Is Sharon a BO member?

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
sstimson
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Re: Is Sharon a BO member?

Post by sstimson »

Shuusgirl wrote:
ABS. HAS INVADED THIS SENTENCE AND CANNOT BE STOPPED!!!11 wrote:
Shuusgirl wrote:The only time it mentions them together is at Sharon's husband's funeral.
I'm gonna stop you right there.

At Sharon's husband's grave, no one else was mentioned to be around, and "Chris" was supposedly disguised to look exactly like Sharon's deceased husband.
Oh dang it, you're right.  My main point remains, though.  It wouldn't be hard for the B.O to get someone to play one of the parts for an hour.  In this case, it...
Oh wait, if no one else was around, then they wouldn't need a double.  Darn it, just ignore me... :(
Unfortunately. Even I have to agree to this question: Was this just a story she told or did it happen?

But if it did, then think about this: Why would the BO hire a double? Because you can be sure that after their part they are dead!
Which is why if it did happen, then it is very good proof for them being two different persons.
Last edited by sstimson on April 2nd, 2011, 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Sharon a BO member?

Post by Abs. »

Or Sharon's husband never having died in the first place.
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Re: Is Sharon a BO member?

Post by thorongil »

at first... hello to everyone ... this is my first post in these forums and i'm quite new to the DC world (approxamately 2 months or so if you exclude the few episodes of the anime i watched on tv with german dub many years ago, they haven't even dubbed the four porsches here)
and therefore i hope i don't sound to self confident with myself regarding this topic or any other one but i read and watched all BO chapters and episodes at least twice and the one which seems to be the most import one in this topic (ep 345) at least 4 times because i really like the showdown at that harbour.

from my pov, i might say that i understand what you want to point out, sstimson. but i cant say that i agree with... while i can follow your points i must say that with the facts given in the manga (and even so the anime) it is at this point almost undeniable that sharon and chris are in fact the same person... what i want to say is that most of things you say provide the evidence that they are different people are in most cases reading more into things than there really are or at least so it seems... you take many things into consideration that could be... but thats all up to interpretation of the given pictures and lines of the manga... while most of them were revealed to hint at/ prove that sharon = chris = vermouth by conan&jodie(gosha himself) you seem to force the facts so that your own hopes that gosha just tries to mislead us with all this become true ...
i apologize to you if this offends you because i don't mean to, i just want to say what it looks like to me... but if i'm right i can understand you because i do the same with the "akai=subaruokiya - theory"

at last.. i want to express my apologies if there are problem with the grammar at any point.. as hinted above i'm native german language user, well i did the cambridge language certificat once but failed with 1 point 2years ago and i use only use english in forums or while watching series from the US(clone wars/bigbangtheory) or the dctp-subs currently
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Re: Is Sharon a BO member?

Post by Shuusgirl »

Welcome thorongil!
I agree, I'm pretty sure they're the same person.  However, I could see the B.O. hiring someone to play her (obviously not telling the actress everything about Vermouth and stuff) and then killing her when Sharon died.  That solves the problem of what body is in the coffin. 
Unless the coffin was empty and B.O people where the pallbearers. They certainly have the right wardrobe for the job.
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Re: Is Sharon a BO member?

Post by S.G.T. »

Hi shuugirl first of all I would like to thank you for your answer
Shuusgirl wrote: First of all, I'm pretty sure Shinichi's name isn't super unusual.  (Didn't even he say that or something?  Or am I just crazy?)  So that's like saying, "do you know a John Smith" and you going, "I have friends with the last name of Smith but...".  It probably wouldn't get her into trouble.

