Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

[vaibhavgupte]

There was no video of Masumi online. Only of Heiji with Shinichi.......
(So this Masumi argument is plain wrong.)

.yes. correct. I forgot this point.
and other which is I forgot is tsutomu
doesnt even know he has a daughter .
since she was in womb.
so this arguement is baseless
even if sera was present in some video shot not
shown to us.
.

[Reader]

So this Spiritual person is someone sent by Gosho to throw us off the track. Interesting...

[Spiritual]

There was no video of Masumi online. Only of Heiji with Shinichi.......
(So this Masumi argument is plain wrong.)

.yes. correct. I forgot this point.
and other which is I forgot is tsutomu
doesnt even know he has a daughter .
since she was in womb.
so this arguement is baseless
even if sera was present in some video shot not
shown to us.
.

There is an argument because you started to make it sound like an argument. There actually was a video of Masumi. It was Shinichi, Heiji, the Squirrel Detective and guess who else, Masumi. It was the news online and behind the female reporter are them. Sera with blonde hair is like a high school girl Mary. Now Mary being Tsutomu's wife. Don't tell me he wouldn't recognize his wife or at least
a look alike of his wife. It is Tsutomu who we are talking about here. Probably up there with Yusaku when it comes to the brilliance of mind though i have never really seen it. All i know is his involvment in Haneda case. But i assume being the Akai father. He is at Yusaku level. And i never knew if Tsutomu was aware or not that Mary was carrying a baby before he left them, from what i remember it was mentioned in the Wizard of the Ripples that Mary has a "bump" before Shuichi went abroad to study. So probably Tsutomu knows that there is a baby on the way.



Watch ep 941-942. The video is there about the report of Kudo being alive I have images to share but idk how to post it. Teach me how to post images. I'm new here.

Thanks for the very warm welcome.

[andi2ews]

After rewatching some anime episodes(941-942) i have eliminated Kuroda Hyoue from being a Rum suspect. First of all, I would say it is better to see movements of a character than not (anime over manga) when it comes to observation. Kuroda was the only one of the 3 Rum suspects who was very surprised when checking about Kudo Shinichi news online being alive. If you would make a thorough observation, his face (Kuroda) when he saw the video of Kudou online. He was really surprised or excited/shocked (based on the anime). It wasn't because of Kudo, but because of Sera Masumi. Yes! Sera was in he video posted online. Kuroda's daughter, who he immediately recognized after realizing the resemblance between him and her. Watch the whole episode. Until 942. Watch the end when the Kudo family fan took back what she said,(bribed by an autograph from Kudo parents). "It was just an illusion". And Heiji told the media that it was Okita, not Shinichi. Look at Kuroda's face of all the 3 Rum suspects when they all read he latest update online. Kuroda was the only one who kind of smiled looking at his phone. My assumption being Kuroda looking at Sera, her daughter on the video online. Thinking she was that baby in the womb when i left my family....

This is all for now.
From a new member.
Hello everyone.. i have more to share. I would like to hear from you guys first about my post before i make my next post about Wakita.

PS
i haven't read all pages of this thread. Too lazy to do it. So in case there's a theory like mine. I am sorry for repeating.
Like i said, i am too lazy to read all pages.

tsutomu can't recognize Sera cause he didnt know about her existence. It was told by Mary to Vermouth in recent chapters, and for this reason Mary discovered Vermouth' disguise

[vaibhavgupte]

There was no video of Masumi online. Only of Heiji with Shinichi.......
(So this Masumi argument is plain wrong.)

.yes. correct. I forgot this point.
and other which is I forgot is tsutomu
doesnt even know he has a daughter .
since she was in womb.
so this arguement is baseless
even if sera was present in some video shot not
shown to us.
.

There is an argument because you started to make it sound like an argument. There actually was a video of Masumi. It was Shinichi, Heiji, the Squirrel Detective and guess who else, Masumi. It was the news online and behind the female reporter are them. Sera with blonde hair is like a high school girl Mary. Now Mary being Tsutomu's wife. Don't tell me he wouldn't recognize his wife or at least
a look alike of his wife. It is Tsutomu who we are talking about here. Probably up there with Yusaku when it comes to the brilliance of mind though i have never really seen it. All i know is his involvment in Haneda case. But i assume being the Akai father. He is at Yusaku level. And i never knew if Tsutomu was aware or not that Mary was carrying a baby before he left them, from what i remember it was mentioned in the Wizard of the Ripples that Mary has a "bump" before Shuichi went abroad to study. So probably Tsutomu knows that there is a baby on the way.



