Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

[pofa]

I actually agree with Akonyl's edit, even though this round, the bomber didn't seem to really be going for police.

But yeah, it's actually in the bomber's interest to work with the BO instead of against, in order to draw out the game long enough to get all the police. Though if the number of BO is reduced, maybe the number of defensive town roles or police should be capped too, since the BO and bomber won't be in contact from the beginning.

[Akonyl]

I actually agree with Akonyl's edit, even though this round, the bomber didn't seem to really be going for police.

But yeah, it's actually in the bomber's interest to work with the BO instead of against, in order to draw out the game long enough to get all the police. Though if the number of BO is reduced, maybe the number of defensive town roles or police should be capped too, since the BO and bomber won't be in contact from the beginning.

she may have figured that you'd take care of them anyway, who knows. Either way, the police bomber has no incentive to kill BO over townies, unless the BO is dominating the game.

as for role-capping, the only problem with that is that of course, then there'll be more other roles

and tbh, in a normal game, I'd say police aren't really all that scary anyway compared to an interrogator, unless it's one of the inspectors.

[Conia]

I suggest this topic is treated before getting into character discussions again

[Schillok]

Well, time to give my own input I think:

*starts*

I vote that Nakamori loses the auto-arrest if his pinch is successful. It's like house-search, only with no penalty for being wrong. (Giving him that, investigate, and normal arrest is a bit much).

I was actually going to state that this should happen as well, but for the exact opposite reason. I feel it actually hinders Nakamori a little to have the pinch auto-arrest because it forces him to be a little more careful in indiscriminate pinching, because if he randomly pinches Kid, he'll be unable to get him out of prison for the most part.

I don't think it's comaprable to house-search though, as it only works for a single crime.

Well, I agree that the auto-arrest hinders Nakamamori so he can't just pinch everyone indiscriminately. But I think that is a good thing.
I mean, I am fine with having KID work together with the Meitanteis, with the Detective Boys, the Teenaged girls (and Eisuke), even with the FBI if he wants. But he really should stay away from the police, which is why we had the rule introduced that he would be arrested if the police figured out his identity. (That rule alone explains the auto-arrest: If KID is found, then he should be arrested immediately.)
Also: It is more of interest for Vermouth to try to sneak in and build up connections with all kind of townies - especially police. And face-pinching is very effective in finding her. KID on the other hand is supposed to stay more at a distance and only contact the ones that he made sure don't pose a danger to him (since he does not know who is a townie anyway).

So I would really like to keep auto-arrest the way he is.
Actually I had another suggestion: Maybe we should reduce the number of his investigates to 2? That way Yumi wouldn't be all alone with that number, and face-pinching works like a super-powerful investigation for "X disguises as Y" anyway, effectively replacing one of his normal investigations. He is also not part of the homicide department so his investigation skills should be a bit lower since he is less trained for that task and more for finding KID.
He already has a powerful ability that he could even use to "prove himself" (since the pinched victim will get a PM) and he is the first in contact with Jirokichi, allowing for a fast formation of alliances if things go according to their plans. 

Oh, and while I'm sure some may take this as me complainin as we lost, I think with the addition of criminals, the amount of BO should be reduced depending on who's in the game, considering we got rid of over 1 BO a phase and hardly got poisoned and still lost. 

Well, it was an unique game. Because on the other hand the town gave up on the first two lynching phases and the BO managed to make them lynch 3 townies, even late in the game.
But yeah, the number of BO should be considered, depending on whether a criminal (and which criminal) is in the game. I have to agree that I think the number was too high last game, it should have worked more fair with one less. You had to consider that we had a new, unexperienced member who got herself exposed right from the start - which kinda compensated for the higher BO count but - in case she had managed to stay undetected - would have made the imbalance even worse.

Though, the final decision should be with the GM. The slightly higher number of BO might also have been a good idea considering the insane number of defensive town roles (Ran, Makoto, Kobayashi, Araide, Agasa, lovers) while the BO had no sniper to break through protections except the one-time bribe from Pisco.
But otherwise I agree in lowering the number of BOs in future games with The Bomber.

If the criminal is Natsuki, the 1/3-1 that tommy used should be fine, however if the criminal is Okuda (with a townie target) or the Bomber, there should probably be one less BO, as they'll always be targeting townies and that's sort of like free APTXes. In the event of Okuda with a BO target, not all that certain how he should be handled because generally, once a BO is found he'll be gone pretty quickly anyway.