Secondly, how close where Sharon and Yukiko.  It kinda suggests not that close.  After all, Shinichi meets Sharon once before her "death".  If they were close friends, shouldn't he have known who she was before that?  Yukiko being at her funeral doesn't prove much, heck, I'd go to some classmate's funeral!  It doesn't mean they were best friends or anything.  Especially because she looks like she's just one of the mouners, not in any special position.
To your first point i would like to say that you could be totally right and it could be me beeing exaggerating in beeing to correct rather than Vermouth or even Gosho making some slight mistake.
But..... I really would like to mention that I did not meant that Vermouth could get into trouble with anybody from BO (I think it would take a lot of her to get into trouble), rather than Gin getting cautions about Shinichi. That could probably only mean that Gins behavior or his mind changes slightly about some odd (from his POV) topics.
Keep in mind: 1.She really wanted to prevent that his slightest interst towards shinichi
                      arrouses.
                     2.She lifed for most of her life in the USA.
and now answer. Do you know a John Smith?

To your second point : I totally agree that it is not mandatory for an objective observer that Sharon knew Shinichi.
Butt... the possibilty that Yukiko and Sharon met 1 year ago in NY is very high,(Since Yukiko solved a murder case during a play which made sharon very famous) and from Gin POV even higher because he knows Vermouth was in NY in this very night.
And than the probability is also very high that when two mothers chat , they sooner or later talk about their children . So she probably knew his name or was even forced to look at baby fotos of shinich.(I am not Joking, I think we still do not know how Vermouth knows about Conan beeing Shinichi)

However I can not overemphasise that it is probably just me being to fussy about some lines with minor importance .
I think this icon expresses fussiness  :o or it is a suprised face. I am not sure about that point.
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Re: Is Sharon a BO member?

Post by sstimson »

Shuusgirl wrote:
...

Secondly, how close where Sharon and Yukiko.  It kinda suggests not that close.  After all, Shinichi meets Sharon once before her "death".  If they were close friends, shouldn't he have known who she was before that?  Yukiko being at her funeral doesn't prove much, heck, I'd go to some classmate's funeral!  It doesn't mean they were best friends or anything.  Especially because she looks like she's just one of the mouners, not in any special position.
I still there is a very good chance that Sharon and Yukiko were very close friends

1) Both likely learned their disguise methods under Kids Father
2) Both were in the same career and it is possible were both actors in the same movie. It is very likely both were on the same movie lot
3) Remember Yukiko left her career about the time she married and had a kid. It appears that Sharon stayed in the field and was still in her career when Shinichi met her in New York. I sure they ( Yukiko and Sharon ) stayed in touch. This should also explain why Shinichi did not know about her. Note that Ran's interest meant she of course did.
4) How many close friends know the habits of the other? Sharon knew about Yukiko's Crazy driving and stepped in to help her.
5) How many close friends get tickets to a sold out broadway show and then give them to that friend. Not to mention arranging a back stage
tour for that friend. Note Sharon did this for Yukiko.

Sharon's personalty, to me at least, seem very different compared to Chris's.

The time line would be Sharon dying after the New York trip after Yukiko and Shinichi temporary parted ways.

Anyway, the five points above point to Sharon and Yukiko having a closer then normal close friend relationship.
Last edited by sstimson on April 2nd, 2011, 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Sharon a BO member?

Post by Shuusgirl »

sstimson wrote:
Shuusgirl wrote:
...

Secondly, how close where Sharon and Yukiko.  It kinda suggests not that close.  After all, Shinichi meets Sharon once before her "death".  If they were close friends, shouldn't he have known who she was before that?  Yukiko being at her funeral doesn't prove much, heck, I'd go to some classmate's funeral!  It doesn't mean they were best friends or anything.  Especially because she looks like she's just one of the mouners, not in any special position.
I still there is a very good chance that Sharon and Yukiko were very close friends

1) Both likely learned their disguise methods under Kids Father
2) Both were in the same career and it is possible were both actors in the same movie. It is very likely both were on the same movie lot
3) Remember Yukiko left her career about the time she married and had a kid. It appears that Sharon stayed in the field and was still in her career when Shinichi met her in New York. I sure they ( Yukiko and Sharon ) stayed in touch. This should also explain why Shinichi did not know about her. Note that Ran's interest meant she of course did.
4) How many close friends know the habits of the other? Sharon knew about Yukiko's Crazy driving and stepped in to help her.
5) How many close friends get tickets to a sold out broadway show and then give them to that friend. Not to mention arranging a back stage
tour for that friend. Note Sharon did this for Yukiko.