Watch ep 941-942. The video is there about the report of Kudo being alive I have images to share but idk how to post it. Teach me how to post images. I'm new here.

Thanks for the very warm welcome.

actually the manga and anime have slight differences.
the manga is what counts coz its written by gosho.
anime may have some changes. but that are just for
entertainment not related to story.
in manga I checked today that in the video online
in the case you are talking, it was only heiji and shinichi
not sera.
so even if its in anime ( I havent checked) it doesnt count
coz its not written by gosho.

And based on your posts I am referring that you have
watched only anime recent chapters not manga cases
which havent yet animated in anime.
so many things here will be spoiler for you.
like the fact that tsutomu doesnt know about sera
is revealed in manga chapters 1047 to 1050.
sister birthday case.
which isnt animated yet.

I prefer you read till current manga chapter .
otherwise you will get spoiled unnecessarily on many
interesting happenings and
wont understand many things in this discussion ( currently 10th unanimated case is going on in manga ,
so anime is quite behind the manga, approx 2 years)

[vaibhavgupte]

hello guys.
I so far believed that kuroda is rum.
but I would like to change my opinion considering
following things.
In the song named asaca case as I have already discussed
in 1051-1054 discussion.
based on uncanny resembance of victim to kohji haneda
and suspects of three official rum suspects,

I concluded that as wakita lookalike suspect
was reporter looking for truth about kohji lookalike victim
just like tsutomu digging for truth in kohji case,
and also that wakita
lookalike wore tsutomu like hat. I concluded that
wakita is tsutomu

That rumi lookalike suspect tried to camouflage
kohji lookalike suicide as murder comitted by her.
they were lovers.
thus I conclude that kohji haneda comitted suicide
and rumi tried to camouflage his suicide as murder
by including his name in aptx victims list.
ths is red herring of volume 18 imo.
I still cant concretely say whether rumi is good or bad
as she is so confusing .
but doesnt seem rum to
me atleast.
adding another vermouth
like top member
to bo just seems to question how it managed to be hidden
so far.
so rumi who loved kohji dont seem rum to me.
though she and even kohji can still be bo.
but nothing concrete about her affiliations.

The additional thing I would like to point is kuroda.
I was pointing him as rum based on how he was director
of shady music company.
but it was not confirmed in that case that the music company was shady.
it was only stated that kohji lookalike victim was
caught taking drugs earlier with another band member.
this makes his band shady.
also rumi lookalike was his manager and lover.
this hints that kohji and rumi could be bo.
not neccessarily kuroda.

Also it was mentioned that kohji lookalike had a relationship
with kuroda lookalike. that relationship wasnt specified.
as mohammed ebrahem in this forum, suggested
that kuroda could be kohji father.
now this definitely looks logical which I woud like to conclude from this foreshadowing.
I mean just think of this possibility that kuroda is kohji father and you will realise that
kohji and kuroda both have pointed hair with
small thorny spikes. also their face structure looks similar.

Also now if you assume that kuroda is not rum
then it makes sense that kuroda was trying to read
the dying message as asaca rum and not karasuma
which rum would likely do. so kuroda just may not be rum.
thus he was triggered by name rumi wakasa.
he obviously knows her as his son's lover
and probably ( not 100 % sure) even kuroda loves wakasa
as hinted by that song named asaca case kuroda lookalike.
till now nothing too new yet.

Now by assuming this theory that kuroda is kohji father
just recall the case where kuroda recalled kohji lying
on floor .there was no blood on kohji
and someone in this forum
( I dont remember their name )
suggested that this means kuroda was present before
kohji died on crime scene thus making kuroda kohji's
murderer and thus rum.
but what if this memory of kuroda is not from
crime day and memory of some earlier time
when kuroda had fight with his son kohji .
and as a proof of this,
in song named asaca case , the kuroda lookalike
and kohji lookalike had fight on some day way before
kohji lookalike death day.
so looks like all this is fitting together.
so this foreshadowing makes kuroda being kohji father
a realistic possibility.

considering the amount of similarity between three
suspects in "song named asaca case" and rum suspects
and similarity between kohji haneda and victim
from this case , and also the fact that this case is in kohji haneda arc, gosho definitely made this resemblance
as foreshadowing for rum suspects.

but actual thing is that gosho made this resemblance
with rum suspects here but there was no characteristic
of rum hinted in song named asaca case.
so then I realised I have to scout another case for
clue about rum identity.
Then I found a case where
a specific rum characteristic was referred and from
the culprit of this case was hinting very suttlely
to one of our rum suspects .
I will explain this in next post.

