"Akai's return?" Arc Discussion and Poll

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

      "Akai" definitely got himself in massive trouble during this chapter. That duct tape must have ripped off his disguise. He had to split before the FBI could see him. At the end, he was deliberately drawn so that his face was in shadow and the gun was positioned so the reader couldn't see his scar. My guess is that Gosho didn't want the readers knowing what "Akai's" real face looks like... yet.

I think this Akai is either the real one or is Vermouth. If he is Bourbon, then Akai must be Bourbon, because there isn't a reason a BO member would save some kid (Unless, of course, that member is Vermouth, because she would save Conan). I just hope more is revealed soon.

      The real Akai is left handed so this right-handed one is very likely a fake, and I doubt it's someone who just looks like Akai. It doesn't seem like Akai would wander around where he could be spotted by the Black Org. and I don't think Akai is a double agent working for the Black Org. either.
      "Akai" is unlikely to be Vermouth. If "Akai" is Vermouth, why wouldn't Gosho have let us see it was her at the end when the disguise was messed up? Also, if Vermouth was "Akai" she could have imitated his voice and thus didn't have to remain silent, although being mute could have been a ploy too. One reason the Black Org. would send someone to impersonate Akai would be to check the FBI's reactions to ensure that he was really dead. "Akai" shouldn't be Vermouth because she already affirmed Akai's death by watching Jodie's reaction to the police confirmation that it was supposedly Akai's body in the truck.
http://www.dctp.ws/V59-Reader/File609-EN/File609/609_014.jpg
    It is true that Vermouth likes to protect Conan, but Bourbon also has a reason to do the same. Bourbon would have found Conan's interception of the robbers' plan too brilliant for just a kid and based on the conversation he overheard, there is a possibility that Conan is working with the FBI. Thus Conan is a valuable person to keep alive so he can be investigated and potentially questioned later; it's easier to interrogate a kid than an adult. Also, if Bourbon has access to any Black Org. intelligence he may have realized that Conan or at least a kid of matching description has appeared at several Black Org scenes.

    Being a detective-like person, Bourbon probably figured out the robbers' plan like Conan did, so he knew he could remove the duct tape binding his eyes and hands once the robbers shouted their speech. Furthermore, Bourbon, even if he hadn't removed his eye-covering tape yet, would have heard at the very least the following exchange:
Robber #1's voice: "All right! Everyone stand up now ... Walk towards the direction of my voice!! Good, Walk Slowly! Don't trip on the person in front of you!" Bourbon, aware of the plan, would have known that the robbers couldn't have done this. If he removed the duct tape at this stage he would have seen Conan's voice impersonation trick.
Conan's voice: "It's you three, isn't it? Not obeying orders outside the plan, you can only be the robber's themselves!" The hostages can hear Conan because they have turned to look at him. Bourbon, even with duct tape, could have definitely guessed that the voice's owner is a kid and that kid is the person or is an accomplice of the person who issued the orders in the voice of the robber.
Conan's voice: Alright, let's get the tape off the bank employee's first! Open the main door! Even if Bourbon hadn't figured out the plan yet, he would know it was safe to remove the tape at this point.
3 kids's voices: Okay!
Conan's voice: When the police come in, they'll only see the three restrained robbers here in the corridor, and the one lying in the bathroom... Something decked one of the robbers in the bathroom. Jodie went to the bathroom earlier.
Robber #2's voice: Who's lying in the bathroom? Whether it's that foreign woman, or this little brat... What is it they're trying to do? It is likely that Jodie had something to do with incapacitating a robber in the bathroom because it would be unlikely kids could do it. While he can't be sure what exactly happened in the bathroom, Bourbon does know that the kids know about whatever it was that happened in the bathroom and that Jodie went to the bathroom earlier, suggesting a connection between them.
================

      Right now I think we are at a stage in the manga similar to that which occurred between Reunion with the Black Corps (where Vermouth first showed up) and Head to head with the Black Organization (The confrontation with Vermouth). We have 2 "suspects," Okiya Subaru and "Akai" whose allegiances are uncertain. This parallels the situation we had with Jodie and Araide. I am not sure how good the parallel is going to be. Regardless, after the appearance of Vermouth and the bus jack case at least two unrelated cases went by before any plot related material came up (whether we knew it or not at the time). Once the Vermouth arc got underway, the manga tended to steadily involve the relevant characters and drop details regularly: I would say every other or every third chapter on average. I really hope we get a continuation of this case next chapter.
      One thing that bothered me about this chapter is Jodie's silence regarding the "Akai" she saw seems contrived to fit the plot. Maybe she will bring it up next chapter but it's still awfully artificial that she hasn't said anything.