Sharon's personalty, to me at least, seem very different compared to Chris's.

The time line would be Sharon dying after the New York trip after Yukiko and Shinichi temporary parted ways.

Anyway, the five points above point to Sharon and Yukiko having a closer then normal close friend relationship.

1) I think they were at least good friends for awhile, while they were learning under KID, but after awhile they fell away.  Not so odd considering Yukiko gets married and has Shinichi. 
2) I don't think that they were ever in the same movie.  Sharon's an American actress, while Yukiko's a Japanese one.
3) But if they stayed in touch so well, shouldn't Yukiko have mentioned something about Sharon, like at the dinner table or something.  Shinichi knew who she was, but he didn't even know that she could disguise herself, which suggests he knows her by face/rep, but nothing really about her.
4) You don't need to be close with someone to know their habits if it's flashy.  The way Yukiko drives is incredibly flashy.  I bet you'd find that out by visiting a fan site.
5) When you're rich and have lots of influence, then you can give more extravagent presents and it doesn't mean much.  Also, there could have been a reason Sharon wanted to be in public that day.
I'm not disagreeing that they kept in touch, I'm just saying it sounds more like a "email and call once and a while" sort of relationship.  That's not really close friends, that's more like regular friends.  Close friends would stay over, visit more often, be a big part of the other's life, etc.  But when that's the first time Shinichi's even met his mom's friend...that suggests that they're not a huge part of each other's life.

But I agree, Sharon's personality is way different than Chris's.  I'm interested to see which one is her true personality, or if it changed as she got further and further in with the B.O.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." --Sherlock Holmes
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Re: Is Sharon a BO member?

Post by thorongil »

Shuusgirl wrote: 4) You don't need to be close with someone to know their habits if it's flashy.  The way Yukiko drives is incredibly flashy.  I bet you'd find that out by visiting a fan site.
5) When you're rich and have lots of influence, then you can give more extravagent presents and it doesn't mean much.  Also, there could have been a reason Sharon wanted to be in public that day.
I'm not disagreeing that they kept in touch, I'm just saying it sounds more like a "email and call once and a while" sort of relationship.  That's not really close friends, that's more like regular friends.  Close friends would stay over, visit more often, be a big part of the other's life, etc.  But when that's the first time Shinichi's even met his mom's friend...that suggests that they're not a huge part of each other's life.

But I agree, Sharon's personality is way different than Chris's.  I'm interested to see which one is her true personality, or if it changed as she got further and further in with the B.O.
exactly my thoughts...
but concerning sharons personality... how much do we really know about her?!?... something like 2-4 chapter with her playing an active role mostly around yukiko whom she seem to truely regard as a friend or at least i think so,...
on the contrary chris who is most of the time either in some disguise playing someone elses personality or around the bad guys whom she cannot show her true self
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Re: Is Sharon a BO member?

Post by Abs. »

thorongil wrote: but concerning sharons personality... how much do we really know about her?!?... something like 2-4 chapter with her playing an active role mostly around yukiko whom she seem to truely regard as a friend or at least i think so,...
on the contrary chris who is most of the time either in some disguise playing someone elses personality or around the bad guys whom she cannot show her true self
^ This. Also keep in mind that in real life at least, people also show dramatically different "personalities" when around different (groups of) people.
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Re: Is Sharon a BO member?

Post by thorongil »

thats something i totally forgot to consider ... yeah... this is quite often the case with many people...
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Re: Is Sharon a BO member?

Post by Shuusgirl »

At the end of the day, I think that we don't really know...anything.  About Sharon/Chris/Vermouth's personality, I mean.  As for if they're different people, I'm going with the cannon (at least for now) that they are.  Was she a B.O member as Sharon? Prolly.  I'd put my money on it.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." --Sherlock Holmes
Yeah Kogoro, did you read this one?
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