episode 345 question

[Nanatsu no Ko]

Conan is as perceptive as Sherlock Holmes

[sstimson]

how did conan know that dr.araid is vermouth?

He did not!

He did know this: The Bo was trying to get him else where. He figured it must involve Ai. So he disguessed as Ai and then waited to see what would happen. Remember The Doc was not who he left with. It was Jodie. And also remember that Vermouth reveled herself with Conan saving a word.

[caribou]

I think probably Conan suspected Jodie, while Jodie was suspecting Dr. Araide, and this was what she confided to Conan. Therefore Conan made the (risky) deal that he would trust Jodie, if she could unmask Dr Araide's true identity.

[ranger]

lolz, I thought the sherlock holmes of the 21st century was just winging that shit.  From what I understand, he found his mom living in his house next door so he hatched a plan.  He got the invitation to go to the halloween party, so he called up Hattori to act as a double for him.  He used a mic and the voice changer to give the deduction (so it seems like hattori sounds like kudo). 

Conan with the help of his mom dressed up as Haibara, tranquilized haibara to let her rest/ not to interfere...and just see what would happen, then he would use his gadgets n shit to whoop some B.O. ass

Unfortunately, conan made the fatal mistake of tranquilizing haibara and leaving her out of the plan, which made her follow him

[kkslider5552000]

I'm assuming that it's because Kudo Yusaku is the deus ex machina character of this anime and deus ex machina is apparently hereditary.

before someone asks like everytime I use the term deus ex machina: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina

[ranger]

I'm assuming that it's because Kudo Yusaku is the deus ex machina character of this anime and deus ex machina is apparently hereditary.

before someone asks like everytime I use the term deus ex machina: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina

I know what deus ex machina means from an episode of LOST !  *proud look

okay, ill stop now lol

[TheBlind]

No, he knew and I just spent 30 minutes typing an awesome detail post proving that he knew and it got eaten by a horrible error message............they don't have the emoticon I need right now(involves fire,exploding,and insanity). Maybe one day I'll type it again....but it will never be as awesome.


-edit after post-
yeah NOW you want to post my message without an error message that destroys dreams.

[Akonyl]

No, he knew and I just spent 30 minutes typing an awesome detail post proving that he knew and it got eaten by a horrible error message............they don't have the emoticon I need right now(involves fire,exploding,and insanity). Maybe one day I'll type it again....but it will never be as awesome.


-edit after post-
yeah NOW you want to post my message without an error message that destroys dreams.

it's a good habit to ctrl-a ctrl-c before making a long forum post imo.

[Nyarl]

I don't know if Conan knew Araide was "Chris"/Vermouth until Jodie got her to reveal herself, but he was suspicious of Araide probably since the Bus Hijacking. He noted himself that Ai was skipping the school checkups.

There was also a pretty big hint when {!Araide} claimed to send his self-neglecting housekeeper, the one he hired specifically for him or his step-father to keep an eye on, ahead to Aomori.

[TheBlind]

-Original Post....redone-
Conan knew, shame on all of you for doubting his genius. Though Gosho didn't spell it out for us, he subtley showed us that Conan was solving this mystery like a jigsaw puzzle in his head.  The first piece of the puzzle was introduced in Discover Jodie, where Conan informs Agasa about Mouri's case files, while the last piece was in Party Showdown, where Vermouth's invitation makes all the other pieces fall together.

To assemble the whole puzzle from first piece to last from Conan's perspective would go as:

Spoiler:

• In Discover Jodie, Conan informs Agasa that he has recently become aware that all of Mouri's case files have been stolen and returned without any alterations. This gets him thinking of the possible usage someone would have with that information.
• Later in Hooligan Case, Conan receives the information on Chris & Sharon Vineyard he requested from Agasa and adds it to his knowledge of The Golden Apple case. He starts to wonder if the events of that case did infact happened like they appeared. "She'll be one tough enemy, that's for sure".
• In Haunted House, Conan is debating the death of the Silver Hair Killer with Ran. He no longer believes that it "could of been" a poor act of suicide but more likely a murder with the intent to cover up something but just can't figure out what.
• By Four Porches, Conan is certain that the recent events surrounding him & Haibara are not coincidences and revolve around the two people who just conveniently introduced themselves into his daily life, Dr. Araide & Jodie.  He begins to take precautions by lying to Agasa about Araide and keeping his distance from Jodie. He isn't certain about what is going on yet but knows the best plan is to keep his distance from both "culprits". Plan back fires as both Jodie & Araide end up at Agasa's house while he's not there.
• Bathroom Case, he's already sweep the house and found the listening devices which confirms his suspicions but he's at a disadvantage because he's not sure which one planted the device and what they would do if removed.
• Is disheartened that the situation reached this point on his watch and prepares for the worst by keeping guard with the bait of himself and Haibara in one easy location to attack in the middle of the night.
• Morning comes and he's gained ground because nothing happened and controls information by dictating the flow of the conversations inside the house and plans to continue doing so by staying over for a period of time. Has Agasa repeat where they are going with a false pretense and prepares himself for an ambush outside the house at their destination."Maybe we don't exist in this world anymore."
• False alarm at the destination. Tries to get an advantage by listening to the tapes only to realize they are only meant for one person.

Spoiler:

• Party Showdown Conan is still running the case in his head trying to fill in the missing pieces. Has no luck but is still going ahead with a basic plan of switching himself out for Haibara(to keep her safe) and pretends to be "sick" to remove "Conan" from the situation to make the switch possible. He's waiting on the reply of his mother to see if she can make the switch happen.
• Vermouth's invitation arrives and Conan realizes why the culprit has not made a move yet, it's because they only want one of them. The invitation is bait to separate him from Haibara long for the culprit to act out their plan and now all the pieces finally click together.
• In Conan's brain at a fast pace, Silver Hair Killer was killed to cover up that he had been replaced - only a person with both high acting ability and disguise ability could do so - Sharron Vineyard was in the area - He and Ran saved  the "killer" when logic states they shouldn't have - Chris replaces Sharron immediately after her death and appears more frequently thereafter - Chris was in Japan recently at a party - Pisco disposed of his purple handkerchief after committing a murder at this party but had it once again during questioning - Chris was one of the 7 that had the same purple handkerchief as Pisco according to the log - Chris is Vermouth - Mouri's case files were taken and returned - Araide is in those files, Jodie isn't. Vermouth is Dr. Araide. "Why haven't they come and killed you?!"
  "I don't have a reason but I at least know one of the causes"
• With the puzzle finally solved, Conan gets his smile & adapts his plan. He pretends to take the bait and acts like he is going in blind. Knocks out Haibara to let Vermouth know that she will be staying in the house(even against her will) and to stop her from leaking something he doesn't want Vermouth to know in her panic to stop him.
• Conan now plays along with the Professor, gets the reply from his mom that she can make his initial request possible and takes this chance to mail Heiji (as he knows Vermouth will try to preoccupy "Shinichi" at the party) and re-mail his mom about the Shinichi- Heiji switch and gets the "OK" on that as well and a big smile comes to his face as his plan is set. Now the only thing left to solve is who is Jodie really?...FBI? and at this same instance something at his house gets his attention.
• Conan takes Agasa down to Haibara's lab where there are no devices planted and informs him of the real plan(a plan with a weak pay off if you ask me..but I'm not the genius) and Haibara is eventually moved into this room to complete the switch. Conan now goes to check his house.
• Conan drops the bait on the listening devices, Vermouth bites. The link between him and Heiji is going well and everything seems on track until Jodie appears at the door. Conan tries to remove her from the plan but reconsiders as soon as he catches Jodie's lie about Araide and takes a risk. Now with the proof that Jodie's been listening and shadowing Dr. Araide, Conan gets in her car and deduces on the fly if she's FBI/CIA/Interpol.
• Conan can't fully trust Jodie yet but knows that she is leading Vermouth into a trap which works to his advantage, so he gives Jodie his triumph card in unmasking(he obviously never even hints about his other aces, him not being Conan & device under his shirt) Vermouth to test Jodie, she passes.

Spoiler:

• Conan taking part in this exhausting deduction battle makes him seem less careless(aka Stupid) for not taking into account that Haibara would do everything in her power to break free & find him(like Heiji deduced) or to actually confirm Ran would be where she said she was going to be.

