned out to be more interesting than I expected. Here's mine, and this one is going to summon the beats:

There are a number of AOs that are better than manga cases of their corresponding era.

I'm ready.

You've got to give examples now.

That opinion is somewhat true for the first 300 or so episodes IMO, not more.

Really? You mean you don't find the Seance Double Locked Room Mystery a little bit awesome? How about the Hot Chocolate Trap? IMO the House with the Aquarium AO was quite nice too. The Mystery Tours are definitely losing their taste (IMO). The best one for me is Kogoro Gets Drunk in Satsuma (is that even a Mystery Tour)? If it's not, Sword of the Eight-Headed Serpent is pretty close, but yeah, I agree. They definitely weren't as good as pre-300s, but to say that there's no good AOs after 300 or so is a bit...

PS: For those that want reasons:

Seance Double Locked Room Mystery: Someone tell me that it's worse than 'The Dream the Kappa Saw'.

Hot Chocolate Trap: Science mechanics are involved, and it's pretty engaging. IMO It's a bit better than Co-investigating with Chiba & Miike trying to figure each other's identity two-parter with 0 murder inside.

House with the Aquarium: I find it much better than The Detective Memoir of Monkey and Rake, because I think figuring out how an alibi is created is far more interesting than the *insert Jodie* dying message.

Kogoro Gets Drunk in Satsuma: MPD6 is the closest case to this awesome AO 2=parter. Other than its purpose of 'advancing' the plot, I'd say the Satsuma two parter would be better, since I found it more interesting.

Eight-Headed Serpent: vs... Gingko-Coloured First Love... uhhhh It was pretty pointless other than figuring out the code. The Evil Spirit appearing on an unlucky day had a great setup, but I find its resolution pretty... stupid no offense to Gosho btw.

[Pmofmalasia]

This topic has turned out to be more interesting than I expected. Here's mine, and this one is going to summon the beats:

There are a number of AOs that are better than manga cases of their corresponding era.

I'm ready.

I think I said this in the OT controversial opinions thread and it's definitely the tendency of the DC fandom that annoys me most- people just write off AOs, even though plenty of them are fine (and, conversely, they elevate bad manga-based cases).

I think part of the reason that I don't like the recent one parter AOs is simply because they're in anime form. I realize this sounds bad, but let me explain. In my opinion, reading the manga makes for much better deducing than anime, since you have the time to look at each panel and discover clues. Then, on top of this, each case is stretched out over at least three chapters, giving us time to discuss the case here on the forums. With these one parter AOs, we have none of that. There's little time to actually deduce anything, and there's no discussion since the case is over in one sitting. I'd enjoy the recent AOs much more if they went back to doing 2-parters.

[kirite]

DC needs to have less romance.

I know I know. I hear people complaining that DC doesn't have enough romance. But honestly unless it a character defining moment (Mitsuhiko sharing radio with Haibara so they can listen to football together) or it's actually relevant to a case (Satou/Takagi ones) I don't really care (Shiragami-sama, no sh-ts given except fan service).

DC needs more humor.

Cause for me the moments I remember the best are the silly funny ones. I know this is suppose to be a "serious, cool, intelligent" sorta deal but I feel it can get a bit stale.

[Kor]

Cause for me the moments I remember the best are the silly funny ones. I know this is suppose to be a "serious, cool, intelligent" sorta deal but I feel it can get a bit stale.

As far as I'm concerned, DC stopped being "serious" when Conan rode on a dog

[Kleene Onigiri]

I really like the scene where Conan says Eisuke can't confess to Ran
This scene gets a lot of crap, and I get why, but I actually think it works really well. Now, this might be partially because I love everything else about the whole ending to that episode, but I think it works perfectly with Conan's character. Shinichi is kind of an asshole. I'm obviously not the first person to notice this and the early parts of the series were clearly used to make him less of an asshole, but that doesn't mean he isn't kind of an asshole at points. Like honestly, I would have been far more annoyed had he not stopped Eisuke, as I can't see him being ok with any guy confessing to Ran. Ever. It honestly makes me wish they'd really go more into the psychology of it or whatever, but that's clearly not going to happen.

People don't like that scene? Didn't know that. It's one of my favorite parts of the series, I think the delivery is especially great.

I saw somebody unhappy about it once because they didn't like the idea of one man asking another for permission to date a girl, as if the girl's opinion didn't matter.

I was (possibly) that "somebody". Had myself a little rant on it a while ago, though I think I'll clarify something here. The rant was kind of more of a "Please do realize what exactly the implications of this scene are before loving it, because if you look at it deeper it's not a good message" sort of thing. I also would like to see more assholeness/flaws out of Shinichi, because lately (as someone mentioned) he's been going downhill a bit. The psychology would also be interesting. However, if this were to happen, it would have to be right: for instance, in this scene Shinichi's assholeness kind of went past a few people (myself included) and in general was well-received/backed with people saying things like "You go, Shinichi! Don't let him steal Ran." etc. ...That reception is what worries me. It's one thing to want to see Shinichi's psyche explored and maybe deconstructed, it's another thing to agree with potentially harmful messages.

