A Possible Questionable New theory Hairbaba still Bo?

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

A few things:  Haibara's statement, The fact that Gin did not kill her on the roof (he likely a markman ), Akia knowing exactly where the BO would show up to threaten Kogoro ( the chance of Akia showing up where he was to threat Gin is beyond lucky ), Pisco delaying in shooting her (why did he talk about it. It almost like he was waiting for something )

Gin was torturing Haibara trying to get her to spill how she escaped from the room. We know this because Vodka commented that he didn't think she would talk.
Akai could guess which building the B.O. would show up on because they would need to pick one reasonably close and perpendicular to the windows to get the best shot. Also Akai picked a building far back not only to hide from them, but also to increase the range he could cover successfully on the off chance they didn't pick the one right across the street. Akai figured they would head to the detective agency if the tracker was discovered. Akai didn't know Kogoro should have been over at Agasa's.
As for Pisco chatting, some people like to gloat a little; he didn't wait long before preparing to pull the trigger.  

I can see things both ways as far as Akia is concerned. You said it seemed to be to likely a trick, and I know you can refute any evidence otherwise but the fingerprints matching, The police coming, and Gin not shooting Akia again just to make sure. If I was Gin and I wanted to make sure Kir would not try to trick me I do the following:

Search Kir and remove all weapons. Load the Gun I give her for shooting Akia myself. Allow no more contact for Kir basically Guard her myself.Keep some one with her until I call them off and then keep a very close watch on her in range of a long range gun.

If Akia surivied and it is possible he did, then what the BO did in your words was "absurdly dysfunctional" unless they wanted Akia alive. If so then Why? Any plan the FBI made would likely be known to a very highly placed MOLE. It is also likely the CIA also has a highly placed MOLE.

Gin did do something similar to what you suggested. He gave her the gun she was to use, then kept her under watch until the moment when she was to wait out for Akai. The problem Gin noted was that Akai "has a sharp nose", so basically Gin couldn't get too close during the meeting although he could be nearby and no one else could tag along with Kir. Basically Kir had a little time to herself that could not be removed from the plan. All Kir had to do was load blank bullets that she had kept hidden with her long ahead of time without getting caught. Also, it is clear that the planning was done only between Conan, Akai, and Hidemi. No one else is in the loop so no moles will learn about the deception. Also I think it I pertinent to point out that there is currently is no evidence of BO moles among the FBI agents we have met, so to make that assumption is a bit reckless.
Edit: A bit late for this, but I did explain the fingerprints on the phone in the how Akai could have survived theory section.

Yes Pisco shoot at a voice, but do we know what he was shooting? Blanks would also make holes in the boxes.

No blanks don't. Otherwise they would be bullets. Kyuu would point out that occasionally the wad or some shrapnel occasionally becomes a projectile which can be lethal, but that is unintended.

I thought Akai figured out that after Kogoro was at Kir's apartment and accidently a bug was attached to Kir, Gin would first of all suspect Kogoro. Seems reasonable to me.

Actually Jodie told him what happened with the tracker. All Akai said was Ok. Jodie was grumpy Akai didn't keep her in the loop.

I don't think Gin and the rest (except for Vermouth) even know about this "living forever" goal. After all Gin isn't aware about the true nature of the drug.

Again if the theory is right, and I not saying for certain it is, then Gin would indeed know.
Again this point: We know that Haibara knows, the underling under her would know, her parents would know, the BOSS would know, and Vermouth would know if she took the drug. Pisco if he did not know before knew before he 'died'. I think he had time to possibility tell an underling. So if Gin did not know by your though, there are lots of possible times someone could have leaked it to someone and he heard it. I am sure there are rumors going around the BO about what the drug does. Also after Haibara left, why wouldn't the BO check the list of 'dead' people the drug caused because her checking them off would become suspect.

My impression is that APTX 4869 as it stood is still in development and that it just so happened in its current state happened to function very well as a poison, so was adapted for that purpose. I think Gin, who Gosho indicated in the Conan manual is a direct subordinate to the boss, knows what the goal of the 4869 project is. The Syndicate did check the list of dead people because one of the deaths was unconfirmed: Shinichi's. It wasn't just Shiho investigating the house either. Other agents were there too and they probably came to the same conclusion and stuck to it even after Shiho betrayed them. Also Sherry may not have made a big deal about her shrinking mouse discovery, and thus they don't know about that side effect... otherwise Gin wouldn't be wondering how Sherry escaped a room with a laundry shaft.

