Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,027-1031

[Zerozaki4869]

Rum's primary target is not Kudo Shinichi.
Rum's primary target is neither Sherry.
Rum knows that Sherry was killed in the blast.

Amuro saw his gadget not Rumi, DB told Rumi about his gadgets, but again Conan himself had outlined that unless you know the effect of shrinking, it is not possible to make the deduction.
Heiji and Eisuke was lucky because Conan slipped up big-time.
He has shown no slip up regards to Rumi.

[DCUniverseAficionado]

Rum's primary target is not Kudo Shinichi.
Rum's primary target is neither Sherry.
Rum knows that Sherry was killed in the blast.

Amuro saw his gadget not Rumi, DB told Rumi about his gadgets, but again Conan himself had outlined that unless you know the effect of shrinking, it is not possible to make the deduction.
Heiji and Eisuke was lucky because Conan slipped up big-time.
He has shown no slip up regards to Rumi.

Alright... so?

Yep, he screwed up... in far less high-stakes situations.

"No one will ever make the logical leap that people can shrink unless they already knew that APTX can shrink people..." I don't buy that. All that's needed is somewhat frequent exposure to Shinichi/Conan and/or Shiho/Ai, and at least some knowledge of Shinichi Kudō and Shiho Miyano/Sherry—the former applies to Rumi, and the latter should certainly apply to Rum. Whether Shinichi/Conan personally showed Rumi the gadgets or was told about them, she knows about them, either way—yet another piece of intel on him. As for APTX—Rum should know about the incomplete detective... and I doubt that Rum wouldn't have at least some notion of the boss' goal. Now that Rum is questioning whether it does what it's supposed to do or not, I'd say Rum would be more in a position now than anyone to make the logical leap. As far as I'm concerned, if Rum is Rumi, then she should already know who they are—since she's not acting to take them out, I assume she's not Rum.

I'm not opposed at all to Kanenori ≠ Rum proposals—I just wonder if Rumi turns out to be Rum, if Gosho's simply going to reveal to us that despite Rum's proximity and intelligence, she couldn't figure Shinichi/Conan and Shiho/Ai out... in any case, I've never been more eager to find out just who Rum is. Even if I just don't expect Rumi to be Rum, I think I'd still be hyped for that turning out to be the case. Just gotta wait for that big confrontation case...

[Zerozaki4869]

No you can't use it.
Even if you have spent a great amount of time around Conan. You can't just by being around him get the idea that he is a shrunken guy.
You need more investigation and unless he slips up it will take time.
The only person as of now who is showing to prod around Conan is Rumi.
And we also got the message from Rum regarding "Kudo Shinichi."
Now interest in him is can't be purely academic for Rum, he/she can just order Gin to catch Shinichi alive.(If Rum really wants to get APTX success alive.)
But this personal investment means something else, Rum is very close to uncover Shinichi's stuff. Rum only needs some piece of info from Bourbon.
That's all.

[DCUniverseAficionado]

No you can't use it.
Even if you have spent a great amount of time around Conan. You can't just by being around him get the idea that he is a shrunken guy.
You need more investigation and unless he slips up it will take time.
That's all.

Then we agree to disagree.

That is, indeed, all.

If Rumi turns out to be Rum, though, then the concession is mine to make.

[Nemomon]

After reading the latest chapter I think:

Wakita = Rum
Kuroda = Tsutomu
Rumi = Asaka

Kuroda tells Koumei about "time is money". He wouldn't do that if he were Rum. I think he wanted Koumei to find out whether Wakita (and maybe Bourbon) will react to that words (because Rum surely will react). Which almost proves that Wakita is Rum.

Kuroda and Rumi met once. If either of them would be Rum, the probably would attack the other, because Rum is in conflict with both Tsutomu and Asaka. Also considering how Rum is impatient and ruthless, I doubt they would not attack only because there were some children in the bacground. Even if they would, I'm pretty sure they soon enough (after the children would be gone or went somewhere) would kill the other. Why they don't like each other? I think because of Kouji. Asaka was involved in his murder and Tsutomu is related to him (though Shuukichi).

EDIT:

Maybe I should add that if Kuroda would be Rum, he would order Bourbon to tell that words instead of Koumei. And even then, even if Wakita wouldn't be Rum there is a very little sense to say them to someone else (especially Asaka and Tsutomu). In fact I can't imagine what Rum would accomplish by seeing Wakita's reaction or the lack of to them (I assume Rum knows that Amuro is Bourbon, so he doesn't need to test his reaction).

I'm pretty sure Kuroda knows that Wakita is Rum, and he's using Koumei to set up a trap to catch Rum (because Rum will need to investigate why someone not related to the BO knows his catchphrase).

[Fennec]

To throw in my two cents:

Personally, I don't think Rumi is Rum. However, if ANYONE in the BO might have reason to suspect the APTX-4869 drug could shrink someone, I think it would be Rum. Almost all speculation points to it being made with the intent of creating some form of immortality or reversing or stopping aging, though it doesn't seem to be very common knowledge among the ranks. I get the sense that most of the BO doesn't know the full extent of their organization's goals, even among the higher-ranked codenamed operatives. However, as the second in command, Rum would be the most likely to know of the drug's real intention, and thus be the most likely to make that potential connection.