Extremely annoying typing this up again but there it was, I strongly believe all the small pieces pointed that he knew and that he was in a mental showdown but if you find errors point them out because that is the most fun part.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

-Original Post....redone-
Conan knew, shame on all of you for doubting his genius. Though Gosho didn't spell it out for us, he subtley showed us that Conan was solving this mystery like a jigsaw puzzle in his head.  The first piece of the puzzle was introduced in Discover Jodie, where Conan informs Agasa about Mouri's case files, while the last piece was in Party Showdown, where Vermouth's invitation makes all the other pieces fall together.

To assemble the whole puzzle from first piece to last from Conan's perspective would go as:

• In Discover Jodie, Conan informs Agasa that he has recently become aware that all of Mouri's case files have been stolen and returned without any alterations. This gets him thinking of the possible usage someone would have with that information.
• Later in Hooligan Case, Conan receives the information on Chris & Sharon Vineyard he requested from Agasa and adds it to his knowledge of The Golden Apple case. He starts to wonder if the events of that case did infact happened like they appeared. "She'll be one tough enemy, that's for sure".
• In Haunted House, Conan is debating the death of the Silver Hair Killer with Ran. He no longer believes that it "could of been" a poor act of suicide but more likely a murder with the intent to cover up something but just can't figure out what.
• By Four Porches, Conan is certain that the recent events surrounding him & Haibara are not coincidences and revolve around the two people who just conveniently introduced themselves into his daily life, Dr. Araide & Jodie.  He begins to take precautions by lying to Agasa about Araide and keeping his distance from Jodie. He isn't certain about what is going on yet but knows the best plan is to keep his distance from both "culprits". Plan back fires as both Jodie & Araide end up at Agasa's house while he's not there.
• Bathroom Case, he's already sweep the house and found the listening devices which confirms his suspicions but he's at a disadvantage because he's not sure which one planted the device and what they would do if removed.
• Is disheartened that the situation reached this point on his watch and prepares for the worst by keeping guard with the bait of himself and Haibara in one easy location to attack in the middle of the night.
• Morning comes and he's gained ground because nothing happened and controls information by dictating the flow of the conversations inside the house and plans to continue doing so by staying over for a period of time. Has Agasa repeat where they are going with a false pretense and prepares himself for an ambush outside the house at their destination."Maybe we don't exist in this world anymore."
• False alarm at the destination. Tries to get an advantage by listening to the tapes only to realize they are only meant for one person.

• Party Showdown Conan is still running the case in his head trying to fill in the missing pieces. Has no luck but is still going ahead with a basic plan of switching himself out for Haibara(to keep her safe) and pretends to be "sick" to remove "Conan" from the situation to make the switch possible. He's waiting on the reply of his mother to see if she can make the switch happen.
• Vermouth's invitation arrives and Conan realizes why the culprit has not made a move yet, it's because they only want one of them. The invitation is bait to separate him from Haibara long for the culprit to act out their plan and now all the pieces finally click together.
• In Conan's brain at a fast pace, Silver Hair Killer was killed to cover up that he had been replaced - only a person with both high acting ability and disguise ability could do so - Sharron Vineyard was in the area - He and Ran saved  the "killer" when logic states they shouldn't have - Chris replaces Sharron immediately after her death and appears more frequently thereafter - Chris was in Japan recently at a party - Pisco disposed of his purple handkerchief after committing a murder at this party but had it once again during questioning - Chris was one of the 7 that had the same purple handkerchief as Pisco according to the log - Chris is Vermouth - Mouri's case files were taken and returned - Araide is in those files, Jodie isn't. Vermouth is Dr. Araide. "Why haven't they come and killed you?!"
  "I don't have a reason but I at least know one of the causes"
• With the puzzle finally solved, Conan gets his smile & adapts his plan. He pretends to take the bait and acts like he is going in blind. Knocks out Haibara to let Vermouth know that she will be staying in the house(even against her will) and to stop her from leaking something he doesn't want Vermouth to know in her panic to stop him.
• Conan now plays along with the Professor, gets the reply from his mom that she can make his initial request possible and takes this chance to mail Heiji (as he knows Vermouth will try to preoccupy "Shinichi" at the party) and re-mail his mom about the Shinichi- Heiji switch and gets the "OK" on that as well and a big smile comes to his face as his plan is set. Now the only thing left to solve is who is Jodie really?...FBI? and at this same instance something at his house gets his attention.
• Conan takes Agasa down to Haibara's lab where there are no devices planted and informs him of the real plan(a plan with a weak pay off if you ask me..but I'm not the genius) and Haibara is eventually moved into this room to complete the switch. Conan now goes to check his house.
• Conan drops the bait on the listening devices, Vermouth bites. The link between him and Heiji is going well and everything seems on track until Jodie appears at the door. Conan tries to remove her from the plan but reconsiders as soon as he catches Jodie's lie about Araide and takes a risk. Now with the proof that Jodie's been listening and shadowing Dr. Araide, Conan gets in her car and deduces on the fly if she's FBI/CIA/Interpol.
• Conan can't fully trust Jodie yet but knows that she is leading Vermouth into a trap which works to his advantage, so he gives Jodie his triumph card in unmasking(he obviously never even hints about his other aces, him not being Conan & device under his shirt) Vermouth to test Jodie, she passes.