[Kor]

I thought Akai figured out that after Kogoro was at Kir's apartment and accidently a bug was attached to Kir, Gin would first of all suspect Kogoro. Seems reasonable to me.

Actually Jodie told him what happened with the tracker. All Akai said was Ok. Jodie was grumpy Akai didn't keep her in the loop.

I know that. Akai couldn't have known without Jodie. I meant that after Jodie told him what happened with the tracker, he figured it out.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I thought Akai figured out that after Kogoro was at Kir's apartment and accidently a bug was attached to Kir, Gin would first of all suspect Kogoro. Seems reasonable to me.

Actually Jodie told him what happened with the tracker. All Akai said was Ok. Jodie was grumpy Akai didn't keep her in the loop.

I know that. Akai couldn't have known without Jodie. I meant that after Jodie told him what happened with the tracker, he figured it out.

Whoops, I misunderstood you then. Sorry.

[kkslider5552000]

A few things:  Haibara's statement, The fact that Gin did not kill her on the roof (he likely a markman ), Akia knowing exactly where the BO would show up to threaten Kogoro ( the chance of Akia showing up where he was to threat Gin is beyond lucky ), Pisco delaying in shooting her (why did he talk about it. It almost like he was waiting for something )

I thought Akai figured out that after Kogoro was at Kir's apartment and accidently a bug was attached to Kir, Gin would first of all suspect Kogoro. Seems reasonable to me.

You are missing the point. Of all the buildings around the office how did he pick the one that Gin would pick. It almost seems like he required foreknowledge.

I think you are the one who tries to 'find' a point.

oh yeah, that's what his gimmick is. Thanks!

[sstimson]

A few things:  Haibara's statement, The fact that Gin did not kill her on the roof (he likely a markman ), Akai knowing exactly where the BO would show up to threaten Kogoro ( the chance of Akai showing up where he was to threat Gin is beyond lucky ), Pisco delaying in shooting her (why did he talk about it. It almost like he was waiting for something )

Akai could guess which building the B.O. would show up on because they would need to pick one reasonably close and perpendicular to the windows to get the best shot. Also Akai picked a building far back not only to hide from them, but also to increase the range he could cover successfully on the off chance they didn't pick the one right across the street. Akai figured they would head to the detective agency if the tracker was discovered. Akai didn't know Kogoro should have been over at Agasa's.

I disagree (no surprise) And I think I can prove my view.First Akai is a very good and important agent of the FBI. So when this starts he should be near the bridge where the FBI thinks the Bo is going.this is before the tracker is found.when the Bo turns the bridge and being near the Bridge would put him father away from the Bo.

Since that is the case I think he was watching Kogoro. When Kogoro left Agasa's, Akai followed him. I agree he heard about the Bo heading towards the office and then got set up. Using GIN's own words

Spoiler:

So see Akia had to know where Kogoro was or he could not have been able to set up. Akai was west of Gin

Spoiler:

But the question remains. Why did the FBI take Akai off the main action, and put him in guard duty? And another question , (but only if my theory is right) is when did Gin let him know where to set up. If the Two ( GIN and AKAI ) were not working together, then why did not Akai take out Gin? That second shoot only a inch omved could have killed GIN.

Also on the theory of shooting blanks at point blank range

Spoiler:

Remember two stars were killed by blanks at point blank range:

Fatal accidents

In general, deaths or injuries from blanks occur when blanks are fired by people who are unaware of their destructive capabilities. Actors in particular are at serious risk of injury from blank cartridges used on movie sets. Several famous actors have been killed in such mishaps:

    * Brandon Lee was killed when a gun containing a squib load (a bullet accidentally stuck in the barrel) was fired with a blank cartridge while filming a scene, which propelled the lodged bullet down the barrel. As reported in the investigation and court records, when blanks were loaded into the gun by someone other than the firearms expert, the bullet left in the barrel by the squib shot was propelled out of the barrel on the first shot.[citation needed]
    * Jon-Erik Hexum was killed when he placed a blank-loaded gun to his head and pulled the trigger—he did not realize the blanks had sufficient force to push the wad from the blank through his skull, sending bone fragments deep into his brain. [4]

