Kogorous Riddle Thread and eworms Deduction Thread

The home to DCTP Forum Mafia as well as any other type of random forum game that you can conjure up.
Post Reply
User avatar
eworm
*Brain-Frying Master*

Posts:
191
Contact:

Re: Kogorous Riddle Thread and eworms Deduction Thread

Post by eworm »

  Nah, in this context "the key" means something totally different - "the most important factor to solving the case".

  Also I have my doubts about the letter. Why did the professor write something like this if he a) wasn't going to imitate suicide (or death in any other way), and b) had no clue he'd die by the end of the party (even the culprit didn't!)? It's weird! Also, why hire a detective for a few months? The professor's actions were odd if not downright ridiculous. My deduction #2 explains those while the true answer - doesn't.

BTW, sstimson, how come you're always online? Always!
meitantei tenshi

Posts:
0

Re: Kogorous Riddle Thread and eworms Deduction Thread

Post by meitantei tenshi »

Not wanting to make the same mistake again - how much of this can we talk about without spoiler tags?

Given this series of events I'm surprised the professor thought he might die enough to write the letter as he did. What was Borner's role over the last few months? As a friend rather than a PI I could see that working.

There isn't enough information on the contents of the blue cloth to work it out by logic, but the motivation of the killer:
Spoiler:
Suspected infidelity
was well signposted and I'm annoyed that solving the overarching cause meant I didn't consider that side:
Spoiler:
Once I got it was accidental, the fact that the harm to the dog could be deliberate completely passed me by!
I'm assuming the chemistry part was
Spoiler:
that the explosive on the dog was based on a metal from group one of the periodic table, probably potassium which combusts on contact with water
Overall, an excellent mystery I thought, even if not all of it was the most logical conclusion based on the evidence. I still have a couple of issues: the implication that the glass was the cause of death, how wood was splintered without a big explosion and why the body was hanging upside down given the reason it was in the air.

Genius on the motive though!
User avatar
eworm
*Brain-Frying Master*

Posts:
191
Contact:

Re: Kogorous Riddle Thread and eworms Deduction Thread

Post by eworm »

  Yeah, I'm not going to wait till Kogorou appears, sorry.
  Here it is, my deduction number 2 (number 1 wasn't really a deduction, just a bunch of ideas not leading anywhere). It's long but brilliant. Got almost everything right.
sstimson
Everyone a Critic

Posts:
2588
Contact:

Re: Kogorous Riddle Thread and eworms Deduction Thread

Post by sstimson »

I had the right idea but wrong ...

I knew it was not murder
I Knew the Dog Jumping Killed the Professor
I miss placed where the Professor was ( Even now I think some else then the (quote) Answer (Unquote)
I also like the circus idea better

Circus Idea:

Dorny want to show his wife's explosives are safe not dangerous. There are Directional meaning they exploded away from the Dog. He wants to get his wife reinstated.

He plan is to blow a hole in the glass and with everyone watching have the dog jump through the hole. Explosives are the Collar will protect the Dog from any major damage though a small amount of burning will happen. While this is happening, he will do his circus trick: Entering the building from a high window. Also every thing is above board and all needed peple now what is too happen. Dias has given her blessing to having her Dog used for this, knowing the pain will be minor. Brawny Also knows and will play Dorny when he goes outside. Maria will put the explosives on the collar to both protect the dog and to show her invention is safe.

So the events are put in motion. Dorny using he want to check on the Dogs goes outside and Brawny takes his place. Dorny starts his window climb and reaches the place where he can watch the Dog enter. He signals for the lights. The lights go off. Brawny becomes him self and leaves the room. Dias because of her love for her Dog will not let anyone else explosion the small cherry bomb that will get her dog to jump. Maria set off remotely the Window breaking explosion but unknown to her something horrible has happened. By the way the directional explosive is set to send the Glass shards up into the ceiling.
Dias set off her cherry bomb and the Dog jumps through the window. small explosives around the Dog Collar protect the Dog from the Glass as they come in contact with the glass. Again the explosives are set to send the glass away from the dog. The Dog is burned from both the cherry bomb ( a few embers hit her ) and by the explosives on the collar ( the more major burn ).
Now the Horrible part. Dorny heart cannot take the excitement and he has a heart attack. That kills him. But where it happens is while he is hanging from the ceiling and unfortunaly he is right where the glass is going to go. So no only does he have an heart attack, but get gets hit by the glass shards from the explosion both of them ( the Dog collar and the main hole making one ) that would explain why glass entered both sides of his body.

