Okiya Subaru's True Identity

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Post Reply
User avatar
caribou

Posts:
269
Contact:

Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by caribou »

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote: Okiya hasn't shown any motives which are definitely harmful to the protagonists.
...
If Okiya is Akai, it's not surprising that he would have done some background investigation on Conan. Conan never told any of the FBI why he is opposing the B.O. or how he got involved with them in the first place. On top of that, Conan is insanely smart for a 7 to 8 year old. Who wouldn't be curious?
I can't argue with that, but, the whole Okiya = Akai and Akai is alive and Akai is completely good and will help Conan destroy the BO...just seems too good to be true. I don't have concrete proof, but I think the whole point of Vermouth's silver bullet analogy is to make Shinichi's role more important in destroying the BO. One silver bullet is all that is needed. If the second silver bullet reappears, well to me that's just not moving the story at all. :S

(yeah, that's my only argument against Okiya = Akai, sorry :x)

am also not denying that if he was Akai, he would of course want to research on Conan. but that doesn't close the possibility of Okiya being someone else (eg Bourbon) who is looking up those close to Conan. as I've said, he didn't necessarily have to zoom in on Conan straight away -- if he realised the increasing prominence of Kogoro and the DB, then he would have looked them up.

@Mizzicco: hmmm personally don't think Bourbon is Hakuba, since he seems more central to the Magic Kaito story... unless Gosho is merging the two stories together! which will be pretty cool, but so mind boggling for him @_@
"Shh! Celebrate after the curtain of this bloody stage closes."

Image
Huty
Red Panda Trolling Kitâ„¢

Posts:
171

Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by Huty »

caribou wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote: Okiya hasn't shown any motives which are definitely harmful to the protagonists.
...
If Okiya is Akai, it's not surprising that he would have done some background investigation on Conan. Conan never told any of the FBI why he is opposing the B.O. or how he got involved with them in the first place. On top of that, Conan is insanely smart for a 7 to 8 year old. Who wouldn't be curious?
I can't argue with that, but, the whole Okiya = Akai and Akai is alive and Akai is completely good and will help Conan destroy the BO...just seems too good to be true. I don't have concrete proof, but I think the whole point of Vermouth's silver bullet analogy is to make Shinichi's role more important in destroying the BO. One silver bullet is all that is needed. If the second silver bullet reappears, well to me that's just not moving the story at all. :S

(yeah, that's my only argument against Okiya = Akai, sorry :x)

am also not denying that if he was Akai, he would of course want to research on Conan. but that doesn't close the possibility of Okiya being someone else (eg Bourbon) who is looking up those close to Conan. as I've said, he didn't necessarily have to zoom in on Conan straight away -- if he realised the increasing prominence of Kogoro and the DB, then he would have looked them up.

@Mizzicco: hmmm personally don't think Bourbon is Hakuba, since he seems more central to the Magic Kaito story... unless Gosho is merging the two stories together! which will be pretty cool, but so mind boggling for him @_@
I'm not going to get too involved in this heated debate, but I don't think Akai would do research on Conan.
He just didn't seem very interested in anything else but shutting the BO down, or at least making their lives harder. Maybe if he was suspicious of Conan, but he seemed to trust him more than most others did, so that's unlikely.
Terry wrote:To discuss the implications of that post, and to consider the moral problems raised by the thought process involved, we have a duck, a cat and a lizard.
ACCESS DENIED wrote:Parkur trolls even in his sleep.
Key-chan
Angels don't exist? Then you haven't met one yet.

Posts:
119

Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by Key-chan »

I say Okiya's true identity is...*huhu* arguments first: we haven't seen him in a while, he knows about the presence of the FBI, he knows of the existence of the BO, and Conan most likely knows him if he trusts him just like that.

Therefore, I say Okiya is in reality Araide 8D *hides behind desk*
Image
(Rock'n'Roll-Shinichi ftw)
Mizzicco
The Rabbit With A Murderous Desire....