From what I remember, Vermouth managed to figure out Conan's secret without him making any major slips around her. Her commentary over the course of the series makes it pretty clear she knows about at least the original Silver Bullet's purpose, which is strongly implied to be the basis for Sherry's APTX drug, and that she suspects the APTX is responsible for his de-aging. Not to mention she herself seems to be subject to some sort of age-altering drug/process. So it's not too far of a stretch for Rum to make the connection that it's possible too, since as the second in command he would have to be incredibly intelligent.

In that case, the timing of Shinichi's "death" and Conan's appearance, as well as the sudden rise in "Sleeping Detective Kogoro"'s fame after the uncannily intelligent Conan comes into the picture, could be enough to at least make him suspicious enough to investigate once it comes to his attention. Not enough to confirm anything, but enough that he'd want to look into it just to be safe.

...Also I love that the Akai family is heading for one of the weirdest family reunions EVER. Seriously. Potentially two people who faked their deaths and a shrunken mother, plus a high school detective tomboy daughter and then a son who has no involvement—and a grand total of three different surnames among the kids. Even after this is all resolved, there's going to be some interesting interactions and talks in store for them. Yumi has her luck cut out for her marrying into this mess.

[Zerozaki4869]

After reading the latest chapter I think:

Wakita = Rum
Kuroda = Tsutomu
Rumi = Asaka

Kuroda tells Koumei about "time is money". He wouldn't do that if he were Rum. I think he wanted Koumei to find out whether Wakita (and maybe Bourbon) will react to that words (because Rum surely will react). Which almost proves that Wakita is Rum.

Kuroda and Rumi met once. If either of them would be Rum, the probably would attack the other, because Rum is in conflict with both Tsutomu and Asaka. Also considering how Rum is impatient and ruthless, I doubt they would not attack only because there were some children in the bacground. Even if they would, I'm pretty sure they soon enough (after the children would be gone or went somewhere) would kill the other. Why they don't like each other? I think because of Kouji. Asaka was involved in his murder and Tsutomu is related to him (though Shuukichi).

EDIT:

Maybe I should add that if Kuroda would be Rum, he would order Bourbon to tell that words instead of Koumei. And even then, even if Wakita wouldn't be Rum there is a very little sense to say them to someone else (especially Asaka and Tsutomu). In fact I can't imagine what Rum would accomplish by seeing Wakita's reaction or the lack of to them (I assume Rum knows that Amuro is Bourbon, so he doesn't need to test his reaction).

I'm pretty sure Kuroda knows that Wakita is Rum, and he's using Koumei to set up a trap to catch Rum (because Rum will need to investigate why someone not related to the BO knows his catchphrase).

Some edits if you will,
Komei thought "Time is money, as the saying goes." it doesn't mean that Kuroda had told him "Time is money."
The call from Kuroda was to stop Komei from approaching Bourbon.(that is the most likely solution.)

Now there are some very intruding stuff about Wakita.
Wakita's traitor commentary does him no good if he is Rum and also he is suspecting Bourbon.
Taking a name which references his saying is also not a good choice.("Time is money" in japanese literally means Toki Wa Kanenari. If you will Wakita Kanenori is not a very smart wordplay altogether as if it was created to be noticed, so is Wakita's eyepatch.)

Kuroda is a junk suspect.
Rumi is not a junk suspect anymore after SBD.

[Zerozaki4869]

9 tailed foxes are messengers of Inari-Kami(god of paddy)
Now in Haneda's name there is a symbol of Paddy.
So 9 tailed fox might be a foreshadowing of Wakita being the messenger/good guy.

[MeiTanteixX]

Her commentary over the course of the series makes it pretty clear she knows about at least the original Silver Bullet's purpose, which is strongly implied to be the basis for Sherry's APTX drug, and that she suspects the APTX is responsible for his de-aging.

The Silver Bullet research is a topic we haven't touched on since the mention of Atsushi's dream research. According to Vermouth, the parents took over the BO/foolish research, like Sherry, and they created the first prototype drug (APTX) that was used 17 yrs ago, before Sherry (who recreated it through the remaining data after the fire). So it's more so implied that the parents' APTX drug (which is not Silver Bullet/dream drug) is the basis of the current APTX drug with shrinking side effect (File 948/1025).

[Nemomon]

After reading the latest chapter I think:

Wakita = Rum
Kuroda = Tsutomu
Rumi = Asaka

Kuroda tells Koumei about "time is money". He wouldn't do that if he were Rum. I think he wanted Koumei to find out whether Wakita (and maybe Bourbon) will react to that words (because Rum surely will react). Which almost proves that Wakita is Rum.