From Blank (cartridge) From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blank_(cartridge)
So such a shoot would have killed Akai and that means the only way for Akai to survive such a shot is for KIR to be using a Cap Gun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cap_gun 

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I disagree (no surprise) And I think I can prove my view.First Akia is a very good and important agent of the FBI. So when this starts he should be near the bridge where the FBI thinks the Bo is going.this is before the tracker is found.when the Bo turns the bridge and being near the Bridge would put him father away from the Bo.
Since that is the case I think he was watching Kogoro. When Kogoro left Agasa's, Akia followed him. I agree he heard about the Bo heading towards the office and then got set up. Using GIN's own words

Spoiler:

So see Akia had to know where Kogoro was or he could not have been able to set up. Akia was west of Gin

Spoiler:

Akai's actions are unknown during the entire time Jodie and Conan were trying to intercept the assassination. Also Akai went ahead and did his own thing without telling anyone, including his boss James.

Spoiler:

I think the point that Gosho was trying to get across is that Akai thought far enough ahead to stake out Mouri's office by setting up on that building well before Gin found the transmitter. In short, Akai guessed what was going to happen and planned accordingly to set a trap for Gin and friends. If you go by what Gin said - that Akai could not have been there unless he had prepared well in advance - that means Akai could not have followed Kogoro from Agasa's and gotten set up in time. In other words, he was camped out in front of the empty detective office. I'm guessing Jodie didn't tell him about Kogoro being over at Agasa's, but even if Akai did know, he would of waited at the detective office anyway because the B.O. wouldn't know where Kogoro was and would assume he was at the detective agency. Indeed, the operatives did show up at the detective agency like Akai guessed.

But the question remains. Why did the FBI take Akia off the main action, and put him in guard duty?

They didn't, Akai chose to do that himself.

And another question , (but only if my theory is right) is when did Gin let him know where to set up. If the Two ( GIN and AKIA ) were not working together, then why did not Akia take out Gin? That second shoot only a inch omved could have killed GIN.

If you reread that chapter, you will see that Akai stated the reason he didn't kill Gin. Also, they aren't working together.

Spoiler:

You are completely misunderstanding the point and the structure of blanks. Blanks are NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE PROJECTILES. I'll explain: cartridges - the things which are loaded into guns- have three basic components: the bullet, the gunpowder, and the primer. The bullet is the dense bit of metal at the front end of the cartridge. The rest of the cartridge that isn't the bullet is called the case. The case contains the primer - similar to a cap - which when struck by the gun's hammer ignites the gunpowder. The gunpowder explodes and the force pushes the bullet out of the barrel at a high speed. The case - which is not fired out of the gun - is then ejected. Cases are those cylindrical objects that pop out of the side of the gun. I'm sure you've seen them in a movie or video game somewhere when someone fires an automatic weapon and streams of them come pouring out the side of the weapon.
Blanks are a form of dud where there is no bullet, basically it's a wad of paper or something similar attached to a case that has working gunpowder and a primer. If a blank works the way it is supposed to, the wad disintegrates so there is no projectile. The gunpowder goes off, there is a bang and recoil like there would be if you were firing a working cartridge with a bullet, and a case is ejected: the only difference is that nothing solid comes out of the barrel of the gun.
Now as Kyuu and you mentioned, blanks can malfunction, basically bits of something came out of the muzzle of the gun with enough force to kill or damage. These aren't bullets, instead it's a part of the wad that didn't disintegrate like it was supposed to or bits of shrapnel.

If you are interested in Akai's death and how it may have been faked I suggest you head on over to main Akai thread and start reading. Here is a link to get you started: url=http://forums.dctp.ws/viewtopic.php?t=161.195msg21608#msg21608

[sstimson]

I am NOT wrong about blanks. Since you did not read the link I send here more. Plase read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blank_(cartridge)

Safety

The appearance of a blank cartridge is deceptively harmless and can give a false sense of safety. Although blank cartridges do not contain a bullet, precautions are still required because fatalities and severe injuries have resulted on occasions when blank cartridges have been fired at very close ranges.