[Kite]

One thing that bothered me about this chapter is Jodie's silence regarding the "Akai" she saw seems contrived to fit the plot. Maybe she will bring it up next chapter but it's still awfully artificial that she hasn't said anything.

Maybe she thought they wouldn't believe her anyway, since Akai should be dead (who would survive an exploding car anyway?). And that "love-thingy" that supposedly should've existed between those two (argh Gosho make sure you'll be able to spin a believable story around this, because it just S-U-C-K-S! The "plothole no jutsu" is a speciality of Naruto, not of Detective Conan!) would give the others all the more reason to believe it was just in her mind. After all, she was never even suspicious of the guy, so if she would explain it she'll probably be very firm of the guy really being Akai.

Which makes me wonder ... if we see it as Jodie being actually suspicious of "Akai-thingy" (acting out her role), then she should know a spy from the BO resides in the FBI, because only the FBI knows about the (seemingly for now ... -_- ) love between Jodie and Akai. How could the BO know about it? I don't think it would be very smart to show the world you two are in love while both being members of the FBI on the same case. Certainly not if your partner happens to be the one guy the enemy fears most.

[sstimson]

There is a saying : keep silent and they think you a fool
                        speak loudly and they know you are

Jodie does not know for a fact that it is Akai. She does know that the BO is too good at pretending to be someone else. I believe she is taking the route of caution and collection proof before stating her case. She knows because of Vermouth that things are no alway as they appear.

Later

[TheBlind]

One thing that bothered me about this chapter is Jodie's silence regarding the "Akai" she saw seems contrived to fit the plot. Maybe she will bring it up next chapter but it's still awfully artificial that she hasn't said anything.

Maybe she thought they wouldn't believe her anyway, since Akai should be dead (who would survive an exploding car anyway?). And that "love-thingy" that supposedly should've existed between those two (argh Gosho make sure you'll be able to spin a believable story around this, because it just S-U-C-K-S! The "plothole no jutsu" is a speciality of Naruto, not of Detective Conan!) would give the others all the more reason to believe it was just in her mind. After all, she was never even suspicious of the guy, so if she would explain it she'll probably be very firm of the guy really being Akai.

Which makes me wonder ... if we see it as Jodie being actually suspicious of "Akai-thingy" (acting out her role), then she should know a spy from the BO resides in the FBI, because only the FBI knows about the (seemingly for now ... -_- ) love between Jodie and Akai. How could the BO know about it? I don't think it would be very smart to show the world you two are in love while both being members of the FBI on the same case. Certainly not if your partner happens to be the one guy the enemy fears most.

Maybe this is leading to a huge story where James Black is a mole of the B.O. since they hinted he knew about the relationship. If this turns out to be true, it could be we have yet to see a scene where Kir tipped off Akai on how there is a valuable mole in the FBI that is currently in Japan. So to find this mole Akai took on the Okiya identity instead of going into hiding.

[Nyarl]

Jodie doesn't think it's a fake. Unless the Org. has telepathic spies she needs to fake out by strongly thinking, "Shuu?!" It's at least a pretty confident working theory belief. We can't assume Jodie has the same desperate "true love" link with Akai that Ran has with Shin'ichi, either. The right handed use of the gun doesn't quite prove that she's wrong though, since he might be ambidextrous but left eye dominant, or have some other background reason for using a more expensive lefty rifle.

I want to rule out that particular Akai lookalike is the real thing and Bourbon, though. That would really be implausible. Why not just give him his old codename if the Org. decided to exploit his amnesia rather than just kill him? Okiya might still be both Akai and Bourbon, though (but then the Org. might as well just kill whoever it is who does the recruiting, with all the spies and disloyal agents they have).

[tiffishungry]

did ever in the storyline did they tell us what akai's codename was when he was in the BO

[TheBlind]

did ever in the storyline did they tell us what akai's codename was when he was in the BO

His fake name was Moroboshi Dai and the codename he got was Rye.

