Shinichi+Ran

[Kor]

As I said, I'm not a fan of any couple, but ShinRan is my preferred one if I had to choose between AiCon and ShinRan, mainly because it's canon, but also for several reasons which I'm going to say now.

First of all, their love is innocent and simple, much like Usagi and Mamoru from Sailor Moon. I don't know why I liked that relationship so much, but maybe it's because a romance like that isn't so common in our world, but yet possible if two people really love each other so much.

For the first one who says "it's for people who believe in fairy tales" then let me explain why ShinichiXRan (or UsagiXMamoru) just can't be categorized in the section of fairy tales romances. THE COUPLE IS REASONABLE. The fairy tales couples don't make much sense since they are usually loves at first sights and even without knowing each other, they fall in love immediately for no reason whatsoever.
With Shinichi and Ran it's simply not the case. They knew each other for most of their life so there is a lot of sense in why they love each other.

About Sora's post in the AiCon thread with all that psychology stuff, while it was a bit interesting, I have to declare myself as the example for why the idea of "the passemistic people like AiCon more" doesn't apply for everyone.
As far as I concern myself, I'm THE most passemistic man in the planet (at least I was. Now I'm not as bad as I used to be) and I'm not a fan of AiCon. I can see Haibara has feelings for him, but I don't see this couple any more appealing than any other couple in the series. (In all truth though, no member of this forum can be too passemistic because......he's in this forum).
Yes, Haibara is my favorite character in the series, and I can't use the reason that she was the plot bringer because I started watching straight from episode 129, so reading about her personality in wikipedia did encourage me to like her, but the biggest reason why I started and like Haibara is because I'm a huge fan of the "turn a character from an adult to a child" concept (which is a concept also used in my novel, though mind you, it's not a rip from DC because that concept was in my mind since childhood. If I need to say from where I remember it first, it would probably be the Power Rangers). True, we had Conan, but watching the german dub a few years prior discouraged me to watch the series, and I only really got into anime last year and out of all the characters, Haibara seemed the most interesting.

Now why do many people like Haibara? I'm going to put the passemism aside here. for those who started from episode 1 (aka the normal people  :P), most of the characters became pretty boring and there wasn't much plot. But then Haibara came who didn't only have quite a different personality from most of the characters, she also brought the plot with her. I think that's one of the major reasons why many people like Ai a lot.

Many people claim how boring ShinRan is, however there is a problem here. DC, like most manga, was never intended to be 700+ chapters. The reason why ShinRan may seem boring is because it didn't develop much, but there isn't much to develop to begin with, since they pretty much loved each other from the start. The idea of this couple is based on the inability to be together (Shinichi being turned to Conan, so they can't be together until he finds a cure and takes down the B.O.).
Actually, in many shows we have the same problem, and since TV shows can be canceled easilly, the writers usually write for a short-lived series.
Let's take Friends for example. How many times can Rachel be with Ross? It was obvious from the early days that the two would end up together, but the show was popular, so they the network didn't want it to end, so it had to continue and break the couple and then pair them again. It became boring eventually, but it's our fault that we liked the show so much that they had to continue it.
Another example is Scrubs. We also knew that Eliot and J.D. were going to end up together, but again, the show was popular, so they couldn't conclude it. True, in the last season of Scrubs (with the regular cast, not the new one) Eliot and J.D. were pretty much together from the start, but that was when it was fairly certain that there won't be another season with most of the regular cast (J.D. and Eliot for that matter).
There is a question though regarding these two examples. Why didn't the writers pair the couple together and that's it? surely the series could go on and the two would be together to the end of the show? The answer is actually fairly simple - if the one thing that didn't resolve itself, resolved itself, there is no reason to continue the story, since the story was over. They could make episodes with their daily conflicts and insert whatever jokes they wanted, but if they were together, there was just no more story to tell. In other words - the status quo.
A series with a more visible status quo is Smallville. Until the fifth season, the status quo of the show was that there is some sort of a conflict, and Clark has to solve it and hide his secret from anyone (Pete knew from the second season, but it didn't affect the series as much as it did when Chloe got to know Clark's secret). Occasionally one of the characters was close to figure Clark's secret but he always managed to fool that character into believing otherwise. The main idea of the Clark+Lana (though in the last season it became Lois) is that until he doesn't reveal his secret, they can't be together happily and indeed only in the seventh season they were together, but later they broke up again. That's what in most of these shows the writers do. They pair the main couple together, but since they can't resolve this couple fully (because the main couple usually gets their "happily ever after" only at the end of the series), the writers later break the couple again only to pair him up later. Yeah, in the Clark+Lana it should be noted that Lana's actress left the series, so they had to break up anyway and the writers real intention was probably to pair Clark with Lois eventually (which was kinda obvious since she was introduced). Smallville though is a great example for status quo and a show like Conan. Smallville originally was supposed to be the "adventures of young Clark Kent" yet our "young Clark" isn't so young anymore and he even got to the daily planet (wasn't that when Superman should have entered the picture as well?). The series became popular so it had to go on.
I can think of many other examples. in the end of the season 1 of Gossip Girl (I saw some episodes because there was nothing else to watch on TV in that slot), everything seemed to be resolved at the end, yet at the final scenes, all the characters (as idiots as they apparently were) decided to destroy what they built up through the season (therefore reopening the conflicts or creating new conflicts for the next season). Again, the show was popular, so the conflicts couldn't be resolved at the end of season 1

