Akai (SPOILERS)

[Shuusgirl]

• I don't think having them take Akai out in such a manner with the excuse for it being "damage control" or "two birds with one stone" to be good enough explanations as to why use Kir to kill him in this particular way.
• I also doesn't think the difficulties with faking, manipulating, editing or hacking the footage from the camera placed inside the choker of Kir's neck to be good enough reason for this set-up. Yeah it could likely be either difficult of impossible to fake the footage from the camera to enough of an extent to fool Gin but at the same time it's just as difficult to control Kir to do exactly what Gin wants at that kind of distance. It's not as if anyone else's life aside from her own and Akai's are really at stake here.

I dunno, Gin strikes me as someone who tries to be efficient.  The deaths that we've seen done be him are secret and don't waste much time.  They (Gin and Vodka) come, kill, go.  So I could see him having Akai killed this way.  
Also, even though he hates Akai, having an underling kill him instead of Gin himself could be seen as an insult.  Like, "you're not worth my time to kill, so Kir will kill you for me and I'll just watch".  

[Suutashi]

• I don't think having them take Akai out in such a manner with the excuse for it being "damage control" or "two birds with one stone" to be good enough explanations as to why use Kir to kill him in this particular way.
• I also doesn't think the difficulties with faking, manipulating, editing or hacking the footage from the camera placed inside the choker of Kir's neck to be good enough reason for this set-up. Yeah it could likely be either difficult of impossible to fake the footage from the camera to enough of an extent to fool Gin but at the same time it's just as difficult to control Kir to do exactly what Gin wants at that kind of distance. It's not as if anyone else's life aside from her own and Akai's are really at stake here.

I dunno, Gin strikes me as someone who tries to be efficient.  The deaths that we've seen done be him are secret and don't waste much time.  They (Gin and Vodka) come, kill, go.  So I could see him having Akai killed this way.  
Also, even though he hates Akai, having an underling kill him instead of Gin himself could be seen as an insult.  Like, "you're not worth my time to kill, so Kir will kill you for me and I'll just watch".  

I'm sorry but I can't agree with this. Even if Gin is considered as being efficient in how he kills this is not a case of him assassinating someone who is just a mere possible threat to the Org. Akai was not only a serious threat but was a traitor to boot. Gin is been shown to obsess over traitors, especially Sherry and he'll likely go out of his way to take care of them himself even when another agent is about to get caught by the police in a very high profile situation that should really be his priority. This was demonstrated as such in Reunion of the Black Corps (volume 24 chapters  7-11 / files 238-242 and episodes 176-178 of the anime). Also I don't see Gin using Kir to kill Akai just so it would be an insult as being in character with Gin nor it is a good enough reason to kill Akai in such a manner as this. What would make more sense to me would be if Kir was used to lure Akai to Raiha Falls and then Gin would dispose of Akai himself. Then Kir could be taken care (killed) by Gin where he would plenty of time to take of evidence to cover his tracks or Kir could instead be used to help to dispose of evidence which then her reaction to Akai's death as well as disposing of evidence could maybe be used to gauge her loyalty to the Org. The use of Akai's death in this manner to test Kir's loyalty would be in a much more controlled situation while also satisfying Gin's obsession with traitors.

[Shuusgirl]

I'm sorry but I can't agree with this. Even if Gin is considered as being efficient in how he kills this is not a case of him assassinating someone who is just a mere possible threat to the Org. Akai was not only a serious threat but was a traitor to boot. Gin is been shown to obsess over traitors, especially Sherry and he'll likely go out of his way to take care of them himself even when another agent is about to get caught by the police in a very high profile situation that should really be his priority. This was demonstrated as such in Reunion of the Black Corps (volume 24 chapters  7-11 / files 238-242 and episodes 176-178 of the anime). Also I don't see Gin using Kir to kill Akai just so it would be an insult as being in character with Gin nor it is a good enough reason to kill Akai in such a manner as this. What would make more sense to me would be if Kir was used to lure Akai to Raiha Falls and then Gin would dispose of Akai himself. Then Kir could be taken care (killed) by Gin where he would plenty of time to take of evidence to cover his tracks or Kir could instead be used to help to dispose of evidence which then her reaction to Akai's death as well as disposing of evidence could maybe be used to gauge her loyalty to the Org. The use of Akai's death in this manner to test Kir's loyalty would be in a much more controlled situation while also satisfying Gin's obsession with traitors.