[dcfan01]

i have a theory based on this facts:
- conan told ran not to talk about shinichi in front of okiya
- akai knows that haibara is sherry (he knows that she became a child somehow)
- there are 3 masters of disguise in the series (yukiko, kid and vermouth)
- the "real" akai was in a very high position in the FBI, even james would follow his orders if he said he had a plan.
- the akai we saw in file 679 is not an innocent person who lost his memory (he was carrying a gun)

Then, Okiya can't be akai, otherwise, conan woudn't have told ran not to talk about shinichi... (even if akai doesn't know about conan being shinichi, he knows about haibara being shijo, and he is aware about conan being smart)

the "real" akai can't be bourbon either, because he was in a high position in the fbi, he had the chance to destroy the fbi and all the information they gathered about the BO. (e.g. during the clash, he could have put them a trap); and besides, if i were the bo, and i manage to infiltrate a member into a high place in the fbi, why would i try to fake his death?

the akai we saw in file 679, can't be the real akai, if he were alive, he should be hiding somewere, because the life of rena (the unique thread to the BO) depends on him. And if he really lost his memory, why would he be carrying a gun?, even if he found it, that is not something an innocent person would bring everywhere...

then if it wasn't the real akai, the unique suitable posibility is him being vermouth in disguise, if it was another BO member, he wouldn't save conan and lose complete trace of him..
if it is not a fake, why did he lied to jodie letting her asume he lost his memory? if he didn't wanted the FBI to find him, why was he showing up while walking around the city?

[H...Haibara]

i have a theory based on this facts:
- conan told ran not to talk about shinichi in front of okiya
- akai knows that haibara is sherry (he knows that she became a child somehow)
- there are 3 masters of disguise in the series (yukiko, kid and vermouth)
- the "real" akai was in a very high position in the FBI, even james would follow his orders if he said he had a plan.
- the akai we saw in file 679 is not an innocent person who lost his memory (he was carrying a gun)

Then, Okiya can't be akai, otherwise, conan woudn't have told ran not to talk about shinichi... (even if akai doesn't know about conan being shinichi, he knows about haibara being shijo, and he is aware about conan being smart)

the "real" akai can't be bourbon either, because he was in a high position in the fbi, he had the chance to destroy the fbi and all the information they gathered about the BO. (e.g. during the clash, he could have put them a trap); and besides, if i were the bo, and i manage to infiltrate a member into a high place in the fbi, why would i try to fake his death?

the akai we saw in file 679, can't be the real akai, if he were alive, he should be hiding somewere, because the life of rena (the unique thread to the BO) depends on him. And if he really lost his memory, why would he be carrying a gun?, even if he found it, that is not something an innocent person would bring everywhere...

then if it wasn't the real akai, the unique suitable posibility is him being vermouth in disguise, if it was another BO member, he wouldn't save conan and lose complete trace of him..
if it is not a fake, why did he lied to jodie letting her asume he lost his memory? if he didn't wanted the FBI to find him, why was he showing up while walking around the city?

Of course Akai knows Haibara is Sherry. Most of the FBI do. They offered her Witness Protection because Vermouth found out she was Sherry.

So what if there are 3 masters of disguise in this series? I see where you're getting at, but Yukiko can easily disguise someone else, as seen in Episode 345.

Akai was a 'Captain' a few years ago. I agree, he is badass, but unlike James Black I don't think badass young FBI members would want a desk job. Evidenced by him traveling to Japan and working basically undercover to catch his enemy, Vermouth. James Black listens to him the same way a sports team captain would listen to someone who is a lot more experienced and knowledgeable than him. Akai is badass and cunning, so whatever plan he comes up with probably works.

Akai in 679 could be anyone, but he's obviously not an innocent person if GA deliberately made him out that way. He could have picked up the one of the robbers' gun. Even if you do have amnesia, you can have flashes of your previous memory if triggered  in familiar or stressful situations. Instinct takes over or something or the other.

I thought that the Akai is bourbon thing refers to Akai re-infiltrating the organisation, but do you guys mean he was in the BO all along? Vermouth wouldn't have said he was a 'silver bullet' if he was. Since it was soliloquy-ish when she thought about it, I don't think Akai is a BO member.

