Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » December 24th, 2018, 6:06 pm

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:I don't think Maria is Anokata, but Anokata being shrunk isn't that crazy of an idea to me, either.
agreed. in fact, that's exactly what I suspect :p
Last edited by MeiTanteixX on December 24th, 2018, 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
mtcc
Posts: 45

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby mtcc » December 24th, 2018, 7:36 pm

and I have a question what Wakita and katsumata use for I in Japanese boku or watashi
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 341

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » December 24th, 2018, 9:32 pm

Regarding Wakita. the Waki part of his name has a very intriguing alternate meaning, It means off-topic in a convo."
Given, the alleged "Boss' closest associate" comes from a character who had been falsely accused, sounds like a junk herring at best and a foreshadowing with a twist at worst.

(Like if Rumi total BO is said to be a mysterious female hero, then Wakita(a ratty BO) can also be said as the Boss'(the other one, the Mob/organization Boss) closest associate won't be a stretch.

I personally think these so called references are just junk(these had killed Bourbon arc)

But if anything/any foreshadowing of Wakita has been done, then I say,
1) Parallel to Bourbon(three faced guy) as Wakita was ordered to wait three drinks to three different customers.
2) Wakita is possibly a BO member named Whiskey.(The woman had ordered highball, the basic ingredient of Higball is Japanese Whiskey, commonly referred to as "Whiskey" in Japan.)
3) An woman with very high stakes(possibly from BO) in this arc is looking for Whiskey.(Just like a another detective was hot on Bourbon's tail thus foreshadowing Subaru's interest in Bourbon.)
4) Badmouthing Rum, while saying that Rum is weak despite the win.(Pirate's spirit is an winner yet a weak link.), thus enmity and high-nosed attitude regarding Rum(an enemy who is fooling Rum for 17 years??)
5) The culprit of the case was a nosy man and failure of a husband.(Tsutomu??)
mtcc
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby mtcc » December 25th, 2018, 12:38 am

I counted the panels for Wakita crossed arms more or less than 30 panels
Kor
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Kor » December 25th, 2018, 1:02 am

Dunno if anyone else has brought it up in the past, but after jokingly making references to Austin Powers in the cbox a couple days ago, there was a realization of some direct reference to James Bond.

In an interview from 2014 there was this bit:
I: So then, the black organization is full of mysteries. But, what sort of orginization are they, and what is their goal? World Conquest?

A: Well, the world....or rather, they want control of lot's of money. They're moving stealthily in the shadows...sort of like (Al) Capone did right? Or, sort of like the image of the bad guys in 007 or something...sitting there stroking a cat. It's probably best not to say too much.


I don't know how many took this as literally, but based on the "implication" (though to me it reads more like "this is what that thing meant, none of you got it"), it does seem like Karasuma is basically a James Bond-y cat stroking evil boss.
Page 101:

What do these mysterious actions mean!?

Itakura’s diary reported that “a cat’s cry grew louder behind the woman that called me, the woman got slightly nervous and cut the call”.

It’s hard to think that the woman (Vermouth) cut the call just because a cat was coming closer. But what if “someone holding a cat” had done so? And if that “someone” was Karasuma, then...


Said cat stroking Bond villain is Ernst Stavro Blofeld, who is the leader of the terrorist organization Spectre, and his second in command is Emilio Largo, who, in the films is also referred to as Number 2. Also from the films is that Largo's missing an eye, so he wears an eyepatch over his left eye. So seems like the concept of an "eye-missing second in command" comes from Bond.
Dunno how far the parallels will go and how much of it should be taken into account, but just wanted to point it out.

EDIT:
Ah right, so for any of you who believe Maria's the boss, plz find proof she has a cat. If you can't, there's another kid at Conan's school who has a cat, Hiroki, the first "client" of the DBs, so perhaps you can shift attention to him instead. Not sure how many cat candidates we've had in the series so far.
Image
S.Vineyard
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby S.Vineyard » December 25th, 2018, 5:29 am

I just realized.

Time... is...money....

Nope, that can't be an indirect Dr. Evil reference.... ;)
MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » December 25th, 2018, 5:33 am

Kor wrote:EDIT:
Ah right, so for any of you who believe Maria's the boss, plz find proof she has a cat. If you can't, there's another kid at Conan's school who has a cat, Hiroki, the first "client" of the DBs, so perhaps you can shift attention to him instead. Not sure how many cat candidates we've had in the series so far.
:crine:
    - Kisaki Eri (Had a cat in the past before Goro)
    - Urushiya Rinpei (Owned Taii since a year back)
    - Mutsumi Shagawa (Granddaughter owns Mugi-chan)
(Only ones I remember,... and yes, pretty much looked them up from that one cat-themed case :P)
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
PhantomWriter
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby PhantomWriter » December 26th, 2018, 2:23 am

Regarding Bond and MI6 references and/or parallels, there's a few. (Rum has some interesting parallels to Blofeld, too, which piques my curiosity.)

