Okiya Subaru's True Identity

[The DCG]

• Toichi looks just like Yusaku, which is why Ran's magic intuition caught on, as well as fooling Conan into thinking that it IS his father there!

Eh, I was slyly trying to appeal to the Okiya==Yusaku fans here, saying that Conan THINKS it's Yusaku.  Y'know, 'cause they're twins, & both smarty-pants.  Could be Toichi and Yusaku have been switching out for YEARS, like when Yusaku needs a break from his editors, he goes underground as Okiya whilst Toichi takes a trip over to see how his OWN son is doing.  Or, y'know, to Hawaii for golf.

[Dus]

God, then Yusaku would be an even worse father than I thought. XD
So your theory is Yusaku=Okiya=Toich=Shuichi=Gin=Eve?

[Akonyl]

Yusaku: "Geez, I really hate being around my son, wanna switch up again Toichi and you can spy on my son instead?"
Toichi: "Eh, yeah sure, I like him more than that son of mine that I left to believe I'm dead anyway."

Best fathers ever.

[The DCG]

God, then Yusaku would be an even worse father than I thought. XD
So your theory is Yusaku=Okiya=Toich=Shuichi=Anokata=Eve?

No, no, no- even I know that Anokata is actually Inspector Nakamura.  But the first couple were right.  See, that's why Conan recognized the address: "Isn't that the place where Dad rents out an apartment to escape work and cheat on Mom?"

[Dus]

So Yusaku is cheating on Yukiko with Toichi? Le Twist!
What a way to find out that your father is gay!

[The DCG]

On topic:
Is there a list, lacking agendas, of everything we know about Okiya Subaru?  Taking him as a singular entity, a list, as thorough and canonical as possible, might help in comparison for 'who is' games...

Like:
~ Okiya's first known appearance is here, file 622 in volume 60, where someone- she isn't sure who- trips Ai's radar.  This is also the chapter where supposedly new BO operative, "Bourbon" is first mentioned.
~ The previous day, given the address by classmate Sugiura-kun, Conan appeared to recognize it.  He passed this off by saying it was close to his house.
~ He is introduced as "Okiya Subaru-san, a graduate student."
~ Physically, he appears medium-tall; slender, although not skinny; long faced with squinty eyes; wears oval glasses; dresses in business casual.
~ His age is given as 27, a fairly reasonable age for a graduate student.
~ He implies that he finds nature/greenery soothing, and says that he often watered the neglected garden at the apartment (ref).
~ He recognizes a Holmes reference, gives the actual quote, and states he had all the books until the fire (ref).  Conan does not appear to give this more than a passing "Oh!  You also like Holmes!"
~ Okiya is interested when the children mention a 'Professor,' Doctorate in Engineering they know.  He states that he is also pursuing an engineering degree, and wishes to meet the professor.  He then, in a fairly pushy manner, tries to get Agasa to let him stay there, which seems to shock and dismay Ai (ref).
~ Conan volunteers to let Okiya stay at Shinichi-nichan's house, against Ai's objections.  Conan has an 'up-to-something' look on his face in that 2nd to last panel of the chapter.  Okiya appears normal. (Ref)

[mangaluva]

I lose internet for four days and I manage to miss a Toichi-is-alive theory? Santadammit!

[gealatief]

Oooh Chekhov you're really a deduction master.

[Puto]

When we hear/read someone's thoughts in DC then they're always in their own voice. Conan thinks with Shinichi's voice

No he doesn't. Lots of dubs of the anime did that, but the jpn version always had his thoughts with Minami Takayama (Conan)'s voice, not Kappei Yamaguchi (Shin'ichi)'s.

(not sure about Ai)

Haibara's voice doesn't change between child and adult forms.

[S.G.T.]

Hello everyone
this is my first post after reading every theory(at least I hope so) who Bourbon and Scar Shuichi might be . In the end I found a theory that till now has not been mantioned .Acctually it is not my own theory but it is a mix between the most popular theory that shu is okiya and another theory I found on the internet in a german forum.

1.theory is that Shu is Okiya and Scar Shu is Bourbon,(this has been proved almost perfectly by chekhov. I especially like the Dialoge between Vermouth and Gin she wrote.)
Since there are so many points where this theory would fit to that what actually happend , I will just write a list what bothers me.