It's true, but Gosho's even said that Gin has an "abnormal attachment" to Sherry.  So I don't think we can use the way he handles her leaving and say that's how he'd feel and react with all traitors.
Also, I'm not saying that I think that Gin had Kir kill Akai as an insult, just that it's a possibility.  After all, I'd be willing to bet the reason Akai grew out his hair was a subtle way of sucking up to Gin (Akai was Gin's protegee).  Reversing that, not killing his enemy himself but letting an underling do it could be saying that Akai's not worth Gin's time.  Again, this is all conjecture, but still possible.
I don't really think that Gin letting Kir kill Akai is totally out of character anyway.

Fixed your broken quote - Abs.

[Suutashi]

I'm sorry but I can't agree with this. Even if Gin is considered as being efficient in how he kills this is not a case of him assassinating someone who is just a mere possible threat to the Org. Akai was not only a serious threat but was a traitor to boot. Gin is been shown to obsess over traitors, especially Sherry and he'll likely go out of his way to take care of them himself even when another agent is about to get caught by the police in a very high profile situation that should really be his priority. This was demonstrated as such in Reunion of the Black Corps (volume 24 chapters  7-11 / files 238-242 and episodes 176-178 of the anime). Also I don't see Gin using Kir to kill Akai just so it would be an insult as being in character with Gin nor it is a good enough reason to kill Akai in such a manner as this. What would make more sense to me would be if Kir was used to lure Akai to Raiha Falls and then Gin would dispose of Akai himself. Then Kir could be taken care (killed) by Gin where he would plenty of time to take of evidence to cover his tracks or Kir could instead be used to help to dispose of evidence which then her reaction to Akai's death as well as disposing of evidence could maybe be used to gauge her loyalty to the Org. The use of Akai's death in this manner to test Kir's loyalty would be in a much more controlled situation while also satisfying Gin's obsession with traitors.

It's true, but Gosho's even said that Gin has an "abnormal attachment" to Sherry.  So I don't think we can use the way he handles her leaving and say that's how he'd feel and react with all traitors.
Also, I'm not saying that I think that Gin had Kir kill Akai as an insult, just that it's a possibility.  After all, I'd be willing to bet the reason Akai grew out his hair was a subtle way of sucking up to Gin (Akai was Gin's protegee).  Reversing that, not killing his enemy himself but letting an underling do it could be saying that Akai's not worth Gin's time.  Again, this is all conjecture, but still possible.
I don't really think that Gin letting Kir kill Akai is totally out of character anyway.

Fixed your broken quote - Abs.

I don't really think Akai grew his hair out as a way to suck up to Gin. Think about how long Akai's hair was before he cut it. Even if his hair grew very quickly it would take maybe three to five years for it grow to that length. I know someone, a guy, who grew his hair out and had very thick, very fast growing hair. It took him about a year for it to grow about a foot or so. I can't be sure how long Akai's was since I can't use his height as a reference but it was the very least a good three to three and a half feet long. It's likely he had the long hair before he infiltrated the Black Org. Also we have no real hard evidence that he was Gin's protege' at this time. As for Gin letting Kir kill Akai: Gin has his own beef with Akai and vice versus meaning that Gin would be more than happy to take care of Akai himself. Why bother using a Kir as a proxy for this? Plus there is too much at stake here to have someone who's loyalty to the Org is still in doubt be charged with killing Akai. How many times have we seen the Org kill or destroy something or someone just to keep the Org a secret? The death of Jodie's father; Shinichi's attempted murder; the death of Pisco by the hands of Gin; the lab Sherry, now Haibara, was working in blown away; Conan and Kogoro's near brush with death when Gin suspected Kogoro's involvement with Kir and Sherry; the hospital where Kir had been hospitalized and the people who worked there nearly bit the dust if it weren't for Kir not wanting anything to happen to the people who had helped her ( that certainly didn't help her situation with Gin now did it) and so on. Even if it wasn't the case of a traitor the idea of Gin having someone else kill Akai leaves too many things to chance.