So after all of this, we are back DC. DC is a show with a visible status quo. Every 3 files (usually) we have a new case and whatever happens in it, it doesn't affect the plot too much. Every once in awhile, we have some appearance of the plot, but even so, it won't affect the status quo (not for long at least). The longest time where the status quo was broken was in the desperate revival arc.
Whatever happens in the plot (after B.O. confrontation for example), at the first case we usually see some connection, but then later, we're back to the usual cases.
If something major happened in the plot (like Gin discovering Conan's identity), the status quo will break and either the series will have to either be soon resolved, or develop a new status quo (which in DC's case after all this time would be impossible).

Now we're back to ShinRan. My point after all of this is that ShinRan isn't that boring as it may seem. It's just a side-effect due to the status quo and the length of the show. evidantly, ALL the plot-related characters in DC are really short-termed also because of the length of the series. Eisuke for example (while the possibility exists that he may come back) was only used for the Kir arc. Araide was mostly used only for the Vermouth arc. Even Haibara lately starts to seem a bit boring, simply because when Gosho created her, he only had in mind what he needed her for (probably the Vermouth arc) and nothing beyond. Also Vermouth, a main villain before, but now just a minor B.O. member.
Once these characters were used for their intended plot-points, there is nothing more to do with them, and now, Haibara is suffering from it and she doesn't become that much interesting. Sorry to say this, but in the current arc she doesn't have any use besides telling Conan that Okiya is probably from the B.O.

Bottom line, the one in fault for making ShinRan seem boring for some people is not Gosho, but actually the fans who like the series so much, so Gosho needs to continue it. The only bad thing Gosho did was probably trapping himself inside this certain status quo, but then again, it works for him pretty well and without this status quo, DC wouldn't have been the same.
It did cause some inconsistancy and changing Ran's personality as well (for better or worse, you decide), but it may be because Gosho is tired of the series already.

With this issue covered (YEAH I'M NOT DONE YET  ;D) Here is the second reason why I prefer ShinRan over AiCon. What did this couple need to exist in the first place?
DC has realistic settings and the essence of ShinRan is fairly realistic. (growing together and eventually falling in love). The only thing they needed is to confess to each other that they love each other. The most unrealistic thing in the series (the drug) partly took care of that when Ran told Conan that she loved Shinichi in the second episode. I say partly because the love was already there before the drug. The relationship could have worked even without the B.O.
AiCon however is the exact opposite. In order for Ai and Conan to meet, there was a need of an evil secret organization, an unrealistic drug, and the survival (and shrinking) of both Conan and Ai from the drug (and some other stuff like Shinichi encountering Gin in the first episode but that's fairly minor compared to the other stuff).

In fiction, nothing is a coincidence (since the writer means for it to happen), but compared to ShinRan, AiCon needed much more (including the most unrealistic elements of DC).

simply due to the fact that AiCon needed so much things to happen in order to exist, I don't see it as such a great couple.

Ok, that's the last time I'm gonna write a long post and waste 1 hour of my life. I guess for this special occasion (haven't had homework in years, so I guess I needed something else to do to avoid it), I allowed it to myself.

[xGinx]

As I said, I'm not a fan of any couple, but ShinRan is my preferred one if I had to choose between AiCon and ShinRan, mainly because it's canon, but also for several reasons which I'm going to say now.

First of all, their love is innocent and simple, much like Usagi and Mamoru from Sailor Moon. I don't know why I liked that relationship so much, but maybe it's because a romance like that isn't so common in our world, but yet possible if two people really love each other so much.

For the first one who says "it's for people who believe in fairy tales" then let me explain why ShinichiXRan (or UsagiXMamoru) just can't be categorized in the section of fairy tales romances. THE COUPLE IS REASONABLE. The fairy tales couples don't make much sense since they are usually loves at first sights and even without knowing each other, they fall in love immediately for no reason whatsoever.
With Shinichi and Ran it's simply not the case. They knew each other for most of their life so there is a lot of sense in why they love each other.

About Sora's post in the AiCon thread with all that psychology stuff, while it was a bit interesting, I have to declare myself as the example for why the idea of "the passemistic people like AiCon more" doesn't apply for everyone.
As far as I concern myself, I'm THE most passemistic man in the planet (at least I was. Now I'm not as bad as I used to be) and I'm not a fan of AiCon. I can see Haibara has feelings for him, but I don't see this couple any more appealing than any other couple in the series. (In all truth though, no member of this forum can be too passemistic because......he's in this forum).
Yes, Haibara is my favorite character in the series, and I can't use the reason that she was the plot bringer because I started watching straight from episode 129, so reading about her personality in wikipedia did encourage me to like her, but the biggest reason why I started and like Haibara is because I'm a huge fan of the "turn a character from an adult to a child" concept (which is a concept also used in my novel, though mind you, it's not a rip from DC because that concept was in my mind since childhood. If I need to say from where I remember it first, it would probably be the Power Rangers). True, we had Conan, but watching the german dub a few years prior discouraged me to watch the series, and I only really got into anime last year and out of all the characters, Haibara seemed the most interesting.