1. First and foremost this theory is based on the concept how akai, kir and conan faked Shuichis death      through kir using blank ammunition. I could not disagree. However, the main problem is that from such a close range when Kir placed the second shot would definitley injured Akais face seriously. So that he could not just put a wing on and some glasses and pretending he is someone else.
2. Why did Gin not recognized Bourbon? Because Bourbon is diguised? If this is the case why does scar Akai has a scar on his right cheek? because he trys to look as if he can not speak? Probably, however this is odd to me.
3. A simple question. Why did Conan saved Scar Akai in chapter 704?If Conan knew that Shu is okiya ,why should conan suggest that akai would just appear in puplic without disguise? Or Why should conan rescue someone he knows is evil or he knows will not be harmed since he is BO member?
4. the third minor defect is that through the deduction battle (file 640) we found out that Okiya is as Detective as good as Conan. Pardon me if I hurt anybodys feelings but Akai is not on the same level as Conan. First of all I think that Vermouth values Conan higher then Shu when she thinks that Conan could be the "Silver Bullet" (file 434 last two pages especially the dialoge between Gin and Vermouth could be interpreted as if she sees in Conan a greater danger than in Shu ) and that " only one SB is enough".
Another even greater evidence could be file 599 p.7 where Shu commits that "We(FBI) couldn't even think of such a method... including me...". Do not get me wrong i do not think that Akai is dumb but as I see it there is not a single evidence that Shu could solve really difficult cases like Conan. I think he is good in predicting the BO's moves and notice more than the average persons in DC.Lets just say he is above average when it comes to deduct but does this makes him to a second Shinichi or a second Holmes ? I just do not think so.
5. Ai gets her BO feeling when she is around Okiya. There is not a cleare example in which Ai gets this feeling around Akai.in file ,I think, 326 and in file 383 her reaction could be interpreted just as if she recognized Shu. Since he was the friend of her sister it is possible that Ai saw his face before.Also derived from the file 358-360 where Numabuchi has his 2nd appearance she does not get the feeling when former BO members are around her.

2nd theory (I found  I think in another forum) basically says that Scar Shu is Shu and Okiya is Bourbon . Moreover it says that Bourbon is not only a member of BO but was also Shu's former partner in crime when Shu was in BO . Bourbon became convinced by Shu to betraye the Org. and to work for Shu. So Shu asked Bourbon to try to protect Ai and Conan. Shu also informed Conan about Bourbon and told both to use some phrase from a Holmes novel as a password


This theory is based on what Jodie said to Conan  about Akai (in file 595 page 11) that " I don't know how he go that but the evidences that he produces has never been wrong , not even once ..." , sadly in the german anime this phrase is translated completly different in the sence like "I don't know from who he has got the evidence but his sources has never been wrong".
However, from this sentence we could suggest that Shu has got a partner or a source that nobody not even Jodie knows. Probably someone who works for the BO probably Bourbon.
Another hint that could give us this thought is a drawing in file 418 last page and file 419 page 6;14 and 15 .
It is suggestable that those persons might be Okiya and a till now unknown character who are spying over or even protecting Conan and especially Ai.
Now here is a list which shows  the reasons why this theory could work:
1. The problem of Shus injurie on his head would be solved. Since Shu has a scar that could be the consequence of a blank fire.
2. Ai unstable feelings about Okiya would make sense since Okiya is a BO member but on the other hand he is a good person and works active against the BO. 3. In order to try to protect Shu , Bourbon told everybody that he hates Shu and would like to kill akai all on his own. For which reason should Gin think that there is someone  who hates Akai even more then Gin hates him? This would only work if Bourbon was more related to Akai.
4. In the Bankrobber case Shu would has got a good reason to protect Conan.
5. Conans sympathy would be reasonable.
6. Ai could have recognized him in file 666 last page, probably from file 418 last page and file 419 page 6;14 and 15 .

However there are many holes in this theory, just like:
1.The main problem of this theory is that if scar Akai is Akai why did Gin decided not to assassinate Akai (file 704)
2.or why did Akai appeared in public in the first place? Probably to lure out a spy in the FBI? This theory does not work because if there where a spy in the FBI Kir would be dead since everybody in the FBI knows about her true identity or at least after the appearence of the scar Akai the BO would have killed her.
3. Akai is considered to be left handed but in the bank robber case the scar Akai uses his right hand(File 679). This does not bother me to much it is very immaginable that such great sniper like Akai is just like Gin both handed at least with weapons. Or, and this would explain Akais strange habit of leaving his right hand always in his pocket, he is born as right handed person and is now both handed due to hard training. I first thought about this since I saw one of the latest episode, I think ep. 598. Also in a very old episode there is a femal culprit who has the same habit as Akai I think it was Episode 75 - Kiny? kaisha shacho stsujinjiken.  Murder case of the loaning Company.