Well, on the other hand The Bomber is also dangerous for the BO in the beginning, since he will hunt for police, which are all adults. And most of the BO are adults as well, so chances are high that he kills one of them after he observed them. So he might play out in favor of the town, especially if they manage to get rid of him early enough before he starts working with the BO. (Which is a nice side-effect, making the town more motivated to catch the criminal instead of only focusing on the BO.)
Okuda has less reasons to work together with the BO, since he is out for a specific target and the BO does not know if it might be one of them. Also, he is likely to kill a BO "by accident" since BOs have a wide variety of items so if he finds one that matches with his query, he might kill the BO during the next night.

Again: It is probably a good idea to reduce the number of BOs in case a criminal is in the game, especially if that criminal mainly targets townies. The GM has to consider that when deciding about the roles. On the other hand the GM should not be afraid to just try something out in case there is no data available and the prediction how it might play out are hard. In the worst case we will have learned an important lesson after the game is over and will consider the outcome in future games.



Okay, now to the things I wanted to mention myself:

Nakamori:
Like I said, I think we might reduce the number of his investigations to 2, since face-pinching more than compensates for it.


Deduce/Spy:
Last game Kleene had her own name on the deduce list. This should not happen.
For both Deduce and for Spy, the own name of the player and the names of his/her allies (other BO, lovers, BFF) should not appear in the list. The only exception should be... well, if that ally really was the killer for the night - which should be no surprise unless it is the unlikely constellation of Sonoko befriending Vermouth disguised as Okiya or Yusaku. (In that case the BO has to deal with the situation, somehow. Vodka would probably love to help. And Vermouth might encourage Sonoko not to use her ability if she doesn't want her to use it. And in the worst case there is always the APTX).


Eri:
Eri got Voice of Reason because she could only Lawsuit for a long time. Now that she has a unique, useful and repeatable ability she should lose the VoR again. This should help to make the early lynchings more meaningful again (When I invented VoR I thought Eri would use it to keep herself alive since she could not prove herself.)... and allow us to give VoR to another character if we feel it fits and that role lacks something without having 2-3 VoR in the game regularly. 


Irish:
Well, the might be most subjective, since it was my role the last game. But I felt I was the weakest BO out there.
His major advantage is that he relies less on luck to get useful disguises than Vermouth, since he can choose out of 5 possible roles. But that is pretty much it.
I suggest we give him back his "Abduction" that he had before. This should not influence him much, fits him perfectly (since this is what he did in Movie 13) and makes him a little bit more useful for the BO.


APTX:
Not sure if we should make changes here. I disliked how we were down to 1 APTX so quickly and had to rely on keeping that last one until the end of the game to stand a chance.
Well, my suggestion is the same like I made a few games ago: Backup-APTX.
For every 10-20 townies in the game (so the BO should usually get 1 or 2 Backup-APTX with our current game size), the BO gets one Backup-APTX. Once the BO had used up ALL of their previously given 3 APTX, they will be allowed to used one Backup-APTX instead (if they have a second backup-APTX, they will not be able to use it until they fail another poisoning).
This should allow the BO to be a bit more... risky with their APTX, since right now each one is so valuable that poisoning on a good suspicion is still to risky and the BO usually has to make 100% sure they are not wrong. Usually the BO loses when she has no APTX left, so as the game gets bigger and more townies are around it might be a good idea to give them another chance once they fail their first 3 capsules.

We might also in-cooperate Sherry with this new suggestion. Right now she has 2 capsules of APTX all for herself to try and poison towies (IIRC). We could change that so she only has 1 for herself and will start using the back-up APTXs afterwards. I think it helps to reduce the "need to burn through her APTX" before she gets exposed, still gives her and the BO a free APTX as long as she is alive and does not risk the starting APTX - which allow for multiple poisonings a day.

[Kleene Onigiri]

Nakamori:
Like I said, I think we might reduce the number of his investigations to 2, since face-pinching more than compensates for it.

I agree with giving Nakamori 2 investigations instead of 3. Since the pinching is even a bit better than "X disguises as Y". Since you don't need to know who he's disguised as.
@auto-arrest: Well, Nakamoris aim is to catch KID actually :V So role wise, arresting someone for being disguised should be like that.
Then again, KID is always running away too XD

Well, I think either way has advantages and disadvantages.
Since if you auto-arrest, you can't know if you got KID or vemouth. Or even irish or Yukiko.