Now why do many people like Haibara? I'm going to put the passemism aside here. for those who started from episode 1 (aka the normal people  :P), most of the characters became pretty boring and there wasn't much plot. But then Haibara came who didn't only have quite a different personality from most of the characters, she also brought the plot with her. I think that's one of the major reasons why many people like Ai a lot.

Many people claim how boring ShinRan is, however there is a problem here. DC, like most manga, was never intended to be 700+ chapters. The reason why ShinRan may seem boring is because it didn't develop much, but there isn't much to develop to begin with, since they pretty much loved each other from the start. The idea of this couple is based on the inability to be together (Shinichi being turned to Conan, so they can't be together until he finds a cure and takes down the B.O.).
Actually, in many shows we have the same problem, and since TV shows can be canceled easilly, the writers usually write for a short-lived series.
Let's take Friends for example. How many times can Rachel be with Ross? It was obvious from the early days that the two would end up together, but the show was popular, so they the network didn't want it to end, so it had to continue and break the couple and then pair them again. It became boring eventually, but it's our fault that we liked the show so much that they had to continue it.
Another example is Scrubs. We also knew that Eliot and J.D. were going to end up together, but again, the show was popular, so they couldn't conclude it. True, in the last season of Scrubs (with the regular cast, not the new one) Eliot and J.D. were pretty much together from the start, but that was when it was fairly certain that there won't be another season with most of the regular cast (J.D. and Eliot for that matter).
There is a question though regarding these two examples. Why didn't the writers pair the couple together and that's it? surely the series could go on and the two would be together to the end of the show? The answer is actually fairly simple - if the one thing that didn't resolve itself, resolved itself, there is no reason to continue the story, since the story was over. They could make episodes with their daily conflicts and insert whatever jokes they wanted, but if they were together, there was just no more story to tell. In other words - the status quo.
A series with a more visible status quo is Smallville. Until the fifth season, the status quo of the show was that there is some sort of a conflict, and Clark has to solve it and hide his secret from anyone (Pete knew from the second season, but it didn't affect the series as much as it did when Chloe got to know Clark's secret). Occasionally one of the characters was close to figure Clark's secret but he always managed to fool that character into believing otherwise. The main idea of the Clark+Lana (though in the last season it became Lois) is that until he doesn't reveal his secret, they can't be together happily and indeed only in the seventh season they were together, but later they broke up again. That's what in most of these shows the writers do. They pair the main couple together, but since they can't resolve this couple fully (because the main couple usually gets their "happily ever after" only at the end of the series), the writers later break the couple again only to pair him up later. Yeah, in the Clark+Lana it should be noted that Lana's actress left the series, so they had to break up anyway and the writers real intention was probably to pair Clark with Lois eventually (which was kinda obvious since she was introduced). Smallville though is a great example for status quo and a show like Conan. Smallville originally was supposed to be the "adventures of young Clark Kent" yet our "young Clark" isn't so young anymore and he even got to the daily planet (wasn't that when Superman should have entered the picture as well?). The series became popular so it had to go on.
I can think of many other examples. in the end of the season 1 of Gossip Girl (I saw some episodes because there was nothing else to watch on TV in that slot), everything seemed to be resolved at the end, yet at the final scenes, all the characters (as idiots as they apparently were) decided to destroy what they built up through the season (therefore reopening the conflicts or creating new conflicts for the next season). Again, the show was popular, so the conflicts couldn't be resolved at the end of season 1

So after all of this, we are back DC. DC is a show with a visible status quo. Every 3 files (usually) we have a new case and whatever happens in it, it doesn't affect the plot too much. Every once in awhile, we have some appearance of the plot, but even so, it won't affect the status quo (not for long at least). The longest time where the status quo was broken was in the desperate revival arc.
Whatever happens in the plot (after B.O. confrontation for example), at the first case we usually see some connection, but then later, we're back to the usual cases.
If something major happened in the plot (like Gin discovering Conan's identity), the status quo will break and either the series will have to either be soon resolved, or develop a new status quo (which in DC's case after all this time would be impossible).

Now we're back to ShinRan. My point after all of this is that ShinRan isn't that boring as it may seem. It's just a side-effect due to the status quo and the length of the show. evidantly, ALL the plot-related characters in DC are really short-termed also because of the length of the series. Eisuke for example (while the possibility exists that he may come back) was only used for the Kir arc. Araide was mostly used only for the Vermouth arc. Even Haibara lately starts to seem a bit boring, simply because when Gosho created her, he only had in mind what he needed her for (probably the Vermouth arc) and nothing beyond. Also Vermouth, a main villain before, but now just a minor B.O. member.
Once these characters were used for their intended plot-points, there is nothing more to do with them, and now, Haibara is suffering from it and she doesn't become that much interesting. Sorry to say this, but in the current arc she doesn't have any use besides telling Conan that Okiya is probably from the B.O.