3 Well now the mixture of both theorys is as I thought as following:
Okiya is Bourbon and a secret friend of shuichi.
At the same time Okiya was disguised as Scar Akai in the Bank robber case. He and the real Akai planned this disguis , in order to let Akai walk around and investigate without being killed by BO. Bourbons (Okiya) disguis was confirmed from the BO Boss and the mask was made by Vermut. The mask was made with a kinda burning scar on its right cheek. The BO member might think the scar is just a try to confuse the FBI agents and a try to trick them and to find out if Akai still lifes.
The real reason why there is a scar at the right cheek is because it is the same place where Akai has a burn scar from the blank bullets kir used.(In both, Manga and Anime Kir points her gun on his right side of the head).
With this "disguis" Akai can investigate on the BO as well as on the FBI if they have an informant or not. I know it might seem as if I would contradict myselfe but I hope this is not the case. If the FBI has a snitch in their ranks it would be suspicious if Kir would have been killed straight away when the BO was in controll of her.
On the other hand the snitch would react suspicous (if the informant thinks Scar Akai is bourbon in disguis) if he or she sees another BO member or he/she trys to come in contact with Bourbon (if the informant is convinced that scar akai is akai).  In both cases the snitch would be discovered .

However I must admit that this is more or less all blind guessing but I am in favour of this theory because I would be very surprised if the storyline would turn out like this.
I hope I did not waste your time and that my little essay contains something new to you ,or if you could clear some doubts I have towards the first theory I would be pleased.
Please feel free to critizies my essay but please keep in mind that English is not my Native tongue and that this is my first post , so please be gentle with me.

[User 4869]

Shu is Okiya
1 Yes it still a problem. The most plasible explaination if Akai is Subaru is... well. Gosho ignore the fact. L0L. Or Kir use toy gun.
2 It all disguse. Bourbon did not have the face of Akai. He has burn because he know the circumstance of Shu's death.
3 Because he did not know who Scar Akai was. he first think Scar Akai is someone else but Jodie told him he try to warn her so he think may he's real Akai. In Conan's POV, Okiya could discard Okiya's disguise for unknown reason.
4 Vermouth's opinion is not necessary fact. but still that one incident show Conan is better.
This is a list show Shu is good at deduction
viewtopic.php?p=75181#p75181
Compare to Heiji. Heiji's deduction was wrong multiple time (Diplomet, Mermaid) but he still figure thing out the same time as Conan in other cases.
5 I don't think she see Shu. Shu pretty good at stalking people without have that people see him (LoL)
But it open to say her feeling is difference of that come from Okiya. Her feeling from Akai never last long, just in a blink of an eye. Okiya's case, maybe about five secend.

From Numabushi case till Okiya case. Haibara never face with Bo member or have her rader set of again. (She sit in a car not far from Gin's. she notice them but don't have scare face) It can intepret as Gosho try to have her drop that sence to show her character development but bring it
back as plot device.


Scar Shu is Shu and Okiya is Bourbon

The couple that stalk Conan have the couple is Agasa first love as candidate (I can't find the source post)
1...Yes
2 refer to 5 in 1st theory
3 While it plausible to explain that Bourbon tell Bo that he hate Akai to throw people off-guard. I don't know why he insist Shu is alive while other believe he's dead.
4 Scroll down to "Why would Bourbon protect Conan in the Teito Bank Heist case?"
http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... bon_Theory
5 Scar Akai is Akai. Conan believe that. Okiya is someone else. Only good people that give Haibara the feeling is Akai but Okiya is not Akai. What Conan try to do with Okiya? Oh, spy on him.
6 I still see her just confirm that he's the one give her the feeling, not his identity.
And why Ran appear to recognize "that" Okiya?


holes in this theory
1 Vermouth try to protect Akai. She tell him that her Daughter (Chris) in disguise
2 Ah.. If Bo have spy in FBI they'll know Kir is undercover. But kill her immediatly would tell FBI they have spy. So the postpone killing her  (Can' find the source of this theory again)
3 Injure from his assasination make he change his dominant hand.
Episode 75 was a good point. That make "one hand to open Coke can" In Clash more interesting.