Without auto-arrest, you need to check that person if he/she is town or BO. KID has the stealing advantage. Tho you can also try to use black suitcase in that case to save vermouth from being arrested manually by nakamori.
Getting arrested will also get delayed by some phases in favour for the BO.

Deduce/Spy:
Last game Kleene had her own name on the deduce list. This should not happen.
For both Deduce and for Spy, the own name of the player and the names of his/her allies (other BO, lovers, BFF) should not appear in the list. The only exception should be... well, if that ally really was the killer for the night - which should be no surprise unless it is the unlikely constellation of Sonoko befriending Vermouth disguised as Okiya or Yusaku. (In that case the BO has to deal with the situation, somehow. Vodka would probably love to help. And Vermouth might encourage Sonoko not to use her ability if she doesn't want her to use it. And in the worst case there is always the APTX).

I agree with that.

There was also the question, what to do with the criminal also killing.

Version 1 (intended to use that first by DT):
You get one list with 6 names with both criminals in that list.

Problem I saw as Yuusaku was, that I wouldn't know which criminal killed which victim. And that is necessary for "Reveal Culprit".
Since even if I knew that for example, schillok is the criminal(Bomber), I would still need to guess which victim it was (in case it's not obvious which victim was killed by who. So both victims were killed in a normal way so fat, without erasing).

But with 1 list, clearing that list could be faster. Especially when suspects from that list were also killed or arrested.


Version 2:
You get 2 lists with 5 names.
You'll also get to know which list is for which victim. So List 1 was for the victim A while List 2 ist for victim B. But you shouldn't get to know which one was done by the criminal and which was done by the BO (IMO, tho last round I got to know that )

This way, Yuusaku would have it easier to use "Reveal Culprit". But he has more names to clear. Since you need to find both killers before you're allowed to use deduct again. This would also delay deduction a bit. Since you'd usually use deduct on Night 1, meaning you'd just get a BO kilelr for sure, since criminals can't kill on night 1. After you got that 1 BO, you'd go for the next one. Which could get too fast (since there are less and less people around too)

Names should be allowed to repeat in the list. Tho not more than 1 or 2 names :V

Eri:
Eri got Voice of Reason because she could only Lawsuit for a long time. Now that she has a unique, useful and repeatable ability she should lose the VoR again. This should help to make the early lynchings more meaningful again (When I invented VoR I thought Eri would use it to keep herself alive since she could not prove herself.)... and allow us to give VoR to another character if we feel it fits and that role lacks something without having 2-3 VoR in the game regularly. 

The again, once VoR is used, the BO knows Kobayashi is around too D:

Irish:
Well, the might be most subjective, since it was my role the last game. But I felt I was the weakest BO out there.
His major advantage is that he relies less on luck to get useful disguises than Vermouth, since he can choose out of 5 possible roles. But that is pretty much it.
I suggest we give him back his "Abduction" that he had before. This should not influence him much, fits him perfectly (since this is what he did in Movie 13) and makes him a little bit more useful for the BO.

So abduct and disguising?

I'm for giving both irish and yukiko 1 more disguise. So that they have 4 altogether. They can choose out from 6 disguises then.
Last round lasted till Day 7. And it usually goes till night 5 - day 7~. So if they survive long enough, both would get "useless" after night 4.

BTW. is xpons "I'll tell you 3 roles not in the game" rule still in the game?
Because I suggested to change abduct a bit. That Irish can abduct every uneven number of nights (Nigth 1, 3, 5...) instead just one at night 1. I prefer that over 1 time abduct on night 1.

And weakest BO. I never played as BO with sherry in the game. But I think she's not so strong ability wise D:

APTX:
Not sure if we should make changes here. I disliked how we were down to 1 APTX so quickly and had to rely on keeping that last one until the end of the game to stand a chance.
Well, my suggestion is the same like I made a few games ago: Backup-APTX.
For every 10-20 townies in the game (so the BO should usually get 1 or 2 Backup-APTX with our current game size), the BO gets one Backup-APTX. Once the BO had used up ALL of their previously given 3 APTX, they will be allowed to used one Backup-APTX instead (if they have a second backup-APTX, they will not be able to use it until they fail another poisoning).
This should allow the BO to be a bit more... risky with their APTX, since right now each one is so valuable that poisoning on a good suspicion is still to risky and the BO usually has to make 100% sure they are not wrong. Usually the BO loses when she has no APTX left, so as the game gets bigger and more townies are around it might be a good idea to give them another chance once they fail their first 3 capsules.