Bottom line, the one in fault for making ShinRan seem boring for some people is not Gosho, but actually the fans who like the series so much, so Gosho needs to continue it. The only bad thing Gosho did was probably trapping himself inside this certain status quo, but then again, it works for him pretty well and without this status quo, DC wouldn't have been the same.
It did cause some inconsistancy and changing Ran's personality as well (for better or worse, you decide), but it may be because Gosho is tired of the series already.

With this issue covered (YEAH I'M NOT DONE YET  ;D) Here is the second reason why I prefer ShinRan over AiCon. What did this couple need to exist in the first place?
DC has realistic settings and the essence of ShinRan is fairly realistic. (growing together and eventually falling in love). The only thing they needed is to confess to each other that they love each other. The most unrealistic thing in the series (the drug) partly took care of that when Ran told Conan that she loved Shinichi in the second episode. I say partly because the love was already there before the drug. The relationship could have worked even without the B.O.
AiCon however is the exact opposite. In order for Ai and Conan to meet, there was a need of an evil secret organization, an unrealistic drug, and the survival (and shrinking) of both Conan and Ai from the drug (and some other stuff like Shinichi encountering Gin in the first episode but that's fairly minor compared to the other stuff).

In fiction, nothing is a coincidence (since the writer means for it to happen), but compared to ShinRan, AiCon needed much more (including the most unrealistic elements of DC).

simply due to the fact that AiCon needed so much things to happen in order to exist, I don't see it as such a great couple.

Ok, that's the last time I'm gonna write a long post and waste 1 hour of my life. I guess for this special occasion (haven't had homework in years, so I guess I needed something else to do to avoid it), I allowed it to myself.

Just like i said, we have a lot of time to kill xD LOL ..... WOW, idk how u guys do to write so much xD (Maybe it's just that English isn't my original Language)

[Kor]

Just like i said, we have a lot of time to kill xD LOL ..... WOW, idk how u guys do to write so much xD (Maybe it's just that English isn't my original Language)

English isn't my original language as well, but I wrote a novel (in english) so I got used to write a lot.

[Conia]

Nice post Kor! You have made it into the Long Pusts Academy

Regarding the post: I didn't encounter something that I'd like to discuss, therefore I agree with all of it

[kirite]

Awesome post Kor!  That was an interesting I think your reasoning is very valid.  Thanks for taking the time to write that <3.

Since I just got back to Canada and need to practice my English I'll write one too ^^.  I have a weird way of saying things, I hope you don't mind me language.


For me I'm not a fan of any couple in particular though my main couple is RanxAi as many of you should have the unfortunate experience of me shoving it into your face and forcing you to digest it <3.

But yes this is the ShinRan thread so I'll tell you why I like ShinRan.  And maybe I'll talk about ConanAi too even though it's off topic.

I like Shinichi and Ran because they're childhood friends and can actually act their age around each other.  I can picture their dynamic being a very comfortable one.  Both Shinichi and Ran has this ridiculous "super nice and perfect" streak around people.  But while they're together though they can poke fun at each other, make fun of each other, insult each other, threaten to break poles (Ran), or bring up embarrassing childhood memories of each other.  It's just great seeing "Miss angel Ran" being a bit mean and "Mr. perfect Shinichi" being the perverted 17 year old detective nerd he is (he looked under Ran's skirt lol).  

I also like how they like each other over a period of time, especially through the difficult years where everyone act like bastards.  Shinichi and Ran have seen each other's flaws, yet manage to stay best friends/ secret crushes.  It's also kinda cool how we saw "the moment" where Ran started to think of Shinichi as being cool and not her weirdo best friend.  It's not love at first sight, it's "hey this wierdo is not so bad" to "omfg this bastard has been pissing me off constantly for 17 years but I love him anyways".

I love how they're afraid to lose each other so they act protective and jealous over each other.  The image of Ran kicking down a door while chasing down Shinichi in his Conan form is just hillarious to me xD.  The image of Shinichi flipping out when Ran does something dangerous is funny too (I'm so sadistic).  They're willing to go far to keep each other.  I like that honesty and the drive.  

Lastly I love how they care for each other and how they put each other over themselves.  It's just great seeing two people caring about each other so much.  Gives me warm fuzzies, which is saying something because I don't usually feel anything in my small rotten uncaring heart.

[Misztina]

@xGinx: You just had to quote the entire thing. ... Oh well.

@Kor: When you say UsagixMamoru couple, which version are you talking about? The manga or anime?

ShinRan is indeed logical as you say, although this doesn't mean that ShinichixShiho would be that unrealistic. It seems to me a typical shoujo pair meeting, when I look at ShinichixShiho (CoAi is shorter, but more disturbing), so I think the source of ShinxShiho fandom is also this "shoujoness". You know it is kinda like the "magic of the new" thing.
By the way he gets more and more intimidate with Haibara, which may lead to some misunderstandings between him and Ran.