Blank cartridges frequently contain a paper, wood or plastic plug called a wad which seals the powder in the case. This wad can cause severe penetrating wounds at close range and bruising at medium ranges. There is also a cloud of hot, expanding gas which is expelled at extremely high velocity from the muzzle when a blank cartridge is fired. These high velocity gases can inflict severe injuries (see powerhead for an example) at close ranges. Additionally, if there is any small debris lodged inside the barrel it will be expelled at a velocity similar to that of a bullet, with the ability to inflict a severe or lethal wound. Finally, the extremely loud noise of blanks being fired can damage the hearing of people in the immediate area.

Also, cartridges loaded with wadcutter target bullets and cartridges for the Nagant revolver can be mistaken for blanks because the bullet does not protrude past the mouth of the cartridge casing. Shotshell cartridges known as "snake shot" or "rat shot" used in rifles or handguns for pest control have the shot charge sealed with cardboard or plasic wads or the ends may be crimped or folded in a manner similar to that of blank cartridges.

4) ^ A. Giese "Head injury by gunshots from blank cartridges", Surgical Neurology, Volume 57, Issue 4, Pages 268-277

Please read the stuff in bold. My point is blanks can kill at close range.
[edit] Fatal accidents

In general, deaths or injuries from blanks occur when blanks are fired by people who are unaware of their destructive capabilities. Actors in particular are at serious risk of injury from blank cartridges used on movie sets. Several famous actors have been killed in such mishaps:

    * Brandon Lee was killed when a gun containing a squib load (a bullet accidentally stuck in the barrel) was fired with a blank cartridge while filming a scene, which propelled the lodged bullet down the barrel. As reported in the investigation and court records, when blanks were loaded into the gun by someone other than the firearms expert, the bullet left in the barrel by the squib shot was propelled out of the barrel on the first shot.[citation needed]
    * Jon-Erik Hexum was killed when he placed a blank-loaded gun to his head and pulled the trigger—he did not realize the blanks had sufficient force to push the wad from the blank through his skull, sending bone fragments deep into his brain. [4]

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I thought you were still insisting that blanks had bullets. What Pisco fired in the Hyde City Hotel were definitely live rounds. Blanks wouldn't make holes like that. As for the risks of blanks, I fully understand what you quoted: the hot cloud of gas and shrapnel from point blank and even further back are dangerous and can be fatal. ... In real life.     Quoting an older post...

I don't think Gosho is going to nitpick over the reality of the dangers of blanks, especially when their drawbacks are often ignored in drama. Detective Conan is full of implausibilities and ideas which look fine on paper but would probably not go so smoothly in reality. Trying to approach it from an overly realistic point of view will prematurely eliminate possibilities which are fine literarily but not literally.

Basically, I think Gosho is probably going to ignore the fact that blanks can be dangerous much like how he ignored the fact that tasers are dangerous, especially for little kids. It's not the most satisfying explanation, but I believe that it is definitely plausible given how Gosho made certain aspects much larger than life like instant flawless disguise, voice changing (although I have to say this guy is good), or ten second knockout gas (doesn't exist - anyone remember the Moscow theater hostage crisis?).

[Abs.]

I love the parts where Conan sticks the speaker ON KOGOROU'S FREAKING FOREHEAD and no one notices.  Were those AOs?  I don't remember.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I love the parts where Conan sticks the speaker ON KOGOROU'S FREAKING FOREHEAD and no one notices.  Were those AOs?  I don't remember.

No, pretty sure they were manga cases. I'll edit my post after I find one of the scenes...
Right on the forehead in the Tengu of the mist case (110)

Spoiler:

also ep 160 which is an Ao
Base of the neck in 127 http://www.onemanga.com/Detective_Conan/127/06/
Base of the neck in 162 http://media4.onemanga.com/mangas/00000130/00000162/04.jpg

[sstimson]

You think they used blanks. But as I already suggested why not the old movie /western trick, the use of caps guns. A cap gun could be fired at point blank range with no harm. The problem is Gin would see through that in a second unless he was in on it.

From Cap gun From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cap_gun

A Cap gun or cap pistol is a toy gun that creates a loud sound akin to a gunshot and a puff of smoke when the trigger is pulled. Cap guns were originally made of cast iron, but after World War II were made of zinc alloy, and most newer models are made of plastic.