Having said that, Okiya is probably Bourbon. I'm not trying to insinuate anything, but people probably keep thinking what they want to be the truth. During the manga, it very deliberately pointed out that he was drinking bourbon after the paper airplane file and in the opening credits for a movie he is clearly shown with the background a bourbon bottle and the word "BOURBON" splashed across the background. 

I reckon that it's either Vermouth or Akai himself, who somehow got away and replaced his body with some other dude, got caught up in the explosion, messed up his face and got amnesia.

[Nyarl]

...
Having said that, Okiya is probably Bourbon. I'm not trying to insinuate anything, but people probably keep thinking what they want to be the truth. During the manga, it very deliberately pointed out that he was drinking bourbon after the paper airplane file and in the opening credits for a movie he is clearly shown with the background a bourbon bottle and the word "BOURBON" splashed across the background. 
...

Heh, we just learned that Akai's favorite drink was bourbon. So, no, it doesn't mean anything more than Jodie initially calling Conan "Cool Guy" and making a vague reference to the target with a "new form" which actually applied to Chris Vineyard. Conan has to at least honestly think Okiya isn't Org. He's been too open in his investigations around Okiya otherwise. (I mean openly interpreting clues, not just pointing them out or solving word puzzles). Conan's overconfident, but hopefully not prone to plot convenient idiocy.

As for the folks wondering why Shin'ichi's home was cleaned out if he trusts Okiya, we don't know he did that especially for Okiya, for all we know Yukiko thought to do that before she vanished again. As for warning Ran, if Okiya is Akai (or Conan just thinks so) then that's probably to try to keep her from poking around at the wrong time and learning too much or getting in the way of a plan to trap some Org. agents.

[dcfan01]

Of course Akai knows Haibara is Sherry. Most of the FBI do. They offered her Witness Protection because Vermouth found out she was Sherry.

the point was to prove that akai isn't okiya, if he was, then there is no reason for conan to hide his identity (if it's not already known). What bothers me is the confidence of conan, to let okiya live in his house.

So what if there are 3 masters of disguise in this series? I see where you're getting at, but Yukiko can easily disguise someone else, as seen in Episode 345.

that's true, but the only bo member who would save conan is vermouth...

Akai in 679 could be anyone, but he's obviously not an innocent person if GA deliberately made him out that way. He could have picked up the one of the robbers' gun. Even if you do have amnesia, you can have flashes of your previous memory if triggered  in familiar or stressful situations. Instinct takes over or something or the other.

i hope he's the real thing, but there is a high posibility of being a fake... and in that case, i think it has to be vermouth (the only bo member who would want to save conan). The problem is that he can't speak, if it was someone in disguise, why would he/she be unable to speak?

I thought that the Akai is bourbon thing refers to Akai re-infiltrating the organisation, but do you guys mean he was in the BO all along? Vermouth wouldn't have said he was a 'silver bullet' if he was. Since it was soliloquy-ish when she thought about it, I don't think Akai is a BO member.

True, he wasn't a real bo member, and i don't think he could actualy re-infiltrate the BO, even if he did, he would have needed at least a disguise, then he wouldn't have been walking somewhere in his original body.

Having said that, Okiya is probably Bourbon. I'm not trying to insinuate anything, but people probably keep thinking what they want to be the truth. During the manga, it very deliberately pointed out that he was drinking bourbon after the paper airplane file and in the opening credits for a movie he is clearly shown with the background a bourbon bottle and the word "BOURBON" splashed across the background. 

I agree with that, there are lots of hints that tell us that okiya is bourbon (the strange feeling of haibara, etc), and there is no reason for us to think something else.
Anyway, there were a lot of hints that made me think jodie was vermouth, so i can't be 100% sure..

As for warning Ran, if Okiya is Akai (or Conan just thinks so) then that's probably to try to keep her from poking around at the wrong time and learning too much or getting in the way of a plan to trap some Org. agents.

that may be true, but conan told ran not to talk about shin'ichi in fron of him, that's why she lies with the shin'ichi/kinichi thing; but he doesn't tell her not to go to his house. and if okiya was akai, he could've told her not to go so often, because he has to study or work or any other excuse.

[TheBlind]

Of course Akai knows Haibara is Sherry. Most of the FBI do. They offered her Witness Protection because Vermouth found out she was Sherry.

