Detective Conan Episode 581 (The Red Shaking Target) Discuss

[arielrachel0527]

So I just finished this episode, and one thing really puzzles me.

I don't  really understand why Vermouth is even there! It seems to me that Gosho just wants to assemble all the BO known members so that we can see them and since it's a BO case anyway.

After watching this episode, I kind of started liking Chianti because she's so hilarious after the scar Akai looked at her, and she totally freaked out and said something like, "He f***ing look at me and laughed! What do I do?!!" That was just great!!

[Dus]

One possibility is that she fitted Bourbon with a mask. And wanted to see Gin and the others when they realize they were wrong.

[Jd-]

Well, I always thought the reason was so that Gosho could use it to say, "Hey, you thought Vermouth was up to her old tricks and was the one disguising as Okiya/Akai? Think again, I got you!"

If so, it works on that front.

[TheBlind]

You can't work for another country's intelligence agency if you're not a citizen of that country

LOL I just realized this is technically wrong LOL

Oh America

Why did you strike it out? Is it wrong?
I doubt the CIA would allow non-citizens to join the agency.
The chances of them being a spy are increased.

Spies?
You can recruit members from other non-United State agencies and can have them act as moles and spies for your agency.
If they are United States citizens...then they cover is blown..bad.

[Dus]

Can naturalized Americans really become members of the CIA or FBI? They can't be President after all. And it would be terribly easy for spies to infiltrate American intelligence if they were allowed to.

[Jd-]

You can't even be considered for the FBI or CIA without being a natural born citizen as far as I know.

[Dus]

It kinda makes sense for the Japanese population in the FBI, since
a)the Japanese are chauvinists and half-Japanese are already way too foreign for them.
b)the might have been chosen because this particular task force deals with something to do with Japan, so maybe they're not permanent mebers.

But James Black? Why would a Brit hold such an important position?

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

You can't even be considered for the FBI or CIA without being a natural born citizen as far as I know.

I'm pretty sure they hire outside of natural born citizens. A US citizenship is required for application, but that's different than being naturally born in the US.
http://www.wikihow.com/Become-a-CIA-Agent
https://www.cia.gov/careers/application-process/index.html

[Jd-]

You can't even be considered for the FBI or CIA without being a natural born citizen as far as I know.

I'm pretty sure they hire outside of natural born citizens. A US citizenship is required for application, but that's different than being naturally born in the US.
http://www.wikihow.com/Become-a-CIA-Agent
https://www.cia.gov/careers/application-process/index.html

Definitely a fair point, but I will say that despite being in the law + law enforcement arena for a while, I have never heard of any naturalized citizens coming close to a career with either. Some factors would likely be their country of origin, that country's status toward the United States as of current, and of course at what age they entered the US. If it was in infancy or childhood, I can't see any problems outside of being from a family with questionable ties.

Beyond that, we could be saying the "problem" is really more political than anything. Because of how accepting our society is of foreigners becoming citizens (and rightfully so, go USA ), it would be counterproductive to immediately disallow them from applying. However, I guarantee that very few not born as American citizens are accepted without a clincher of some sort--it's a very sensible policy, and there is nothing stopping them from opting for local law enforcement over the intelligence field, so it's not exactly unfair even if it is the usual case.

While I would assume even naturalized citizens are occasionally given operative status, it's not too likely to be common and is more likely the product of very specific situations. Them being given any sort of security clearance alone would be difficult (if not impossible in many cases, given just how thorough the background checks are), so I really suspect that being a naturalized citizen does not work in one's favor of becoming a full-fledged service officer in the FBI or the CIA. Of course, we're occasionally going to need people to work abroad with specific ethnic backgrounds and experience with particular cultures and languages.

I'll definitely pay attention to it more in the future--could be interesting!

[Detective Tommy]

So I just finished this episode, and one thing really puzzles me.

I don't  really understand why Vermouth is even there! It seems to me that Gosho just wants to assemble all the BO known members so that we can see them and since it's a BO case anyway.

After watching this episode, I kind of started liking Chianti because she's so hilarious after the scar Akai looked at her, and she totally freaked out and said something like, "He f***ing look at me and laughed! What do I do?!!" That was just great!!