I interpreted that scene differently too. For me Eisuke wasn't asking for permission, he was acting here to lure out Shinichi.
Also, I think he indirectly asked Shinichi that way if he's serious about Ran. Eisuke is not stupid and he knows Ran is in love with Shinichi and would wait for him. He just wanted to know if Shinichi would actually come back or if he's giving up. If he had given up, Eisuke would try to make Ran forget about him, bringing her with him to America.
But since Shinichi didn't, he's letting her go and doesn't try to intervene in their love.


Kudos and Eri are not good parents
No, seriously. What the hell D:
Yuusaku and Yukiko left their son alone in Japan and are almost never at home.
Now, Shinichi even ended up in a bad situation, shrank and whatnot. But they are still almost never around?
Even in the flashback about Shinichis and Rans past, Agasa was the one driving them around.
Not to mention they trolled him pretty good the first time they appeared :x "to show him how dangerous the situation is". Yeah, suuure. But what if Shinichi would have done something risky, like jumping out of the window or similar because he was SCARED FOR HIS LIFE?

And Eri... she's barely around for Ran too. Sure, she's almost an adult now. But even in the flashbacks about Ran's past you saw that she had to cook and that they were pretty poor... and even now they would still be poor if Shinichi wouldn't have made Kogoro famous. But Eri is actually a successful lawyer? That would mean she doesn't pay for Ran? :/
Of course, people are separating for various reasons, and that's fine. But Eri left Kogoro because she... doesn't love him? Wait, she does love him (a lot actually). Then, because he did something unforgivable.... wait... nope, wrong again? She left him because he didn't like her cooking and they got into a fight....
Sure, you can get mad, fight and separate for a while even for small reasons.... but Kogoro already apologized and asked her to come back. And Eri... well, yeah. She didn't get back together with him because.... yep, for no good reason at all.

rant rant rant XD

[Kor]

Kudos and Eri are not good parents
No, seriously. What the hell D:
Yuusaku and Yukiko left their son alone in Japan and are almost never at home.
Now, Shinichi even ended up in a bad situation, shrank and whatnot. But they are still almost never around?
Even in the flashback about Shinichis and Rans past, Agasa was the one driving them around.
Not to mention they trolled him pretty good the first time they appeared :x "to show him how dangerous the situation is". Yeah, suuure. But what if Shinichi would have done something risky, like jumping out of the window or similar because he was SCARED FOR HIS LIFE?

I'm willing to kinda defend Gosho on this one. Stories in the likes of Conan are targeted at a young audience, in which the characters are usually teenagers and kids (having the parents around would limit the independence of the protagonist). In most of these stories, though, (for example: Harry Potter, Avatar, Pokemon, Dragon Ball, etc.), you get decent reasons why the parents aren't around (often they're dead) (Pokemon's reason is arguably weak, but it's part of "that world"). However in DC, Shinichi's parents are alive, but Gosho still can't let them be around, so he kinda had to make them seemingly bad parents. So yeah, they are bad parents, but it's kind of the result of a story necessity (unless Gosho intended them to be seen as bad parents).

[Conan-chandesune]

Kudos and Eri are not good parents
No, seriously. What the hell D:
Yuusaku and Yukiko left their son alone in Japan and are almost never at home.
Now, Shinichi even ended up in a bad situation, shrank and whatnot. But they are still almost never around?
Even in the flashback about Shinichis and Rans past, Agasa was the one driving them around.
Not to mention they trolled him pretty good the first time they appeared :x "to show him how dangerous the situation is". Yeah, suuure. But what if Shinichi would have done something risky, like jumping out of the window or similar because he was SCARED FOR HIS LIFE?

And Eri... she's barely around for Ran too. Sure, she's almost an adult now. But even in the flashbacks about Ran's past you saw that she had to cook and that they were pretty poor... and even now they would still be poor if Shinichi wouldn't have made Kogoro famous. But Eri is actually a successful lawyer? That would mean she doesn't pay for Ran? :/
Of course, people are separating for various reasons, and that's fine. But Eri left Kogoro because she... doesn't love him? Wait, she does love him (a lot actually). Then, because he did something unforgivable.... wait... nope, wrong again? She left him because he didn't like her cooking and they got into a fight....
Sure, you can get mad, fight and separate for a while even for small reasons.... but Kogoro already apologized and asked her to come back. And Eri... well, yeah. She didn't get back together with him because.... yep, for no good reason at all.

rant rant rant XD

For the kudos, you are PARTLY right and i agree, you should not leave your son alone.

But for the Mouris, i remember Sonoko saying that Ran's mother became a famous lawyer AFTER they separated. Also, they DID survive, did they not??
Also, the cooking part is Movie 2, which is NON-CANON.

[b8ajenai]

Kudos and Eri are not good parents

Are you implying that Kogoro is a good parent? Probably the best "parent" in the series is Haibara to Agasa.

[shinichi'sapprentice]

Kudos and Eri are not good parents

Are you implying that Kogoro is a good parent? Probably the best "parent" in the series is Haibara to Agasa.

↑this..

The kids' group is called the Detective Boys when Ayumiand Haibara are/is part of the group.

I don't know if this has been explained thoroughly in the manga or somewhere already but i've always wondered why they came up with that name. At least in one country they're called as the Detective Squad(that's what i still call 'em) and here in US i believe they're called the Junior Detective League?..

so yeah.. that's my unpopular opinion..