Problems with the (quote) real answer(unquote)
1)Time. He would have needed more time to get in to the climbing belt then I think he had.
2) Belt. The belt and setup would have been seen entering the room. That would have given the game away
3) Dog. As much as Dias loves her Dog, I see no way for Maria to hurt it. Remember they can see outside through the window
Again not enough time.
4) While some of you see the Jealous game. I really do not. That might be because I like to think the best about people until they prove otherwise. Let me ask how was this shown.
Later

Invisible Member
Spoiler: SS Present from PT
Image
User avatar
Kogorou
*drinking beer and playing guitar*

Posts:
1132
Contact:

Re: Kogorous Riddle Thread and eworms Deduction Thread

Post by Kogorou »

I was very busy yesterday and I will post the solutions now :P

Eworms Deductions:
Deduction 1
Deduction 2

Meitantei Tenshi:
Deduction 1:
Spoiler:
Kogoro’s Deduction Competition

Nice job - I had to sign up to the forums because I wanted to send you my answer!

The professor was intending to make a grand show at the dinner party using his latest creation: a rocket (or some similar rocket-powered device). The fuel was new, and a product of his and his wife’s work in chemistry, and based on gunpowder. The inherent danger in such a scheme could explain both her firing from the university and his retirement (as well as the bad blood between the professor and the dean, as evidenced by Bunkleman’s outburst).

This stunt is in keeping with his established antics, and the danger inherent in such a task explains the letter held by Borner. Borner’s familiarity with the stunt might explain his instinct not to smoke, given that gunpowder was to form a crucial part of the evening’s entertainment. In this case, the blue cloths would contain binoculars or telescopes to watch the rocket’s progress.

The fuse was rudimentary – a sparking fuse that was lit at some distance from the rocket by Maria, but Ms. Dies’ dog chased the spark and tried to catch it, resulting in the burns to her paws. In his panic to protect the dog, Maria knocked over the rocket when the spark travelling along the fuse reached the rocket and so it flew off course through the window, hitting the professor as it crashed through the window, impaling the professor with glass fragments and carrying him up to be caught on a fixture hanging from the ceiling. The dog follows through the broken window  in a panic to find its owner.

Maria runs into the room from assisting her husband in his stunt in the garden, explaining her late appearance.

I am not convinced this explanation will correspond with the explanation you have, but I believe it does align with much of the evidence you presented. I’m intrigued to see how much of this deduction is accurate. (the only thing this doesn’t explain is why he expects he might die – I started to think of a more fanciful explanation such as a jetpack entrance gone wrong to match that, but it seems a little unrealistic!) Besides - my explanation doesn't cover the gear noise either, so it's not entirely complete...

P.S. If you don’t mind me saying – as a writer myself I found this story pretty hard to follow, it didn’t flow easily when reading. I’m happy to help with stylistic stuff if you like (or you can tell me to go away!) Also, as a side note: if Borner is already privy to the details of the professor’s experiment, he requires fewer deductive leaps to explain the untimely death. If he didn’t know anything in advance, he would be more impressive when he revealed the truth!

Summary: The professor was accidentally killed by his wife as the result of a rocket misfiring as she tried to prevent the death of Ms. Dies’ dog.
I gave out some comments that contained spoilers so I had to count one try for it.

Deduction 2:
Spoiler:
Deduction Competition: Final Attempt


The victim
The professor is fond of big stunts. This is established by his previous behaviour (skateboards, climbing through windows). As the trick that resulted in his death used both mechanical (the gear sound) and chemical (smell of gunpowder etc.) means that required a lot of set up, they are probably part of a stunt that he himself set up. He knew he was in danger, and that it was the result of his own work. The certainty of the timing of his demise in his letter to Williams means that this knowledge is more than some suspicions regarding his family or colleagues. If he is to die that night he knows when and how.

That it resulted in his death means that this trick goes wrong (by design or by accident). The questions remaining therefore are: "How was the trick supposed to go?" and "Who caused it to go wrong?"

The "killer"

The second question proves easier to answer. This culprit (whether intentionally or otherwise) is Maria, the victim's wife. She is absent for much of the dinner, behaves strangely when she reappears, and smells of gunpowder. Given the force involved, that harm caused to the dog and the shattering glass and splintering wood explosives likely played a part in the professor's death. This is confirmed by his reference to the warning he gives his grandchildren, which is probably a reference to fireworks, being an explosive used once a year which children could have access to.

The wife could have sabotaged the stunt deliberately or accidentally. If deliberate, her motive could have been protective rather than destructive, in fact the professor's death could have been accidental rather than deliberate. This could be confirmed by her response to her husband's death, but an emotional reaction can be faked. In fact it is Borner who confirms that it is an accident. He has made it clear that he knows what has happened, and he treats Maria with kindness and uses the term "misunderstanding" meaning that the professor's death was not the result of calculated murder.

Motive

That leads us to why she would interfere. There are two possible explanations here, and for both, the content of the professor's letter is the key. He says that preparation for this trick (he calls it his work) has meant he has been secretive and aloof from his family for the last few months. Borner knows the nature of the work but he has kept it secret from everyone else and heated arguments have resulted.

