Okiya Subaru's True Identity

[Nyarl]

With this being the condition wouldn't it prove more that Okiya isn't a member? The Org has seen her when she was young and as the story portray that Okiya is equally intelligent as Shinichi is, he can figure that out in the first or second time she saw Haibara passing by and with some research on BO's Database, Professor Agasa's house should have been burned down by now...

Not necessarily. Remember, Gin expressed interest in finding out who's helping her (24.11pp17/ep.178). He might wait on eliminating her until he is sure that he has identified everyone who could have been helping her, and that could take any number of chapters in the generally timeless continuity.

[Rellik]

Okiya Bourbon being a new member means he most likely doesn't know most the things that goes on in BO, he most likely is just on a mission without a clue about Sherry since if he does, their first encounter would hav blown their cover.

And the fact BO thinks Sherry has left the Beika area means they probably didn't tell Bourbon anything since his 'mission' is in the Beika area.

[SkyVenger]

But, you folks are still overlooking that Conan is already putting Ran (and the others) in danger simply by helping the FBI as Conan...

Hold your horses. Like I said, Conan would never intentionally do that, but I admit he made a grave mistake. Remember the time when the bug Conan placed to find the prankster in Rena's house? When it coincidentally fell and stuck on Rena's shoe, Conan heard from the bug that she was Kir. But he also realized that when the bug was found out, Kogoro was the primary suspect (not Conan, they wouldn't expect a kid), so he decided to remove it, even at the cost of losing track of the BO. Though he had a chance, he couldn't remove the bug in front of Kir (who was assumed to be from the Org) because he might be exposed as someone helping the FBI. So the bug was found out eventually, and Kogoro was placed on BO's (specifically Gin's) "suspects" list.

It might be right that no matter what Conan does against the BO, he is continually risking Kogoro's life (and Ran's, eventually), but it's also helping him in the sense that he has to be more cautious next time. That's why he can not take the risk of letting a BO member in his house.

Okiya Bourbon being a new member means he most likely doesn't know most the things that goes on in BO, he most likely is just on a mission without a clue about Sherry since if he does, their first encounter would hav blown their cover.

And the fact BO thinks Sherry has left the Beika area means they probably didn't tell Bourbon anything since his 'mission' is in the Beika area.

It's like telling us that an FBI agent doesn't know Saddam Hussein or a teacher not knowing the top student in his/her class . Get the drift?

[chitz38]

Not necessarily. Remember, Gin expressed interest in finding out who's helping her (24.11pp17/ep.178). He might wait on eliminating her until he is sure that he has identified everyone who could have been helping her, and that could take any number of chapters in the generally timeless continuity.

Wouldn't He assume that the man helping her is Professor Agasa? She is living in his house in the first place.

Okiya Bourbon being a new member means he most likely doesn't know most the things that goes on in BO, he most likely is just on a mission without a clue about Sherry since if he does, their first encounter would hav blown their cover.

Are you trying to say here that Bourbon's mission in Beika (assuming Okiya is Bourbon) is different and not to know Sherry's whereabouts and he coincidentally just be staying at a house near Haibara's?

[Quiet Lurker]

But, you folks are still overlooking that Conan is already putting Ran (and the others) in danger simply by helping the FBI as Conan...

Hold your horses. Like I said, Conan would never intentionally do that, but I admit he made a grave mistake. Remember the time when the bug Conan placed to find the prankster in Rena's house? When it coincidentally fell and stuck on Rena's shoe, Conan heard from the bug that she was Kir. But he also realized that when the bug was found out, Kogoro was the primary suspect (not Conan, they wouldn't expect a kid), so he decided to remove it, even at the cost of losing track of the BO. Though he had a chance, he couldn't remove the bug in front of Kir (who was assumed to be from the Org) because he might be exposed as someone helping the FBI. So the bug was found out eventually, and Kogoro was placed on BO's (specifically Gin's) "suspects" list.

It might be right that no matter what Conan does against the BO, he is continually risking Kogoro's life (and Ran's, eventually), but it's also helping him in the sense that he has to be more cautious next time. That's why he can not take the risk of letting a BO member in his house.

