Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
ranger wrote:
"Shiho-chan...there is something I need to tell you....YOU JUST GOT PUNK'd haha im not your real mom, hahah I made you listen to these 18 tapes for nothing hahaha! Yeah, the Black Organization told me to do this so you wouldn't get too pissy and not make the drug, oh well, by the time your 18 you should be done w/ it anyway, ciao!"
Haibara's eyes start to water *sniff sniff
id blow my brains out if this happened, dont read this gosho
, Knowing Haibara, she would take her anger out on Conan for giving her the tapes in the first place. Probably giving him an extra strength laxative and saying it's a new test version of the antidote.
The Faces of Evil
Trying to start a club about magical ponies!
ranger wrote:
"Shiho-chan...there is something I need to tell you....YOU JUST GOT PUNK'd haha im not your real mom, hahah I made you listen to these 18 tapes for nothing hahaha! Yeah, the Black Organization told me to do this so you wouldn't get too pissy and not make the drug, oh well, by the time your 18 you should be done w/ it anyway, ciao!"
Haibara's eyes start to water *sniff sniff
id blow my brains out if this happened, dont read this gosho
, Knowing Haibara, she would take her anger out on Conan for giving her the tapes in the first place. Probably giving him an extra strength laxative and saying it's a new test version of the antidote.
Funny but very unlikely. If the Bo was going to punk Haibara, there are much easier ways to do it. Not to mention not knowing where those tapes got hid. Also the Bo want Haibara dead and it seems that setting a special bomb where the tapes were would make more sense.
It is possible the mom might have said we are not the Bad people we seem to be. Her parents might be the less evil people in the origination.
I get that idea by her mom's birthday message to her. You can read the love she had for her daughter.
ranger wrote:
"Shiho-chan...there is something I need to tell you....YOU JUST GOT PUNK'd haha im not your real mom, hahah I made you listen to these 18 tapes for nothing hahaha! Yeah, the Black Organization told me to do this so you wouldn't get too pissy and not make the drug, oh well, by the time your 18 you should be done w/ it anyway, ciao!"
Haibara's eyes start to water *sniff sniff
id blow my brains out if this happened, dont read this gosho
, Knowing Haibara, she would take her anger out on Conan for giving her the tapes in the first place. Probably giving him an extra strength laxative and saying it's a new test version of the antidote.
Funny but very unlikely. If the Bo was going to punk Haibara, there are much easier ways to do it. Not to mention not knowing where those tapes got hid. Also the Bo want Haibara dead and it seems that setting a special bomb where the tapes were would make more sense.
It is possible the mom might have said we are not the Bad people we seem to be. Her parents might be the less evil people in the origination.
I get that idea by her mom's birthday message to her. You can read the love she had for her daughter.
lol we were just kidding : / I wuld stop watching if that happened
hmm, regarding your theory, I still think it's still some sort of big secret about the BO, not just saying "we aren't evil", but who knows?
she told her she was successful at making APTX4869 and drank it and turned immortal (that why she called Angel). she told haibara she start to suffer and depressed she can't die. she was mad so she gave drug to sharon telling her she can be immortal and she drank it, wanted her to suffer too. well life didnt turn out well for sharon cause she couldnt age and spend life normal with her husband, that why she started to hate the drug and hate Angel, that why she says she never blessed by Angel. haibara's mom disappear, pretend to be dead and now called hell angel and destroyed completed APTX4869. haibara's father (BO boss) doesnt know anything about this and still trying to develop the drug, sharon hates BO for it.
After another topic that has everyone asking "Where does Haibara get the money for her new clothes?"
I think the tape said "I think you are old enough to her this. I'm really confident you have become a responsible individual so I have left a secret account in your name for you to use in case something happened to me. It's located at XXXX under XXXX."
Seriously how else does she get all those new clothes?!
The Faces of Evil
Trying to start a club about magical ponies!
Why else would Vermouth let Haibara and Conan go to that house to retrieve the tapes? She wants them to know the truth about her relationship with Elena!
TheBlind wrote:
After another topic that has everyone asking "Where does Haibara get the money for her new clothes?"
I think the tape said "I think you are old enough to her this. I'm really confident you have become a responsible individual so I have left a secret account in your name for you to use in case something happened to me. It's located at XXXX under XXXX."
Seriously how else does she get all those new clothes?!
I'd have to guess Agasa either just takes care of her monetary woes, or he employed her as a sort of research assistant for his various projects.