It was a very nice word you used "status-quo". This isn't an American show where there are twists and couples come and go in every 4 episodes .

[Kor]

@Kor: When you say UsagixMamoru couple, which version are you talking about? The manga or anime?

the anime. Never found a place to read the entire manga.

The sailor moon romance isn't so realistic (in their former lives, they met on the moon  ), but considering the settings of the series, I think the romance and love itself are fine (and fun on occasions)

[Conia]

But while they're together though they can poke fun at each other, make fun of each other, insult each other, threaten to break poles (Ran), or bring up embarrassing childhood memories of each other.  It's just great seeing "Miss angel Ran" being a bit mean and "Mr. perfect Shinichi" being the perverted 17 year old detective nerd he is (he looked under Ran's skirt lol).  

I love how they're afraid to lose each other so they act protective and jealous over each other.  The image of Ran kicking down a door while chasing down Shinichi in his Conan form is just hillarious to me xD.  The image of Shinichi flipping out when Ran does something dangerous is funny too (I'm so sadistic).  They're willing to go far to keep each other.  I like that honesty and the drive.  

Totally support this 2 paragraphs

[Detective Prince]

Oh god what's up with the Godzilla sized posts I ain't reading all that

[Conia]

Oh god what's up with the Godzilla sized posts I ain't reading all that

Lucky you didn't participate in the early AiCon thread

[soratothamax]

As I said, I'm not a fan of any couple, but ShinRan is my preferred one if I had to choose between AiCon and ShinRan, mainly because it's canon, but also for several reasons which I'm going to say now.

First of all, their love is innocent and simple, much like Usagi and Mamoru from Sailor Moon. I don't know why I liked that relationship so much, but maybe it's because a romance like that isn't so common in our world, but yet possible if two people really love each other so much.

And see I prefer Seiya and Usagi  ....Yes, it would seem I don't like canon couples.  The only canon couple that I can say that I've liked in a SHOJO or SHONEN is Sakura and Syaoran from Cardcaptor Sakura. I guess it's because they developed for entertainment purposes, and unlike normal romances, it took them a while to see the other's potential, which I think is more real to me. That strong development is what I need in order to keep my interest, otherwise I'm going on to the next best thing. I need to know that someone has changed from the person they were, that includes broadening their horizons and meeting other people. When you've always been around one person and have only known one person, how are you to know if anyone else is better for you? How are you to know what you need? And how can you grow from different experiences with different partners? you are simply loving one because you always have, instead of loving one because out of all the people you've tried to date that one was the best. It makes it seem more like an obligation than true love. So it is preferred to me. And yes, though Sakura and Syaoran is very sweet, it isn't idealistic in the fact that neither ended up with the people they initially loved. It left room for rejection on either side, rejection of others in order to find the right mate. Even though Sakura was so perfect and so cute and so popular, the "flaw" of her character was that she didn't get the guy she loved, showing that even she doesn't get everything she wanted. But she realized the one that she didn't love was the best one for her. It showed that even with all her perfections and strength, no one could control the heart. It also showed the realism that everyone we love in this world may not always love us in return, which is the realism of my own world. It may not be anyone else's experience. Some people may have had the people they loved loved them in return. The fact that it doesn't exist in this world often makes it less than realistic. What does exist in this world is the fact that romances like RanShin and UsagiMamu don't exist in this world, it is idealistic, because it is preferred but not common in the world. To me, realism has victories and disappointments, but with ShinRan I only see Victories with just about ANYTHING they do.

For the first one who says "it's for people who believe in fairy tales" then let me explain why ShinichiXRan (or UsagiXMamoru) just can't be categorized in the section of fairy tales romances. THE COUPLE IS REASONABLE. The fairy tales couples don't make much sense since they are usually loves at first sights and even without knowing each other, they fall in love immediately for no reason whatsoever.
With Shinichi and Ran it's simply not the case. They knew each other for most of their life so there is a lot of sense in why they love each other.

About Sora's post in the AiCon thread with all that psychology stuff, while it was a bit interesting, I have to declare myself as the example for why the idea of "the passemistic people like AiCon more" doesn't apply for everyone.
As far as I concern myself, I'm THE most passemistic man in the planet (at least I was. Now I'm not as bad as I used to be) and I'm not a fan of AiCon. I can see Haibara has feelings for him, but I don't see this couple any more appealing than any other couple in the series. (In all truth though, no member of this forum can be too passemistic because......he's in this forum).
Yes, Haibara is my favorite character in the series, and I can't use the reason that she was the plot bringer because I started watching straight from episode 129, so reading about her personality in wikipedia did encourage me to like her, but the biggest reason why I started and like Haibara is because I'm a huge fan of the "turn a character from an adult to a child" concept (which is a concept also used in my novel, though mind you, it's not a rip from DC because that concept was in my mind since childhood. If I need to say from where I remember it first, it would probably be the Power Rangers). True, we had Conan, but watching the german dub a few years prior discouraged me to watch the series, and I only really got into anime last year and out of all the characters, Haibara seemed the most interesting.

