Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

[Conia]

Nakamori & Jirokichi:
3 investigations seem okay for me, so I'm not changing him. About Jirokichi: Unless there are new suggestions for him, I'm leaving him out of this Round.

Deduction/Reveal culprit:
I've decided to leave the criminals out of the game, so nothing more to worry about the lists.

VoR:
Eri and Kobayashi will keep VoR, but there should be a special condition to prevent it from working, specially for Day 1.

Kleene's suggestions to tasks:
Remember that I said it will involve players resolving the tasks, characters doesn't apply to them Though upon resolving them, you may: Be able to use again a one-time action, recover from injury, travelling will take one less phase for completion, etc. Remember, for gaining big rewards, you'll have to resolve the hard tasks, since I've decided to give a difficulty option for every task that allows it.

APTX:
They're fine, no changes needed.

Irish and Yukiko:
I'll keep thinking about them!

Quick mention to be added to Kid:

If Kid is erased you learn his disguise.

Also can we please make a rule to make the GM not say anything game wise. As it could make people change their actions and feelings\ext.

Don't like it, since the idea of erasing is specifically that the town won't be 100% of the erased role, which is the "advantage" that gives you getting killed

In my case, I'll not be posting hints, players will earn them by completing tasks.

[Yurikochan]

If Kid is erased you learn his disguise.

Only the one who kills him, though (so BO or Natsuki). It wouldn't make sense for the town to learn about the disguise.

Thank you, PT.

Quick mention to be added to Kid:

If Kid is erased you learn his disguise.

How exactly would this work?  It'd be the same as him not being erased (because once you know the disguise it could have only been either Kid or Vermouth).

Unless you mean the eraser learns his disguise.

Well it was a disagreement in the BO that we only learned that Kid was erased and not who he was disguised as, when the argument was if he died (and Natsuki/the eraser) killed him we weren't told the disguise since it's not in the rules.

Also can we please make a rule to make the GM not say anything game wise. As it could make people change their actions and feelings\ext.

^

Except that the GM should already know better anyway T_T

That was my greatest wish for the GM.

Quick mention to be added to Kid:

If Kid is erased you learn his disguise.

Also can we please make a rule to make the GM not say anything game wise. As it could make people change their actions and feelings\ext.

Don't like it, since the idea of erasing is specifically that the town won't be 100% of the erased role, which is the "advantage" that gives you getting killed

In my case, I'll not be posting hints, players will earn them by completing tasks.

It was my fault for not being more specific. ^^

[Abs.]

Agreed that whoever erased him should get to know exactly who they erased.

In the case the criminal eraser erases him, the BO would still be clueless

[PT]

Unless you mean the eraser learns his disguise.

I'm pretty sure she means the eraser learns the disguise, because that issue came up this round when we killed Kid and DT didn't want to tell us the disguise.

[Akonyl]

I agree with the Kid thing as well :V

[Kleene Onigiri]

Why shouldn't the BO be able to poison someone as more than one role in a day? In some cases (most, I would say) it guarantees the kill, but it always forces the BO to lose at least one capsule. So it's their decision to make on whether it's worth it to get rid of that player.

I think I changed it so that you can't do that O.o"
Like, Vodka and Gin can't both use APTX on Akonyl as Genta and Mitsuhiko.
Same with using 2 APTX to aptx akonyl and PT as Genta.

Maybe it wasn't implemented. But back then people agreed to that :V

Eri:
Eri got Voice of Reason because she could only Lawsuit for a long time. Now that she has a unique, useful and repeatable ability she should lose the VoR again. This should help to make the early lynchings more meaningful again (When I invented VoR I thought Eri would use it to keep herself alive since she could not prove herself.)... and allow us to give VoR to another character if we feel it fits and that role lacks something without having 2-3 VoR in the game regularly.  

