A Possible Questionable New theory Hairbaba still Bo?

[sstimson]

First:  I hope this is not a "

gimmick posting

" as kkslider5552000 suggested I do here

someone tell sstimson to stop with the gimmick posting, it's not really working and that last post made it impossible for anyone to take him seriously. We're starting to get too many gimmick posters anyway.

As I have no idea what that means, please open a new topic and explain exactly what a "

gimmick posting

" is. As I have no idea, how can I be doing that unless this is another of kkslider5552000 statements that

Cause no one could actually have taken what I said seriously.  else

Second: I hope this theory has not already been stated As I do not mean to be spamming someone else's ideas.

And that the Disclaimers are out of the way the theory

is it possible that Sherry "escape" from the BO was part of the BO's plan. Her own statements about Conan being part of a event great then himself leads me to think of this idea. So far we only have Sherry word that she escaped. The BO's plan might be to get her close to Conan to further their goals. This might be why Conan was shrunk in the first place. This might be also why the BO seems to find a reason to keep him alive from behind the scenes. It seem to me that if the BO really wanted somebody gone, nothing and no one can stop them. Is is possible they know all and are keeping a very close watch on Conan? This would add to the ideas of the Professor, Ran, or other persons close to Conan being the BOSS.

[kkslider5552000]

I'm so popular <3


wow my post seems kinda creepy now...


and I can't see that happening considering the whole "killed my sister" thing.

[sstimson]

Well considering Camel escaped death, and how many people believe that Akai is still alive, it might be possible we get yet another " thinks are not as they appear" and Haibara's sister is still alive. This show shows every episode that People can fooled. (well except Conan, though maybe even he can be ... )

[kkslider5552000]

Well considering Camel escaped death, and how many people believe that Akia is still alive, it might be possible we get yet another " thinks are not as they appear" and Haibara's sister is still alive.

but that would be retarded

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I think your theory can be classified as improbable because either the BO is absurdly dysfunctional or would require impossible omniscience to predict how Conan would act in certain situations. Also, your plan requires overly elaborate explanations to explain the motivations for certain characters' actions in order to keep it consistent with the idea that they are only acting.
One thing that is very clear is that several B.O. members obviously tried to kill Haibara and Conan. For example, Pisco in the Hyde Cty Hotel attempted to shoot Conan who he thought was hiding behind/in a box of ethanol. Gin and Vodka also put a bomb in a bullet train with Conan in it. Could they be sure that Conan would find the bomb in time? No. These examples run contrary to your theory that the Org was keeping Conan around for observation. Also, there are several scenes where deception would be improbable to assume. Gin was telling someone over the phone during the Natsume Sōseki forgery case he wanted the traitor (Haibara) dead or alive: presuming he is speaking to another member of the organization, who does Gin have around to fool? It's only him in the car with the readers observing.
Thus, I am forced to make the conclusion that the boss must have not told Gin or Pisco what his true intent was, which is stupid because Gin or Pisco might and did try to kill Conan. It would take a special kind of moron to want one thing but order his subordinates to do something completely counter productive to that goal. After all, Ai gave out important information about the Org, and Vermouth who was looking for Sherry wound up getting caught in Conan's trap which also allowed Conan to learn important information. If the B.O. is merely pretending to look for Sherry to trick Conan into accepting her, then the gambit was a terrible idea because Conan learned lots of incriminating info because of it.
The boss is almost certainly not professor Agasa, Kogoro, Yusaku or someone like that. It would require the plot to tie itself into knots. It is simply better to use Occam's razor for these kinds of theories: the simplest explanation that covers all the facts is probably the best one; Agasa, Kogoro, and Yusaku are genuine protagonists like they seem to be because there is no evidence suggesting otherwise. The same goes for Akemi's death. Her death scene had an appropriate sense of finality and didn't leave the taste that something could be wrong or there potentially was a trick.

I think what kkslider5552000 means by "gimmick posting" is a theory that explains some fact or suspicion using a gimmick - Haibara is still on the BO's side in this case - but otherwise has no other supporting evidence or blatantly contradicts with other evidence. Some people get irritated with theories like these because Detective Conan is a rational series; given the initial premise and some evidence, there is a rational explanation consistent with it that can be deduced from the evidence without having to resort to invoking something that casts into doubt the initial premise. Detective Conan is not a "mind screw" series like Lost where just about anything is possible.

In summary:
Theory that seems to have evidence to support it (Okiya is Akai or Okiya is Bourbon): Good
Theory that doesn't have evidence or very weak evidence to support it but doesn't contradict with anything: (Kogoro has plot important relatives. Ai's parents alive): Also fine
Theory that doesn't have evidence to support it and contradicts with other things (Agasa is the boss, Eisuke is a member of the B.O.): May make people grumpy if you take it seriously.

[sstimson]

The boss is almost certainly not professor Agasa, Kogoro, Yusaku or someone like that. It would require the plot to tie itself into knots. It is simply better to use Occam's razor for these kinds of theories: the simplest explanation that covers all the facts is probably the best one; Agasa, Kogoro, and Yusaku are genuine protagonists like they seem to be because there is no evidence suggesting otherwise. The same goes for Akemi's death. Her death scene had an appropriate sense of finality and didn't leave the taste that something could be wrong or there potentially was a trick.