If his wife discovered the nature of the trick, or that a dangerous trick was going to take place then she would act to prevent it. If she didn't know but her relationship with her husband was becoming soured by his secret keeping, she would try to find out what he was up to. Even if she only discovered what he was up to at the last minute, she would surely try to stop it if she cared about him. Her tears at his death prove that this is the case.

Means

This is the part of the trick I continue to struggle to accurately explain. I have established what the trick was supposed to achieve: the Professor's apparent miraculous disappearance. The trick was planned and instigated by the professor himself, and used both mechanical and chemical means to achieve it.

The trick seems to be that whilst the lights are briefly down, the professor will be removed using the machine that makes the gear sound and an explosive will provide misdirection - similar to a Kaitou Kid disappearance. The professor could either vanish down, though the floor or under the table, or up towards the ceiling. Given that up is where his body is found, this seems the likely explanation.

Somewhere there is machinery set up to lift him from his seat. He could trigger the whole trick in two ways: on a timer or manually from his seat. First question then: did he only check on the dogs when he got up from his seat? That is the perfect opportunity for him to make last minute preparations and set a timer if that is his intention. If his wife spotted and followed him to where this set up was taking place then she would be in the right place at the right time to cause the accident. If not then the only way whilst outside the room that she could have affected the outcome of the trick if all the triggers were in the room was by letting the dog in. This could explain how the dog got inside, but wouldn't constitute deliberate interference as you have implied in your responses to my first solutions.

The dog had to get inside the house at some stage, again by accident or design, and when the professor left the room seems the most appropriate time for that to happen. The dog must have been in proximity to the explosion, and short of the trick actually being the professor apparently turning into a dog, that wouldn't be by design. Besides, as the dog belongs to Ms Dies it is unlikely he would turn himself into the dog of one of his guests. That means that the dog's proximity was not part of the trick.

I still cannot explain the source of the glass. Large shards wouldn't come from anything on the table, the windows would have blown outwards from any explosion inside the house, and no mention of silvering on the glass was made, which rules out the use of a mirror in the trick. Any liquid explosive housed in glass would be extremely unsafe for his guests as well as himself, and there would not be sufficient quantity of glass to produce the described shards.

Conclusions

So I must declare that I cannot fully answer the riddle. I know who did it, and why. I know approximately how, but the details of the chemistry elude me. I have reconstructed most of the scene and I can even account for the presence of the dog but as to the precise workings of the trick and the contents of those blue cloths, I am defeated!

I look forward to your solution on Sunday so I can kick myself or complain that you didn't give me enough information... Smiley

Thanks for the challenge!

PS - even if my answer to your maid riddle was wrong I still think it is logical ;P
sstimson:

Deduction 1
Spoiler:
Since you ask so nicely and Eworm suggested it First the Dog Deductions



Everyone a Critic

595187
View Profile Email Personal Message (Online)
 
 
Re: Kogorous Riddle Thread and eworms Deduction Thread
« Reply #620 on: Today at 05:15:20 AM »
  Reply with quoteQuote Modify messageModify Remove messageRemove

Sstimson's Dog Deductions
(will try hard not to give the last answer away)

Afterward we were all driven to the final resort of the evening.

The cars were ready outside the building and six people fit into one. Three dark blue limousines with blue flags rolled down the street up into the forest.

Ok there were 10 guest. - Only ten guests, including me,  were invited:

3 X 6 = 18. Guesting the Driver were not party guest, (they could have driven themselves), that knocks down the number of possible seats to 15, so if the Cars were full ( and again it possible there were not ) then we have 5 seats meaning 5 large dogs might have come. But no size is mentioned so they could be tiny, small, large, or normal size. For this say that one large dog is about 2 normal ones, 3 small ones and four tiny ones. That means between five to 20 Dogs might have come by car.

Some people also brought along their dogs.

This is interesting because it is suggested they were picked up at the event

After my speech Dorny came up and handed over an envelope.
"This, young fellow, is the final act", he said in a calm voice. I knew about this interest he had
in special appearances. He's done many crazy things – like climbing through the windows into the
third-floor classroom or using a skateboard to ride all over campus just to show that he is still fit.
And he sure is. I've never seen a man more trained and healthy than him.
Some people came and shook his hands. Afterward we were all driven to the final resort of
the evening.

That means they also brought their dogs to the event and that suggest the event had something to do with Dogs.

Some people also brought along their dogs. Of course they had to be placed outside where they were served water and food. From the room's big windows we could see the animals running around and doing fine.

Note the plural Dogs. Also Note the word They and Animals. This shows there was more then one.

Everybody who had brought their dogs became worried because they thought the pets will be harmed. Dorny promised them he'd take a look because it was his responsibility, as he put it. He left the room. A bit later he came back and said that everything is okay and the pets are unharmed.