The again, once VoR is used, the BO knows Kobayashi is around too D:

It was the same for Eri before Kobayashi-sensei got introduced in round 14.
And it might finally give her a reason to think if she wants to use that ability if she is not directly threatened by the lynching.

Not quite the same. Since Eri didn't have anything else than the releasing from Prison ability. While Kobayashi has first aid which can be investigated easily.
But true :V (so we'll never see VoR again :x)

Irish:
Well, the might be most subjective, since it was my role the last game. But I felt I was the weakest BO out there.
His major advantage is that he relies less on luck to get useful disguises than Vermouth, since he can choose out of 5 possible roles. But that is pretty much it.
I suggest we give him back his "Abduction" that he had before. This should not influence him much, fits him perfectly (since this is what he did in Movie 13) and makes him a little bit more useful for the BO.

So abduct and disguising?

I'm for giving both irish and yukiko 1 more disguise. So that they have 4 altogether. They can choose out from 6 disguises then.
Last round lasted till Day 7. And it usually goes till night 5 - day 7~. So if they survive long enough, both would get "useless" after night 4.

Mhh, 3 makes the players think a bit about how and when to use their abilities. They also have to decide if they really want to use one disguise each day or maybe keep one for a bit later. 4 might be... well, no idea.
On the other hand it might help them since it gives them more choices and maybe a bit more useful compared to Vermouth and KID then they are now.

I think 4 wouldn't be too much. You'd still need to think about when you use which role and stuff. And the abducting will just improve Irish. Yukiko will still have just 3 and also has no allies to begin with that she can trust. If she get's tricked once, the chance to find a ally will lessen even more :V

BTW. is xpons "I'll tell you 3 roles not in the game" rule still in the game?
Because I suggested to change abduct a bit. That Irish can abduct every uneven number of nights (Night 1, 3, 5...) instead just one at night 1. I prefer that over 1 time abduct on night 1.

And weakest BO. I never played as BO with sherry in the game. But I think she's not so strong ability wise D:

Well, I never player as Sherry (or with Sherry while I was BO) either - but right now she is 2 additional APTX. Well, at least as long as she stays alive. Also her teenager status (I still think I remember her saying she was 20+) might be useful when she gets observed. And of course the BO knows for sure that there is no Haibara on the town side.
You said it later that APTX has a huge impact on the game, but right now Sherry increases the number of APTX by 67% - which the BO does not have if they don't have her in their game.

Sherry is 18. She joked around that she's old first (30+ or something). But she said she's 18 somewhere. While Shinichi is 17.
Well, she's the only character that was in the BO where you can say that she could still count as a teenager. Everyone else is definitely an adult so far. (besides maybe that generic dude or how he's called :V)

But that's why I said ability wise Since Anokata can also be observed as an adult/teenager/child.

But yeah, she has more APTX. But she can't figure out a role just based on her own abilities. (in case she is one of the only BO's left and stuff)

Or, what I also thought about, doing it with "tasks". Since there are one time using abilities or some statuses that don't go away anyway, like VoR or a successful charm usage or a successful protection from ran, or lawsuit or getting injured. SO for those people, in order to be able to use VoR again for example, they need to fulfill a certain task. Or when Ran get's injured. She, for example, needs to find araide. So that she can loose the "injured" status again.
Same for BO then. If they loose all 3 APTX, they get a task they have to fulfill in order to get 1 APTX again. Or once they have just 1 APTX left, they will be given that task already or something.

But conia is planing something with tasks :V I hope I didn't said something wrong with that XD

Well, but tasks require the GM to actually use them. Not every GM will have tasks to allow players doing things they normally wouldn't be able to.
So it might work perfectly this game. But during the next game when there are no tasks anymore it might matter again.

I meant it more like a rule. So, once the BO just has 1 APTX left, the BO will give them a fixed task. Or a tasks from a list of task available that were created before.
Not that the GM has to think about one during the game then.