• Conan taking part in this exhausting deduction battle makes him seem less careless(aka Stupid) for not taking into account that Haibara would do everything in her power to break free & find him(like Heiji deduced) or to actually confirm Ran would be where she said she was going to be.

Extremely annoying typing this up again but there it was, I strongly believe all the small pieces pointed that he knew and that he was in a mental showdown but if you find errors point them out because that is the most fun part.

Nice job! I'm saving a copy for myself if you don't mind.

[kkslider5552000]

can anyone please explain how did conan know that the killer didnt commit suicide?

and thanks guys

Well the reason I think of is "why would a killer who was just saved by nice people suddenly decide to kill himself just because people were looking for him."

Of course that's ironic in retrospect since 2 people have already committed suicide in order to avoid capture.

[TheBlind]

can anyone please explain how did conan know that the killer didnt commit suicide?

and thanks guys

After the information Conan received in the Hooligan Case, he goes back to check up on the events of the Golden Apple encounter to find clues. During his check of the police files he finds that there is no mention of the blood under the railing or the fingerprints on the railing which were all present when he left the killer. Normally this wouldn't be strange if the culprit is planning to escape but they committed "suicide" near the area which has Conan thinking cover up. It would be more likely that someone killed him and cleaned up his trail than him cleaning up evidence just to provide the police his dead body afterward. He debates this with Ran in Haunted House which was Gosho's next hint that Conan is solving this case in the background & of course he cuts it off before it gets to obvious.

He's bleeding and grabs a piece of the rail with his right hand.
http://www.onemanga.com/Detective_Conan/354/11/

Conan bouncing his finds off Ran to organize them
http://www.onemanga.com/Detective_Conan/355/03/

Would of provided the DCTP version but you can't link to them.

[kkslider5552000]

thats the lamest logic i have ever seen 

so how long have you been on the internet?

[ranger]

-Original Post....redone-
Conan knew, shame on all of you for doubting his genius. Though Gosho didn't spell it out for us, he subtley showed us that Conan was solving this mystery like a jigsaw puzzle in his head.  The first piece of the puzzle was introduced in Discover Jodie, where Conan informs Agasa about Mouri's case files, while the last piece was in Party Showdown, where Vermouth's invitation makes all the other pieces fall together.

To assemble the whole puzzle from first piece to last from Conan's perspective would go as:

Spoiler:

• In Discover Jodie, Conan informs Agasa that he has recently become aware that all of Mouri's case files have been stolen and returned without any alterations. This gets him thinking of the possible usage someone would have with that information.
• Later in Hooligan Case, Conan receives the information on Chris & Sharon Vineyard he requested from Agasa and adds it to his knowledge of The Golden Apple case. He starts to wonder if the events of that case did infact happened like they appeared. "She'll be one tough enemy, that's for sure".
• In Haunted House, Conan is debating the death of the Silver Hair Killer with Ran. He no longer believes that it "could of been" a poor act of suicide but more likely a murder with the intent to cover up something but just can't figure out what.
• By Four Porches, Conan is certain that the recent events surrounding him & Haibara are not coincidences and revolve around the two people who just conveniently introduced themselves into his daily life, Dr. Araide & Jodie.  He begins to take precautions by lying to Agasa about Araide and keeping his distance from Jodie. He isn't certain about what is going on yet but knows the best plan is to keep his distance from both "culprits". Plan back fires as both Jodie & Araide end up at Agasa's house while he's not there.
• Bathroom Case, he's already sweep the house and found the listening devices which confirms his suspicions but he's at a disadvantage because he's not sure which one planted the device and what they would do if removed.
• Is disheartened that the situation reached this point on his watch and prepares for the worst by keeping guard with the bait of himself and Haibara in one easy location to attack in the middle of the night.
• Morning comes and he's gained ground because nothing happened and controls information by dictating the flow of the conversations inside the house and plans to continue doing so by staying over for a period of time. Has Agasa repeat where they are going with a false pretense and prepares himself for an ambush outside the house at their destination."Maybe we don't exist in this world anymore."
• False alarm at the destination. Tries to get an advantage by listening to the tapes only to realize they are only meant for one person.