Questioning your statement about why  Akai being alive so possible but it not possible for Akemi to be. Let me explain why: Both require the following the police on the scene to be in on it. Akai must have use a blood pack. Why couldn't Akemi do the same? Both appear dead. Both were leave for dead. So again why is it possible for one to be alive and require the other be dead?

Gin and Vodka also put a bomb in a bullet train with Conan in it.

I wish to remind you that while it does look like that in the manga it is very much false in the anime.
Also while Conan is on the same train as then and there is no question they did see him they were after someone else. see here:

Spoiler:

She is the one they were after not Conan. Also does blowing a car of a train mean all other cars will for sure be destroyed?

[Abs.]

I wish to remind you that while it does look like that in the manga it is very much false in the anime.

Worst argument ever.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Questioning your statement about why  Akai being alive so possible but it not possible for Akemi to be. Let me explain why: Both require the following the police on the scene to be in on it. Akia must have use a blood pack. Why couldn't Akemi do the same? Both appear dead. Both were leave for dead. So again why is it possible for one to be alive and require the other be dead?

You're comparing apples and oranges; the quality of the evidence supporting trickery is vastly different between the two. With Akai's death, disappearing bloodstains indicate that something strange occurred - the body in the seat changed somehow. Also the circumstances are suspicious: the police conveniently came by because of a convenient accident. There are several highly plausible theories how faking Akai's death could have been done. Also the scene lacked the sense of finality Akemi's had; it felt like there was a trick. And then Okiya shows up...
Akemi on the other hand died in Conan's arms. Conan would have noticed if she was faking death. There is no precedent for anything like a "fake death pill". It isn't absolute that Akemi is dead and Akai is alive, it's just really really likely.

I wish to remind you that while it does look like that in the manga it is very much false in the anime.
Also while Conan is on the same train as then and there is no question they did see him they were after someone else. see here:

Spoiler:

She is the one they were after not Conan. Also does blowing a car of a train mean all other cars will for sure be destroyed?

The manga has canon precidence over the anime, so it doesn't matter that the anime is different. Regarding the train, would Gin and Vodka risk the chance Conan might be killed if he is such an important project? While I believe my point about the train example still holds, there is still the Pisco example to consider. Also, why would the org try very, very hard to kill Haibara when she is supposed to be watching Conan according to your theory? That seems counterproductive and unintuitive; it might be worth acting out attacking her once to gain his trust, but it is obvious Conan comes to trust Haibara relatively quickly. Why do they need to keep attacking her when she has already gained Conan's trust? Finally, the plan is terrible because Conan wound up with a lot of knowledge about the organization. Wouldn't it be a heck of a lot easier just to kidnap Conan and lock him up somewhere and experiment on him that way? There is no risk of info escaping that way and it's a lot simpler.

I am kind of curious now, what scenes led you to come up with this theory? I could see the locker scene with Gin and Conan being one of them and maybe also scar Akai/Bourbon shooting the bank robber and saving Conan for another, but what about scenes with Haibara?

Regarding the locker scene with Gin, kite came up with an interesting twist on it that's worth looking at if you haven't seen it already.

[kkslider5552000]

I think what kkslider5552000 means by "gimmick posting" is a theory that explains some fact or suspicion using a gimmick - Haibara is still on the BO's side in this case - but otherwise has no other supporting evidence or blatantly contradicts with other evidence. Some people get irritated with theories like these because Detective Conan is a rational series; given the initial premise and some evidence, there is a rational explanation consistent with it that can be deduced from the evidence without having to resort to invoking something that casts into doubt the initial premise. Detective Conan is not a "mind screw" series like Lost where just about anything is possible.

No, I meant gimmick posting as in someone who posts in a way by using a gimmick or some type of (usually exaggerated and/or absurd) character and being as consistent as possible with said gimmick or character. With that being said, I don't remember exactly what his gimmick is. I want to say your explanation is a perfect example of it but I'm not sure.

but yes for this specific topic, I do mean that that would be "retarded" because it is not rational. It also seems horrible from a "I want this show's plot to not suck" perspective.

[sstimson]

I am kind of curious now, what scenes led you to come up with this theory? I could see the locker scene with Gin and Conan being one of them and maybe also scar Akai/Bourbon shooting the bank robber and saving Conan for another, but what about scenes with Haibara?

Regarding the locker scene with Gin, kite came up with an interesting twist on it that's worth looking at if you haven't seen it already.

A few things:  Haibara's statement, The fact that Gin did not kill her on the roof (he likely a markman ), Akai knowing exactly where the BO would show up to threaten Kogoro ( the chance of Akai showing up where he was to threat Gin is beyond lucky ), Pisco delaying in shooting her (why did he talk about it. It almost like he was waiting for something )

As for worrying about killing Conan, I ask this question (VERY FAR FETCHED). We know the Bo is working on living longer, possibly forever. I would think if they are working on that, they could also be working on invincabilty, and if that is another side effect of the drug then they can not kill Conan or Sherry and possibly vermouth as well as it seems likely she also took the drug.