Did Vermouth know about Gin calling Kir up?
I was thinking maybe Vermouth want to save her...
And I believe that Vermouth knows something.



And what was the cautious thing all about? In Vermouth/Gin's conversation...

[GinRei]

And I believe that Vermouth knows something.

We know Vermouth knows, since she called Kir out as being a NOC back before she was captured.

[Abs.]

Them being given any sort of security clearance alone would be difficult (if not impossible in many cases, given just how thorough the background checks are)

1000% not true

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

And what was the cautious thing all about? In Vermouth/Gin's conversation...

I think that was Vermouth having some idea what Bourbon was up to and was informing Gin to avoid friendly fire.

One thing that bothered me about the anime scene is it looked sort of like Vermouth said something to Gin we didn't get to catch. There is a corresponding panel in the manga but I figured it was simply a gratuitous Vermouth's cleavage fanservice shot. I wonder if the scene was intended to suggest Vermouth said something else?

And I believe that Vermouth knows something.

We know Vermouth knows, since she called Kir out as being a NOC back before she was captured.

Just clarifying, she doesn't know for sure Kir is a traitor nor that Akai is running around in disguise. She seemed to be fooled in the end when she declared only one silver bullet was needed.

[Detective Tommy]

And I believe that Vermouth knows something.

We know Vermouth knows, since she called Kir out as being a NOC back before she was captured.

Who did she say that to?

And what was the cautious thing all about? In Vermouth/Gin's conversation...

I think that was Vermouth having some idea what Bourbon was up to and was informing Gin to avoid friendly fire.

One thing that bothered me about the anime scene is it looked sort of like Vermouth said something to Gin we didn't get to catch. There is a corresponding panel in the manga but I figured it was simply a gratuitous Vermouth's cleavage fanservice shot. I wonder if the scene was intended to suggest Vermouth said something else?

And I believe that Vermouth knows something.

We know Vermouth knows, since she called Kir out as being a NOC back before she was captured.

Just clarifying, she doesn't know for sure Kir is a traitor nor that Akai is running around in disguise. She seemed to be fooled in the end when she declared only one silver bullet was needed.

No, Vermouth called the BO boss a very cautious person.
What did the BO boss do? I might have missed something very important in their dialogue.

Yeah, because Vermouth said the BO only needed one silver bullet: Conan.

[Jd-]

Them being given any sort of security clearance alone would be difficult (if not impossible in many cases, given just how thorough the background checks are)

1000% not true

Is Abs. a naturalized citizen with a classified security clearance within the United States government?

In all seriousness, I have strong reservations about saying that naturalized citizens are truly on the same level as natural born citizens as far as being admitted into roles in national intelligence. The reason is simply that, if any naturalized citizen can become a ranking member of the CIA, especially, it would be far easier for foreign operations to infiltrate the agency than it would if only mostly natural born citizens were permitted. All I've been saying is: It really isn't in our best interest to allow foreigners who have become citizens past the age of say, twenty or so, to become full-fledged agents responsible for national security. We can't know where their allegiances lie, so I would imagine their roles are mostly very specific ones related to very particular regions. Let's distinguish that there is a huge difference between actual CIA agents and CIA foreign operatives/informants. Actual CIA agents are meant to be versatile, while the foreign operatives picked up when necessary are obviously for those very particular situations. Of course, there are (rightly) going to be exceptions.

That said, someone I know recently went through a government background check, and even they were worried as to what would come up. I can't even imagine what it would be like for someone who has spent the bulk of their life outside of the country.

In summary! The requirement of accepting "all US citizens" for application is likely politically-motivated, but they are probably not treated as equally as that would imply. And that, for once, I think is the best course of action. Of course, the CIA's standard procedure could really be that purported transparent arms-wide-open policy.

Hey, it's better than in Japan, where you can be barred from being a volunteer fireman. (Yes, that one guy was able to recently, but there was another case where that "administrative" restriction law came into effect... For a fireman. A volunteer fireman. Some places elsewhere in the world have animals working in their volunteer fire departments--truly equal opportunity. Even for species! )