Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

[Conia]

Well, I don't really see a reason for him to do more abductions after his first victim. But if he wants to abduct more he should face the consequences - meaning the town will learn more roles once they get him. Though, when he is arrested the abducted ones remain unknown, just like before.
Of course that would require to make abduct optional.

Sounds fine.
And yes, it will be optional.

-Choose costumes upgraded. (Will choose 2 out of 3 costumes to use. Once he used them all, will respawn a night, then be able to choose 2 out 3 again and use them again as well)

A few questions:
When will the costumes be chosen for the first time? During the prep. phase or during night 1? If it is during night 1, it could be relevant for Irish, once he knows what the other BO have. But it would require to make Yukiko a role that other players can not disguise as. (Because of the "KID disguised as Yukiko disguised as Kir" issue)
Also. When will the costumes be "reloaded"? The way you wrote it it sounds like Irish/Yukiko won't be able to disguise during night 4 AND night 5.

During Prep.Phase.
Also, let's say Irish uses his first costume on Night 1 and his last costume on Night 2: He will respawn for Night 3, and during Day 3 he can choose costumes again.

First, Irish (and Yukiko) have to choose which costume to wear during the day so far. So since there was no day before night 1, they are always without a disguise at that point. (Irish will abduct someone at that point now.) So the earliest time for them to have used up their costumes would be night 3.
And I still didn't understand WHEN he will pick the second batch of costumes. During the Day? (Day 4 in most cases?)
If during the day: Will they be able to select a costume to wear right for the next night (Night 5), or will they have to wait yet another night before they can put it on during Day 5 to use the ability during Night 6?

Correct. And I missed a process of it, sorry, I'm still getting to understand this ability
In case Night 3 is the phase he uses the last disguise, he will pick the second batch on Day 3, won't do a thing on Night 4, and select his costume on Day 4 to use on Night 5. In other words, the Night he uses his last costume, the next day would be his "Prep.Phase".

Not sure how you plan to balance them. I guess by just making sure there are not 4+1 of them in the game again?
Also, Kleene did not suggest to give both to Tome, just to Kir and James. I think we had agreed that there is no need to improve Tome anymore.

As to Conia's take on the police:
I am fine with you using the linked post (Kleene's post), as even if it's a "buffed" police roster, the only one I see buffed is Yumi being given Investigate 3, which really isn't a big deal. What I do not agree with is giving Tome Special + Normal investigate in the same round.

Keep in mind, the change where Special Investigate can only be used on past actions was introduced into the game specifically to allow Tome entrance to the game, as otherwise he would overshadow James Black and Kir too much, as he has it along with Arrest. Even if he had the old special investigate, that's the equivalent of "Special OR Normal investigate" now, not both at the same time, which puts him back into "Let's laugh at James Black" territory.

I already said that Tome has the potential to be one of the most powerful police as-is, I don't really think he needs a buff at all yet.

I finally realised:

But if you think that special investigate isn't so strong anyway. then what's the problem of giving Kir and James 1 investigate and 1 s. investigate?

I wrote down Tome instead of Kir and James, my mistake
Tome stays only with S.Investigate.

Well, "half" sounds somehow decent, but I think it would be better if it was "exactly 2 reports" instead, like Kleene suggested. Of course that is only true as long as there are at least 2 FBI/CIA still in the game.
And it does not fix the "Akai investigates players doing something to himself" (which Akonyl described) completely. It would just depend on luck if James receives these results and can figure out who Akai is quickly, or if he does not receive them.
Or did you decide for giving him another ability now so he really will only get 1 (or half) of the reports?

Also, what about Kir?

Exactly 2 reports sounds good.
And the Akai part is still an issue Also James keep his S.Investigate.

About Kir: I already said she will be treated as one of James subordinates. I forgot by now why we wanted to add her normal investigation, and I'm not against it.

[Akonyl]

I finally realised:

But if you think that special investigate isn't so strong anyway. then what's the problem of giving Kir and James 1 investigate and 1 s. investigate?