We might also in-cooperate Sherry with this new suggestion. Right now she has 2 capsules of APTX all for herself to try and poison towies (IIRC). We could change that so she only has 1 for herself and will start using the back-up APTXs afterwards. I think it helps to reduce the "need to burn through her APTX" before she gets exposed, still gives her and the BO a free APTX as long as she is alive and does not risk the starting APTX - which allow for multiple poisonings a day.

I'm against the back-up APTX :V Since it's fixed on 3 because the BO shouldn't go around and guess roles.

If they should get a extra APTX, then with a ability. Like akonyl suggestion, that if a BO does a kill, they get an extra APTX. Was intended for Sherrys father. But we could give that to Sherry herself.

Or, what I also thought about, doing it with "tasks". Since there are one time using abilities or some statuses that don't go away anyway, like VoR or a successful charm usage or a successful protection from ran, or lawsuit or getting injured. SO for those people, in order to be able to use VoR again for example, they need to fulfill a certain task. Or when Ran get's injured. She, for example, needs to find araide. So that she can loose the "injured" status again.
Same for BO then. If they loose all 3 APTX, they get a task they have to fulfill in order to get 1 APTX again. Or once they have just 1 APTX left, they will be given that task already or something.

But conia is planing something with tasks :V I hope I didn't said something wrong with that XD



@Okiya
He need s a new ability: Cooking

[xpon]

BTW.. i dont like the fact that some GM allowed BO aptx the same person with more then 1 role a day!.

please apty 1 person only..

this is silly.

imagine:
2 BO will came and aptx the same target?

[PT]

Why shouldn't the BO be able to poison someone as more than one role in a day? In some cases (most, I would say) it guarantees the kill, but it always forces the BO to lose at least one capsule. So it's their decision to make on whether it's worth it to get rid of that player.

[xpon]

IT not logic enough! and it made the player became more afraid.

if someone say he can protect.. then if the BO want to waste he will be dead in the next day right?

the problem is almost all roles is only 2.
-araide-kobayasi
-ran-makoto
-haibara-kazuha
-camel-jodie
-takagi-chiba

and can you imagine Gin and vodka try to kill/poison someone while they sure 1 will fail?

FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTIONS Right?

[Schillok]

Eri:
Eri got Voice of Reason because she could only Lawsuit for a long time. Now that she has a unique, useful and repeatable ability she should lose the VoR again. This should help to make the early lynchings more meaningful again (When I invented VoR I thought Eri would use it to keep herself alive since she could not prove herself.)... and allow us to give VoR to another character if we feel it fits and that role lacks something without having 2-3 VoR in the game regularly. 

The again, once VoR is used, the BO knows Kobayashi is around too D:

It was the same for Eri before Kobayashi-sensei got introduced in round 14.
And it might finally give her a reason to think if she wants to use that ability if she is not directly threatened by the lynching.

Irish:
Well, the might be most subjective, since it was my role the last game. But I felt I was the weakest BO out there.
His major advantage is that he relies less on luck to get useful disguises than Vermouth, since he can choose out of 5 possible roles. But that is pretty much it.
I suggest we give him back his "Abduction" that he had before. This should not influence him much, fits him perfectly (since this is what he did in Movie 13) and makes him a little bit more useful for the BO.

So abduct and disguising?

I'm for giving both irish and yukiko 1 more disguise. So that they have 4 altogether. They can choose out from 6 disguises then.
Last round lasted till Day 7. And it usually goes till night 5 - day 7~. So if they survive long enough, both would get "useless" after night 4.

Mhh, 3 makes the players think a bit about how and when to use their abilities. They also have to decide if they really want to use one disguise each day or maybe keep one for a bit later. 4 might be... well, no idea.
On the other hand it might help them since it gives them more choices and maybe a bit more useful compared to Vermouth and KID then they are now.

BTW. is xpons "I'll tell you 3 roles not in the game" rule still in the game?
Because I suggested to change abduct a bit. That Irish can abduct every uneven number of nights (Nigth 1, 3, 5...) instead just one at night 1. I prefer that over 1 time abduct on night 1.

