Bourbon's Identity: Who is Bourbon!?

[MaitreDétective]

@ sstimon

Hey, you didn't comment my theory since it seems we have the same

[sstimson]

@ sstimon

Hey, you didn't comment my theory since it seems we have the same

and there is a reason for that. I found my first Kir is being miss lead post

One huge problem with Camel being a mole. If the BO knew for a fact that the FBI basically set up a plan for Rena to return, Then why would they not think that Rena is indeed a Mole herself and a plant. Camel must have known about the return plan if he went so far as to fake his death to the BO. If the BO knew he faked it , Then they would act right? They would likely kill Rena after she 'killed' Akia as then she would no longer be of any use.

There is a small possible of knowing she is a plant and feeding her false info. If that is so then it is likely thank the new BO does not really exist.

Later

I bolded it for you

Note I had this idea back in January 20 2009

According to your profile

Name: MaitreDétective
Posts: 280 (0.741 per day)
Position:
Date Registered: September 26, 2010, 12:47:15 PM

You appeared on the scene over 1 1/2 years after that post

need I say more? So it is more likely MY theory?

Anyway I spoilered your post

Spoiler:

Think about it

We never saw him nor did he do anything at all. He's just a random someone who has been mentionned by Gin. What if It's just a trap set up by him to lure the FBI. And why would Gosho bother introducing another dangerous foe when Conan already has Gin, Vodka, Vermouth and the BO Boss?

Who's with me?

Really? Someone mentionned this theory already? Aw man, I thought I had an awesome idea 

Anyway, I'd say:
- Bourbon doesn't exist, It's a trap
- Okiya is Akai
- Scar Akai is Vermouth ( thus this is why he/she saved Conan in the robbery case )
- Sera is Akai's sister

To the End of the above these are my current views

Bourbon doesn't exist, It's a trap

Bourbon is not a trap but a test code to see if Intel is leaking out of the BO.
An agent like Gin might go around and in place of " Bourbon" use different words to different agents which might be leaking BO secrets.
If any of those words make it to the CIA or FBI, they know they have a leak and who is doing the leaking.

Okiya is Akai

Okiya is exactly who he says he is and nothing more. Gosho's Red Herring

Scar Akai is Vermouth ( thus this is why he/she saved Conan in the robbery case )

Scar Akai is Akai. The scar because of Kir moving the gun at the last moment.

Spoiler:

Sera

is Akai's sister

This I doubt because

1) With all the screen time Akai has had and a view of his past, we should have learned of a sister before

Spoiler:

sera

entered the stage. If she is his sister Gosho would then have put her in at the last minute and he has suggested he has the whole thing planned out making that unlikely. I sure if Akai had a sister, we would have had a theory that Akai has a sister before now.

2) Haibara should know something about it as her sister and Akai were dating and I am sure Akai would have told Akemi about his family life which Haibara would have learned from her as Akemi would have told her sister everything about her dream man including his sister's name. Yet no response has yet occurred and by now Conan, or others have told her about her

Spoiler:

sera

[Stopwatch]

@ sstimon

Hey, you didn't comment my theory since it seems we have the same

and there is a reason for that. I found my first Kir is being miss lead post

One huge problem with Camel being a mole. If the BO knew for a fact that the FBI basically set up a plan for Rena to return, Then why would they not think that Rena is indeed a Mole herself and a plant. Camel must have known about the return plan if he went so far as to fake his death to the BO. If the BO knew he faked it , Then they would act right? They would likely kill Rena after she 'killed' Akia as then she would no longer be of any use.

There is a small possible of knowing she is a plant and feeding her false info. If that is so then it is likely thank the new BO does not really exist.

Later

I bolded it for you

Note I had this idea back in January 20 2009

According to your profile

Name: MaitreDétective
Posts: 280 (0.741 per day)
Position:
Date Registered: September 26, 2010, 12:47:15 PM

You appeared on the scene over 1 1/2 years after that post

need I say more? So it is more likely MY theory?

You can both come up with the same theory independently of each other, it doesn't mean that Maitre's theory isn't his, imo that makes no sense at all. Let's give an example , I've seen several people come up with similar ideas to Chekhov about how Akai faked his death, are they all invalid because Chekhov's was thought of first? (though while Chekhov's is probably the most detailed I've seen, I'm fairly sure she wouldn't have been the first to have that general idea). I doubt it, those people came up with it without any influence at all from her so while it is the 'same' theory, it would be both Chekhov's and the other person's (who I really can't remember the name of atm there was definitely a well thought out one a while ago )

2) Haibara should know something about it as her sister and Akai were dating and I am sure Akai would have told Akemi about his family life which Haibara would have learned from her as Akemi would have told her sister everything about her dream man including his sister's name. Yet no response has yet occurred and by now Conan, or others have told her about her

Spoiler:

sera

So, undercover agents regularly give away personal/private details? If that were the case Kir would have died years ago D:

[sstimson]