I wrote down Tome instead of Kir and James, my mistake
Tome stays only with S.Investigate.

well then, that sounds a lot better.

[Abs.]

Honestly if I were Akai and investigated something a lot, it'd be something like "Conia kills Akonyl" "Schillok kills Akonyl" "pofa kills Akonyl" "PT kills Akonyl" "hopelessidiot kills Akonyl"

And not "Akonyl investigates Abs."

[Kleene Onigiri]

@DBs:
They are easier to prove than Kir (because of BO status) or Akai (with scent and investigate 5) and other roles. Because they have the "child" observe status.

But I know what you mean with "you'll be called Anokata" *cough*. But that's not just an issue for DBs. Since I was Haibara in round whatever, I was observed by Commi who was lovers with akonyl. I told them I'm haibara, but they didn't believe me 100%. I even followed one of them the next day, but they thought I'm anokata with vermy(Kazuha). [funny, there was really vermy(kazuha) around XD].
Commi wanted to observe me again, but was tricked and then killed afaik. (or I was killed)

So, even if you give someone a extra ability to prove DB. It will just work for this one player :V Other people would still say you could be anokata or whatnot XD
And distrust is also a part of the game :V

@special investigate:
So, Kir and James have Investigate 1 and Special investigate?
And tome just special investigate? XD
Just making sure

@FBI Leader:
Actually, I meant that they get exactly just 1 report :V Because you'd also put in the rule, that there has to be at least 1 "subordinate" (Akai, Kir, Jodie or Camel) in the game too. So there wouldn't be a problem with that, even if there are more subordinates in the game.

But exactly 2 is ok too I guess. Since even if there is just 1, you can just get 1 report then anyway XD

But I dislike the idea of not being able to investigate something that is done to you
Since I won't be able to check for
"Abs. slanders Kleene" or "Asb. steals from Kleene"... and if you notice you got stolen from, it's likely that it'll happen again the next night.
Same stuff when a healer heals you in order for you to investigate him. Since then the investigator won't die on you.

And if that rule would just apply for Akai, then it can be exploited. You especially use a ability on that person, so that he has to investigate it on him. If he says he can't do that, then you'd know/can guess that it's Akai.
If you use the rule for every investigator, you won't be able to catch a thief or someone that slanders you etc.

Also, you could easily see on the report, if Akai is BO or not (Vermouth disguised). Because BO usually looks for "Xcommando heals xcommando" while town looks out for "Xcommando slanders xcommando" and such stuff.


How about this:
James randomly get's the report from Kir, Jodie and/or Camel only.
But adding to that, if Akai successfully uses bone-break on someone, he'll get that report automatically too.
So it can happen, that he get's 2 reports + akais report on bone-breaking.
(or leave akai out completely )

[Schillok]

@Kleene:

I would like to avoid exceptions. So instead of "not including Akai, except for Bone-Breaking" (Which still does not do what it says. If I want to go and "bonebrake Parkur", I want to hurt him, and not xpon when he tries to snipe him. Though, I have no better name for that ability as well.) it would probably be better to not use the ability in the first place.

[Kleene Onigiri]

@Kleene:

I would like to avoid exceptions. So instead of "not including Akai, except for Bone-Breaking" (Which still does not do what it says. If I want to go and "bonebrake Parkur", I want to hurt him, and not xpon when he tries to snipe him. Though, I have no better name for that ability as well.) it would probably be better to not use the ability in the first place.

So no FBI Leader (for now). You could exclude akai with the reason: "he's secretive and stuff" XD But yeah, exceptions are always meh. Tho we already have some anyway. Since vermouth can't arrest someone from blamed stuff and so one. But avoiding exceptions is good in general.

well. I didn't want to use it on the sniper. Because if it works, Akai would know who the sniper is then :V Tho it could be changed into that way, that you have to choose the sniper instead of the snipers target to work it.
But then again, akai was more like protecting the target and waiting for the snipers to arrive usually instead of hunting them personally (in the story)

[Abs.]