I can see things both ways as far as Akai is concerned. You said it seemed to be to likely a trick, and I know you can refute any evidence otherwise but the fingerprints matching, The police coming, and Gin not shooting Akai again just to make sure. If I was Gin and I wanted to make sure Kir would not try to trick me I do the following:

Search Kir and remove all weapons. Load the Gun I give her for shooting Akai myself. Allow no more contact for Kir basically Guard her myself.Keep some one with her until I call them off and then keep a very close watch on her in range of a long range gun.

If Akai surivied and it is possible he did, then what the BO did in your words was "absurdly dysfunctional" unless they wanted Akai alive. If so then Why? Any plan the FBI made would likely be known to a very highly placed MOLE. It is also likely the CIA also has a highly placed MOLE. Yes Pisco shoot at a voice, but do we know what he was shooting? Blanks would also make holes in the boxes.

You right This is mostly theory with very little evidence. A lot needs to happen off screen. I am basically asking questions about some of the illogical parts of this story.

[Kor]

A few things:  Haibara's statement, The fact that Gin did not kill her on the roof (he likely a markman ), Akia knowing exactly where the BO would show up to threaten Kogoro ( the chance of Akia showing up where he was to threat Gin is beyond lucky ), Pisco delaying in shooting her (why did he talk about it. It almost like he was waiting for something )

I thought Akai figured out that after Kogoro was at Kir's apartment and accidently a bug was attached to Kir, Gin would first of all suspect Kogoro. Seems reasonable to me.

As for worrying about killing Conan, I ask this question (VERY FAR FETCHED). We know the Bo is working on living longer, possibly forever. I would think if they are working on that, they could also be working on invincabilty, and if that is another side effect of the drug then they can not kill Conan or Sherry and possibly vermouth as well as it seems likely she also took the drug.

I don't think Gin and the rest (except for Vermouth) even know about this "living forever" goal. After all Gin isn't aware about the true nature of the drug.

[sstimson]

A few things:  Haibara's statement, The fact that Gin did not kill her on the roof (he likely a markman ), Akai knowing exactly where the BO would show up to threaten Kogoro ( the chance of Akai showing up where he was to threat Gin is beyond lucky ), Pisco delaying in shooting her (why did he talk about it. It almost like he was waiting for something )

I thought Akai figured out that after Kogoro was at Kir's apartment and accidently a bug was attached to Kir, Gin would first of all suspect Kogoro. Seems reasonable to me.

You are missing the point. Of all the buildings around the office how did he pick the one that Gin would pick. It almost seems like he required foreknowledge.

As for worrying about killing Conan, I ask this question (VERY FAR FETCHED). We know the Bo is working on living longer, possibly forever. I would think if they are working on that, they could also be working on invincabilty, and if that is another side effect of the drug then they can not kill Conan or Sherry and possibly vermouth as well as it seems likely she also took the drug.

I don't think Gin and the rest (except for Vermouth) even know about this "living forever" goal. After all Gin isn't aware about the true nature of the drug.

Again if the theory is right, and I not saying for certain it is, then Gin would indeed know.

Again this point: We know that Haibara knows, the underling under her would know, her parents would know, the BOSS would know, and Vermouth would know if she took the drug. Pisco if he did not know before knew before he 'died'. I think he had time to possibility tell an underling. So if Gin did not know by your though, there are lots of possible times someone could have leaked it to someone and he heard it. I am sure there are rumors going around the BO about what the drug does. Also after Haibara left, why wouldn't the BO check the list of 'dead' people the drug caused because her checking them off would become suspect.

[Abs.]

1. If I see "Akia" one more time...

2. Gee, I wonder which direction would be best to shoot at Kogorou from...  Through the wall?  No, I suspect through the window would be a LOT easier.   

[GinRei]

1. If I see "Akia" one more time...

I drove past a kia lot earlier this week...

[Kor]

A few things:  Haibara's statement, The fact that Gin did not kill her on the roof (he likely a markman ), Akia knowing exactly where the BO would show up to threaten Kogoro ( the chance of Akia showing up where he was to threat Gin is beyond lucky ), Pisco delaying in shooting her (why did he talk about it. It almost like he was waiting for something )

I thought Akai figured out that after Kogoro was at Kir's apartment and accidently a bug was attached to Kir, Gin would first of all suspect Kogoro. Seems reasonable to me.

You are missing the point. Of all the buildings around the office how did he pick the one that Gin would pick. It almost seems like he required foreknowledge.

I think you are the one who tries to 'find' a point. Gin had two snipers with him so it would be logical to assume he would be on a building which you can point a gun from right at Kogoro's head. And Akai was on a very high building from which he could view all the buildings that could be used to target Kogoro.

plus, (you made me look at the case just to make sure I'm correct) at the very same case, Gin orders Chianti and Korn to kill Kogoro along with Conan. If Akai wouldn't have interrupted, they would have done that.