And weakest BO. I never played as BO with sherry in the game. But I think she's not so strong ability wise D:

Well, I never player as Sherry (or with Sherry while I was BO) either - but right now she is 2 additional APTX. Well, at least as long as she stays alive. Also her teenager status (I still think I remember her saying she was 20+) might be useful when she gets observed. And of course the BO knows for sure that there is no Haibara on the town side.
You said it later that APTX has a huge impact on the game, but right now Sherry increases the number of APTX by 67% - which the BO does not have if they don't have her in their game.

APTX:
Not sure if we should make changes here. I disliked how we were down to 1 APTX so quickly and had to rely on keeping that last one until the end of the game to stand a chance.
Well, my suggestion is the same like I made a few games ago: Backup-APTX.
For every 10-20 townies in the game (so the BO should usually get 1 or 2 Backup-APTX with our current game size), the BO gets one Backup-APTX. Once the BO had used up ALL of their previously given 3 APTX, they will be allowed to used one Backup-APTX instead (if they have a second backup-APTX, they will not be able to use it until they fail another poisoning).
This should allow the BO to be a bit more... risky with their APTX, since right now each one is so valuable that poisoning on a good suspicion is still to risky and the BO usually has to make 100% sure they are not wrong. Usually the BO loses when she has no APTX left, so as the game gets bigger and more townies are around it might be a good idea to give them another chance once they fail their first 3 capsules.

We might also in-cooperate Sherry with this new suggestion. Right now she has 2 capsules of APTX all for herself to try and poison towies (IIRC). We could change that so she only has 1 for herself and will start using the back-up APTXs afterwards. I think it helps to reduce the "need to burn through her APTX" before she gets exposed, still gives her and the BO a free APTX as long as she is alive and does not risk the starting APTX - which allow for multiple poisonings a day.

I'm against the back-up APTX :V Since it's fixed on 3 because the BO shouldn't go around and guess roles.

If they should get a extra APTX, then with a ability. Like akonyl suggestion, that if a BO does a kill, they get an extra APTX. Was intended for Sherrys father. But we could give that to Sherry herself. [/quote]

Giving it out by an ability has the old problem: It only works if that role is in the game. APTX has a very strong influence on how the BO plays their game and if they can win (by using it correctly) - and again, having more APTX or not having them depending on the luck that a certain role is in the game does not feel right to me.

Or, what I also thought about, doing it with "tasks". Since there are one time using abilities or some statuses that don't go away anyway, like VoR or a successful charm usage or a successful protection from ran, or lawsuit or getting injured. SO for those people, in order to be able to use VoR again for example, they need to fulfill a certain task. Or when Ran get's injured. She, for example, needs to find araide. So that she can loose the "injured" status again.
Same for BO then. If they loose all 3 APTX, they get a task they have to fulfill in order to get 1 APTX again. Or once they have just 1 APTX left, they will be given that task already or something.

But conia is planing something with tasks :V I hope I didn't said something wrong with that XD

Well, but tasks require the GM to actually use them. Not every GM will have tasks to allow players doing things they normally wouldn't be able to.
So it might work perfectly this game. But during the next game when there are no tasks anymore it might matter again.

@Okiya
He need s a new ability: Cooking

I thought you were worried about making him similar to Bourbon?

Well, suggestion:



Cooking (Day Action):
Roles with that Ability: Okiya, Ran
- The character will make a dish of his/her choice during the day
- It has absolutely no influence on the game
- Can be frightened

[Akonyl]

rather than quoting, just goin role by role:

Nakamori:
I'm not all that worried about the auto-arrest vs not for his pinching, but I really don't think face-pinching is as crazy as it's being made out to be that it warrants the loss of an investigation. Yes, it can get you a BO, but it can just as easily get you Kid or Yukiko, who you can't easily get back. So, if you were to compare him to Megure, he has a house search that doesn't get him suspended, only works on one crime, and it's a crime that's used equally by BO/Town, which I think is a fair tradeoff.

And if the Jirokichi alliance is a reason for keeping this down, I think the jirokichi alliance rule should be removed and something else done about jirokichi, because he may very well not be in the game, and it's not really good to make roles weaker because of how well they do with roles that aren't even there.

Yusaku:
My suggestion would be that Yusaku can choose what to deduce: So he can just Deduce (which gives him a list of 5 for each killing), or specifically Deduce the BO killing and/or the criminal killing and/or sherry's killing. The positive side to choosing one or two lists would be that if you only cared about finding the BO culprits, you could get your ability back faster, but the downside would be of course that you'd get less info.