[Commi-Ninja]

This is pure conjecture, but it may have been that Gin had Kir kill Akai thinking that Akai would sacrifice Kir to save himself.

[Dus]

It might very well have been one of several possible scenarios. It is obvious he suspected the two of collaborating and tried to force them to betray each other.

[Abs.]

Obviously the setup was meant to put them both in a bind (if they were in fact working together and hadn't anticipated such a scenario) because:

- If Akai doesn't go, Kir will die because she is a spy
- If Akai goes and Kir doesn't kill him, they'll know Kir was a spy
- If Kir kills Akai then she is not a spy, but Akai is dead

The entire trick behind this plot point was that Conan/Akai had already anticipated Gin/Anokata's plans since before Gin/Anokata even knew they were his/her/its plans.

[Shuusgirl]

Obviously the setup was meant to put them both in a bind (if they were in fact working together and hadn't anticipated such a scenario) because:

- If Akai doesn't go, Kir will die because she is a spy
- If Akai goes and Kir doesn't kill him, they'll know Kir was a spy
- If Kir kills Akai then she is not a spy, but Akai is dead

The entire trick behind this plot point was that Conan/Akai had already anticipated Gin/Anokata's plans since before Gin/Anokata even knew they were his/her/its plans.

I agree, this is the most likely reason for it.  I don't think (other than in the case of Sherry) that Gin seems the type to personally seek revenge. 

[Kaia]

I have read through the 30 pages. However, I became tired while reading. Hopefully I have not missed anything while I browsed through the thread.

I would like it if Akai returned, depending on the 'how'.

While reading, I have noticed that some of the members suggested that he used the BO spy's corpse, which he might have hidden in the trunk or back seat. This caused that switching the bodies becomes quite tricky.
However, would it also not be able to hide the body in the first row? At the passenger seat, there is some space for the legs when you sit. Judging the car windows, the first row has quite a lot of space while the back seat only suits for little children underneath ten or for people with very thin legs.
As Akai arrived from the other direction, the driver seat was facing the railing and he blocked the view into the passenger seat after he had exited. Including the dark, Gin would not be able to see the body there even after Akai had fallen on the seat. If the body was hidden there, then would it be more possible for the bodies to be switched?
However, I am not that well informed regarding cars. If there is enough space or not for an adult body to fit in that place, I do not know... Perhaps specialists can answer that?

Then there was a debate if Scar Akai is the true Akai or a disguised person. The reason why it cannot be him was, because the Scar Akai used his right hand to shoot, although his dominant hand is left.
Is it possible that Akai has hurt his left hand when he tried to escape and therefore cannot use it to shoot the gun at that time?

There was also the suspicion that Okiya might be Akai or Bourbon.
If I remember correctly, agent Camel mentioned that  Akai liked that whiskey. So... Okiya drinking Boubon sounds not very convincing for me that he is Bourbon just because of the alcohol as Akai could have drunken it too because he happened to like it.
An argument I have against the theory of Okiya = Akai is... Is Akai really that good in disguising and acting? After all, he is not Vermouth.

Also, I wonder, if Akai had survived, would Conan know that? It seems that Akai put some faith into him, but still regards him as a 'little boy' to me. It is quite questionable if he would tell Conan really everything. Is it perhaps possible that he someone planned an escape plan on his own without telling Conan and Kir about it?