Spoiler:

• Party Showdown Conan is still running the case in his head trying to fill in the missing pieces. Has no luck but is still going ahead with a basic plan of switching himself out for Haibara(to keep her safe) and pretends to be "sick" to remove "Conan" from the situation to make the switch possible. He's waiting on the reply of his mother to see if she can make the switch happen.
• Vermouth's invitation arrives and Conan realizes why the culprit has not made a move yet, it's because they only want one of them. The invitation is bait to separate him from Haibara long for the culprit to act out their plan and now all the pieces finally click together.
• In Conan's brain at a fast pace, Silver Hair Killer was killed to cover up that he had been replaced - only a person with both high acting ability and disguise ability could do so - Sharron Vineyard was in the area - He and Ran saved  the "killer" when logic states they shouldn't have - Chris replaces Sharron immediately after her death and appears more frequently thereafter - Chris was in Japan recently at a party - Pisco disposed of his purple handkerchief after committing a murder at this party but had it once again during questioning - Chris was one of the 7 that had the same purple handkerchief as Pisco according to the log - Chris is Vermouth - Mouri's case files were taken and returned - Araide is in those files, Jodie isn't. Vermouth is Dr. Araide. "Why haven't they come and killed you?!"
  "I don't have a reason but I at least know one of the causes"
• With the puzzle finally solved, Conan gets his smile & adapts his plan. He pretends to take the bait and acts like he is going in blind. Knocks out Haibara to let Vermouth know that she will be staying in the house(even against her will) and to stop her from leaking something he doesn't want Vermouth to know in her panic to stop him.
• Conan now plays along with the Professor, gets the reply from his mom that she can make his initial request possible and takes this chance to mail Heiji (as he knows Vermouth will try to preoccupy "Shinichi" at the party) and re-mail his mom about the Shinichi- Heiji switch and gets the "OK" on that as well and a big smile comes to his face as his plan is set. Now the only thing left to solve is who is Jodie really?...FBI? and at this same instance something at his house gets his attention.
• Conan takes Agasa down to Haibara's lab where there are no devices planted and informs him of the real plan(a plan with a weak pay off if you ask me..but I'm not the genius) and Haibara is eventually moved into this room to complete the switch. Conan now goes to check his house.
• Conan drops the bait on the listening devices, Vermouth bites. The link between him and Heiji is going well and everything seems on track until Jodie appears at the door. Conan tries to remove her from the plan but reconsiders as soon as he catches Jodie's lie about Araide and takes a risk. Now with the proof that Jodie's been listening and shadowing Dr. Araide, Conan gets in her car and deduces on the fly if she's FBI/CIA/Interpol.
• Conan can't fully trust Jodie yet but knows that she is leading Vermouth into a trap which works to his advantage, so he gives Jodie his triumph card in unmasking(he obviously never even hints about his other aces, him not being Conan & device under his shirt) Vermouth to test Jodie, she passes.

Spoiler:

• Conan taking part in this exhausting deduction battle makes him seem less careless(aka Stupid) for not taking into account that Haibara would do everything in her power to break free & find him(like Heiji deduced) or to actually confirm Ran would be where she said she was going to be.

Extremely annoying typing this up again but there it was, I strongly believe all the small pieces pointed that he knew and that he was in a mental showdown but if you find errors point them out because that is the most fun part.

EPIC POST +1000000

sugoiiii theblind-kun, you sure have a keen eye for details