Eri:
I think she should keep VoR, imo. Though perhaps, VoR should be changed to something like "if you use VoR when it's already been used once/twice, it will be noted that it was used in the round but the lynching will still happen because the townspeople are impatient" or something. That way, if you really want to you can use it to prove yourself, but in the event that more roles with VoR are added, the case of them happening to all be in the game and lock up lynchings wouldn't happen.
Eri used Voice of Reason!
it's not very effective...

Irish/Yukiko
I agree that they might need more costumes, but instead of giving them one more, I suggest that Choose Costumes be changed to "The person may choose 2 out of 3 costumes", and be changed from a Prep Phase ability to one they use automatically on any night phase when they're out of costumes. So, Irish would have a costume on Night 2, Night 3, and then on Day 3 he'd have no costumes to change into, so on Night 4 he'd be given a new Choose Costumes list, etc etc. So basically, they'd be disguised every 2 of 3 nights.

Or perhaps if this is seen as too strong, just give them one of two costumes, and have them disguised every other night

APTX:
I don't see any problem with the APTX as it is now, it's been this way for a few games and the BO have done well with it. Part of the reason it was changed to this, iirc, is that BO weren't really supposed to just "test out" APTX on people like they would sometimes when they had 7 or so. The point of APTX, after all, was to stop the mega-alliances that happened in the early games where everyone just listed their roles out in the open, in which case you have a pretty good idea of who they are.


As for double-poisonings, it's admittedly a bit silly imo, but in my 4 straight rounds as BO I'm pretty sure we ended the round that way more than once so I can't necessarily say I'm against it.

[Schillok]

IT not logic enough! and it made the player became more afraid.

if someone say he can protect.. then if the BO want to waste he will be dead in the next day right?

the problem is almost all roles is only 2.
-araide-kobayasi
-ran-makoto
-haibara-kazuha
-camel-jodie
-takagi-chiba

Which is what it intended to do. If you give away your ability you might be in mortal danger if you told it to the wrong person. Though, right now it would make the BO waste an APTX if they use a double-poison during one night.

and can you imagine Gin and vodka try to kill/poison someone while they sure 1 will fail?

FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTIONS Right?

During the "Dark Footprint" case, when Conan hid in the room full of lockers, they sure had no problem to go after him together. Even though only one could have shoot him (and they risked a crossfire) they were making sure by trying it together - and not by having one stay guard at the door and the other one hunting for - what they expected to be Akai - alone.



Now about Akonyls suggestions:

- Nakamori:
But if you compare him to Yumi (a non-homicide department member as well) then he has an unfair advantage over her. His ability is a lot more useful than making couples (and knowing who it might be).
I really don't think it is a good idea to compare anyone to Megure. He was supposed to be a special police officer (now Shiratori is the same but since he seems to be his replacement in case Megure can't work it might be acceptable). So I would rather keep in at the level of Satô and Takagi/Chiba: Better than Yumi and Tome (most of the time at least) but weaker than Megure.

- Yusaku:
Mhh, might be worth a try. Options are good I guess, so letting the player decide might help. Just remember that it also effects Okiya.

- Eri:
Again, it is more about balancing the townies than that I was too worried about too many VoR. Right now she has an ability that is unique and about the power of interrogations (which as we know are strong). She also has the lawsuit as little extra that MIGHT be useful (For example if her old schoolfriend Yukiko got pinched). So these two abilities are already more than enough for her role.
Kobayashi has VoR because her heal is weaker than Araide's.
And if we have another role that we feel might need a boost and which fits into having it we could give it to that one.


Irish/Yukiko
This suggestion is interesting, though it changes the way they play a lot. The way they are now their player have to choose actions which they think will be useful. Before they have any information about the game (except if they are town or BO).

With your suggestion they will rechoose once they know much more. Your suggestion will allow them to adapt to the situation. Especially for Irish this can be very deciding. Not knowing who his allies are when he first choose is costumes ("Do I want a second police disguise to try arrest? Or should I go for Camel for observe in case we are missing Chianti?" Which was exactly what I had to do last game. ) - with your suggestion he knows what is missing, knows if they need some special ability and if they have Calavdos to cover him for some possible strong synergy...

So, the idea is good. But it would change them quite a lot - which is not necessarily a bad thing. And which would allow KID or Vermoth to disguise as Yukiko which could be hilarious.