If Dorny left the room but not the house.

And the last non-family member was James Borner. He came in last, after all the family, and made sure that nobody left the house.


Then he must have gone where the Window was where one could see the Dogs without going outside.

From the room's big windows we could see the animals running around and doing fine.

A big, gold-haired dog wounded with glass pieces was crawling on the floor. The dog had black feet and brown spots all over him.

We know this was one of the Dogs there. and as I said earlier we know in theory between five and 20 dogs could have come in the cars.

But Notice how big the yard is. There is plenty of room for other Dogs. And again Dorny work could have involved Dogs meaning there could have been a few Dogs living at the murder scene. So the Total number of dogs could increase. Since the yard was at least big enough to handle a possible 20 Dogs, lets say this Yard was home to say Ten Dogs meaning the number of Dogs is now between 15 to 35 Dogs at the scene.

The dogs were running wild and helpless searching for cover from the rain.

Again this suggest there were several Dogs. But at least one of these Dogs was inside either let inside, or came inside. And It is possible that since these dogs were wild, there might have been more then one dog inside.

Any other Dog Deductions might give away the answer to the last question, though I will say this: at least three people seem to like Dogs.

How that Great Kogorous?


thoughts

Between 5  and 20 dogs could be there with any being there and it would be
between 15 and 35 if there were dogs living there.

The Dogs were at the event that they were picked up at. Maybe Dog Training?

The Dogs were watched by a large window.

At least three People seem to be dog lovers

One of the Dogs had a golden coat. Maybe a Golden retriever?

At least one dog was hurt and inside after the murder.

The Dog was female.

===========================================================================

Next the Real thing. And as some of these are still open, I know it is two to go

===========================================================================

Attempt Number 1


First your questions

Who Killed the Professor how and why did the Culprit to it?
Are you able to reconstruct the whole scenery?
And what was in the blue piece of cloth the guests got at the beginning of the party?
What is the Misunderstanding Borner talked about and what did he pick up from the dog?
And the easiest one... whose dog is it?


Next my thoughts  and reasons

1) Who Killed the Professor how and why did the Culprit to it?
2) Are you able to reconstruct the whole scenery?

Clues

"She's burned..."
Several pieces of glass were stuck in the professor's torso and back
sound of glass and wood being shattered
Lighting struck a nearby tree splitting it in half
"I... I just heard a strange noise from outside and shortly afterward the shattering of glass. I  thought a tree stroke the windows or something

Thoughts.

This was a act of God I believe it is called. A part of a tree was struck by lightning, broke and went through a window stabbing the Prof on a tree. Note there was glass in the Body which should have come from a window. also the dog has wound from glass. I believe the Dog entered the house after the window broke and this way got their wounds. This might also take care of the scene view

3) And what was in the blue piece of cloth the guests got at the beginning of the party?

Again this goes with my theory in the Dog section. It might be a Dog whistle.

4)What is the Misunderstanding Borner talked about and what did he pick up from the dog?

As I believe no one murdered the Prof, that would be the misunderstanding - that someone might have murdered him.

Part 2  three possible things ( this part will be wrong)

a- a sliver of wood rom the broken tree
b- a glass shard from the broken window
c- a dog training device to go with what might be a dog whistle


5) And the easiest one... whose dog is it?

two possibles First it is the prof. Dog  and it entered the house to check on its master ( I think this is wrong)

Major Clue

Mrs. Caerom Dies came from the corner where the wounded dog lied down covered in tears. I
ened to know her a bit and kept her company.
"Are you alright?", I tried to calm her down, petting her shoulder to let her know that she
t alone in this confusion.
"She's burned...", losing herself in tears, she unstably walked towards the her boss's red body.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
She is doing the following. checking her Pet and trying to help it. She is where the dog is not part of the others who normally would be looking at the dead body. Her actions show she is the Pets Owner
Mrs. Caerom Dies
Deduction 2:
Spoiler:
Ok remember you asked for this a few qustions answered would have likely made no difference

Ok Deduction #2

First The answer to the 8 questions I asked plus one more.

That one more is this

Can a Dog Training Collar burn a Dog?

Well after some more research, I found the anwser to be No, as setup, While a normal training collar can not start a fire, one set up to spark can. This is done by pulling part of the wire inside the training collar and exposing it. You then cut it and pull it apart just enough that a spark can jump between the two ends of the wire. But After some more research I found this

.http://www.myresearch.lt/production/Fir ... rter.phtml


http://www.myresearch.lt/production/Fir ... Manual.gif

This is exactly what I was looking for. A remote control fire starter! Something like this coud be made into a Dog Collar and the thing would create a burn by the touch of a button. Anyway back to my questions

1) How did the dog get burned?

