Bourbon's Identity: Who is Bourbon!?

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I see. the place to shoot does matter. Thank
Gin could contact Anokata via Mobile phone right, I assume so. then why he need authorization send via Vermouth. I think Gin ask about authorization must has something to do with what Vermouth say to Gin and we do not hear.
About No 3 in Authorization I mean this: Vermouth dress Bourbon as Akai to test if FBI up to something or is he really dead. Gin's about to shoot Bourbon. Vermouth arrive to tell Gin he's mistaken. Gin ask if Anokata approve the plan to dress Bourbon as Akai. Vermouth say yes and say Boss is careful (so he goes along with Bourbon' planthis is what I mean. And how I intepret this scene.

You have definitely converted me. I think you are right that I have been mistaken about the purpose of the authorization. My version that the authorization is to kill Akai doesn't explain why Vermouth had to get it for Gin instead of him getting it himself, and it doesn't explain the "fanservice Vermouth panel". Kir already knows the boss's number so there is no reason to hide that, and Gin probably didn't ask Vermouth to get permission because he couldn't handle the cellphone while watching the dept store and Kir because he could have asked Vodka. Your version also explains the boss is cautious line better than my explanation and the conversation makes more sense .

Basically the conversation with the subtext added would have gone something like this:
11.1 *Vermouth pulls up on her bike*
11.2 Gin: "Vermouth..."
11.3 *Vermouth talking to Gin such that we as the readers cannot hear*: "That Akai is Bourbon in disguise. I disguised him so he can test the FBI's reactions to him to see if Akai is still alive."
11.4 Gin: "Did you get permission from the boss to disguise Bourbon as Akai?"
11.5 Vermouth: "Yes, I did. The Boss is very cautious. He'd break a stone bridge just to make sure it's solid. Bourbon's plan is just to make doubly certain the FBI didn't plan a trick with Kir to fake Akai's death."

This explanation also has the benefit of explaining why Bourbon can disguise so well: Vermouth helped him. Vermouth, knowing Conan's genius may be used to help the FBI (She saw Jodie and Conan working together back in the Domon assassination), may be more inclined to suspect a trick and find another way to allay her suspicions. (Even though she seem convinced at first watching Jodie's reaction to the news of Akai's "death")
This also confirms my suspicion that scar Akai is probably wearing a mask which was damaged when he ripped the tape off his eyes back in the Teito Bank heist; the damaged mask explains why the upper part of scar Akai's face was drawn in shadow and the gun was positioned to hide the damaged scar.

The one drawback is why did the boss not tell Gin about the plan? Knowing Gin and Bourbon don't get along, is the boss trying to avoid potential arguments between Organization members, or perhaps he didn't think Gin would find out and thus didn't bother?

Rereading this made me realize why Gin compared scar Akai, aka Bourbon, to Sherlock Holmes. Paraphrasing, Kir had said earlier that there was no way that Gin could be tricked and Akai's death was faked and unless Kir and Akai had an ally with supernatural deduction powers like Sherlock Holmes. Gin later called Bourbon a Sherlock-like person because he had done just what Kir said; Bourbon had managed to bring Akai "back to life" with his scar Akai disguise and in the process fooled all the BO members, including Gin, into thinking he was the real one at least temporarily.

[Abs.]

If Chek's convinced, that's good enough for me 

[sstimson]

I see. the place to shoot does matter. Thank
Gin could contact Anokata via Mobile phone right, I assume so. then why he need authorization send via Vermouth. I think Gin ask about authorization must has something to do with what Vermouth say to Gin and we do not hear.
About No 3 in Authorization I mean this: Vermouth dress Bourbon as Akai to test if FBI up to something or is he really dead. Gin's about to shoot Bourbon. Vermouth arrive to tell Gin he's mistaken. Gin ask if Anokata approve the plan to dress Bourbon as Akai. Vermouth say yes and say Boss is careful (so he goes along with Bourbon' planthis is what I mean. And how I intepret this scene.

You have definitely converted me. I think you are right that I have been mistaken about the purpose of the authorization. My version that the authorization is to kill Akai doesn't explain why Vermouth had to get it for Gin instead of him getting it himself, and it doesn't explain the "fanservice Vermouth panel". Kir already knows the boss's number so there is no reason to hide that, and Gin probably didn't ask Vermouth to get permission because he couldn't handle the cellphone while watching the dept store and Kir because he could have asked Vodka. Your version also explains the boss is cautious line better than my explanation and the conversation makes more sense .

Basically the conversation with the subtext added would have gone something like this:
11.1 *Vermouth pulls up on her bike*
11.2 Gin: "Vermouth..."
11.3 *Vermouth talking to Gin such that we as the readers cannot hear*: "That Akai is Bourbon in disguise. I disguised him so he can test the FBI's reactions to him to see if Akai is still alive."
11.4 Gin: "Did you get permission from the boss to disguise Bourbon as Akai?"
11.5 Vermouth: "Yes, I did. The Boss is very cautious. He'd break a stone bridge just to make sure it's solid. Bourbon's plan is just to make doubly certain the FBI didn't plan a trick with Kir to fake Akai's death."

This explanation also has the benefit of explaining why Bourbon can disguise so well: Vermouth helped him. Vermouth, knowing Conan's genius may be used to help the FBI (She saw Jodie and Conan working together back in the Domon assassination), may be more inclined to suspect a trick and find another way to allay her suspicions. (Even though she seem convinced at first watching Jodie's reaction to the news of Akai's "death")
This also confirms my suspicion that scar Akai is probably wearing a mask which was damaged when he ripped the tape off his eyes back in the Teito Bank heist; the damaged mask explains why the upper part of scar Akai's face was drawn in shadow and the gun was positioned to hide the damaged scar.

The one drawback is why did the boss not tell Gin about the plan? Knowing Gin and Bourbon don't get along, in the boss trying to avoid potential arguments between Organization members, or perhaps he didn't think Gin would find out and thus didn't bother?

Rereading this made me realize why Gin compared scar Akai, aka Bourbon, to Sherlock Holmes. Paraphrasing, Kir had said earlier that there was no way that Gin could be tricked and Akai's death was faked and unless Kir and Akai had an ally with supernatural deduction powers like Sherlock Holmes. Gin later called Bourbon a Sherlock-like person because he had done just what Kir said; Bourbon had managed to bring Akai "back to life" with his scar Akai disguise and in the process fooled all the BO members, including Gin, into thinking he was the real one at least temporarily.

So answer one question: Why risk Bourbon life like that? FBI, believing Akai is dead will try to find out what is going on and as least ask him questions. Him running away from the FBI would raise more Suspicion and might cause a warrant to be put out for him so they can pick him up for questioning.

BO side:Believes Akai is dead and seeing him would make them want to kill the 'Akai' to make sure. If Gin could not hold back himself and the others that 'Akai' wold have been killed. Why take the chance.
Only if Bourbon is right about the Fake death of Akai does this make any kind of sense. But surely even for the BO and Even for Bourbon that chance must be low, no more then 25%. Again I ask why take the chance.

The way I see it is doing this gives Bourbon a very good chance of either getting killed or arrested. Surely there was a better way to do the same kind of thing without taking that kind of risk?

[User 4869]

Bourbon do that because he's so sure. He's sure Akai is alive due to his ego that no one cound finished Akai but him (We already seen "Magic deduction geos wrong" wiht a singel hair, Gin conclude person plant listening device is Sherry. He half-right for the first time and completly wrong in the secend. I think because he obsesse with Sherry too much).

Why take the risk. Scar Akai suppose to be seen only by FBI. But due to Conan likeliness to draw criminal everywhere. Plan goes wrong and Scar Akai appear on TV screen. Seen by both Okiya and Vodka. BO drawn to the department store because the bank robber incident alone. If that not happen. Only Jodie (who closest to Akai and may be he tell her "I will fake my death and disappear for a while" but he didn't tell) will see him in the Bank. And only Camael (or perhap plus Jodie for secend time) will see him in the department store. That not much a risk. FBI would not gunned down Akai on first site but BO will. And BO don't suppose to be there.

This explain a bit why Boss didn't bother to tell Gin and Co. Because of "Need not to know" (basic of intelligence) And Gin didn't suppose to be there anyway. Also assume Boss don't watch TV and didn't find out the two incident that Scar Akai exposed to public (if he watch TV he will send mail to tell Gin himself). Only Vermouth could tell Gin to stop and she arrive in time (because she watching TV LoL)

What would FBI do to Scar Akai?
Jodie find Akai, ask him question. It's fine if you do not answer because you can't speak or lose memory due to you wound and experience. But why the hell you did not react at all. when a person ask you for someone else you don't know (Assume Scar Akai is Akai but did not know himself as Akai) you would have at least turn to that person and gesture something that she mistaken. And for a amnesia guy to randomly appear next to peopel who know him by chance two time (Jodie in the robber case and Camel in the department store case) is unlikely, unless it's not by chance.
Edit: this section actually explained by Chekhov in his theory about Okiya/Scar Akai

Extra
The conversation in the liquor store when Camel point out Akai like to drink Bourbon make me laugh "About bourbon, We still did not seen him yet. He should make a move now, He would approach FBI due to Sherry connection with FBI" Whenever BO brough up, they likely appear and Subaru isn't appear here. and Bam! Akai return to life. Camel ask if Jodie spot BO member when Scar Akai get out of Jodie's sight (why Camel think Jodie looking for someone mean she spot BO huh Mr.Gosho. It should have been "Do you spot someone you know"), just like Conan point out "Is there someting wrong with Dr Araide" in the Busjacking case, why send off Haibara, why Agasa did't go alone to buy drug (or have it in their pocket due to they being scientist and Biochemist) Just like Metro love story part 4, a rare case that Detective boy didn't appear in Metro love story case (because Haibara can't be there).

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Scooped by User 4869  :P

So answer one question: Why risk Bourbon life like that? FBI, believing Akai is dead will try to find out what is going on and as least ask him questions. Him running away from the FBI would raise more Suspicion

Gin spoke to the fact that Bourbon hates Akai with a passion and believes he is the only one capable of killing Akai Shuuichi and is therefore likely to suspect a trick in the FBI agent's death. (703.03) Bourbon's beliefs and passionate enmity for Akai drive him to seek out proof Akai is alive despite the risks to himself.
Bourbon's plan to find out if Akai is alive is to disguise himself as an injured Akai who escaped the assassination and suddenly appear in front of the FBI agents who are the closest friends of Akai and the most likely helpers. Bourbon's disguise and unexpected appearance will startle the FBI agents into revealing their true thoughts, and then Bourbon will slip away quickly once he has decided what kind of reaction the target agent had towards him.
That brief moment is all Bourbon needs to figure out if the real Akai is alive or not. It doesn't matter that the FBI are suspicious of scar Akai afterwards because Bourbon is not trying to infiltrate the FBI.

and might cause a warrant to be put out for him so they can pick him up for questioning.

The FBI don't have that kind of power in a foreign country even if they were there legally. There is no way the FBI can get help from the Japanese authorities while they are illegally investigating in the country.

BO side:Believes Akai is dead and seeing him would make them want to kill the 'Akai' to make sure. If Gin could not hold back himself and the others that 'Akai' wold have been killed. Why take the chance.

Bourbon didn't anticipate that Gin would find out that he was at the department store and try to kill him by mistake. It was a serious miscommunication that almost resulted in Bourbon's death. Luckily Vermouth managed to get there in time to bail Bourbon out by telling Gin what Bourbon's plans are.

The way I see it is doing this gives Bourbon a very good chance of either getting killed or arrested. Surely there was a better way to do the same kind of thing without taking that kind of risk?

It was the fault of the aforementioned miscommunication that Bourbon almost got killed. If Gin knew that Bourbon's plan was to disguise as Akai then there would not have been any problems. Bourbon's plan to appear as Akai long enough to provoke a reaction from an FBI agent and then disappear again is a relatively low risk plan. Bourbon chose public places with lots of people where the FBI agents wouldn't be able to capture him or attack him. The plan has a reasonable chance of working in that a hypothetical FBI agent hiding Akai might not be able to maintain the proper "poker face" upon seeing scar Akai. It isn't as dangerous as an infiltration. Bourbon has had terrible luck with unrelated, unanticipatable criminal circumstances trapping him with the people he is investigating. Detectives in DC all seem to have the curse, even if they are the bad guys.

[sstimson]

Scooped by User 4869  :P

and might cause a warrant to be put out for him so they can pick him up for questioning.

The FBI don't have that kind of power in a foreign country even if they were there legally. There is no way the FBI can get help from the Japanese authorities while they are illegally investigating in the country.

Ever hear of Extradition and International Warrants? I sure if the need arose they could get one.  And I am sure Scar will appear again.

Why take the risk. Scar Akai suppose to be seen only by FBI. But due to Conan likeliness to draw criminal everywhere. Plan goes wrong and Scar Akai appear on TV screen. Seen by both Okiya and Vodka. BO drawn to the department store because the bank robber incident alone. If that not happen. Only Jodie (who closest to Akai and may be he tell her "I will fake my death and disappear for a while" but he didn't tell) will see him in the Bank. And only Camael (or perhap plus Jodie for secend time) will see him in the department store. That not much a risk. FBI would not gunned down Akai on first site but BO will. And BO don't suppose to be there.

First: Conan came because of a case there. This time it was not Conan needed to do some shopping, and a case occured.

Second: The way Jodie is acting suggest that Akai said nothing to her about faking him death. I believe there is a good chance in this case that if Akai liked her enough, he would have hinted that. That could be proof of his being dead. It could also be a case of 'wanting REAL emotion', though if true seem to be mean, and I do not think Akai would be that mean.

Third: Scar already showed himself to the FBI and Jodie. Why do it again?

What would FBI do to Scar Akai?
Jodie find Akai, ask him question. It's fine if you do not answer because you can't speak or lose memory due to you wound and experience. But why the hell you did not react at all. when a person ask you for someone else you don't know (Assume Scar Akai is Akai but did not know himself as Akai) you would have at least turn to that person and gesture something that she mistaken. And for a amnesia guy to randomly appear next to peopel who know him by chance two time (Jodie in the robber case and Camel in the department store case) is unlikely, unless it's not by chance.

Could be by chance though very unlikey, also normally if a person calls you something and they are facing you, you would reply with 'I'm sorry. I'm not him' or 'I've never heard of that name'. Running away can be explained away once or twice as not hearing. When he shows a third, he better say something. (or see above - warrant time)

[Abs.]

Scooped by User 4869  :P

and might cause a warrant to be put out for him so they can pick him up for questioning.

The FBI don't have that kind of power in a foreign country even if they were there legally. There is no way the FBI can get help from the Japanese authorities while they are illegally investigating in the country.

Ever hear of Extradition and International Warrants? I sure if the need arose they could get one.

On what grounds?  "Hey, you!  You're acting suspicious!  We need to take you to America and question you!"

[sstimson]

Scooped by User 4869 

and might cause a warrant to be put out for him so they can pick him up for questioning.

The FBI don't have that kind of power in a foreign country even if they were there legally. There is no way the FBI can get help from the Japanese authorities while they are illegally investigating in the country.

Ever hear of Extradition and International Warrants? I sure if the need arose they could get one.

On what grounds?  "Hey, you!  You're acting suspicious!  We need to take you to America and question you!"

Since you asked: The FBI knows the BO exist right. They are likely to come to the idea that Scar is BO. As the BO is a Terrorist Organization, I sure they would get one on the grounds of a suspected Terrorist wanted for questioning.

[User 4869]

FBI don't have evidence against BO especially Scar Akai who they think are on their side. They probably plan to charge Vermouth with the kidnapping of Ai Haibara. LoL (they can't charge her with Jodie's father case because no one would believe Sharon and Chris are the same or Chris herself capable of doing that).  
And FBI break Japanese law by kidnapped Announcer Mizunashi Rena though they mistake her for Famous actress Chris Vineyard. Japanese police and by-stander think FBI are on vacation and repeatedly ask why Jodie still in the country even she "about to return home" for a while before.

Megure and Ran ask Jodie this, and DB think Jodie is still a teacher and think she just role-playing being FBI.

