Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

[pofa]

Since confuse doesn't work on arrest, I  wouldn't see a problem with the BO being able to use it. (I think hinder is stronger than confuse, tbh.)

Yamamura would be a strong disguise for the BO, but no stronger than someone like Eri, who can let someone out of jail and stop a lynch, or Akai, who can kill another player, or Nakamori, who can auto-arrest Kid and Yukiko. The GM would just need to balance the rest of the BO to account for the strong disguise.

RM'd. XD But how does Vermouth's killing action have to do with confuse being too strong?

[Yurikochan]

You figure out Yamamura's disguised and can't even be caught as Vermouth correctly.

[pofa]

Isn't that true with any disguise, though? I guess I'm asking how the Yamamura disguise is different from the others when it comes to her killing action? Since she can still be arrested for the disguise on a night when she doesn't kill, and confuse can't stop that.

I guess if you mean she couldn't be investigated for the disguise because of confuse, the BO would have to know the investigator and could only stop one person a night from checking her. Rather than Yamamura, the BO could use Tequila to stop Vermouth from getting caught in that case.

[Yurikochan]

If they know you're an investigator they will most likely use it on you. It automatically happens and van't be stop, it kinda makes a role useless.

(Quite honestly, I don't like Yamamura's action at all so I think it would overpower the BO.)

[Akonyl]

any imbalance resulting from Vermouth being able to confuse people away from her could just as easily be applied to her discombobulating them instead, though.

if the issue is that Yamamura "can't be discombobulated" though, rather than that he can use Confuse, that can just as easily be moved to Confuse instead, so Vermouth-Yamamura wouldn't have the "can't be discombobulated" attached to her killing, only to "Confuse".

as for Yamamura's ability overpowering the BO, tbh the only overpowered thing I see about it is "redirect the BO killer to find him out / have him kill a buddy", which isn't something that a BO yammy would be able to do.

@confusing the investigator: Chances are they'd have vodka discombobulate the investigator anyway if he's in, and the chances that you know who Vodka is (to reverse-discombobulate him) is pretty low anyway.

[Yurikochan]

You can stop the discombob though. So make Yammy trickable too. :x

[Akonyl]

you can, but as I'm sayin it's very unlikely you know who Vodka is in the first place to trick him (or else he'd be lynched/arrested ), so it's pretty similar.

but anyway, I have no problem with making confuse trickable, as long as all the special cases are taken care of. Discombobulate was easy enough to make rules for if there's chains, but I foresaw things getting really weird in the case that yammy confused a discombobulation, especially if for whichever reason, he confused them towards himself. Eisuke bobs Shinichi, but Yammy confuses the bobber to act on him instead, so Eisuke bobs Yammy... which in turn means that yammy was never able to confuse the trickster in the first place, and so he never should have been bobbed? :V

it's an easier solution with just discombobulate because you can just say "both bobbers receive a message that their action failed", but while you could tell yammy that his action failed, what would you end up telling the trickster? With only tricksters, the only situations were really "Tricksters trick each-other and double-fail" or "tricksters trick in a chain and the one who wasn't tricked's happens first", but since yammy can change the way these chains would go, I decided instead to just make it non-trickable to avoid the conundrum.

[Yurikochan]

Quite honestly, I would hope the GM wouldn't have him trick himself...

Also what happened to Kazuha's Heiji ability?

[Akonyl]

if it was still up to the GM I'd agree that I wouldn't point it at yammy, but it's been changed to "yammy chooses victim + target", so he might want to direct things to himself in case he has a stakeouter buddy or something.

iirc the Heiji ability was removed because having abilities that are solely dependent on another role bein in the game is sort of weird (like jirokichi had his nakamori abiilty removed back when he was still in the game)

[Yurikochan]

Yammy gets himself killed. :x Excellent idea!

[Akonyl]

put it in your will who you confused that night, and there's a fair chance they'll get arrested

[Yurikochan]

Or you get suspended since you were the person they decided to kill.

[Akonyl]

what? If yammy confuses someone, causing himself to get killed by them, why would people get suspended for arresting that guy for killing yammy?

[Yurikochan]

Since it wasn't the killer you confused and Yammy's player was the intended death for the night.

[Akonyl]

ah, gotcha. And yes, that's another possibility, but if yammy dies and says "I confused X towards me", there's a pretty large chance they're the killer. A deduction list with 5 options gets people arrested for killings pretty often, so when there's two options I could see it catching a fair bit of killers. It may not be 100% effective, but I was just explaining ways that targeting himself would in fact be useful.

however, you were talking about the case where yammy gets himself killed, so that's what I was replying to.