[Mohamed Ebrahem]

Well done vaibhavgupte

I liked your idea that Kuroda might fight with his son Haneda on a day before day Haneda died , but what annoys me most about that conclusion is Haneda in Kuroda’s imagination was wearing shogi clothes , why was he wearing shogi clothes at home Or do you think this is normal for a person like Koji that he always wears shogi clothes and why in your opinion did he fight with Kuroda ?

For Kuroda's age , it has been announced that he is 50 years old .
If I remember well , there are two episodes in which Kuroda appeared and the murderer was 30 years old , and then it turned out that she was 35 years old , this may be a hint that Kuroda is older than the age that was announced but it is not necessary that he is five years older as the murderer in that case , Goshu isn't clear that way , he gives you part of the truth in the hints , I mean the hint that Kuroda is older than the age announced but not 5 years , so I think the real Kuroda's age is 60 years , it is possible that it was not calculated The years of coma , and when Wakasa Rumi said in her first appearance that she was 10 years older than Kobayashi , I think this is a real hint of Kuroda's age being ten years older than the one announced .

I am excited to read your next conclusion about RUM , but do not tell me that Rum is not a Chikara Katsumata because I am very sure that Chikara Katsumata is Karasuma Renya and is RUM .

[vaibhavgupte]

Well done vaibhavgupte

I liked your idea that Kuroda might fight with his son Haneda on a day before day Haneda died , but what annoys me most about that conclusion is Haneda in Kuroda’s imagination was wearing shogi clothes , why was he wearing shogi clothes at home Or do you think this is normal for a person like Koji that he always wears shogi clothes and why in your opinion did he fight with Kuroda ?

For Kuroda's age , it has been announced that he is 50 years old .
If I remember well , there are two episodes in which Kuroda appeared and the murderer was 30 years old , and then it turned out that she was 35 years old , this may be a hint that Kuroda is older than the age that was announced but it is not necessary that he is five years older as the murderer in that case , Goshu isn't clear that way , he gives you part of the truth in the hints , I mean the hint that Kuroda is older than the age announced but not 5 years , so I think the real Kuroda's age is 60 years , it is possible that it was not calculated The years of coma , and when Wakasa Rumi said in her first appearance that she was 10 years older than Kobayashi , I think this is a real hint of Kuroda's age being ten years older than the one announced .

I am excited to read your next conclusion about RUM , but do not tell me that Rum is not a Chikara Katsumata because I am very sure that Chikara Katsumata is Karasuma Renya and is RUM .

That kohji clothes problem doesnt seem a big deal.
I dont know about kuroda age change issue.

Regarding rum being chikara possible but not probable imo.
he still is a valid karasuma renya candidate imo.
but I believe karasuma isnt rum.

[Mohamed Ebrahem]

I am talking about the Kuroda's age because some say that Kuroda can't be the father of Kohji because it indicates that Kuroda married when he was 13 , so I said the age of Kuroda is bigger than what shown to us in Kuroda identification card .

Many of the characters in Anime Conan are talking about Karasuma such as Wakasa, Yusaku, Subaru , Conan and also Haibara , so I want to tell you that we are in Arc Karasuma but with his new code name "Rum" in the organisation , and his new social identity is Chikara Katsumata .

Goshu gave us a hint that Rum is the former owner of the organization , in the crime scene case similar to what happened 17 years ago " episodes 861 862 " . the job of the murderer , Senba is an owner of a pastry shop , so the hint is "former" word .

As for the three suspects of Rum , did you see Haibara's reaction in movie 20 when she got close to Curacao . Curacao is just subordinate to RUM . So what about the feeling that would happen to Haibara if she met Rum himself ?
So Wakasa and Kuroda are excluded . As for Wakita , I can say that he is not Rum due to his actions and also I don't think that Goshu will repeat the same as done in Arc Bourbon .