Something like:
If anokata and Gin are in the game, Gin has to slander Anokata. (or the same with Vermouth)
If Akemi is in the game, she has to steal from one of her BO buddies.
If the criminal is still alive, kill/arrest/lynch him/her.

Something like that :V

@Okiya
He need s a new ability: Cooking

I thought you were worried about making him similar to Bourbon?

Well, suggestion:



Cooking (Day Action):
Roles with that Ability: Okiya, Ran
- The character will make a dish of his/her choice during the day
- It has absolutely no influence on the game
- Can be frightened

Great XD

Well, Bourbon would get

Hate on Akai (Day Action)
Roles with that Ability: Bourbon, Gin?
- Crime
- The GM will post in the phase change, that someone demolished something out of anger
- Has no influence on the game
- Can be frightened

Also, day abilities can't get investigated, so it's OK :x


@akonyl

Irish/Yukiko
I agree that they might need more costumes, but instead of giving them one more, I suggest that Choose Costumes be changed to "The person may choose 2 out of 3 costumes", and be changed from a Prep Phase ability to one they use automatically on any night phase when they're out of costumes. So, Irish would have a costume on Night 2, Night 3, and then on Day 3 he'd have no costumes to change into, so on Night 4 he'd be given a new Choose Costumes list, etc etc. So basically, they'd be disguised every 2 of 3 nights.

Or perhaps if this is seen as too strong, just give them one of two costumes, and have them disguised every other night

I like that idea :V

APTX:
I don't see any problem with the APTX as it is now, it's been this way for a few games and the BO have done well with it. Part of the reason it was changed to this, iirc, is that BO weren't really supposed to just "test out" APTX on people like they would sometimes when they had 7 or so. The point of APTX, after all, was to stop the mega-alliances that happened in the early games where everyone just listed their roles out in the open, in which case you have a pretty good idea of who they are.


As for double-poisonings, it's admittedly a bit silly imo, but in my 4 straight rounds as BO I'm pretty sure we ended the round that way more than once so I can't necessarily say I'm against it.

It gives the BO a huge advantage at the end of the game. When they just have to kill some more and know that someone can heal or observe etc., but don't have much more info on them.

Yusaku:
My suggestion would be that Yusaku can choose what to deduce: So he can just Deduce (which gives him a list of 5 for each killing), or specifically Deduce the BO killing and/or the criminal killing and/or sherry's killing. The positive side to choosing one or two lists would be that if you only cared about finding the BO culprits, you could get your ability back faster, but the downside would be of course that you'd get less info.

Oh right, sherry is also there now :V

Well, if you get 3 list with 5 names. Then almost everyone will be a suspect XD
Character wise it sounds a bit strange :V
Inspector: There are  3 victims! Help us yuusaku
Yuusaku: Nooo~ I just want the female victim. I don't care who killed the males :3


@nakamori and Yumi and Eri:
Well. I'm for the investigation 2. Because the pinching is similar to a investigation Nothing to do with yumi
Well. We can change yumi back to the way she was with her pairing choosing :V Either way is OK.

Otherwise I don't know if the auto-arrest and VoR should be kept or not :V



Question @APTX:
I changed it so the vote wouldn't count. What do you think about that? I don't remember why I changed it anymore :V lol
Should we change it back or keep it like that? Since it can also backfire on the BO (remember mini mafia where I almost got lynched because of a APTXing :V)


@erasing:
Just the one doing the erasing should get all info anyway :V  Not the whole BO or other allies like lovers D:
And yeah, also agree with the disguises from KID.
But what about yukiko? Also her disguises? Or disguises she already used?

[PT]

I think I changed it so that you can't do that O.o"
Like, Vodka and Gin can't both use APTX on Akonyl as Genta and Mitsuhiko.
Same with using 2 APTX to aptx akonyl and PT as Genta.

Maybe it wasn't implemented. But back then people agreed to that :V

It was discussed but never implemented because there's already a limit on the APTX anyway. And I still don't see the problem with it, since the BO is making a sacrifice to do it.