[kkslider5552000]

Didn't I already reveal I was Okiya a while ago? Because if so the existance of this topic's pretty odd I must say.

[User 4869]

Didn't I already reveal I was Okiya a while ago? Because if so the existance of this topic's pretty odd I must say.

Since I can't pull your mask off myself I reserve the right to not fully believe you. If you can inform me correctly who is your father (Anokata) I will believe you.

[S.G.T.]

2 It all disguse. Bourbon did not have the face of Akai. He has burn because he know the circumstance of Shu's death.

What I wanted to point out was that the randomnes of the Scar is odd to me ,since the Scar is there where you would expected it to be after beeing "shot" in the head with blank bullets.(In both, Manga and Anime Kir points her gun on Akais right side of the head). If he would have his Scar on his left cheek I would not be convinced on the 3rd theory , but so I just don't want to believe that it is all coincidence

3 Because he did not know who Scar Akai was. he first think Scar Akai is someone else but Jodie told him he try to warn her so he think may he's real Akai. In Conan's POV, Okiya could discard Okiya's disguise for unknown reason.

That is indeed a good explanation for Conans reaction. Thanks I just missed it.

5 I don't think she see Shu. Shu pretty good at stalking people without have that people see him

No I just re read the files and also watched the anime she definetly sees Shu. Especially in episode 259 she also says she saw him.

    I don't know why he insist Shu is alive while other believe he's dead.         

Because bourbon thought that BO boss probably wouldn't believed it too that akai is dead , so Oikiya putted himselfe in best possition of beeing the investegator of this akai case. And considered if the third theory (red 3) is right, Bourbons insist would make even more sense.He insisted so that he had a reason to create a Scar Akai disguise.

1 Vermouth try to protect Akai. She tell him that her Daughter (Chris) in disguise

Hey I am also very convinced that Sharon and Chris were never the same person. Happy to read that I am not alone.

however, I am acctually pretty keen to know what you all think about my 3rd theory.
I would appreciate any kind of comment
thanks for reading

[User 4869]

What I wanted to point out was that the randomnes of the Scar is odd to me ,since the Scar is there where you would expected it to be after beeing "shot" in the head with blank bullets.(In both, Manga and Anime Kir points her gun on Akais right side of the head). If he would have his Scar on his left cheek I would not be convinced on the 3rd theory , but so I just don't want to believe that it is all coincidence<<<<

I don't think I understand you completly. If Scar Akai get a hold of the tape that Gin watch during the assasination (since he's BO). He would know what kind of scar to make.

No I just re read the files and also watched the anime she definetly sees Shu. Especially in episode 259 she also says she saw him.<<<

Can you point out the page please. The closest I see is she say "the man" since he's quickly go away and she ask Conan about him but didn't identify him. In "Contact of Bo" case she only turn and see nothing.

Because bourbon thought that BO boss probably wouldn't believed it too that akai is dead , so Oikiya putted himself in best possition of being the investegator of this akai case. And considered if the third theory (red 3) is right, Bourbons insist would make even more sense.He insisted so that he had a reason to create a Scar Akai disguise.<<<

All Bo convince Akai is dead till Scar Akai show up. Bourbon (Okiya) should not stir the water. and since Scar Akai in bank robber use right hand but both Akai and Subaru use left, there's still problem.
If they think Akai is alive they would have kill Kir. Since Gin hold his hand and do not shot Kir until he make sure he see Scar Akai. Mean he think Akai should have dead unless Akai show up in front of his eyes.
Bourbon is the only one who don't believe from the start.

Hey I am also very convinced that Sharon and Chris were never the same person. Happy to read that I am not alone.<<<

Sadly. I'm joking. I think they're the same person.

however, I am acctually pretty keen to know what you all think about my 3rd theory.<<<

Ah. I pretty convince that Okiya=Akai and S.A.=Bourbon so I cant't comment here.

I'm also pretty convince that the couple that stalking Conan's group is Billy and Fusae. they may  be and may be not work for Akai. They may only interest in Agasa. Akai may be talk to Jodie who take picture of Conan and Co. for him. But "You can't follow anymore? fine. I don't sure either" make it more like Akai talking to that couple and not Jodie (I just don't know who and how take the picture that has Haibara in the foreground.)

P.S. If the discussion continue. I will call Scar Akai "S.A." from now on.