@Stopwatch: I know he ask and then I asked, how about this likely first, but a shared idea

Also Akai was undercover at the time that is true, but here is the question. Was Akemi really part of the BO like Chevhov suggest? I am of the opinion that her robbery was a one time thing only. She only did that to free her sister. She had a lot of freedom and seem to be allowed to come and go as she pleased. If Akai was really in love, then personal information would for sure come out. I think their dating would have been ok. It kinda of kind Korn and Chianti, just another romance between black O members. It might have been watched a little, but for the most part should have been ok with the BO. Akai knows that she had a sister and while undercover could have had Akemi introduce Haibara to him. It really a question of was his love real. If yes then certainly personal information would be exchanged. If no, then the information exchanged on one side would be fake. Akemi at the time was more related to a member, then a member. Again Akai should have gave such info, as not to if asked would either hurt the relationship, or revel himself as a spy.

[Kor]

@Stopwatch: I know he ask and then I asked, how about this likely first, but a shared idea

Also Akai was undercover at the time that is true, but here is the question. Was Akemi really part of the BO like Chevhov suggest? I am of the opinion that her robbery was a one time thing only. She only did that to free her sister. She had a lot of freedom and seem to be allowed to come and go as she pleased. If Akai was really in love, then personal information would for sure come out. I think their dating would have been ok. It kinda of kind Korn and Chianti, just another romance between black O members. It might have been watched a little, but for the most part should have been ok with the BO. Akai knows that she had a sister and while undercover could have had Akemi introduce Haibara to him. It really a question of was his love real. If yes then certainly personal information would be exchanged. If no, then the information exchanged on one side would be fake. Akemi at the time was more related to a member, then a member. Again Akai should have gave such info, as not to if asked would either hurt the relationship, or revel himself as a spy.

I might have missed something, but since when do Korn and Chianti have a romance?  :|

[sstimson]

It is implied ( A case of reading between the lines). The fact they seem to be always together or near. The way they talk to each other compared to the other members. The fact they both hate certain members. The little rivalry in that shooting contest in 425. Little things like that. If I remember right there is a place where one changes targets because the others ask them to or says they want that target.

By the way I want to set the record straight I Did think that Bourbon might not exist way back in January 20 2009. But by reading the thread starting from the beginning, I did find one person who stated it before me and I wish to give them credit. Here is their post

Would be interesting and maybe nice if we see Yusaku and Yukiko again, but I doubt that they would pop out of nowhere. If we think of the Halloween Party case, Yukiko was in Japan, sensed that something was wrong and eventually stayed or got later back to their house.

But I miss them too.

By the way, Bourbon indeed seems to be inactive as Jodie said. Then again, he is a detective, and a good investigator won't rampage around and do extreme suspicious things, right?

I thought that maybe Bourbon doesn't exist at all. That would be an interesting twist. But if he exists I think he is Akai. I don't see any other suspicious guy around. @@

 

[Stopwatch]

You mean you missed their OT3 with Calvados
RMed by sstimon D:

[Kleene Onigiri]

Akemi was in the BO, which was also stated by James.
Akemi was definitely under surveillance, which was hinted/pointed out during the case where Haibara got the tape from her mother through her sister. Since it was said that the BO checked what Akemi wanted there, but couldn't find the tape.

[sstimson]

Akemi was in the BO, which was also stated by James.
Akemi was definitely under surveillance, which was hinted/pointed out during the case where Haibara got the tape from her mother through her sister. Since it was said that the BO checked what Akemi wanted there, but couldn't find the tape.

First I want you to understand I understand I think what you are trying to say.

Here is my point

Was Akemi at the time of her dating Akai a Bo member , or just a family member of a BO agent? That she did without question do a one time BO thing there is no question. The question is was that her first and last time thing and I think it was. If that is the case then I feel she was not really a part of the BO , but she did want to get away from THEIR INFLUENCES, their keeping tabs on her. I believe Haibara even said once AKemi was allowed a normal life.

[Kleene Onigiri]

It's not known.
But I dunno why that's important
And it's off-topic here I think? Since it's not really bourbon related now? D:

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I am not resolutely opposed to the Bourbon doesn't exist plot, but I think it only would work theory wise in it's weakest name-only form. Basically, Bourbon may be a fake name to test Kir, but the person being described behind the name is real. I do think there is a Black Organization agent consistent with Bourbon's characteristics: Scar Akai. When I theorized about scar Akai, I worked forward from his actions, instead of assuming what Gin, Vodka, Kir said was correct because they could be misleading. My conclusions based on Scar Akai's actions alone were that there is rather good evidence for Scar Akai being a Black Org operative trying to find out if the real Akai is dead by looking for and testing Akai's potential contacts. Furthermore, he exhibits all the personality traits ascribed to Bourbon:
1) Looking into Akai's death despite the assassination arranged by the competent Gin, convincing death shown on camera, and Vermouth's post death analysis of the FBI's reactions. It's further shown he doesn't trust Kir because he looked into her cellphone data to pull Mouri's cellphone number (assuming that is where he got it).
2) Secretive indicated by failing to tell Gin about what he is doing to the point of nearly getting himself assassinated.
3) Detective.
4) Male
etc...
"Bourbon" to me means the agent with the characteristics of Bourbon, even if that is not his real codename in the end.