The issue with Bone Breaking is that Schillok doesn't want to break Parkur's bones.  The name is incongruous to the action in that respect.

[Akonyl]

well. I didn't want to use it on the sniper. Because if it works, Akai would know who the sniper is then :V Tho it could be changed into that way, that you have to choose the sniper instead of the snipers target to work it.
But then again, akai was more like protecting the target and waiting for the snipers to arrive usually instead of hunting them personally (in the story)

to use it on the sniper, you can just have it act like a discombobulate that only works on snipers, and then leave out the part about an injured person being revealed in the phase change post.

[Commi-Ninja]

Why don't you say something like "Akai defends ___"?

So it would be called Defend instead.

[Schillok]

Why don't you say something like "Akai defends ___"?

So it would be called Defend instead.

Better. I had the word "sharpshooting" in mind, but Defend sounds even better. So beware everyone... new Akai suggestion! (To give him only one ability again...)


Akai:
Day/Night Ability: Vengeance
Night Abilty: Sharpshoot/Protect

So he keeps Vengence, like he has right now. (It's passive, so no objection from my side.)

Sharpshoot/Protect

Characters with that Ability: Akai
- Can not be covered

- During each night Akai can choose another player to protect/sharpshoot
- If any player attacks that player, the killing will fail and the attacker will be injured
- Works against Snipe. Does not prevent Bribe
- However, the targeted player will get discombobulated AND frightened (all of his actions fail and he can't use abilities or vote the next day)


So, Akai uses his sniping skills to keep another player save, even from snipers. However, his presence will make the target so nervous, that it can't do anything. (If he tried to defend a BO that BO will also be unable to do anything.)

We could make it the same investigation as "protect". Also, there might be some issues with Vermouth disguising as Akai since she would suddenly become a Vodka+Pisco in one role. With "no BO" as investigation result and an explanation for her scent...
But obviously he will no longer have investigate.

[Akonyl]

so in effect he becomes a protector who only injures the attacker (which is inferior imo to learning who they are), with the only plus really being that it's effective against sniping, at the cost of killing all the actions of the person he's protecting?

Combined with the scent and the fact that Akai has never actually gotten a BO with vengeance, that just seems bad.

[Schillok]

so in effect he becomes a protector who only injures the attacker (which is inferior imo to learning who they are), with the only plus really being that it's effective against sniping, at the cost of killing all the actions of the person he's protecting?

Combined with the scent and the fact that Akai has never actually gotten a BO with vengeance, that just seems bad.

Well, me might never have gotten a BO yet, but I also can't remember a game where his smell killed him so I think that should be about even. And with the change that he now injures his attacker when HE is killed during the night vengence is already stronger than before. And should be useful in the future.

But no, he is not just a better protector/healer. He is also a better trickster. Because just the same you could use his ability offensively against the BO to disable one of their members and stop him voting.

So if he uses his ability on a townie: Yes, it means that townie won't be able to do anything for 2 phases, except arresting. But he won't also be killed.
If he uses his ability on a BO: This would mean the criminal could not kill that BO. But the BO would also fail his action (possibly the night killing) and not be able to vote.

[Akonyl]

Mm, that's true about using it on a BO, but then that's putting Eisuke out of a job (as the people you discombob aren't generally people you trust the vote of anyway) which I'm not sure I like.

Though, perhaps the smell/vengeance townie-murdering will balance that? *shrug*

[Kleene Onigiri]

I don't like it. It's uneffective.
Since you would want to protect a role that is "effective", let's say Haibara. So that she won't get sniped of by the BO. But then, when you protect her, you also frighten her, which makes her useless. So, why protecting her in the first place?

You protect a player mainly so that he can use his abilities and can vote against the BO. But with this kind of protection, the protection is making more harm than good.

also, I'm not going around and change a ability simply because the name isn't the best chosen. Like I'm not changing the name of Black suitcase etc.
Also, bone-break sounds awesome! No objections allowed here!

[Abs.]

Maybe just "Bone" :V