APTX: It was just a suggestion. But in both games I was BO since the change we were down to one APTX towards the middle of the game. Since every BO member can use the APTX miscommunications - or selfish actions of a single BO - could mean the quick depletion of APTX which means the BO will likely have no choice later in the game.   

[Akonyl]

- Nakamori:
But if you compare him to Yumi (a non-homicide department member as well) then he has an unfair advantage over her. His ability is a lot more useful than making couples (and knowing who it might be).
I really don't think it is a good idea to compare anyone to Megure. He was supposed to be a special police officer (now Shiratori is the same but since he seems to be his replacement in case Megure can't work it might be acceptable). So I would rather keep in at the level of Satô and Takagi/Chiba: Better than Yumi and Tome (most of the time at least) but weaker than Megure.

So you're saying an Inspector who's in charge of the Kid case is equal to a traffic cop?

Just because someone's not in Homicide doesn't mean they can't investigate as much. And tbh, considering that Yumi no longer knows the concrete possible pairs, I wouldn't be averse to her getting Investigation 3 now, either.

And the idea of Megure being a super-policeman is one that I've never liked and have pointed that out in the past, which is why Takagi/Chiba had their abilities changed and Satou got her own thing.

- Yusaku:
Mhh, might be worth a try. Options are good I guess, so letting the player decide might help. Just remember that it also effects Okiya.

- Eri:
Again, it is more about balancing the townies than that I was too worried about too many VoR. Right now she has an ability that is unique and about the power of interrogations (which as we know are strong). She also has the lawsuit as little extra that MIGHT be useful (For example if her old schoolfriend Yukiko got pinched). So these two abilities are already more than enough for her role.
Kobayashi has VoR because her heal is weaker than Araide's.
And if we have another role that we feel might need a boost and which fits into having it we could give it to that one.

Yusaku: Yeah, but we're more specifically talkin Yusaku here because he was in last game

Eri: While lawsuit is one of her abilities, I like to not count it in deciding Eri's strength, as it's literally only ever been used once (and as far as I know, there's only been one townie arrested ever for her to be able to use it one). Given cross-examine/VoR, I think she's fine because all interrogators have a side-ability as well.

Irish/Yukiko
This suggestion is interesting, though it changes the way they play a lot. The way they are now their player have to choose actions which they think will be useful. Before they have any information about the game (except if they are town or BO).

With your suggestion they will rechoose once they know much more. Your suggestion will allow them to adapt to the situation. Especially for Irish this can be very deciding. Not knowing who his allies are when he first choose is costumes ("Do I want a second police disguise to try arrest? Or should I go for Camel for observe in case we are missing Chianti?" Which was exactly what I had to do last game. ) - with your suggestion he knows what is missing, knows if they need some special ability and if they have Calavdos to cover him for some possible strong synergy...

So, the idea is good. But it would change them quite a lot - which is not necessarily a bad thing. And which would allow KID or Vermoth to disguise as Yukiko which could be hilarious.

Even if you made it a night 1 action rather than prep phase, you can still exclude roles from being disguised as even if they're not prep. I don't think we need a double-layered disguise role.

APTX: It was just a suggestion. But in both games I was BO since the change we were down to one APTX towards the middle of the game. Since every BO member can use the APTX miscommunications - or selfish actions of a single BO - could mean the quick depletion of APTX which means the BO will likely have no choice later in the game.   

While it's true about APTX, this is also true about other things, like when I was BO with Vermouth-Okiya and Bourbon and we miscommunicated so they ended up detecting the same people :V

it's just something that happens, I don't think it's a flaw of APTX though.

[Yurikochan]

Quick mention to be added to Kid:

If Kid is erased you learn his disguise.

Also can we please make a rule to make the GM not say anything game wise. As it could make people change their actions and feelings\ext.

[PT]

If Kid is erased you learn his disguise.

Only the one who kills him, though (so BO or Natsuki). It wouldn't make sense for the town to learn about the disguise.

[Abs.]

Quick mention to be added to Kid:

If Kid is erased you learn his disguise.

How exactly would this work?  It'd be the same as him not being erased (because once you know the disguise it could have only been either Kid or Vermouth).

Unless you mean the eraser learns his disguise.

Also can we please make a rule to make the GM not say anything game wise. As it could make people change their actions and feelings\ext.

^

Except that the GM should already know better anyway T_T