From this passage, it is clear the Dog was burned.

Mrs. Caerom Dies came from the corner where the wounded dog lied down covered in tears. I
happened to know her a bit and kept her company.
"Are you alright?", I tried to calm her down, petting her shoulder to let her know that she
wasn't alone in this confusion.
"She's burned...

Mrs Caerom Dies is refering to the Dog. Her Dog ( Mrs Caerom Dies's) was burned. How do this happen. As I mentioned above, I believe it was done by a remote control fire starter put in the Dog's collar. Why was it done, To get the Dog to jump in a certain direction. In this case I believe the Dog was to jump through a window. But doing that is dangerous to the Dog. If the Windows breaks with large, jagged shards that could kill the Dog going through the Window. So something must be between the Window and the Dog, This would allow the dog to avoids most of the damage of her trip through the Window and she  would comes out with less that life threating injuries.


2) Did Dorny really come back from checking on the dogs?

The weather changed rapidly; the soft breeze turned into a storm and it started raining.
Everybody who had brought their dogs became worried because they thought the pets will be
harmed. Dorny promised them he'd take a look because it was his responsibility, as he put it. He left the room.
I know the passage nexts says...

A bit later he came back and said that everything is okay and the pets are unharmed

But as I will now show, that is not possible. Someone must have taken his place to do that because he is waiting for the right moment to die by the Dog pushing him first through the window.
More on who later.

3) How did glass end up in both the back and front of the body?

The corpse I had to examine now. Several pieces of glass were stuck in the professor's torso
and back – enough to kill anyone.

I can see Glass maybe going through. But this passage suggest that part of the glass that broke was in the front and some was in the back. Assuming for the moment he was facing the Dog and his back hit the Window, then that would explain how glass got stuck in his back, But the Dog was blocking his front and any glass that could have falled or hit his front would have struck the Dog, not him. This can only mean that some of the glass was placed there by somebody.

4) Why did Borner's so control everyone?


Nobody moves, stay where you are. You!", some voice called out to me. "You. Doctor Williams, I presume, open it!

For gods sake, come with me. Everybody else is prohibited from leaving, not even to the toilets. There are enough bottles

Who are you? As far as I saw, all the guests are already here!

Nobody touches the corpse....!!

Right now we only need to wait and read

You could say that he is acting right for the situation or he is just that way, and normally you would be right, But I believe he is acting this way for a different reason. Lets look at a few facts

First Note this: Part of Dorny last Letter

My dear student, my dear friend.
If you already met Mr. Borner, you will know for sure that I am no longer alive. I hope it was not too painful. The latest circumstances at the university and my decisions lead to this. The latest project of mine, which I am not allowed to talk about, is the key. Nobody knows about it. Maybe you can handle this together with Borner. I trust him. He stayed with me the last few months and knows everything he needs to know... The only thing he doesn't – is my family. I admit that I didn't pay them much attention due to my work and even some outrageous suspicions were outspoken.

Note These WORDS - KNOWS EVERYTHING HE NEEDS TO KNOW

That phase is why I think that Borner knew what was going to happen. Lets look at another example.

Listen, what happened in there was something I had seen coming", his voice was calm. Too
calm for this situation. "Your friend....

Note two things. One is he is too calm, and also "SOMETHING I HAD SEEN COMING"

He to me is the stage director makes sure the events of the night go the way they need to.
He is the one who . . .

And the last non-family member was James Borner. He came in last, after all the family, and
made sure that nobody left the house.

And as I have showned someone must have left the house. He would know if any did leave, and he seems to know exactly when and where to give his commands so the scene came happen the way it need to. Again more on this Later.

5) Kind of Glass that broke.

This required more research. There are three basic kinds for glass used in windows. They are

ordinary glass window (technically called "annealed glass") - http://www.ehow.com/how_6809769_do-shat ... s-it_.html - the Glass you used in your story

Laminated glass - When broken, the PVB interlayer keeps the layers of glass bonded and prevents it from breaking apart - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architectu ... ated_glass

Toughened glass (tempered glass) - will usually shatter in small, square pieces when broken. -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architectu ... d_glass.29

So you see I know about the last two. One is almost impossible to break and the other breaks into small not large pieces. But the first one - annealed glass - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architectu ... aled_glass -

Annealed glass breaks into large, jagged shards that can cause serious injury, and thus, the reason it is considered a hazard in architectural applications. Building codes in many parts of the world restrict the use of annealed glass in areas where there is a high risk of breakage and injury, for example in bathrooms, in door panels, fire exits and at low heights in schools or domestic houses

When I saw that, I knew I found my Glass.

6) Did the Glass really kill Dorny?