Don't forget that Conan does take precautions:
- When Akai warned Conan about the possible repercussions, Conan said that he "believe in you FBI guys."
- However, when things don't go as planned, we find that Conan had pretty much anticipated the possibility of failure on the FBI.
To which Akai amusingly commented that Conan DIDN'T actually believe the in FBI. 

As for the prior incident, the bugging of Rena was accidental, but Conan had a contingency plan (sort of) to remove the suspicion on Kogoro. However that was pretty much thrown into disarray when Kogoro wouldn't cooperate. 

Conan's weakness is NOT that he recklessly endangers those around him, but because he shoulders the burden pretty much alone.
This in turn has caused his plan to fail disastrously on a previous occasion. (Because he was trying to protect Ai, Conan did not tell her about his plan (which did not involve her); when Ai showed up unexpectedly, it resulted in her almost getting killed and Vermouth escaping.) 


As for Okiya's true identity, he can't be a Black Organization member, since as far as the Black Organization (minus Vermouth) knows, Shinichi is dead. However Conan told Okiya that he'll send Shinichi a message later implying that he is alive.

Currently the only (known) factions that Conan trusts but don't know Conan's true identity are the Mouri household, the Metropolitan Police and the FBI.
- Since Ran doesn't know Okiya except for the feeling that she has seen him before (Most of the Okiya=Akai theories originate from this), he can't be a (close) relative of the Mouri household.
- So that leaves the Metropolitan Police and the FBI.

As for why Conan doesn't want Ran talking to Okiya about Shinichi, I believe he is more concerned with Ran finding out his identity than Okiya. 

[chitz38]

hmmmm good points! Oh and i totally forgot the "ill send shinichi a message later" angle, thats something.

[SkyVenger]

Wouldn't He assume that the man helping her is Professor Agasa? She is living in his house in the first place.

Hm, I guess Gin does not know this... He doesn't even know the girl's address.
But anyways, the man he's looking for and the one he assumes to be Haibara's helper is really Shinichi, but at one point in time became Kogoro because of circumstances (see discussion earlier).

Okiya Bourbon being a new member means he most likely doesn't know most the things that goes on in BO, he most likely is just on a mission without a clue about Sherry since if he does, their first encounter would hav blown their cover.

Are you trying to say here that Bourbon's mission in Beika (assuming Okiya is Bourbon) is different and not to know Sherry's whereabouts and he coincidentally just be staying at a house near Haibara's?

It could not be just "another mission" (if Okiya = Bourbon) because staying in apartments/hotels is usually linked to surveillance/long-time tracking missions (most likely it's Sherry if O=B). But then again, Gin says that Sherry must have left Beika, so he would command the lower ranked members to scout/search in another area.

As for Okiya's true identity, he can't be a Black Organization member, since as far as the Black Organization (minus Vermouth) knows, Shinichi is dead. However Conan told Okiya that he'll send Shinichi a message later implying that he is alive.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for why Conan doesn't want Ran talking to Okiya about Shinichi, I believe he is more concerned with Ran finding out his identity than Okiya.  ::)

Yeah, I agree. I believe Conan most likely knows the guy because even if Okiya doesn't belong to Conan's "trusted factions", there are no signs of Conan showing suspicion against him. And of course, hiding the truth to Ran is self-explanatory

And that text message implies not only the well-being of Shinichi Kudo, but it also bears the purpose of separating the Conan and Shinichi identities to the listener (Okiya), but I guess he'll find out the truth soon enough.

Note: Why would my very very far relative have the keys to my house anyway? 

[SkyVenger]

The only possible case where Okiya is BO is when Conan expects him to be some 'person' he knows when the truth is that this 'person' was made to confess and was killed by the BO, and then someone disguises in his place (Bourbon? lol). Whoa , what a scenario, but I guess this has only 1% probability.

[Nyarl]

It's not just the risk that the infiltrator would escape and let the Org know about Conan helping the FBI… It's that he stayed at the hospital, in full Conan getup, glasses, bowtie, everything, still openly interacting with the FBI while knowing full well the hospital would be watched and attacked somehow by the Org after the infiltrator failed to report back.  Why not at least dump the glasses and bowtie for a while and wear a T-shirt? It seems to me that he's either overconfident or figures that Gin is already thinking that he's some sort of gofer/messenger for whoever helped Sherry, tried to trap Vodka and helped the FBI disrupt an assassination and capture Kir. So, I still think Conan is capable of taking such a risk, out of perceived necessity and/or hubris.