@erasing:
Just the one doing the erasing should get all info anyway :V  Not the whole BO or other allies like lovers D:

Yeah, that's what I meant anyway - that the one doing the erasing should learn the disguise (though I think I worded it badly originally), not the whole BO (if the BO killed that person) unless the other person wants to tell everyone.

[Kleene Onigiri]

I think I changed it so that you can't do that O.o"
Like, Vodka and Gin can't both use APTX on Akonyl as Genta and Mitsuhiko.
Same with using 2 APTX to aptx akonyl and PT as Genta.

Maybe it wasn't implemented. But back then people agreed to that :V

It was discussed but never implemented because there's already a limit on the APTX anyway. And I still don't see the problem with it, since the BO is making a sacrifice to do it.

Because it gives them a huge advantage at the end of the game.

Like they just need 2 more kills to win. So they throw all APTX on one player and kill someone else the next night. They don't have to worry about loosing the APTX, since it's the end of the game anyway.

[Eve]

Because it gives them a huge advantage at the end of the game.

Like they just need 2 more kills to win. So they throw all APTX on one player and kill someone else the next night. They don't have to worry about loosing the APTX, since it's the end of the game anyway.

I agree with Kleene here, and I think it was Kleene who suggested it which was why I was playing with that thought the whole time

[PT]

Because it gives them a huge advantage at the end of the game.

Like they just need 2 more kills to win. So they throw all APTX on one player and kill someone else the next night. They don't have to worry about loosing the APTX, since it's the end of the game anyway.

But that's if they even have any left at the end of the round. It really depends on how the BO plays, though. In that case it comes down to strategy throughout the entire game, so I still don't really see a problem with it. If the BO is careful enough with their poisons to still have 2-3 left in the end, then why not let them throw it all at the same person to secure a win?

[pofa]

I like the idea of reducing Nakamori's investigations to 2, since I still think having three abilities that can all be done at once, one of which is like a super-investigation already, is a little too strong. (I feel a little the same way about Satou's detention, but it's still weaker than face pinch since it gives her no info.) And like someone else said, it would keep Yumi safer if she weren't the only role with 2 investigations.

Also, was the bomber notified of how many policemen were in the game this round?

[xpon]

everyone just listed their roles out in the open, in which case you have a pretty good idea of who they are.

---

well... as a townie.. i say double poisoning is not fair!

not only the townie will die for sure.. his / her vote is also not counted

try to play as townie so you can feel the hurt feeling getting 100% aptx

[PT]

That also happens on a single poisoning, if the BO gets the right role, though.

[xpon]

i mean in the case of double aptx!!..

if the BO can get the role because of using ability like observe or stealing then that is fair.. but aptx 2 roles is silly!

well that is just my personal though, you are the one who will play mafia in the future, so decide it for your self.. but i just want to say that it is not fair

[Schillok]

i mean in the case of double aptx!!..

if the BO can get the role because of using ability like observe or stealing then that is fair.. but aptx 2 roles is silly!

well that is just my personal though, you are the one who will play mafia in the future, so decide it for your self.. but i just want to say that it is not fair

But double poisoning will only happen if they did that already. Usually it is done after everything had be checked, but there are still 2 possible roles and it would be night impossible to figure out which it is.
(Like if it is Yumi VS Satô. Unless you get lucky with your steal, they have too many items in common to make stealing feasible. Takagi VS Chiba is even worse, since there is no way to differentiate between the two unless the BO finds out that one of them is not in the game.)

And again: Even if it was forbidden, the townie would still die - it is just that it would be the next night instead. The way it is now the BO would at least waste an APTX for sure.
(And I must say that it is usually a better idea to just poison once and see if they can safe an APTX. The "fast way" is more of a sign of desperation, when the BO HAS to get rid of a certain townie because it has become way to dangerous to allow him/her life any longer.)