I don't agree with Sstimson's other claims, like a BO spy in the FBI and that the BO must think Kir is a spy based on her return (versus suspect with room for reasonable doubt.)

[sstimson]

Thanks for making an appearance Chekhov. I never suggested other wise. I have almost from date one said Bourbon is a code phase. This is another convenience for plot sake. Note I think Scar Akai is Akai as you know and you should know why. Scar Akai or Akai as I believe also has those traits right? Bourbon does not need to exist if Akai is playing himself, though why he came out in the open only he would know.

As For Scar trying to smoke Akai out, I have mentioned problems with that theory based on real world events, But as it seem for this thread I need to repeat myself, so be it.

Reason why It does not make sense for a person trying to smoke out another to play act as the first or Scar Akai trying to smoke out Akai by looking like Akai.

1) It is certain to revel your hand.

If some one is trying to be you, you being you know something is going on. If you have no reason for hiding, you try to prove the other person is an imposter. That is the only way this method might work. I would think the BO is smart not to use a method that has a less then 1% chance of working. Because in this case, it is not a normal person, It is case 2- where the person wants to be hidden.
    1a) A person in hiding who is hot headed might response. They are not thinking with their heads, they are thinking with their anger. Again as we have seen over and over again, Akai is not hot headed. He is very cool and there is no reason why this method could work in this case. Time for case 2a.
    1b) A person is in hiding and is not a hot head - In this case they use their brain and can see the trap. They know who they are and might get someone to watch and report their events of the imposter but by no means do they get directly involved. They only way they might come out of hiding is as bait to catch the imposter, and believe me they are a very safe bait. Meaning there is a very good chance if the imposter takes the bait, they will be caught. Do you think the BO is going to let an agent high in the BO get caught in such a obvious trap? More likely, such a person goes even deeper in to hiding making it ever harder to find them. That is the most likely result of trying something like this. The BO is neither dumb or stupid. A person even like the fictional Bourbon would never try to smoke one anyone like this as it had very little chance of working.

2) the chances of success are almost zero

I explained why this is so above. This method will likely drive the person you are searching for to do three things. One, they will know they are being looked for. Two, they will go even deeper into hiding making it even harder to find them. Three, they might setup a counter trap to catch the imposter and the main target does not need to be the bait. One looking like him, can be used instead.

3) A hidden person will have support.

Normally a person in hiding must have a way to get life essential like food, housing, water, clothes. As they are in hiding, it is best if someone get them and bring it to them. A good support WILL prevent the hiding person from doing anything stupid. Again the support team makes it much harder for this method to work.

4) A imposter could become a target

This method is almost certain to bring unwanted attention to the imposter. The Support staff will start investigating the imposter and try to predict where and when the imposter will appear. They will learn everything they can about the imposter and when the time is right they ( the support team) set their trap and the imposter is caught.

Above are four reason why in the real world, this method DOES NOT WORK!. Again why would the BO allow a method like this that will draw unwanted attention to them or their agent, maybe get another agent caught, and is very unlikely to work. Would they allow the fictional Bourbon to waste BO resources and time like that. I will agree with chekhov that there could be an agent like the fictional Bourbon and their code name is GIN. Another good point from Chekhov on her statement here by

looking for and testing Akai's potential contacts

Here is my point. There are two kinds of contacts, those that do not know Akai is alive in which case Fictional Bourbon is wasting his time trying to learn if Akai is alive from them, and those who know he is alive as in his support staff and trying to probe one of them is sure to raise major red flags fast and they will response "Why do you want to know". They may if they are like the CIA detain him then and there. Very dangerous to try in this way. Either you learn nothing new or to let your target know what is going on and get caught yourself.

[MaitreDétective]

- Bourbon doesn't exist, It's a trap

I knew someone was going to post something like that 

[Alex Ng]

i think bourbon is okiya.
I know that many people believe that the new akai, i mean the injured akai was borbon, but i don't agree it.
why would akai help jodie and conan if he is bourbon.
and okiya, as we can se, haibara can sense if anybody from B.O was there, and every time okiya was there, haibara was able to sense it, that mean, okiya is boubon.

[leokiko]

i think bourbon is okiya.
I know that many people believe that the new akai, i mean the injured akai was borbon, but i don't agree it.
why would akai help jodie and conan if he is bourbon.
and okiya, as we can se, haibara can sense if anybody from B.O was there, and every time okiya was there, haibara was able to sense it, that mean, okiya is boubon.

All of your questions were already answered by Chekhov actually. Okiya isn't Bourboun.

http://forum.dctp.ws/viewtopic.php?t=3518.0