Ummm..not they don't. What even gave you that idea?
The reason they offered Haiabara the protection was for the same reason they offered it to Eisuke. They believe that Haibara was related to someone in the B.O. (Shiho) and because of this became a target. Akai, the only one investigation Haibara for his personal reasons, isn't completely sure that Haibara is Shiho, so why would "most" of the FBI know? Also chances are when he does prove it's her, he won't tell the FBI.

Think about it, the reason the FBI wanted Vermouth alive was to turn her in to the Japanese police so that they can have jurisdiction to work with Japan in taking down the B.O. because without any evidence they are forced to work in the shadows. So if Shiho(forget about Haibara for a minute) was in their possession, they would simple use her for said purpose and question her on the workings of the B.O. to get valuable information. Now bring Haibara back, if the FBI would react like above to Shiho, imagine how they would react to Haibara. It would be constant questioning about APTX4869, studying Haibara, and their focus would change more towards the APTX4869.

The fact that they offered Haibara the Witness Protection Program and let her refuse it is evidence enough that they don't know.

[Nyarl]

As for warning Ran, if Okiya is Akai (or Conan just thinks so) then that's probably to try to keep her from poking around at the wrong time and learning too much or getting in the way of a plan to trap some Org. agents.

that may be true, but conan told ran not to talk about shin'ichi in fron of him, that's why she lies with the shin'ichi/kinichi thing; but he doesn't tell her not to go to his house. and if okiya was akai, he could've told her not to go so often, because he has to study or work or any other excuse.

If Conan thought Okiya were Org. then that's even more reason to warn Ran away before she even went.

Of course Akai knows Haibara is Sherry. Most of the FBI do. They offered her Witness Protection because Vermouth found out she was Sherry.

Ummm..not they don't. What even gave you that idea?

The fact they explicitly call Haibara "Sherry". The CIA supposedly does the "renditions", not the FBI. The FBI probably needs much more evidence than the code name to justify holding her against her will. That doesn't mean they haven't still been watching her off scene after she refused the WPP. I don't think they know much about APTX itself, though. Hard to say how much Conan has told them.

P.S. I need to revise this:

As for the folks wondering why Shin'ichi's home was cleaned out if he trusts Okiya, we don't know he did that especially for Okiya, for all we know Yukiko thought to do that before she vanished again.

Shin'ichi couldn't have cleaned out his home just for Okiya, since he handed over the house key immediately.

[TheBlind]

The fact they explicitly call Haibara "Sherry". The CIA supposedly does the "renditions", not the FBI.

James never states he believes Sherry is Haibara, for all we know that sentence could be structured "The problem is Sherry, will that girl(Ai) that is connected to her accept our offer?" That isn't decisive evidence showing that they have figured anything out and by their current actions, it seems they have not.

The FBI probably needs much more evidence than the code name to justify holding her against her will. That doesn't mean they haven't still been watching her off scene after she refused the WPP. I don't think they know much about APTX itself, though. Hard to say how much Conan has told them.

Given that the FBI must know that Sherry was an adult by shadowing Vermouth, it would be highly unbelievable that they know she is now a child and are acting like everything is fine. So even if they didn't know about APTX4869, they would still be investigating why a former adult is now a child and would be more cautious around her. Another thing is Haibara is calm around the FBI and this would be against her nature if she even suspected the FBI knew who she was. All she would be thinking about how now more people know who she is and these people who are "friends" could potentially exploit her down the road.

As for the FBI, they don't need any evidence if they wish to hold Haibara due to them not having any jurisdiction. The operations they are carrying in Japan already has them in violation so if they really felt Haibara was Sherry(without knowing she is a high member in the B.O.) they would hold her. It also wouldn't take a lot of information to uncover what was Sherry's role in the B.O. since they are already familiar with Akemi Miyano and her sister who was a top scientist within the Black Organization.

[Nyarl]

The fact they explicitly call Haibara "Sherry". The CIA supposedly does the "renditions", not the FBI.

James never states he believes Sherry is Haibara, for all we know that sentence could be structured "The problem is Sherry, will that girl(Ai) that is connected to her accept our offer?" That isn't decisive evidence showing that they have figured anything out and by their current actions, it seems they have not.

Other times Jodie or James call her, "That brown haired girl which the Org. called Sherry."