Posts:
916

Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by Mizzicco »

hehe possible but not likely IMO
Abs.
DCTP Staff Hero

Posts:
3270

Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by Abs. »

Key-chan wrote: I say Okiya's true identity is...*huhu* arguments first: we haven't seen him in a while, he knows about the presence of the FBI, he knows of the existence of the BO, and Conan most likely knows him if he trusts him just like that.

Therefore, I say Okiya is in reality Araide 8D *hides behind desk*
Real Araide didn't impress me too much the first time we saw him.  When Real Araide came back, he seemed to be a better character, and I'm going to say that it was partly because of the "history" Vermouth built up for him.

But, if we go with your theory:

1. Amazing new product: Instant super deductive ability pills!
2. I guess Jodie must have told him a whole lot more than he needed to know about the BO, since he was able to recognize them all without ever having seen them before (exception: Vermouth)
3. He sure has a lot of free time, even though he's still running his clinic

BY THE WAY, whatever happened to him, Hikaru, and grandma moving up to Aomori so he could work at a big hospital there?  Did that change just because his father died and he has to take over the business in Beika/Haido?
Your opinion is always requested in Abs.' Random Polls of Whenever
Key-chan
Angels don't exist? Then you haven't met one yet.

Posts:
119

Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by Key-chan »

Insert Quote
Quote from: Key-chan on September 18, 2009, 02:40:05 PM
I say Okiya's true identity is...*huhu* arguments first: we haven't seen him in a while, he knows about the presence of the FBI, he knows of the existence of the BO, and Conan most likely knows him if he trusts him just like that.

Therefore, I say Okiya is in reality Araide 8D *hides behind desk*


Real Araide didn't impress me too much the first time we saw him.  When Real Araide came back, he seemed to be a better character, and I'm going to say that it was partly because of the "history" Vermouth built up for him.

But, if we go with your theory:

1. Amazing new product: Instant super deductive ability pills!
2. I guess Jodie must have told him a whole lot more than he needed to know about the BO, since he was able to recognize them all without ever having seen them before (exception: Vermouth)
3. He sure has a lot of free time, even though he's still running his clinic

BY THE WAY, whatever happened to him, Hikaru, and grandma moving up to Aomori so he could work at a big hospital there?  Did that change just because his father died and he has to take over the business in Beika/Haido?
I'm not very good at making jokes, am I? People can't usually tell when I do...I was kinda hoping the "8D" would be a hint, but oh well.

Ah, but I have another candidate ;D He was smart enough to figure out Conan was Shinichi, so why wouldn't it be Eisuke? (Yes I like making random pointless guesses. I'm only two inches away from saying Okiya is Ayumi :P)
Image
(Rock'n'Roll-Shinichi ftw)
Mizzicco
The Rabbit With A Murderous Desire....

Posts:
916

Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by Mizzicco »

;D ;D ;D
Abs.
DCTP Staff Hero

Posts:
3270

Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by Abs. »

Key-chan wrote: I'm not very good at making jokes, am I? People can't usually tell when I do...I was kinda hoping the "8D" would be a hint, but oh well.

Ah, but I have another candidate ;D He was smart enough to figure out Conan was Shinichi, so why wouldn't it be Eisuke? (Yes I like making random pointless guesses. I'm only two inches away from saying Okiya is Ayumi :P)
I was just going along with it so I'd get a chance to say "I LIKE DR. ARAIDE, VERMOUTH VERSION, BETTER"

Btw, everyone knows that Okiya is Kogorou.  Have you ever seen the two of them together in the same place?  :P
Your opinion is always requested in Abs.' Random Polls of Whenever
Kor
Administrator

Posts:
3051

Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by Kor »

Abs. wrote:
Btw, everyone knows that Okiya is Kogorou.  Have you ever seen the two of them together in the same place?   :P
ehh...yes.
Image
Mizzicco
The Rabbit With A Murderous Desire....

Posts:
916

Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by Mizzicco »

Kor wrote:
Btw, everyone knows that Okiya is Kogorou.  Have you ever seen the two of them together in the same place?  :P



in the manga.....and i know i know u were just kidding   :P
Last edited by Mizzicco on September 19th, 2009, 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Found
Dead.