For the red herring that you refer to in volume 18 :
I had told you to review the case in which Haibara mentioned the three Rum descriptions in episodes 792 793 , I have read the chapters on that case about two weeks ago and I want to point out something may be important , do you remember the child who was observing the entrance because the victim ordered him to do that , this child said that those who entered the victim’s apartment : an old man , a womenly man and a strong man , so the story of this child gave many hints about Haybara and her story because Haibara also in the same two episodes said the three description of Rum as this child , I mean that This child's life will give hints about Haibara's life and also most of the time this child was hiding behind Conan just as Haibara does when she feels that someone from the organization is close to her .

As for this child , his parents were killed by some thieves who broke into his house for the purpose of theft and thieves killed his father and mother , but this child did not die because he was on a journey at the time .
the strong man tells Takagi , that the victim was writing a story called " Thieves at the end of the night " . The summary of that story is that a couple was murdered , but in the end it turned out that this couple was still alive .

Perhaps this is a hint of Goshu to drop that narration on Haibara’s life and her parents are still alive , because what also annoys me in this regard is Elena who was aware of she would be killed , so may be their death might have been faked in the end and They are alive , but perhaps Iam over thinking about that .

[Zerozaki4869]

Kuroda's memory of the corpse puts him in a precarious condition.
The lack of blood pooling under Kohji's mouth is a proof that Rumi saw Kohji after Kuroda witnessed him. It is possible that someone else killed Kohji and Kuroda saw him dying while Rumi saw him dead. Or Kuroda killed Kohji.

[vaibhavgupte]

Kuroda's memory of the corpse puts him in a precarious condition.
The lack of blood pooling under Kohji's mouth is a proof that Rumi saw Kohji after Kuroda witnessed him. It is possible that someone else killed Kohji and Kuroda saw him dying while Rumi saw him dead. Or Kuroda killed Kohji.

what if that kohji memory of kuroda isnt a corpse
but memory of beaten kohji fallen on ground from
an earlier day.
even wakasa memory in that pannel is earlier.
she looks younger.
kuroda can be acquaintance of kohji.
I believe he is father .and age difference between
kohji and kuroda,
Mohamed Ebrahem has mentioned already.

[vaibhavgupte]

I am talking about the Kuroda's age because some say that Kuroda can't be the father of Kohji because it indicates that Kuroda married when he was 13 , so I said the age of Kuroda is bigger than what shown to us in Kuroda identification card .

Many of the characters in Anime Conan are talking about Karasuma such as Wakasa, Yusaku, Subaru , Conan and also Haibara , so I want to tell you that we are in Arc Karasuma but with his new code name "Rum" in the organisation , and his new social identity is Chikara Katsumata .

Goshu gave us a hint that Rum is the former owner of the organization , in the crime scene case similar to what happened 17 years ago " episodes 861 862 " . the job of the murderer , Senba is an owner of a pastry shop , so the hint is "former" word .

As for the three suspects of Rum , did you see Haibara's reaction in movie 20 when she got close to Curacao . Curacao is just subordinate to RUM . So what about the feeling that would happen to Haibara if she met Rum himself ?
So Wakasa and Kuroda are excluded . As for Wakita , I can say that he is not Rum due to his actions and also I don't think that Goshu will repeat the same as done in Arc Bourbon .

For the red herring that you refer to in volume 18 :
I had told you to review the case in which Haibara mentioned the three Rum descriptions in episodes 792 793 , I have read the chapters on that case about two weeks ago and I want to point out something may be important , do you remember the child who was observing the entrance because the victim ordered him to do that , this child said that those who entered the victim’s apartment : an old man , a womenly man and a strong man , so the story of this child gave many hints about Haybara and her story because Haibara also in the same two episodes said the three description of Rum as this child , I mean that This child's life will give hints about Haibara's life and also most of the time this child was hiding behind Conan just as Haibara does when she feels that someone from the organization is close to her .

As for this child , his parents were killed by some thieves who broke into his house for the purpose of theft and thieves killed his father and mother , but this child did not die because he was on a journey at the time .
the strong man tells Takagi , that the victim was writing a story called " Thieves at the end of the night " . The summary of that story is that a couple was murdered , but in the end it turned out that this couple was still alive .