You threw me a very nice problem. I know the Window broke and Glass was in the body and could kill it but first this happened

The picture presented to us was nearly as dramatic as cruel. Atop us in the shadows a body
was hanging, blood flushing down the arms. Clearly hanging upside down.

and

Nobody touches the corpse....!!", I must have heard wrong. There was something that looked
like a body hanging from the ceiling, but it couldn't have been

So that raised the possiblity that the body was already before the Glass got into the body. But that just did not fit. After all a body going through a window lands on the floor not the ceiling. So if the body was really on the ceiling how did it get there. Well there two possible ways

First someone might have put it there. But Note the Time this event happened in

But it was time for the surprise. The moment the lights went out, we heard what sounded like
a running gearwheel. Shortly afterward a barking noise and a scream followed, and also the sound
of glass and wood being shattered. Everybody were shocked – except for James Borner he just
made a “hush“ for everybody to stay quiet. Then the lights went back on.
The picture presented to us was nearly as dramatic as cruel. Atop us in the shadows a body
was hanging, blood flushing down the arms. Clearly hanging upside down.

It seem to me at most three or four minutes passed. That is not enough time to have both move and hang the body. So that is Out.

Second something could have been setup to move the body to the ceiling. But again we have a problem with that. Something like that would have been seen. So that is also out.

So having elimating all possible ways the body might have got to the ceiling, we come to the truth. The Body on the ceiling is a FAKE. But that raises a new problem. We already know that the fake body could not have been setup in such a short time. It had to be there the whole time, and yet if that were so, then it would have been seen, or would it? More on this later.

7) Was what was in the shadow real?

Someone ( Eworm ) punned me  and ask what I meant by this.

The picture presented to us was nearly as dramatic as cruel. Atop us in the shadows a body
was hanging, blood flushing down the arms. Clearly hanging upside down.

That is what I meant. The body is in a shadow, and by answering the earlier question, I now know the answer. The answer is No. That body must be a fake.

8) What caused the running gearwheel sound?

The moment the lights went out, we heard what sounded like a running gearwheel.

You now it funny how you answer questions by answer other questions. I asked earlier how could a Fake body be there all the time and yet not be seen until the right moment? Well I have no answer to that. It was obivous to me that somehow the Fake body must have been hidden. Then when I remembered this question, The answer appeared in a flash. The Fake body was hidden by a fake ceiling. The running Gearwheel sound was the sound of the ceiling moving to reveal the Body.

That is the First part of this Deduction. Now comes the next part.

It is obivious that this death very well planned. We got the following: A fake body needing to be set up, A Dog Collar with a remote firestarter in it, A Detective Director making sure people are not where the behind the scene magic is taking place, a switch between two characters; One unseen and waiting for his stage time and the other setting up the first. All this needed to be planned well in advance. And another thing is clear. To pull off this death, more then one person is involved. So the next Question is who and why.

Note these passages:

It sure was uncommon for me to come to such a place, but my friend, professor Dorny, in-
sisted because it was his “final actâ€
Last edited by Kogorou on April 18th, 2011, 4:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
sstimson
Everyone a Critic

Posts:
2588
Contact:

Re: Kogorous Riddle Thread and eworms Deduction Thread

Post by sstimson »

Kogorou, please answer my four points above which i restated below

Problems with the (quote) real answer (unquote)

1)Time. He would have needed more time to get in to the climbing belt then I think he had.
2) Belt. The belt and setup would have been seen entering the room. That would have given the game away
3) Dog. As much as Dias loves her Dog, I see no way for Maria to hurt it. Remember they can see outside through the window.
Again not enough time.
I am going to add a fourth
4) Window. Big in main story small in solution

Lets start with #4 the Window . . .

Window from your story
Kogorous Main Story wrote: From the room's big windows we could see the animals running around and doing fine.
Point one. Next from your solution
Kogorous Solution wrote: Actually don't you find it rather strange that there is such a small window for a room this big?
In the main story it is big, but in the solution it now small? Which is it?

Next #2 Belt . . .

In your Solution you said the following  
Kogorous Solution wrote: You see this piece of string running into the box above the window
and now from the main story
Kogorous Main Story wrote:
The room we were led into was rather big and smokey but we could adore it. Borner was the
only non-smoker here – tobaccos and pipes were everywhere. Some people also brought along their
dogs. Of course they had to be placed outside where they were served water and food. From the
room's big windows we could see the animals running around and doing fine.
Notice the main story says nothing about your little box.

Note in my Second Deduction I questioned this point.
Sstimson's Deduction #2 wrote: 6) Did the Glass really kill Dorny?