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but what if she told Haibara how old she (she being Haibara) was. Isn't it quite possible that she was used as a test subject. Taking this idea further, it could be that Haibara is not her daughter, but her mother and early versions of the drug caused memory problems. Fun to think about, imo...
Nanatsu no Ko wrote:
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but what if she told Haibara how old she (she being Haibara) was. Isn't it quite possible that she was used as a test subject. Taking this idea further, it could be that Haibara is not her daughter, but her mother and early versions of the drug caused memory problems. Fun to think about, imo...
I'm not sure I got what you meant to say.
Did you mean like Elena and Haibara are the same person?
Or Elena's mother and Haibara are the same person?
Nanatsu no Ko wrote:
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but what if she told Haibara how old she (she being Haibara) was. Isn't it quite possible that she was used as a test subject. Taking this idea further, it could be that Haibara is not her daughter, but her mother and early versions of the drug caused memory problems. Fun to think about, imo...
I'm not sure I got what you meant to say.
Did you mean like Elena and Haibara are the same person?
Or Elena's mother and Haibara are the same person?
I think he means that Elena is the real Shiho while Shiho is Elena. So I guess Shiho(Elena) used her mother(Haibara) as a test subject which turned her into a child(?) who she turned into herself(Shiho)..and by some weird joke, she ended up taking the drug once more turning her into Haibara. Fun to think about ..but makes no sense.
The Faces of Evil
Trying to start a club about magical ponies!
Nanatsu no Ko wrote:
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but what if she told Haibara how old she (she being Haibara) was. Isn't it quite possible that she was used as a test subject. Taking this idea further, it could be that Haibara is not her daughter, but her mother and early versions of the drug caused memory problems. Fun to think about, imo...
I'm not sure I got what you meant to say.
Did you mean like Elena and Haibara are the same person?
Or Elena's mother and Haibara are the same person?
I think he means that Elena is the real Shiho while Shiho is Elena. So I guess Shiho(Elena) used her mother(Haibara) as a test subject which turned her into a child(?) who she turned into herself(Shiho)..and by some weird joke, she ended up taking the drug once more turning her into Haibara. Fun to think about ..but makes no sense.
It'd make more sense if Haibara and Elena were the same person. Elena knew that the drug will turn her back into a baby (or a very small child) and will cause her memory loss. So she left tapes for herself for when she'll get older in order to explain to her that they are the same person.
Though that twist was already used in Kamichuma Karin (dunno if I spelled the title correctly), it can be nice if Gosho did something like that to throw us of our chairs again like in episode 345.
Nanatsu no Ko wrote:
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but what if she told Haibara how old she (she being Haibara) was. Isn't it quite possible that she was used as a test subject. Taking this idea further, it could be that Haibara is not her daughter, but her mother and early versions of the drug caused memory problems. Fun to think about, imo...
I'm not sure I got what you meant to say.
Did you mean like Elena and Haibara are the same person?
Or Elena's mother and Haibara are the same person?
I think he means that Elena is the real Shiho while Shiho is Elena. So I guess Shiho(Elena) used her mother(Haibara) as a test subject which turned her into a child(?) who she turned into herself(Shiho)..and by some weird joke, she ended up taking the drug once more turning her into Haibara. Fun to think about ..but makes no sense.
It'd make more sense if Haibara and Elena were the same person. Elena knew that the drug will turn her back into a baby (or a very small child) and will cause her memory loss. So she left tapes for herself for when she'll get older in order to explain to her that they are the same person.
Though that twist was already used in Kamichuma Karin (dunno if I spelled the title correctly), it can be nice if Gosho did something like that to throw us of our chairs again like in episode 345.
The problem with them being the same person is Haibara's sister. I'm not really sure how that would work..
We have no proof of who Haibara's mother is or her birth other than what she believes her age to be. My theory makes it so that Haibara is Elena's mother. Elena is Akemi's mother. So that Haibara is Akemi's grandmother. Haibara being a scientist (and working with her daughter Elena) uses an early version of the drug on herself (insert reasoning such as immortality or vanity). However she becomes younger than expected and loses her memory. Elena continues work on the drug (so as to return Haibara to herself) but in the meantime raises her as her child along with Akemi. And currently in the story Haibara is experiencing childhood number three. 8)
Nanatsu no Ko wrote:
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but what if she told Haibara how old she (she being Haibara) was. Isn't it quite possible that she was used as a test subject. Taking this idea further, it could be that Haibara is not her daughter, but her mother and early versions of the drug caused memory problems. Fun to think about, imo...