[SkyVenger]

It's not just the risk that the infiltrator would escape and let the Org know about Conan helping the FBI… It's that he stayed at the hospital, in full Conan getup, glasses, bowtie, everything, still openly interacting with the FBI while knowing full well the hospital would be watched and attacked somehow by the Org after the infiltrator failed to report back.  Why not at least dump the glasses and bowtie for a while and wear a T-shirt? It seems to me that he's either overconfident or figures that Gin is already thinking that he's some sort of gofer/messenger for whoever helped Sherry, tried to trap Vodka and helped the FBI disrupt an assassination and capture Kir. So, I still think Conan is capable of taking such a risk, out of perceived necessity and/or hubris.

Maybe he's quite capable and confident because he assumes that Gin will never think that a kid is helping Sherry and setting all those bugs and tracking devices. It's because it contrasts common logic. However, when he sees a shrunken Sherry, I think he would come to understand everything.

[Rellik]

he wouldn't just understand anything, all of them would be gone in a second.

[Nyarl]

It's not just the risk that the infiltrator would escape and let the Org know about Conan helping the FBI… It's that he stayed at the hospital, in full Conan getup, glasses, bowtie, everything, still openly interacting with the FBI while knowing full well the hospital would be watched and attacked somehow by the Org after the infiltrator failed to report back.  Why not at least dump the glasses and bowtie for a while and wear a T-shirt? It seems to me that he's either overconfident or figures that Gin is already thinking that he's some sort of gofer/messenger for whoever helped Sherry, tried to trap Vodka and helped the FBI disrupt an assassination and capture Kir. So, I still think Conan is capable of taking such a risk, out of perceived necessity and/or hubris.

Maybe he's quite capable and confident because he assumes that Gin will never think that a kid is helping Sherry and setting all those bugs and tracking devices. It's because it contrasts common logic. However, when he sees a shrunken Sherry, I think he would come to understand everything.

We know though that Conan isn't really beneath Gin's notice after Gin specifically ordered him to be shot along with Kogoro. Being seen with the FBI after that seems extremely dangerous for Kogoro and Ran…

Meh, we're going around in circles, and it's only tangentially related to this topic at this point... Maybe I'll start a, "Is Conan too vain and reckless," or a thread about Gin's suspicions sometime...

[avidfan]

Meh, we're going around in circles, and it's only tangentially related to this topic at this point... Maybe I'll start a, "Is Conan too vain and reckless," or a thread about Gin's suspicions sometime...

yeh, ur topic is abt gin & conan

[Pocky]

Do you really think, shinichi would let anyone suspicious stay in his house so easily? I don't think so, There are two possibilitys:


1. Okiya is Akai in disguise

2. Okia is someone simmilar to Akai, someone who want to destroy the organisation and was told to contact conan in case that something should happen to Akai.


Remember, there is no evidence that Ai  would not react to Akai like she reacts when is is near another memeber. The only time she saw Akai was in the bus case, and we don't know if her reaction was because of Akai or Vermouth or both.

That are the two possiblilies I hope for

zurah

We know that Haibara can sense Akai.
Watch episode 311, 23:05.

[ten]

I was looking at file 640 and some information on the alcoholic drinks named after the code names of the Black Organization members, and figured out what drink Okiya is drinking:



It's interesting enough that a real bourbon and a reference image of that whiskey was really used in a drawing like that =).

It's Maker's Mark Bourbon Kentucky Straight (a 90 proof premium whiskey)

Some noticeable disparities between the logo (perhaps for just copyright protection or maybe even a clue ):

The logo in the manga that is encircled is "S W"
The real logo says something like "S IV", where the second one is a roman numeral: (from wikipedia): The seal on the bottle says "S IV". This mark indicates that the Samuels family (generation #4) is now in charge of the distilling process.

The text for the type of drink is also changed around a little bit ("Bourbon" is moved to the next line before "WHISKEY" and enlarged, likely so we can see the word "Bourbon" clearly.)

So a clue or just changed for aesthetic/copyright reasons? 

Here is a good pic of the real stuff: