Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

[Kleene Onigiri]

The confusion re DB/lovers lies in two places:

1) Some folks count Haibara and Conan as DB.  It is stated in the rules and roles that Haibara and Conan are NOT DB.  For example, they don't know who Ayumi, Genta, or Mitsuhiko are at the start of the game, and they don't use Identify.  So Conan can be a lover.  Haibara can be a lover.  I don't like how, were that not the case, an observer could just "Observe Dus = child" and automatically have found a 100% ally.

Rather, what you suggested gives the chance to a "Observe Dus = child" and automatically find TWO allies.
I mean... if Dus had a BO lover he would hide him, right?

Please explain.  What I'm getting is:

Abs. observes Dus on Night 1
Dus is a child!
Abs. is happy!  Abs. tells Dus, "Hey I'm totally Jodie!"
Dus is  >:D
Dus tells his BO lover Akonyl, "Psst Abs. is totally Jodie!"
Akonyl tells his BO buddies, "Hey guys trust me, Abs. is totally Jodie and we should use the APTX"
Abs. dies on Day 1

or, in the long, horrifying version, Abs. tells Dus what everyone's roles are, and everyone dies on Day 3

If you observe someone as a child, he/she can still be anokata :x

[Akonyl]

If you observe someone as a child, he/she can still be anokata :x

I know, right?

---


and on a tangent, regarding stealing, two mechanics which I thought would be neat, but I don't expect them to be added in as-is (just something I'm throwing out there to get ideas going )

Jirokichi, Rich Uncle
Adult, Not BO
Night ability: Give Gem
Items: If Jirokichi is stolen from, a Gem is always stolen.
- Jirokichi may choose a player to give a gem to. This player will then have the gem added to their items, and will be notified that they found something shiny in their pockets.
- If a player is given a gem when they already have one, they'll drop the next one. Gems are pretty big, you know.
- If a player is stolen from, the thief will steal any gems they find before other items.
- The item is placed in the inventory before stealing happens. So, if Jirokichi gives Sonoko a gem on Night 2, and Akemi steals from Sonoko on Night 2, Akemi will steal the gem instead of the Schoolbook/Headgear/Panties.

the point of this is that he's a role that can defend against stealing, without giving out "false" information (like giving Ran a gun or something :V).


Though, going along with the "incorrect stealing" mechanic...

Akemi, Kid
Night Ability: Tamper with Evidence
- Rather than stealing, the thief may instead give any item they have previously stolen to a player. The player will be notified that they had the item placed on them.

Not as much a fan of this one (because I think it'd make stealing perhaps too uncertain), but I think it'd be funny.

[Dus]

I like the Jirokichi idea. Would there only be one Gem per game or can he give out as many as he likes?

[Akonyl]

The idea was that he could throw them around as often as he wanted, as in a normal game that wouldn't be too many of the players, really. Though perhaps it could be made that he couldn't give anyone a gem twice? *shrug*

he also doesn't know if he's giving them to BO or not though, so he could be hindering Kid from finding them (and other townies) as well, so I dont' see it as a huge huge issue.

Aside from maybe vermouth-jirokichi.

[Abs.]

If you don't allow him to give gems twice to the same player, once the BO steals from him twice, he's as good as dead XD

[Schillok]

Ayumi has to DIE!

Dus, I will lynch vote Kleene every day. Until she is dead. Thanks.  ::)
Except if karmic justice had made HER Ayumi.  ;D

But I like schilloks idea of the possibility of just 1 DB being in the game.

And I guess it would make more sense to make them lovers or BFF only if there is one of them in the game. 2 might work as well (if there is no overlap). But more than 3 people should not be in a "starting alliance".
Which makes me think: Poor Sonoko is not able to find a lover either because she values her friends too high...
I wonder if she should be able to do so in the future, somehow...

But other roles have the same problem with the stealing. I wanted to give new item. But I can't think of any good items that can be used :/

Well, too many items would just make things harder. I think the current number of items is fine. Enough to identify a character if you have some information about him/her, but it takes more steals the less you know. As far as I know there is no role that can be identified just by stealing. Well, maybe there is, but it would require an awful lot of steals.

If you observe someone as a child, he/she can still be anokata :x

I know, right?

But Abs would have fallen for it. Didn't need a BO + town(child) lover for him to tell everything directly to the boss of the BO.  ;D

and on a tangent, regarding stealing, two mechanics which I thought would be neat, but I don't expect them to be added in as-is (just something I'm throwing out there to get ideas going )

Jirokichi, Rich Uncle
Adult, Not BO
Night ability: Give Gem
Items: If Jirokichi is stolen from, a Gem is always stolen.
- Jirokichi may choose a player to give a gem to. This player will then have the gem added to their items, and will be notified that they found something shiny in their pockets.
- If a player is given a gem when they already have one, they'll drop the next one. Gems are pretty big, you know.
- If a player is stolen from, the thief will steal any gems they find before other items.
- The item is placed in the inventory before stealing happens. So, if Jirokichi gives Sonoko a gem on Night 2, and Akemi steals from Sonoko on Night 2, Akemi will steal the gem instead of the Schoolbook/Headgear/Panties.

the point of this is that he's a role that can defend against stealing, without giving out "false" information (like giving Ran a gun or something :V).

Well, I am a bit worried that he is TOO specific against the thieves. Without Akemi all he does is announcing his presence randomly to townies or BO by leaving them Gems. And make KIDs work a bit harder (or easier, since he should be more interested in gems than some persons headgear...).
He is not THAT bad as I was thinking the first moment. At least he can prove himself to a townie by giving him a gem. Or - well, end up doing the same to a BO. At least he had a long and fulfilled life already...
Maybe we can have the gems have another function? So he become a little bit like Agasas gadgets? Just that he does not take them back after the night. Obvious, the abilities the gems give should be weaker as well.

Though, going along with the "incorrect stealing" mechanic...

Akemi, Kid
Night Ability: Tamper with Evidence
- Rather than stealing, the thief may instead give any item they have previously stolen to a player. The player will be notified that they had the item placed on them.

Not as much a fan of this one (because I think it'd make stealing perhaps too uncertain), but I think it'd be funny.

When would the BO want to do that? Well, except if they want Akemi to pretend she is KID.
And when would KID do that? Chances are, the BO already knew what they wanted to know. Or stole another item except the one KID gave the victim (and now know how to poison him). Or give the victim an item that he already had...

Not much of a fan of this one either.

[Akonyl]

If you don't allow him to give gems twice to the same player, once the BO steals from him twice, he's as good as dead XD

This is true.

Well, didn't he say he was gonna die soon in his first appearance?

When would the BO want to do that? Well, except if they want Akemi to pretend she is KID.
And when would KID do that? Chances are, the BO already knew what they wanted to know. Or stole another item except the one KID gave the victim (and now know how to poison him). Or give the victim an item that he already had...

Not much of a fan of this one either.

If she wanted to be more defensive (as I know she's done once), she could steal from a BO and give their item to someone else? Or perhaps if she randomly got alcohol from someone , she oculd put it on someone else in case kid tried to steal from em. :V

But yeah, it's mostly a "pretend to be kid" rather than an actually useful thing.

As for Jirokichi being too specific against thieves, yeah that's true, but I dunno what ability to give him in addition to that. :V

As for him giving himself away to others and accidentally helping the BO, as far as I see it he's no more likely to do that than eisuke is.

[Dus]

If you don't allow him to give gems twice to the same player, once the BO steals from him twice, he's as good as dead XD

Most roles are done for once they have been stolen from twice.
Maybe Kid (and Akemi) could keep the items they've stolen? So someone with two gems could also be Kid. Or just let him give several gems to the same player.
Anyway, I'll probably sleep over it and might add Jirokichi tomorrow. Maybe make him a prep role, so that Vermouth can't disguise as him.

[Kleene Onigiri]

Uh... I love Ayumi!!!


I like the gem idea XD But yeah, just pooping around gems is maybe not enough :V
(Ability: Cut someone throat with a Gem!)

Well, I'm sure Jirokichi has Bodyguards. And usually he let's the gems be guarded so they won't be stolen.
Otherwise he also wants to find KID. So, maybe he get some kind of info in case a Gem get's stolen? Like, it was KID or not?
Or maybe getting in touch with Nakamori somehow?

I also think he should be able to give out more gems.


Tamper with evidence can be good sometimes. It can save a townie maybe. It would also make certain people less paranoid :x And BOs can get the items they need to pretend to be a certain role (school book? )

And Kogoro can be found out with 2 stealing afaik. He just has alcohol afaik. So stealing alcohol and nothing will point towards him :V

[Abs.]

Nakamori x Jirokichi tag-team! 

[nomemory]

NakamorixJirokichi <3   ;D

[Dus]

Umm, yeah, maybe he could learn who Nakamori is if one of his gems gets stolen? Would make sense.

[Schillok]

I have come to a conclusion regarding Detective Boys:
Detective Boys > Friendship > Lovers

Just like Friendship takes precedence over lovers, being a DB takes precedence over both. So if there is only one DB in the game, (s)he could be a lover or a BFF for Sonoko (again, friendship would happen before becoming a lover). If there are two or more, then being DBs will take precedence
Of course that requires to also allow the Detective Boys to occur without friends. So in the worst case there is one poor lonely DB out there...



Finally:
Well, possible Gem-Abilities.

1) "Keeping an Eye on the Gems"
Jirokichi will learn how many players did an action on each of the players he had given a gem to previously.
So if he gave one to Sonoko (Abs) and one to Kogoro (Dus) he would learn something like:
2 players performed an action on Abs. 0 players performed an action on Dus.

That ability shouldn't be that strong. But it might help in a few situation. Though, it is the perfect GM nightmare. Chances are high to mess up here, and it needs a lot of tracking who is performing actions on who.


2) "The Gems are the Eyes"
The player who received a Gem may allow Jirokichi to get the same results for any of their actions they want. So Yumi may allow him to see the results of two of her investigations. Of course Gin may also allow him to see the results of 2 of his investigations (or 3, 4 or 5 if he desires. And the slandering, but that would be stupid.  )
Don't like that ability much though. Seems too good.


3) "Getting Stronger the more Gems he gave away"

Maybe Jirokichi could have an ability that gets stronger the more gems he gave away? Maybe something that can be used only once?
Like taking everyone in his zeppelin (or fancy ship, whatever) who has a gem. Such players would be "abroad" for one phase, so they can't be killed but fail all their actions as well. Could possibly mess up the BO killing.
Or just boring "Investigate X", where X is the number of Gems in possession of other players.


4) "Gems for threshold"

Once he gave away a certain number of gems, he could use an ability himself. Like... Deduction? Observe? A town version of frightening? Insight?


5) "Gems like a Gadget"

Finally there is the possibility to let the gems give the one who received them a small advantage. (In addition that they will be stolen first.) Things like... uhh, not being included in dreams or hints? Investigate 1, maybe?
There must be something useful...

[Commi-Ninja]

I understand Schillok's issue with the DBs being treated differently from the other children, but I wholeheartedly disagree with making them possible lovers.  They're children!  Ai and Conan have a much higher maturity level, so it isn't quite the same.

I don't have much issue with the 1DB/BFF idea, though.

[xpon]

if only the DB each have a different ability then it will be better!