Kuroda and Rumi met once. If either of them would be Rum, the probably would attack the other, because Rum is in conflict with both Tsutomu and Asaka. Also considering how Rum is impatient and ruthless, I doubt they would not attack only because there were some children in the bacground. Even if they would, I'm pretty sure they soon enough (after the children would be gone or went somewhere) would kill the other. Why they don't like each other? I think because of Kouji. Asaka was involved in his murder and Tsutomu is related to him (though Shuukichi).

EDIT:

Maybe I should add that if Kuroda would be Rum, he would order Bourbon to tell that words instead of Koumei. And even then, even if Wakita wouldn't be Rum there is a very little sense to say them to someone else (especially Asaka and Tsutomu). In fact I can't imagine what Rum would accomplish by seeing Wakita's reaction or the lack of to them (I assume Rum knows that Amuro is Bourbon, so he doesn't need to test his reaction).

I'm pretty sure Kuroda knows that Wakita is Rum, and he's using Koumei to set up a trap to catch Rum (because Rum will need to investigate why someone not related to the BO knows his catchphrase).

Some edits if you will,
Komei thought "Time is money, as the saying goes." it doesn't mean that Kuroda had told him "Time is money."
The call from Kuroda was to stop Komei from approaching Bourbon.(that is the most likely solution.)

Now there are some very intruding stuff about Wakita.
Wakita's traitor commentary does him no good if he is Rum and also he is suspecting Bourbon.
Taking a name which references his saying is also not a good choice.("Time is money" in japanese literally means Toki Wa Kanenari. If you will Wakita Kanenori is not a very smart wordplay altogether as if it was created to be noticed, so is Wakita's eyepatch.)

Kuroda is a junk suspect.
Rumi is not a junk suspect anymore after SBD.

I think it's impossible for Kuroda to know that Koumei already met Bourbon, because it was a spontaneous meeting, and also Rei back that wasn't anybody important (and probably wasn't even yet in the BO). Not to mention that Kuroda probably was still in coma back then. I think Koumei intentionally ignored Bourbon, because he knew that he's a police officer, and since he used a different name when introducing himself, Koumei knew that he's already in cover. It is possible that Kuroda told him to ignore "that blond guy", but first Kuroda should not know that Koumei knows him (so in this case warning about the case would deal more damage to it than letting it be), and second Amuro didn't know who from Nagano will investigate the case, so warning Kuroda about Koumei would not make sense (assuming that Amuro already knew that Scotch's brother works in Nagano). That's why I thought Kuroda told Koumei about "time is money (and use Chinese substitute)" because there was no way for Koumei to know that this proverb is important (until he was told).

Yeah, Koumei though about "time is money", but he said something similar to that and I meant what he said (using the short version he thought). Either way Rum surely would not ignore this fact, and probably is smart enough to understand that what he just heard is his own catchphrase.

About the Wakita name, it doesn't make sense to use it at all regardless if it was used by Rum or someone else. Wakita works in a public place and is not in hiding. His sushi bar begs for a bomb being planted or a fire if that name was meant to lure Rum out. I think Rum loves his catchphrase so much that he's even willing to use it as his name.

[Zerozaki4869]

Your impossibility argument holds no water.
Amuro knew everything about Scotch. Amuro knew that Scotch had a bro working in Nagano PD.
So when Amuro was told that their destination will be Nagano and after reaching they are possibly going to investigate a serial murder case, then calling his NPA boss(Kuroda) to tell Komei to not interact with him for his cover's sake sounds extremely possible.

Komei uses Chinese proverbs, so it is very likely that he will use a Chinese proverb.
In his thought he says "as the saying goes." to signify that he thinks that these two proverbs are pretty much the same thing.
It has no implication whatsoever that Kuroda has told him to use that proverb.

Again, Wakita is investigating around Mouri Kogoro, the same man who was involved in Hotta Gaito's farce, a farce which hinges on a job that Rum had screwed up much earlier.
So it is a very rum-like disguise and name.

[Npaz]

from the discussion, is Kuroda not a rum candidate?

[DCUniverseAficionado]

from the discussion, is Kuroda not a rum candidate?

I concur with zerozaki that he's not Rum.

Anyone think he is?

[Nemomon]

I also don't think he is.

[Zerozaki4869]

I'm more interested in the "dirt" that Nishino had noticed on the cards.
Amuro didn't call him out on his bullshit rather he was in an explaining mode.

So it is very likely that Nishino saw something on the cards.(He had his own reason to protest but the fact remains that there was something.)
Now there could be two targets for Amuro's fingerprint lifting procedure, namely Conan/Wakita.

He had ample time time to get Conan's fingerprint, so Wakita looks a more possible answer.
So why Wakita's fingerprint is suddenly needed?
Do Kuroda/Amuro wants to confirm that whether Wakita is a certain someone or not?
There are only two persons whose fingerprint can be lifted from the crime scene(Kohji case as that is very relevant)
Rum is a pro assassin so Rum won't leave evidence behind, so Asaka and Tsutomu are two very likely options.
So whether Wakita is Asaka suspect in NPA's eye or a Tsutomu suspect?