You threw me a very nice problem. I know the Window broke and Glass was in the body and could kill it but first this happened
Kogorous Main Story wrote: The picture presented to us was nearly as dramatic as cruel. Atop us in the shadows a body
was hanging, blood flushing down the arms. Clearly hanging upside down.
and
Kogorous Main Story wrote: Nobody touches the corpse....!!", I must have heard wrong. There was something that looked
like a body hanging from the ceiling, but it couldn't have been.
So that raised the possiblity that the body was already before the Glass got into the body. But that just did not fit. After all a body going through a window lands on the floor not the ceiling. So if the body was really on the ceiling how did it get there. Well there two possible ways

First someone might have put it there. But Note the Time this event happened in
Kogorous Main Story wrote: But it was time for the surprise. The moment the lights went out, we heard what sounded like
a running gearwheel. Shortly afterward a barking noise and a scream followed, and also the sound
of glass and wood being shattered. Everybody were shocked – except for James Borner he just
made a “hush“ for everybody to stay quiet. Then the lights went back on.
The picture presented to us was nearly as dramatic as cruel. Atop us in the shadows a body
was hanging, blood flushing down the arms. Clearly hanging upside down.
It seem to me at most three or four minutes passed. That is not enough time to have both move and hang the body. So that is Out.

Second something could have been setup to move the body to the ceiling. But again we have a problem with that. Something like that would have been seen. So that is also out.
Is that thought wrong?

Next #1 Time which was just mentioned
Kogorous Main Story wrote: But it was time for the surprise. The moment the lights went out, we heard what sounded like
a running gearwheel. Shortly afterward a barking noise and a scream followed, and also the sound
of glass and wood being shattered. Everybody were shocked – except for James Borner he just
made a “hush“ for everybody to stay quiet. Then the lights went back on.
The picture presented to us was nearly as dramatic as cruel. Atop us in the shadows a body
was hanging, blood flushing down the arms. Clearly hanging upside down.
Next your solution
Kogorous Solution wrote: You see this piece of string running into the box above the window. There is a small motor installed, strong
enough to pull of good old Ernest. The bad thing was that the big dog there jumped thru the window
and destroyed the mechanism. Actually don't you find it rather strange that there is such a small
window for a room this big?
That's because the upper half is covered with a box containig the winch that pulls on this
string here. A pull on this string here would set the gear on and he would fly up just like he intented
to.
Besides the time needed (remember this is being done in the dark), they should have heard your motor but not mentioned

this is what your story says was heard
Kogorous Main Story wrote:
we heard what sounded like a running gearwheel. Shortly afterward a barking noise and a scream followed, and also the sound
of glass and wood being shattered.
You might say the gear wheel was the motor, and yes when I asked you about the sound of the explosion, you mentioned the thunder. BUT now I know that a series of small explosion went off after the main one and that would have been heard through the hole in the window.

Last is the #3 The Dog

Do I need again to point how much Dias loved her Dog? If needed read my deductions.

Also in your main story you mentioned this:
Kogorous Main Story wrote: From the room's big windows we could see the animals running around and doing fine.
Notice you can see the Dogs clearly through the window.

From your solution
Kogorous Solution wrote: You know that Caerom here is a dog-loving person and she never leaves her dog alone. You wanted to frighten her
but afraid of what would happen you got to her directly you decided to take revenge, that is totally
uncalled for, on her dog."
and from the story
Kogorous Main Story wrote: we heard what sounded like a running gearwheel. Shortly afterward a barking noise and a scream followed, and also the sound
of glass and wood being shattered.
This little time is her only chance to put thing in place. And remember anyone watching will see what she is doing.

I know why you used a ring of explosives, but in the real world that is not necessary. One well placed one will get the Dog jumping in the right direction. And your solution did not have what you and I agreed on. If there is no protection of the Dog, the Dog will be killed by the glass. You agreed that a series of explosives would protect the dog from those sharp glass shards. These would need to be either on the window to make the hole big enough for the Dog to pass through cleanly or on the dog itself to blown any glass shards away from the Dog.
But Maria in your solution would not mind a dead dog.

Another point as much as Dias loves her Dog, even from the inside she would sit as close to the window as she could and would watch her dog as much as possible.

Please explain these points. Thanks

As as a reward for clearing up these points, The only thing I can find to explodes with air is methane. But the article says can not does
http://theintelhub.com/2010/07/17/water-tested-toxic-levels-of-oil-sample-exlodes/
Last edited by sstimson on April 18th, 2011, 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Later

Invisible Member
Spoiler: SS Present from PT
Image
User avatar
eworm
*Brain-Frying Master*

Posts:
191
Contact:

Re: Kogorous Riddle Thread and eworms Deduction Thread

Post by eworm »

Okay, guys, I'm planning to prepare something really interesting for the Brain Frying Riddle #4, but it's going to take some time... So don't expect it anytime soon, unfortunately.
Spoiler:
meitantei tenshi wrote:P.S. If you don’t mind me saying – as a writer myself I found this story pretty hard to follow, it didn’t flow easily when reading.
Hey, tenshi, you're writing too? What a coincidence.
Yes, the answer seems to have some inconsistencies. I hope the next riddle will be planned a bit better. It was fun though.
Your turn, Mokuba!
Last edited by eworm on April 19th, 2011, 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Edogawa4869
GUESS WHO, MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN

Posts:
128

Re: Kogorous Riddle Thread and eworms Deduction Thread

Post by Edogawa4869 »

Ah, yes I'm sorry.  My Patented "Not-So-Brain-Frying-Riddle"© #1!