I agree, you can be a very pessimistic personality and like Shin/Ran, but it all depends on your views of pessimism, and how you live your life around it. You are an idealist, as you've said before. you are optimistic about human individuality, and human potential, and you put your faith in human science. With that being said, though you are a realistic, straightforward, and sarcastic person, your inner core being doesn't come off totally pessimistic on this board (I don't know how you are in your day-to-day, but yea). Though you might see the world in a negative light, you also have your ways on how to improve it. You also see that there exist a "good" and a "bad" way. For instance, 'RanShin are the good romance because it is innocent'. You recognize that that romance isn't negative. Whereas a truly pessimistic person would think "It can't be all that good" and see flaws in it. A truly pessimistic person nitices that there is bad and good in everything, no matter how modest it seems.

I don't think it's "fairy tale" or totallyunrealistic, as it can exist in small amounts but idealistic. Meaning it is the "ideal" romance for many people. Everybody wants the person they love to love them back and be totally into them and no one else. Everybody wants a lover/spouse to do everything for them, have good intentions, and do sweet things. Everyone wants a girl who is beautiful, nurturing, and has a balance of feminine and masculine. Every woman wants a man who is masculine, works hard, and is confident, but also does sweet things for them. That's ideal. But not entirely the realism of this world.

I will say that there are some SUPERBLY optimistic AiCon fans. In order to have faith in such a romance, you have to have a sense of optimism, even more than Ran Shin fans, because everyone knows AiCon is non-canon and not meant to progress. So anyone who puts faith The person who realizes they won't last because this is Gosho's story is realistic...which can come off as pessimistic.

Now why do many people like Haibara? I'm going to put the passemism aside here. for those who started from episode 1 (aka the normal people  :P), most of the characters became pretty boring and there wasn't much plot. But then Haibara came who didn't only have quite a different personality from most of the characters, she also brought the plot with her. I think that's one of the major reasons why many people like Ai a lot.

Many people claim how boring ShinRan is, however there is a problem here. DC, like most manga, was never intended to be 700+ chapters. The reason why ShinRan may seem boring is because it didn't develop much, but there isn't much to develop to begin with, since they pretty much loved each other from the start. The idea of this couple is based on the inability to be together (Shinichi being turned to Conan, so they can't be together until he finds a cure and takes down the B.O.).
Actually, in many shows we have the same problem, and since TV shows can be canceled easilly, the writers usually write for a short-lived series.
Let's take Friends for example. How many times can Rachel be with Ross? It was obvious from the early days that the two would end up together, but the show was popular, so they the network didn't want it to end, so it had to continue and break the couple and then pair them again. It became boring eventually, but it's our fault that we liked the show so much that they had to continue it.
Another example is Scrubs. We also knew that Eliot and J.D. were going to end up together, but again, the show was popular, so they couldn't conclude it. True, in the last season of Scrubs (with the regular cast, not the new one) Eliot and J.D. were pretty much together from the start, but that was when it was fairly certain that there won't be another season with most of the regular cast (J.D. and Eliot for that matter).
There is a question though regarding these two examples. Why didn't the writers pair the couple together and that's it? surely the series could go on and the two would be together to the end of the show? The answer is actually fairly simple - if the one thing that didn't resolve itself, resolved itself, there is no reason to continue the story, since the story was over. They could make episodes with their daily conflicts and insert whatever jokes they wanted, but if they were together, there was just no more story to tell. In other words - the status quo.
A series with a more visible status quo is Smallville. Until the fifth season, the status quo of the show was that there is some sort of a conflict, and Clark has to solve it and hide his secret from anyone (Pete knew from the second season, but it didn't affect the series as much as it did when Chloe got to know Clark's secret). Occasionally one of the characters was close to figure Clark's secret but he always managed to fool that character into believing otherwise. The main idea of the Clark+Lana (though in the last season it became Lois) is that until he doesn't reveal his secret, they can't be together happily and indeed only in the seventh season they were together, but later they broke up again. That's what in most of these shows the writers do. They pair the main couple together, but since they can't resolve this couple fully (because the main couple usually gets their "happily ever after" only at the end of the series), the writers later break the couple again only to pair him up later. Yeah, in the Clark+Lana it should be noted that Lana's actress left the series, so they had to break up anyway and the writers real intention was probably to pair Clark with Lois eventually (which was kinda obvious since she was introduced). Smallville though is a great example for status quo and a show like Conan. Smallville originally was supposed to be the "adventures of young Clark Kent" yet our "young Clark" isn't so young anymore and he even got to the daily planet (wasn't that when Superman should have entered the picture as well?). The series became popular so it had to go on.
I can think of many other examples. in the end of the season 1 of Gossip Girl (I saw some episodes because there was nothing else to watch on TV in that slot), everything seemed to be resolved at the end, yet at the final scenes, all the characters (as idiots as they apparently were) decided to destroy what they built up through the season (therefore reopening the conflicts or creating new conflicts for the next season). Again, the show was popular, so the conflicts couldn't be resolved at the end of season 1

So after all of this, we are back DC. DC is a show with a visible status quo. Every 3 files (usually) we have a new case and whatever happens in it, it doesn't affect the plot too much. Every once in awhile, we have some appearance of the plot, but even so, it won't affect the status quo (not for long at least). The longest time where the status quo was broken was in the desperate revival arc.
Whatever happens in the plot (after B.O. confrontation for example), at the first case we usually see some connection, but then later, we're back to the usual cases.
If something major happened in the plot (like Gin discovering Conan's identity), the status quo will break and either the series will have to either be soon resolved, or develop a new status quo (which in DC's case after all this time would be impossible).