Jodie's status as FBI can't convince Domon that he's in danger earlier. It's mean she didn't or can't tell him that she is FBI or she did tell (i don't see that) but it's dont give her enough credit to convince him. So FBI has no authority here

I agree that Scar Akai must appear again.

I think the incident at the department store mean to confuse audience. They may so sure earlier that Akai=Akai / Subaru = Bourbon or believe the opposite. But after department store everyone act suspicious and do some seeming unexplainable action (I.e What Subaru Okiya' quote about wolf mean or why Scar Akai smile at Chianti). Only fan who are so sure about their theory or fan who don't deduct/expect anything at all would let it pass unquestion.




answer sstimson quote

First: Conan came because of a case there.
"Conan likeliness to draw criminal everywhere" is a joke. The case bring him there this time

Second: "the way Jodie is acting suggest that Akai said nothing to her about faking him death"

Yes, Akai said nothing about faking his death to Jodie. He's so mean to her before in less heart-breaking incident. Akai want FBI'reaction to seem real when BO got Rena back. So he didn't tell anyone and let everyone show their depress in radio that BO likely tab. Plus, have a Gorilla hit Jodie the way we audiance think he just stab and kill her. So it' explain why he's not hinted anything. If he did tell or hinted. Jodie and Camel would give the secret away already. Holmes also did't not tell Watson about faking his death for the exact same reason. Not to mention that Holmes and Akai die in the same place

BTW why do you think Akai is not mean. every one say so by his look alone. DB say he has mean eyes. Conan lamphshade this when he ask FBI to leave Rena alone , Ran mistake him for a serial killer. Only Haibara draw correct conclusion that he's a lolicon.


Third: Scar already showed himself to the FBI and Jodie. Why do it again?

Wait. what incident you refering to. In the Bank case, only Jodie seen him. Camel and Black not. he have to appear again in front of other agent to observe reaction from difference people. Jame Black may be the next target. Or is He BO from the start.


About Bourbon fear that Jodie or other FBI can catch up him. NO way. Jodie and Camel first met Scar Akai when there're no obstacle in the way and they still manage to lose sight of him (Bourbon can remain invisible for a short period due to one of Atsushi Miyano's work)


also normally if a person calls you something and they are facing you, you would reply with 'I'm sorry. I'm not him' or 'I've never heard of that name'


You right, normal people would act like that, but Akai playing a mute people now. with that Chekhov conclude he can't mimic Shuichi Ikeda Akai voice. Yet he actually can speck when he return the cellphone to that man when he send deduction to Kogoro


Could be by chance though very unlikey, also normally if a person calls you something and they are facing you, you would reply with 'I'm sorry. I'm not him' or 'I've never heard of that name'.

Running away can be explained away once or twice as not hearing. When he shows a third, he better say something. (or see above - warrant time)


Are we goning in the same direction? that mean Akai action is unexplainable. He should have not met Jodie and Camel just by chance. That mean it's his intention. He should talk to them but choose not to and playing Mute instead (Repeat: we know he can speck but choose not to).




Edit
Since you asked: The FBI knows the BO exist right.
Yes

They are likely to come to the idea that Scar is BO.
No, they think he's their friend.

As the BO is a Terrorist Organization, I sure they would get one on the grounds of a suspected Terrorist wanted for questioning.
Except evidence against them are very rare.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

The FBI don't have that kind of power in a foreign country even if they were there legally. There is no way the FBI can get help from the Japanese authorities while they are illegally investigating in the country.

Ever hear of Extradition and International Warrants? I sure if the need arose they could get one.  And I am sure Scar will appear again.

Even if the FBI had solid grounds to convince a judge that scar Akai deserved to be extradited to the US, which as Abs. pointed out the FBI don't have, the FBI asking for a warrant in their situation would be like you trying to get a job by breaking into a CEO's office, rummaging through her stuff, and when the CEO enters her office the next morning, you are sitting in her chair waiting to hand her your resume. It's not going to work and will result in criminal prosecution against you.

User 4869 already discussed this part, but I'll go for it too.