[AICHAN]

Also, I wonder, if Akai had survived, would Conan know that? It seems that Akai put some faith into him, but still regards him as a 'little boy' to me. It is quite questionable if he would tell Conan really everything. Is it perhaps possible that he someone planned an escape plan on his own without telling Conan and Kir about it?

hmmm,considering that Conan was smiling when Eisuke said an FBI member died,I am pretty sure he knows what really happened to Akai...

[Kaia]

Also, I wonder, if Akai had survived, would Conan know that? It seems that Akai put some faith into him, but still regards him as a 'little boy' to me. It is quite questionable if he would tell Conan really everything. Is it perhaps possible that he someone planned an escape plan on his own without telling Conan and Kir about it?

hmmm,considering that Conan was smiling when Eisuke said an FBI member died,I am pretty sure he knows what really happened to Akai...

Could it be possible that Conan did not exactly know it, but suspected Akai's survival? The only clue he got is that Jodie returned a mobile phone with another serial number. Through that he can conclude that something might have happened to Akai. However, he is confident that Akai somehow got out of that mess on his own and is not worried about it.
Might this be possible too?

[Commi-Ninja]

It is possible, but give Conan's apparent surprise at the mention of Scar-Akai by the Detective Boys, it seems likelier that Conan and Akai planned something ahead of time that would allow Akai to pretend to be dead while remaining close by.

[User 4869]

If Conan is not in the plan. Conan did not know Akai was called out. Conan did not know he's in dangerous situation. Conan did not know Akai will return as a burnt body. Conan has no reason to check the serial number in the first place and almost impossible for him to deduct that change of phone mean Akai successfully escape his death.

Akai admit to Kir that Conan leave him and the FBI speechless, even thought he's a little boy, I think he trust Conan enough. And the reason Conan know is not because Akai tell him. But they plan it together. Otherwise Conan would not regard the plan as matter of lif and death to Akai since it's oly Camel and KIr will put thire life in danger.

[Shuusgirl]

If Conan is not in the plan. Conan did not know Akai was called out. Conan did not know he's in dangerous situation. Conan did not know Akai will return as a burnt body. Conan has no reason to check the serial number in the first place and almost impossible for him to deduct that change of phone mean Akai successfully escape his death.

Akai admit to Kir that Conan leave him and the FBI speechless, even thought he's a little boy, I think he trust Conan enough. And the reason Conan know is not because Akai tell him. But they plan it together. Otherwise Conan would not regard the plan as matter of lif and death to Akai since it's oly Camel and KIr will put thire life in danger.

That, or he knows that Conan's not just a little boy.  There's evidence that he at least knows that Conan's not.  Not that I think that Akai knows that he's Shinichi, but it seems that he knows Haibara's Shiho, and from there it's just a step to Conan's shrunk too.
So him planning to fake his death with Conan makes sense.  There are other times when he leaves situations up to Conan, like not worrying when Conan's kidnapped by Vermouth.

[Jd-]

If Conan is not in the plan. Conan did not know Akai was called out. Conan did not know he's in dangerous situation. Conan did not know Akai will return as a burnt body. Conan has no reason to check the serial number in the first place and almost impossible for him to deduct that change of phone mean Akai successfully escape his death.

Akai admit to Kir that Conan leave him and the FBI speechless, even thought he's a little boy, I think he trust Conan enough. And the reason Conan know is not because Akai tell him. But they plan it together. Otherwise Conan would not regard the plan as matter of lif and death to Akai since it's oly Camel and KIr will put thire life in danger.

That, or he knows that Conan's not just a little boy.  There's evidence that he at least knows that Conan's not.  Not that I think that Akai knows that he's Shinichi, but it seems that he knows Haibara's Shiho, and from there it's just a step to Conan's shrunk too.
So him planning to fake his death with Conan makes sense.  There are other times when he leaves situations up to Conan, like not worrying when Conan's kidnapped by Vermouth.

One of the best parts of the series in its modern incarnation is the dynamic between Conan & Akai. There's this unspoken trust between them that makes them quite a formidable duo. I'm really looking forward to the "reveal" later in this arc and the Okiakai/Conan explanation of everything... just hope it doesn't take us too long to get there.