Kogorous Riddle Thread and eworms Deduction Thread

[A.E.]

Spoiler: Am I over simplifying it

If it comes out of the earth, it's probably a vegetable; if it's sold in the market, idem; the tail here is probably the root; the silk refers to the act of peeling the outer layer of that particular vegetable; now the tears were the dead giveaway; it is an onion

[Kogorou]

Right
It's your turn.

[eworm]

  Wait, so what is the answer to sstimson's riddle?

[sstimson]

I took and still don't see any mistake... Maybe I'm just overlooking it, if you could pinpoint where exactly do you see something wrong... Anyway, I've already switched to another solution of mine, as seen in the previous post.
How about changing it like this:

VIAL A:
1. Vial B is lying.
2. The antidote is in the A vial.
VIAL B:
1. The Brain-Frying Riddle #4 is coming soon.
2. The antidote is in the A vial.

As you can see I've changed only one statement and now the riddle is 100% solvable - if vial A is lying (A2), the antidote is the B vial. If vial B is lying, A is too (A2). So it's B again. If both are lying - then A1 is true but A2 is a lie (again) - therefore it's the B vial. You see? B B B. It's vial B without a doubt. Of course it's based on an assumption a vial can be labelled as "liar" even if one of its statements is still correct (A1) but the other (A2) isn't.

So what if it's irrelevant? I changed a statement, right? That's what we were supposed to do.

Do I really need to give you guys the answer?

anyway Eworm nice try Watch!
First we make this statement truth

The Brain-Frying Riddle #4 is coming soon.

next
1)B=Lie    A=Cure
2)B=True A=Cure

B being the cure if
statement is both truth and lie ( {1}B=Lie (truth) and A=Cure(lie) ) and ({2} B=true(Truth) A=Cure(lie) )
A being the cure if
statement is like the following ({1} B=Lie(lie) and A=Cure(truth) ) and ({2} B=true(truth) A=Cure(truth) )

So your case does not do it

Next

[eworm]

Woah, sstimson, you make it sound really complicated. First tell us if "A is lying" means "both of the A statements are lies" or "at least one of the A statements is a lie". It's important!

[A.E.]

Woah, sstimson, you make it sound really complicated. First tell us if "A is lying" mean "both of the A statements are lies" or "at least one of the A statements is a lie". It's important!

Did you just ask for a solution?

[Akonyl]

Woah, sstimson, you make it sound really complicated. First tell us if "A is lying" mean "both of the A statements are lies" or "at least one of the A statements is a lie". It's important!

Did you just ask for a solution?

pretty sure he's just asking for a clarification on what a statement means :V

(and if you're gonna say that the ambiguity of the wording is part of the problem, I'm not sure where ambiguous wording fits in what's otherwise supposed to be a logic problem.)

[A.E.]

Woah, sstimson, you make it sound really complicated. First tell us if "A is lying" mean "both of the A statements are lies" or "at least one of the A statements is a lie". It's important!

Did you just ask for a solution?

pretty sure he's just asking for a clarification on what a statement means :V

(and if you're gonna say that the ambiguity of the wording is part of the problem, I'm not sure where ambiguous wording fits in what's otherwise supposed to be a logic problem.)

You could simply use that as a tool to solve it, or not!
I have already attempted last week what eworm is trying to get at, now; and according the riddler himself, it is a [abbr=I have to say it bluntly, now that you forced me to]no-go[/abbr].

Ah...... I get it.

if that's the case

Spoiler:

this is the case where one clause has been changed to resault in a solvable puzzle
[glow=red,2,300]Vial "A"[/glow]
[glow=blue,2,300]Vial "B"[/glow]
[glow=red,2,300]Vial A is lying;
vial A has the
antidote[/glow]
[glow=blue,2,300]Vial A is lying;
vial A has the
antidote[/glow]
On vial "A", it says that that the vial itself is lying about the fact that it has an antidote; so vial "A" is lying about lying—>telling the truth about the antidote.
Vial "B" is confirming such a fact that "A" is lying, ergo "A" has the antidote.
So I should drink Vial "A" to survive

Is it just me being a newbie, or is this gesture, ":V", the epitome of ambiguity

[eworm]

  It's just as Akonyl said - I didn't ask for the solution, I want to know if only one of the statements on the vial being false qualifies the vial as "lying" or not...
  Also, I find sstimson's way of putting the things into numbers and "A = Cure" and all that other stuff really confusing! I mean I don't get his analysis of my own answer!

[sstimson]

Translation of my shorthand

The antidote is in the A vial

becomes A = Cure

The antidote is in the B vial

becomes B = Cure

If A is telling nothing but the Truth

becomes A=Truth

If even ONE statement of A is a lie

becomes A=Lie

That should answer both questions

If A is telling the truth is all statements
then A=True or A=Truth

Does that answer all your questions?

[eworm]

Basic Statements:
A1 - Vial B is lying.
A2 - The antidote is in the A vial.
B1 - Vial A is lying.
B2 - The antidote is in the A vial.

There are 4 possibilities in total:
a) Both vials tell the truth. Impossible because vial A telling the truth makes vial B a liar and vice versa.
b) Both vials lie. Both vials are telling the truth (about the other lying) and are lying (about the antidote being in the A vial). That would mean the antidote is in the B vial.
c) Only vial A lies.
d) Only vial B lies.

So we have to create a situation where every option gives the same antidote-answer as the others or is contradictory and therefore impossible, right?

[sstimson]

Remember as is this is unsolvable.
I will give a major hint one of these phases needs to change

The antidote is in the A vial.

What you change that phase to and your statement above will solve my riddle

Another Major hints - Try to get one player to be Truth - All their statements are true

Also it looks like it might be necessary to change more then one statement. If you must, go head. If you can do it with only one, even bettert.

[Kogorou]

that is the riddle put it another way these are your clauses

A=Lying
B=Lying
A=Cure
A=Cure

by changing one of above clauses should make this riddle solvable by logic

Oh come on let's get that stuff over with.
The answer to the original Riddle was given and it was correct because the it was the only logical answer because that wasn't be able to be solved by logic.
And if you start argumenting I'M out because I don't want to discuss this silly stuff.
Let's get to the next Riddle.

[A.E.]

that is the riddle put it another way these are your clauses

A=Lying
B=Lying
A=Cure
A=Cure

by changing one of above clauses should make this riddle solvable by logic

Oh come on let's get that stuff over with.
The answer to the original Riddle was given and it was correct because the it was the only logical answer because that wasn't be able to be solved by logic.
And if you start argumenting I'M out because I don't want to discuss this silly stuff.
Let's get to the next Riddle.

Well if that's the case, my riddle was originally solved by sstimson.
so it's sstimson's turn to come up with a riddle.

[Kogorou]

Whatever just let this get over with I get Headache from that much sillyness over solving something with logic that you can't express in a logic way.