Posts:
1207

Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by Found »

Yes, in the red shirt case thingy. But with a few disguises (as is common in DC) that could work out.

@Key-chan: OMG Phoenix Wright. <3 (sig)
No amount of apologies will express how much I regret it.
soratothamax
Bang.....

Posts:
899
Contact:

Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by soratothamax »

I  believe the scarred Akai could be Bourbon, but I don't believe Okiya is Akai in disguise.

Some arguments people have used:

1. Fake Akai used his left Hand
First off, real Akai could be ambidextrous (be able to use both hands), which is not uncommon for FBI members for undercover purposes.

2. Shinichi let Okiya stay in his house. Why would he do that if he were the enemy?
Of course, Shinichi wouldn't let a threat stay in his house, but Shinichi could also well know how far the person will go. Shinichi might also want to see if this person really is Bourbon. He might also want to use evidence left behind by Bourbon in his home. If Bourbon decides to leave, he can find evidence easily based on habits, phone calls, etc that he knows will be too out of the ordinary for him. He might have left a microphone chip or something to listen in on him.

To me there was a reason the supposed "fake Akai" left a message for Jodie-sensei. And there is a reason Okiya is around Sherry. I believe Okiya knows Sherry somehow, but not as Akai. He seems out-of-character for Akai. Okiya could be Sherry's father, whom she never met. Fake Akai could be Bourbon.

Okiya could be Bourbon, and fake Akai could be Akai.
Last edited by soratothamax on September 19th, 2009, 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ImageImageImage
User avatar
Chekhov MacGuffin
Community Scholar
BAGA BGEGD EDBDEG A

Posts:
2684

Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by Chekhov MacGuffin »

soratothamax wrote: I  believe the scarred Akai could be Bourbon, but I don't believe Okiya is Akai in disguise.

Some arguments people have used:

1. Fake Akai used his left Hand
First off, real Akai could be ambidextrous (be able to use both hands), which is not uncommon for FBI members for undercover purposes.

2. Shinichi let Okiya stay in his house. Why would he do that if he were the enemy?
Of course, Shinichi wouldn't let a threat stay in his house, but Shinichi could also well know how far the person will go. Shinichi might also want to see if this person really is Bourbon. He might also want to use evidence left behind by Bourbon in his home. If Bourbon decides to leave, he can find evidence easily based on habits, phone calls, etc that he knows will be too out of the ordinary for him. He might have left a microphone chip or something to listen in on him.

To me there was a reason the supposed "fake Akai" left a message for Jodie-sensei. And there is a reason Okiya is around Sherry. I believe Okiya knows Sherry somehow, but not as Akai. He seems out-of-character for Akai. Okiya could be Sherry's father, whom she never met. Fake Akai could be Bourbon.

Okiya could be Bourbon, and fake Akai could be Akai.
1. Akai is left hand dominant, even if he is good with his right hand. He would use his left is he had the choice to. Also ambidexterity is rare, regardless of whether you are an FBI agent or not. It is NOT true that FBI agents are often ambidextrous in real life. None of the FBI agents in DC are shown to be ambidextrous either.

2. There are a couple of problems with your theory that Conan put Okiya in his house to observe him. For fuller explanations see here. Conan seems to know about Okiya’s address despite having never met him. That seems to indicate that Conan knew about Okiya before meeting him. How would Conan know about a B.O. member like that? I doubt Conan could have figured it out in just one case because there was no evidence beyond Okiya being smart and referencing Sherlock Holmes, and Haibara wasn't sure which guy was giving off the aura. Conan is cautious, he wouldn't just let some random guy he thinks might be a syndicate member live in his house. Also, how in the heck would Conan know how far a particular member would go? Conan isn't omnipotent. He had no idea how far Vermouth would go until he made the connection to Chris Vineyard and pieced together the reasons behind her strange actions with evidence.