Second: The way Jodie is acting suggest that Akai said nothing to her about faking him death. I believe there is a good chance in this case that if Akai liked her enough, he would have hinted that. That could be proof of his being dead. It could also be a case of 'wanting REAL emotion', though if true seem to be mean, and I do not think Akai would be that mean.

It's true that Jodie's reaction to scar Akai shows that she doesn't know that the real Akai is alive. The reason for this is because Akai is using a "fool your friends to fool your enemies" tacticagain, just like he did when he didn't tell Jodie of the rest of the FBI about the plan to allow Kir to be recaptured from the three vans. (605.4) The problem is that this is not evidence of Akai being dead, only evidence that Jodie doesn't know if Akai is alive. Regarding Akai hinting that he is still alive to her if he truly loved her, Akai has already dumped Jodie for the sake of work once -dating Akemi to enter the BO- and may have left a hint to Jodie in the form of Jodie's drink coaster with a warning message.

Third: Scar already showed himself to the FBI and Jodie. Why do it again?

The first time the target was Jodie, the second time the target was Camel.

Could be by chance though very unlikey, also normally if a person calls you something and they are facing you, you would reply with 'I'm sorry. I'm not him' or 'I've never heard of that name'. Running away can be explained away once or twice as not hearing. When he shows a third, he better say something. (or see above - warrant time)

Scar Akai is making himself suspicious by playing the mute amnesiac. So what? He already accomplished what he needed to do by getting a reaction from the FBI agent he approached. As I pointed out above, Bourbon can't have a warrant put on him. The FBI can try to capture him illegally like they planned to do with Vermouth, but as long as scar Akai approaches only one to two FBI agents at a time and chooses to appear in public locations where the crowds prevent the FBI from using force to capture him, the FBI are SOL.

[Shuusgirl]

1) Akai didn't dump Jodie for work, it was because he fell in love with Akemi and he didn't want to cheat on Jodie.
2) Let's say that Scar Akai is really Burbon.  The fact that Bourbon hates Akai makes me think that him taking Akai's spot (playing on Jodie's grief and desperation to get Akai back) and infiltrating the FBI seems rather poetic.  In fact, him pretending to lose his memory would help him get background information.
3) Chekhov, what does SOL stand for?

[User 4869]

1) Akai didn't dump Jodie for work, it was because he fell in love with Akemi and he didn't want to cheat on Jodie.

At least we can say he risk his relationship with Jodie when he date Akemi. But I agree it's until he fall for Akemi that he really dump Jodie.

2) Let's say that Scar Akai is really Burbon.  The fact that Bourbon hates Akai makes me think that him taking Akai's spot (playing on Jodie's grief and desperation to get Akai back) and infiltrating the FBI seems rather poetic.  In fact, him pretending to lose his memory would help him get background information.

That statment support my belief so nothing to debate here.

3) Chekhov, what does SOL stand for?

I also wonder.

[Abs.]

SOL= Shit(e) Out of Luck

[sstimson]

SOL= Shit(e) Out of Luck

I prefer S orry O ut of L uck

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

2) Let's say that Scar Akai is really Burbon.  The fact that Bourbon hates Akai makes me think that him taking Akai's spot (playing on Jodie's grief and desperation to get Akai back) and infiltrating the FBI seems rather poetic.  In fact, him pretending to lose his memory would help him get background information.

It would be too dangerous for scar Akai/Bourbon to infiltrate the FBI with an Akai disguise because the FBI would most likely send him to some hospital or run medical tests on him first. They might even take him back to the US. If Bourbon needed help from Vermouth with the disguise in the first place, then that means he probably couldn't maintain it long term by himself. His disguise would be revealed at some point. (He'd have to shower or sleep both of which would disturb a mask.) Also if Jodie or Camel got a really good look at him, they might notice something wrong, like missing scars, right handedness, etc. Camel has already expressed suspicion scar Akai may be an Org trap, so at the very least he wouldn't take scar Akai on face value like Jodie.
If the Org's goal was to infiltrate the FBI using an operative without Vermouth's disguise level, it would be wiser to replace an FBI agent who isn't so visible or well known in the FBI, and if necessary work up the ranks over the long term to the BO investigation team.