Now we're back to ShinRan. My point after all of this is that ShinRan isn't that boring as it may seem. It's just a side-effect due to the status quo and the length of the show. evidantly, ALL the plot-related characters in DC are really short-termed also because of the length of the series. Eisuke for example (while the possibility exists that he may come back) was only used for the Kir arc. Araide was mostly used only for the Vermouth arc. Even Haibara lately starts to seem a bit boring, simply because when Gosho created her, he only had in mind what he needed her for (probably the Vermouth arc) and nothing beyond. Also Vermouth, a main villain before, but now just a minor B.O. member.
Once these characters were used for their intended plot-points, there is nothing more to do with them, and now, Haibara is suffering from it and she doesn't become that much interesting. Sorry to say this, but in the current arc she doesn't have any use besides telling Conan that Okiya is probably from the B.O.

See, to me it's the "status quo" thing that makes things boring. It's the reason I'm not into as many canon romances, unless the romances truly surprise me. The parallel of the "status quo" between many shows is what makes it seem boring, because it exists among too many other stories, with similar outcome, and so no unpredictability within the romances. Of course, you're right about the story not being planned to expand beyond a certain amount of episodes, which is the cause of it all. But within a small amount of episodes, ShinRan didn't develop even in that. From the beginning of the series, the ending of their relationship was evident, and everyone knew they would confess their love and end up together in the end by the second episode. You are right, many of the characters are getting more boring and losing their roles, even Ai. But the canon romance's predictability ended with the second episode, leaving no room for variety or development. If they had stopped loving one another, and decided to "break up" and date other people, then it would leave variety, even if it did fall down into boredom later in the series. At least, the boredom would've come towards the end of the series. But because it is obvious that without fail this couple will always be a couple no matter what, there is no room for variety, thus boredom.

Bottom line, the one in fault for making ShinRan seem boring for some people is not Gosho, but actually the fans who like the series so much, so Gosho needs to continue it. The only bad thing Gosho did was probably trapping himself inside this certain status quo, but then again, it works for him pretty well and without this status quo, DC wouldn't have been the same.
It did cause some inconsistancy and changing Ran's personality as well (for better or worse, you decide), but it may be because Gosho is tired of the series already.

True true so very true.  Fans are the driving force in many stories. It's so interesting how they can sway an author to do certain things....of course, CLAMP doesn't seem to have that same problem...then again, CLAMP is not a normal group...

With this issue covered (YEAH I'M NOT DONE YET  ;D) Here is the second reason why I prefer ShinRan over AiCon. What did this couple need to exist in the first place?
DC has realistic settings and the essence of ShinRan is fairly realistic. (growing together and eventually falling in love). The only thing they needed is to confess to each other that they love each other. The most unrealistic thing in the series (the drug) partly took care of that when Ran told Conan that she loved Shinichi in the second episode. I say partly because the love was already there before the drug. The relationship could have worked even without the B.O.
AiCon however is the exact opposite. In order for Ai and Conan to meet, there was a need of an evil secret organization, an unrealistic drug, and the survival (and shrinking) of both Conan and Ai from the drug (and some other stuff like Shinichi encountering Gin in the first episode but that's fairly minor compared to the other stuff).

In fiction, nothing is a coincidence (since the writer means for it to happen), but compared to ShinRan, AiCon needed much more (including the most unrealistic elements of DC).

simply due to the fact that AiCon needed so much things to happen in order to exist, I don't see it as such a great couple.

Ok, that's the last time I'm gonna write a long post and waste 1 hour of my life. I guess for this special occasion (haven't had homework in years, so I guess I needed something else to do to avoid it), I allowed it to myself.

I think that in my opinion, AiCon needing so many things to make it happen shows it's connection to the story, not the story's connection to it. Since this is a story moreso surrounding mysteries instead of romance, I think a romance would be needed to fit the plot, instead of the plot weaving around to fit the romance.....unless this story is really meant to be a romance story and we don't know it.  If this story was centered around ShinRan or AiCon and was called "Love" or "Never-Ending Love" or something like that, I would want the story to focus on that kind of romance, and drop the unnecessary cases, unless those cases are made to improve the romance. But this story is about mysteries, and the main focus of the plot is the BO. Because shinRan doesn't need the main plot or story, but is added in anyway not adding to the plot or taking away from it, it makes it seem out of place, and just a story totally different from the main theme or plot of the story. It makes it seem as if there are two plots, which can confuse the story. Every story's characters need to connect to the main plot somehow, and the romance that derives from the plot, and is dependent on the main plot seems to connect to the main story, creating less confusion and makes the story run much smoother . The romance that disconnects itself from the whole purpose of the story, and creates it's own purpose, disconnects the story.