I can break easily, burn painfully, and be terribly cold.  What am I?
Yugi Moto wrote:Oh, shipping is where you take two characters from a T.V. show, who aren't romantically involved in any shape or form, and then you force them to become a lesbian couple by drawing vivid and gratuitous fan art of them for about six months, before you move on to some other show. Lather, rinse, repeat.
c-square
Shounen Tantei Dan, Dai Seikou!

Posts:
1040

Re: Kogorous Riddle Thread and eworms Deduction Thread

Post by c-square »

Edogawa4869 wrote: Ah, yes I'm sorry.  My Patented "Not-So-Brain-Frying-Riddle"© #1!

I can break easily, burn painfully, and be terribly cold.  What am I?
Spoiler:
A heart?
Image - Get your Detective Conan bobbleheads today! - Image
User avatar
Edogawa4869
GUESS WHO, MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN

Posts:
128

Re: Kogorous Riddle Thread and eworms Deduction Thread

Post by Edogawa4869 »

c-square wrote:
Edogawa4869 wrote: Ah, yes I'm sorry.  My Patented "Not-So-Brain-Frying-Riddle"© #1!

I can break easily, burn painfully, and be terribly cold.  What am I?
Spoiler:
A heart?
And so goes the "Not-So-Brain-Frying-Riddle"© #1! :)
Yugi Moto wrote:Oh, shipping is where you take two characters from a T.V. show, who aren't romantically involved in any shape or form, and then you force them to become a lesbian couple by drawing vivid and gratuitous fan art of them for about six months, before you move on to some other show. Lather, rinse, repeat.
c-square
Shounen Tantei Dan, Dai Seikou!

Posts:
1040

Re: Kogorous Riddle Thread and eworms Deduction Thread

Post by c-square »

Next Riddle:

We all know Kogoro is a private detective, and Shinichi (Conan) and Heiji are also detectives.  There are the detectives on the police force, and the ones that have appeared only once or twice (i.e. Hakuba).  Ayumi, Genta and Mitsuhiko make up the Detective Boys.  But there is one other character, a rather main character, who doesn't act like one in public, but is actually a detective in private.  Who is this person, and what proof do you have they they are secretly a detective too?
Image - Get your Detective Conan bobbleheads today! - Image
User avatar
xpon
Community Sepll Chkecer
Spreading the cuteness, all over DCTP

Posts:
5848
Contact:

Re: Kogorous Riddle Thread and eworms Deduction Thread

Post by xpon »

i say
Spoiler:
yusaku... or eisuke...
xpon is so cute...
Image                         Image
Even Ayumi~chan and Sera~chan love to hug him.....
Thanks to sonoci & Yuri
User avatar
eworm
*Brain-Frying Master*

Posts:
191
Contact:

Re: Kogorous Riddle Thread and eworms Deduction Thread

Post by eworm »

Well, of course it's
Spoiler:
Goro the cat-detective! ;)
or
Spoiler:
Burned-cheek Akai. He solved the 700 red shirts problem even faster than Conan.
sstimson
Everyone a Critic

Posts:
2588
Contact:

Re: Kogorous Riddle Thread and eworms Deduction Thread

Post by sstimson »

c-square wrote: Next Riddle:

We all know Kogoro is a private detective, and Shinichi (Conan) and Heiji are also detectives.  There are the detectives on the police force, and the ones that have appeared only once or twice (i.e. Hakuba).  Ayumi, Genta and Mitsuhiko make up the Detective Boys.  But there is one other character, a rather main character, who doesn't act like one in public, but is actually a detective in private.  Who is this person, and what proof do you have they they are secretly a detective too?
You said a main character, like shows up in most cases?
Spoiler:
That should be Ran. She trying the solve the Difficult case of Is Conan or not Shinichi. Also solved at least three cases

Car Poisoning, What is Conan password, and Who stealing goods from the store where my friend works
Later

Invisible Member
Spoiler: SS Present from PT
Image
c-square
Shounen Tantei Dan, Dai Seikou!

Posts:
1040

Re: Kogorous Riddle Thread and eworms Deduction Thread

Post by c-square »

Buu-buu..

Wrong, wrong and wrong.  Try again.
Spoiler: Hint
Bad pun is bad
And xpon, you didn't give any reasoning with your guesses.
Image - Get your Detective Conan bobbleheads today! - Image
Post Reply