Cap guns became especially popular when the heroes of cinema and television rode through the West ridding the territories of villains. Many cap guns were named after or endorsed by leading matinee idols like Roy Rogers, Gene Autry, Hopalong Cassidy, The Lone Ranger, Tonto, Dale Evans, Marshal Matt Dillon, or any of countless others.

Cap guns in the United States[1] must be manufactured with a bright orange, red, or yellow tip placed over the "muzzle" of the cap gun, or with the entire gun made in these or other bright colors.[citation needed] Laws requiring these markings were made because of incidents where civilians - usually children or teenagers - were killed by police officers at times of low visibility (such as dusk or nightfall) when the officers thought they saw real guns, but these incidents were very rare.[citation needed]

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

The problem is Gin would see through that in a second unless he was in on it.

Which is why I think she used blanks. There was a casing and everything when she fired. Maybe Akai put a little metal panel under his beanie to diffuse the effect of the blood packet exploding and to protect against errant shrapnel. It wouldn't do much for the hot cloud of powder, but Akai was probably willing to accept the danger. Do be sure to read that Akai thread link I gave you before. A lot of the same arguments have already been made before over there. It may save you and me some time from repeating the same arguments over.

[Abs.]

Thanks for those.

Suspension of disbelief is the key phrase here.

[sstimson]

The problem is Gin would see through that in a second unless he was in on it.

Which is why I think she used blanks. There was a casing and everything when she fired. Maybe Akai put a little metal panel under his beanie to diffuse the effect of the blood packet exploding and to protect against errant shrapnel. It wouldn't do much for the hot cloud of powder, but Akai was probably willing to except the danger. Do be sure to read that Akai thread link I gave you before. A lot of the same arguments have already been made before over there. It may save you and me some time from repeating the same arguments over.

I agree with you that if Gosho is going to ignore Real LIfe stuff like "BLANKS CAN KILL" then I can not use the fact the as blanks do kill, Akia had to be shot with a cap and since Gin would know about it, then Gin would be in on it.

Also I find it hard to believe that the BO would not have very high up MOLES in both the FBI and CIA. They seem to know when anything is threatening them.

Also Gin first says Kill all, then after Akai shows he pretends to agree with Vermouth. So why does he not try to kill Conan and company later?

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Also I find it hard to believe that the BO would not have very high up MOLES in both the FBI and CIA. They seem to know when anything is threatening them.

Maybe our definitions of high up are different. The planning for which van Rena would be in was done in front the full cast of FBI agents at the hospital. Since the plan worked, none of them leaked it since Gin had to figure out which van the Rena was in by himself.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Also Conan helped plan the thing in front of everyone and he is still alive. Basically none of other agents at the hospital were moles. There might be some more lower level agents not in on the plan, but I'm not sure about the FBI logistics. It's strange the FBI would be in Japan in the first place so I'm not sure what to say.

Also Gin first says Kill all, then after Akia shows he pretends to agree with Vermouth. So why does he not try to kill Conan and company later?

Vermouth convinced him that Kogoro was just bait. Gin isn't totally convinced that Kogoro is innocent, but he doesn't have any evidence that the tracker wasn't planted by the FBI as Vermouth had suggested. In fact, because Akai set up on a building near there, it looks like it was a plan by the FBI, not Kogoro. This was Akai's intent in the first place: to take the heat off of Kogoro. Without any evidence in favor and weak evidence to the contrary, Gin is up a creek. Gin is probably biding his time figuring that if Kogoro is really working with the FBI, more evidence will show up eventually.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Also Gin has no idea what Vermouth is doing and Vermouth hinted to Gin that she may be doing something in which Kogoro is a part. "Is there something between you and that detective?" "My, My. If there was what would you do?"  In the car later, Gin accepts Vermouth's explanation for the events by saying, "Hmpf, let's just say it was... only because Mouri Kogoro seems to be your favorite detective." It is easy to ascribe romantic undertones to this dialogue, but I think that Vermouth was trying to hint to Gin is that she had a plan that involved Kogoro and thus would not appreciate Gin mucking it up by killing Mouri. I think Gin caught onto that drift and was merely replying in kind. (Vermouth might have a plan involving Kogoro, but most likely she just made it up at the moment to protect Conan.)

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Finally, there may be group political reasons involved: fighting with Vermouth who is the boss's favorite might not be to Gin's benefit. He is picking and choosing his fights.