That's just my interpretation. yours makes plenty of sense as well, and I have a better understanding of the ShinRan romance.

RanShin is a simple romance. It isn't meant to be involved or complex, which might detract the story if it was...or might not. I can't really say.  All I can say is some people like the simple, innocent, and sweeter form of love. And others like the complex and plot-involved form.

[soratothamax]

Awesome post Kor!  That was an interesting I think your reasoning is very valid.  Thanks for taking the time to write that <3.

Since I just got back to Canada and need to practice my English I'll write one too ^^.  I have a weird way of saying things, I hope you don't mind me language.


For me I'm not a fan of any couple in particular though my main couple is RanxAi as many of you should have the unfortunate experience of me shoving it into your face and forcing you to digest it <3.

But yes this is the ShinRan thread so I'll tell you why I like ShinRan.  And maybe I'll talk about ConanAi too even though it's off topic.

I like Shinichi and Ran because they're childhood friends and can actually act their age around each other.  I can picture their dynamic being a very comfortable one.  Both Shinichi and Ran has this ridiculous "super nice and perfect" streak around people.  But while they're together though they can poke fun at each other, make fun of each other, insult each other, threaten to break poles (Ran), or bring up embarrassing childhood memories of each other.  It's just great seeing "Miss angel Ran" being a bit mean and "Mr. perfect Shinichi" being the perverted 17 year old detective nerd he is (he looked under Ran's skirt lol).  

I also like how they like each other over a period of time, especially through the difficult years where everyone act like bastards.  Shinichi and Ran have seen each other's flaws, yet manage to stay best friends/ secret crushes.  It's also kinda cool how we saw "the moment" where Ran started to think of Shinichi as being cool and not her weirdo best friend.  It's not love at first sight, it's "hey this wierdo is not so bad" to "omfg this bastard has been pissing me off constantly for 17 years but I love him anyways".

I love how they're afraid to lose each other so they act protective and jealous over each other.  The image of Ran kicking down a door while chasing down Shinichi in his Conan form is just hillarious to me xD.  The image of Shinichi flipping out when Ran does something dangerous is funny too (I'm so sadistic).  They're willing to go far to keep each other.  I like that honesty and the drive.  

Lastly I love how they care for each other and how they put each other over themselves.  It's just great seeing two people caring about each other so much.  Gives me warm fuzzies, which is saying something because I don't usually feel anything in my small rotten uncaring heart.

wow...so impressive! almost converted me! ......Almost....

[ziraulo]

*stares at posts in awe* Whoa....

Yoru: (drunk with lampshade cover on head) Horray for the Godzilla posts!!!!

@ soratothemax

I get your point. I don't think we have any permanent love interests in life...until we got married, at least. Also, most childhood friendships don't last that long anymore these days. But hey, there are still a certain few who have that kind of love story!

and of course we have time to kill! Especially here in the Philippines. It's summer. 

...Unfortunately, it's also insanely hot in here and we haven't gone to the beach or to the pool..yet.

[RedPoppy]

@kor, kirite: I totally agree with you, guys~!!!
Shinichi and Ran aren't unrealistic couple which won't ever occur in normal life. That's not true. I've a friend who has a boyfriend. They've known each other since many years, but suddenly they fell in love at last. Now they're like old marriage couple, their relationship is calm and full of harmony, even when they quarrel, they always find a way to satisfy both sides. My friend feels that she can rely on him anytime. For me it's just fantastic when you and your precious person are friends and after some time you start dating. In DC there're a lot of couples which are childhood friends, but they haven't that simple romance as Shinichi and Ran.

Besides, we can think that ShinXRan is just too perfect, but we didn't get many files when we could see their normal life, quarrels, behaviour like in cases about other couples (except SonokoxKyogoku, that's why we know a lof of Sonoko's bad points, but not that much about Kyogoku, only that he's a bloody samurai). But even if we see them in Shinichi's First Case, Heiji's Memories, New York Case etc., they don't look like perfect couple, but normal teenage friends. We can find them very boring, but in normal life you would like to have a friend who calls you 'idiot' when you lose your wallet or quarrel with you how to eat an egg?? Shinichi and Ran have good and bad points, but mostly are really harmonic, that's why everyone call them a marriage couple. I don't think it's something bad. It doesn't mean that after so many years they don't care about each other - just see how they behad when they're jealous, angry or worried (I love that moments~!!  ). In critical moments, they're very dynamic, agressive and possesive, so their love is actually hot, it makes them mad. Isn't it incredible transformation when a calm, kind girl suddenly becomes agressive monster (omg, like Hulk~!) when there's something wrong with her (boy)friend?? 

[randompi314159]

@Kor
Wow, that was long, lol. Though I agree with all your points actually. Though my logic behind it seems a little lame when compared to that, which would be since the author, in this case Gosho, wrote it in such a way, why fight it? And that's pretty lame and allows no room for creativity, but that's just how I think. Though, if needed, I could explain with better reasoning,just not with as much insight as others.