Perhaps this is a hint of Goshu to drop that narration on Haibara’s life and her parents are still alive , because what also annoys me in this regard is Elena who was aware of she would be killed , so may be their death might have been faked in the end and They are alive , but perhaps Iam over thinking about that .

yes age difference problem maybe like you mentioned.

chikara katsumata hasnt even appeared fully in a case.
conan hasnt even met him.
I am working on my rum theory and its looking
quite rock solid to me so far.
I am 99.99 percent convinced about rum.
I have built up on someone' s theory which I will
mention.
Regarding parallel between haibara parents and that
boys parents, both parents died.
you are saying that the author wrote they were alive.
but in reality we know that boys parents died.
same with haibara parents.
gosho has mentioned that there is absolutely no
possibility that miyanos are alive. he mentioned
in gosho talk day

[vaibhavgupte]

lets start my rum theory.
This theory starts with foreshadowing part and then
for evidence part, most of evidence are already
given in this forum. I will just add some points in this part.

Now after seeing three rum supects lookalikes appear
in song named asaca case , I was sure that in some case
regarding rum there was a culprit who hinted towards
rum suspects.


Foreshadowing part:
lets start with department store stabbing case
(manga files 939 -941)
Now this was the case in which it was inferred that
3 descrpitions could be refer a single person.
since the culprit who stabbed a guy had 3 descriptions.
and ultimately those 3 descriptions pointed to a single
person.
so this has to hint about rum where his three desciptions point out to single person.
now a consider a rum suspect ( though not among three)
that is Muga Iori, we have two decriptions of rum
from him which we have seen.
he is feminine looking obviously.
we saw in crimson school trip case that he is pretty strong.
now remains third description about him : old man.

Now MeiTanteixX from this forum has already made
a very brilliant theory about muga iori
from which right now I will just take
this part of old man useful for this foreshadowing.
I will give reference to his theory in the evidence part.
regarding old man iori , MeiTanteixX concludes
that iori has blonde hair similar to his light coloured eyebrows. this makes him old looking as japanese people generally dont have blonde hair.

So with this coming back to department store stabbing
case , the culprit who actually stabbed victim
had 3 descriptions ( Its logical to think that this guy somehow hint to some specific feature of rum)
culprit had originally black long hair and changed
hair colour to blonde hair colour.
so this guy is hinting that rum may have a changed
hair colour .
Now this hair colour change feature can has evidence currently in two rum supects: iori and kuroda.
so you will ask why doesnt he refer to kuroda??

Now come to cafe poirot case (manga 981-983).
now see the culprit of this case .he looks identical to
culprit of 939-941 case with 3 descriptions.
gosho hardly does the character repeat thing.
and guess what again this culprit is blonde hair.
and guess what this is again a stabbing case like the
939-941 case and in both stabbing cases victim survives.
there is big parallel between these 2 cases means that culprit from 939-941 hinted towards
a character introduced in its parallel case 981-983.
this introduced character is Muga Iori whom
gosho is hinting to have blonde hair and with it
3 description feature is completed.

now this foreshadowing only suggests that Muga Iori
is person with 3 descriptions similar to 939-941.
since only other person with 3 description
in rum arc is rum. its logical to guess muga iori is rum.

but lets come to a more concrete foreshadowing .
lets come to a big case .In nagano snowy mountains case
(1027-1031) , conan asks bourbon, do you know rum.
now what was need of asking bourbon there in nagano.
gosho wanted a foreshadowing here.
just look at culprit of this case.
he is resembling muga iori.
just look at him( long curly hair and light eyebrows and
same face shape as iori).
this pretty much is solid foreshadowing for me to believe
Rum is muga iori. All these
resemblance can not be coincidence.

Evidence part regarding Muga Iori in next post.

#correction : the resemblance between 939 -941 and
981-983 , hair dying case, has been already been
shown by MeiTanteixX .

# see theory of MeiTanteixX about Iori Muga on page 10, page 24 and page 36 of this rum discussion thread.
absolutely mind blowing

[Zerozaki4869]

Three/four things to remember
a) Rum suspect needs an eye issue. (Verified, that Iori has no eye issue.)
b) Rum is one among Kuroda, Wakita and Rumi. (it is the official statement from Gosho.)
c) Rum is a single person. (also official statement.)
d) Ooka family is too powerful, so they won't allow such stupidity in their household. (they can control the governor of Tokyo and has influence over the Diet members.)

[Reader]

I think the very fact that so many things could be pointed out towards Iori being Rum, makes him more of a red herring.