I'm not sure I got what you meant to say.
Did you mean like Elena and Haibara are the same person?
Or Elena's mother and Haibara are the same person?
I think he means that Elena is the real Shiho while Shiho is Elena. So I guess Shiho(Elena) used her mother(Haibara) as a test subject which turned her into a child(?) who she turned into herself(Shiho)..and by some weird joke, she ended up taking the drug once more turning her into Haibara. Fun to think about ..but makes no sense.
It'd make more sense if Haibara and Elena were the same person. Elena knew that the drug will turn her back into a baby (or a very small child) and will cause her memory loss. So she left tapes for herself for when she'll get older in order to explain to her that they are the same person.
Though that twist was already used in Kamichuma Karin (dunno if I spelled the title correctly), it can be nice if Gosho did something like that to throw us of our chairs again like in episode 345.
The problem with them being the same person is Haibara's sister. I'm not really sure how that would work..
We have no proof of who Haibara's mother is or her birth other than what she believes her age to be. My theory makes it so that Haibara is Elena's mother. Elena is Akemi's mother. So that Haibara is Akemi's grandmother. Haibara being a scientist (and working with her daughter Elena) uses an early version of the drug on herself (insert reasoning such as immortality or vanity). However she becomes younger than expected and loses her memory. Elena continues work on the drug (so as to return Haibara to herself) but in the meantime raises her as her child along with Akemi. And currently in the story Haibara is experiencing childhood number three. 8)
Haibara said that her parents died when she was very young, so it didn't have a long time for "elena raises her mother as her daughter"
though I don't try to argue on any theory here since the probability of something such as any of this happening is rather low unless gosho inetends to make this even more fantasier (is that even a word?) than what it is now.
But with your theory, it's ironic that Haibara said that she is 84 old (was that what she said?) as that might be correct with your theory?
Pisco mentioned to Ai in the Hyde city hotel that he was a friend on the parents and knew of their drug developing exploits. It is implied that Pisco figured out that Ai was Shiho because he knew what she looked like when she was young. While not conclusive, the exchange suggests that Pisco had at some point met the parents who had young Shiho with them. That would imply that Elena and Ai couldn't be the same person because they were both present at the same time; however, the circumstances behind Pisco's meeting Ai and the fact that Shinichi has tricked Ran in the same way doesn't rule out the possibility that Shiho is really Elena.
Spoiler:
Also, I was under the impression that Shiho still remembers Elena which would definitely mean they are not the same person. Shiho knew the voice on the tapes was her mother's based on the sound. On the tapes, the mother addressed her as Shiho and knew her age. If Elena was Shiho that would imply that Elena either knew that she would revert to an young age and forget everything or there was another Shiho the tapes were intended for. If Elena was Shiho, the only way Shiho would know her mother's voice would be if Elena had recorded a tape of herself before turning into Shiho.
Also Agasa notes that Elena wasn't Japanese and was surprised that she is Ai's mother in chap 398. Ai doesn't look like a foreigner according to the other characters. If Shiho was Elena she would have needed serious plastic surgery which would be improbable unless it was Elena who was disguised the whole time.
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
Pisco mentioned to Ai in the Hyde city hotel that he was a friend on the parents and knew of their drug developing exploits. It is implied that Pisco figured out that Ai was Shiho because he knew what she looked like when she was young. While not conclusive, the exchange suggests that Pisco had at some point met the parents who had young Shiho with them. That would imply that Elena and Ai couldn't be the same person because they were both present at the same time; however, the circumstances behind Pisco's meeting Ai and the fact that Shinichi has tricked Ran in the same way doesn't rule out the possibility that Shiho is really Elena.
Spoiler:
Also, I was under the impression that Shiho still remembers Elena which would definitely mean they are not the same person. Shiho knew the voice on the tapes was her mother's based on the sound. On the tapes, the mother addressed her as Shiho and knew her age. If Elena was Shiho that would imply that Elena either knew that she would revert to an young age and forget everything or there was another Shiho the tapes were intended for. If Elena was Shiho, the only way Shiho would know her mother's voice would be if Elena had recorded a tape of herself before turning into Shiho.
Also Agasa notes that Elena wasn't Japanese and was surprised that she is Ai's mother in chap 398. Ai doesn't look like a foreigner according to the other characters. If Shiho was Elena she would have needed serious plastic surgery which would be improbable unless it was Elena who was disguised the whole time.
Spoiler:
I had forgotten about these. Thanks. With Agasa's insight that destroys my theory.