While the saying goes keep your friends close and your enemies closer, letting a syndicate member live next door is a bloody ridiculous idea because Conan would be putting everyone he cares about in danger. There is no way that Conan would let a potential B.O. agent live near Haibara since, as neighbors, they have a high chance of meeting. A syndicate agent with any observational talent would figure out Haibara was Sherry. Anyone who knows her would probably be murdered. Also, by letting Okiya live in the house, it is certain that Okiya will find out Shinichi is alive. Conan himself basically told Okiya that Shinichi was alive when loaning his house keys out. If Okiya were a B.O. agent, that would mean an inevitable death sentence for everyone Conan knows, including Ran, because the B.O. would want to erase everyone who might know Shinichi was still alive and what he was investigating since Shinichi may have left compromising hints or the like. Basically, a B.O. agent living next door who isn’t Vermouth or similar is a death sentence.
Spoiler:
Image
Conan previously acknowledged that his house would be one of the best places so spy on Haibara and him from. It stands to reason that he might consider an ally like Akai living there a bonus despite the risk of Akai figuring out that Conan is Shinichi.  
Spoiler:
Image
Jodie does not know scar Akai left her the message, she only assumed he did. Okiya could have left it as well.
Last edited by Chekhov MacGuffin on September 19th, 2009, 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kor
Administrator

Posts:
3051

Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by Kor »

soratothamax wrote: To me there was a reason the supposed "fake Akai" left a message for Jodie-sensei. And there is a reason Okiya is around Sherry. I believe Okiya knows Sherry somehow, but not as Akai. He seems out-of-character for Akai. Okiya could be Sherry's father, whom she never met. Fake Akai could be Bourbon.

Okiya could be Bourbon, and fake Akai could be Akai.
What's "Okiya being Out of character for Akai" is proving? When Vermouth was disguising Araide wasn't she "out of character" herself. When you disguise or try to act as someone else, you are not suppose to be the real you, but the "you" that you are trying to pretend to be. And you don't have to be an actor to know that or at least you don't have to learn how to act. I said before, there are a lot of people in holywood who can do that, even I can do that, why wouldn't Akai be able to do that as well?
Did the guy who was playing Hitler in Shameless Bastards (was that the name of the movie?) was really a nazi? No (or at least let's hope he wasn't... ;D)
And many more examples in many more movies...
Last edited by Kor on September 19th, 2009, 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
caribou

Posts:
269
Contact:

Re: Okiya Subaru's True Identify

Post by caribou »

Kor wrote:
soratothamax wrote: To me there was a reason the supposed "fake Akai" left a message for Jodie-sensei. And there is a reason Okiya is around Sherry. I believe Okiya knows Sherry somehow, but not as Akai. He seems out-of-character for Akai. Okiya could be Sherry's father, whom she never met. Fake Akai could be Bourbon.

Okiya could be Bourbon, and fake Akai could be Akai.
What's "Okiya being Out of character for Akai" is proving? When Vermouth was disguising Araide wasn't she "out of character" herself. When you disguise or try to act as someone else, you are not suppose to be the real you, but the "you" that you are trying to pretend to be. And you don't have to be an actor to know that or at least you don't have to learn how to act. I said before, there are a lot of people in holywood who can do that, even I can do that, why wouldn't Akai be able to do that as well?
Did the guy who was playing Hitler in Shameless Bastards (was that the name of the movie?) was really a nazi? No (or at least let's hope he wasn't... ;D)
And many more examples in many more movies...
I think that's different, though. :/ when Vermouth disguised as Dr. Araide, she had to play a person who was known to quite a lot of people e.g. Ran, Conan, the school, etc etc. so she had to assume a particular person's character. But if Akai is disguising himself as Okiya, he doesn't actually have to assume a completely different personality, because nobody knew Okiya beforehand!

I believe the movie you were talking about is Inglourious Basterds? :P (the Brad Pitt one?) I got to watch that, it looks hilarious. :D /off-topic

I think the argument that Conan will not let an enemy into his own home, MAY exclude the possibility of Okiya being a BO member (though I'm not totally convinced, but let's assume I am) but it doesn't necessarily point to him being Akai. He could be anyone that Conan trusts and we haven't seen for a while. Yes there are other suggestive factors, but it just doesn't cut it for me.
"Shh! Celebrate after the curtain of this bloody stage closes."

Image
Post Reply