  • Hondou is a rendering of Bond.
  • Explicit references are made to MI6 and Bond in dialogue- Rei compares Agasa's inventions to MI6's and the romance novelist who wrote "The Phone, The Sea, and I" says that a certain maneuver is like Bond. (Incidentally, Mary later pulls off that Bond-like maneuver and her appraisal of Agasa's work is very positive, which is part of why people theorize she's MI6/former MI6.)
  • You Only Live Twice takes place in Japan, where Bond nearly gets poisoned. Blofeld is the villain in it.
  • On Her Majesty's Secret Service also has Blofeld and he's apparently keen on his family tree/heraldry and that he's involved in a medical research facility in the Alps. It's supposedly research to cure allergies, but it's a front for other, more nefarious doings.
  • Blofeld, for those unaware, underwent plastic surgery multiple times in the novels, changing his appearance. Three times, to be exact. These three times could be seen as corresponding to the three separate descriptions of Rum. In turn he appeared strong, lean, and finally somewhat elderly. This corresponds with the order of the descriptors Haibara gives near the start of the Rum arc. It also corresponds with the order of the suspects' introduction based on their most obvious traits- strong = Kuroda, effeminate = Wakasa, and elderly = Wakita.
  • As mentioned prior, Largo (the actual second in command in SPECTRE) wears an eyepatch over his left eye. He also has a distinct aquatic motif (guy has yachts and gets impaled by a harpoon, so...).
"Data! Data! Data! I cannot make bricks without clay." -Sherlock Holmes
mtcc
Posts: 45

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby mtcc » December 29th, 2018, 6:13 am

Valentin wrote:
mtcc wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
mtcc wrote:I want to point out something a lot of o panels in Wakita first case he appeared with crossed arms maybe this is a habit for him
Does it remind you of another character who often does the same?
katsumata but the panels only four panels and one keyhole this not enough to consider as a habit like Wakita
I had the same thought, or at least I asked myself: if I were to ascribe significance to this posture, what would it be?

Image

Both Kanenori Wakita and Chikara Katsumata cross their arms in the same manner—right-over-left—and indicate right-handedness, for example during their debuts by moving a shougi piece or serving dishes with the right hand. In contrast, Conan in File 500 and Haibara in File 239—both right-handed—cross their arms left-over-right; just three panels before left-over-right-crossing Conan in File 500, though, Haibara also crosses her arms right-over-left despite essentially being in the same situation as in File 239, namely reluctantly chasing down some newly introduced member of the organization. So does the manner of crossing arms bear any meaning in this series? Not usually, it seems.

Image

Then again, one could argue that a lot of time had passed between File 239 and File 500, and while there was no need to differentiate left-over-right and right-over-left arm-crossers at that time, there might be now. Given that Shuukichi consistently crosses his arms right-over-left as well, model-loving Aoyama indeed might have found his model of a shougi player: crossing their arms right-over-left out of habit, even when not playing.

Image

Habit is where another kind of posture comes in. After bowing with Shuukichi in File 947, Chikara Katsumata is immediately looking downward, while Shuukichi is looking up, and looks rather hunched when Shuukichi is talking to him. Sure, he obviously concentrates on the match, but …

Image

… even when the match isn’t in progress, his posture isn’t exactly upright. Likewise, Kanenori Wakita’s posture doesn’t appear to be upright in any of his panels, although the one above might overaccentuate that somewhat for clarity’s sake. Be it genetically determined or out of habit—the two’s postures are overall quite … identical.

Do I claim that Rum is Kanenori Wakita is Chikara Katsumata in disguise? Um … I don’t know, not that I’m aware of. For what it’s worth, however, I’m among those who wouldn’t necessarily dislike a resolution where Chikara Katsumata is involved in the main plot, and with Aoyama having confirmed that Rum is either Hyoue Kuroda, Rumi Wakasa or Kanenori Wakita, thus making the latter the most likely candidate, Rum being Kanenori Wakita being Chikara Katsumata would probably represent the best way not to hurt my sensitive feelings.

On a different note: since we’re already talking about Maria Higashio, be sure to enjoy thriceplus’s and my beyond-genius theory why she is most definitely Renya Karasuma having gone underground as a seven-year-old girl. By the way, back then I failed to mention that Vermouth is the “boss’s favorite” because she acts as the boss’s parents—both mother and father—, allowing a supposedly dead old fart to live that wicked life of a seven-year-old girl. But honestly, I’m still holding the view that this hypothesis is much less ridiculous than it should be, especially considering how random this character’s return may be at first glance and how frighteningly much sense its timing would make. With due respect, I would rather support this crackpot idea than MeiTanteixX’s suggestions concerning her.

and also cover 906 maybe is a hint
like sera debut case cover 768 it was a hint
blackmoon
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby blackmoon » December 29th, 2018, 7:10 am

some important spoilers from SDB BLACK+ Q&A:

Q91: “How old is RUM?”
A: “I can’t answer that.” ;D
Q92: “Is RUM certainly amongst the trio of Kuroda, Wakasa and Wakita?”
A: “It is, indeed!” ;)
Q93: “The “screwing up” that RUM did during the Haneda Kouji case, was it a major mistake? If that was the case, why wasn’t RUM killed (as punishment)?
A: “Because (they’re) No. 2.”
Q94: “Haneda Kouji is RUM, yes?”
A: “Wrong.” >:D
Q95: “Why is RUM asking Amuro to provide info on Shinichi all of a sudden? Does RUM have some goal?”
A: “Well, they must have one.”
Q96: “Wakasa-sensei is so suspicious, she’s scary. Is she (one) of the men in black? Or it’s not the case?”
A: “I wonder about that. Please feel the fear.” (laughs) 8-)
Q97: “Wakasa Rumi-sensei’s name (若狭留美) always looks like “若さ wakasa (youth)”, “留める todomeru (stop)”, “美しさ utsukushisa (beauty)”. Is it related to Vermouth’s immortality?”
A: “You’re amazing!” (laughs)
Q98: “Were Wakasa Rumi and Haneda Kouji lovers?”
A: “Huh?” ::)
source from following site:
https://aminoapps.com/c/detective-conan-meitantei-conan/page/blog/sdb-black-q-a-aoyama-gosho-letter-1-2/26le_aqTNurXpmRbM8z0J3KjLEE6gGvpq
"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)
dccd
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby dccd » December 29th, 2018, 9:57 am

and also cover 906 maybe is a hint
like sera debut case cover 768 it was a hint


Really nice (possible) catch.
Here you can see the original bottle.
Maybe theres another hint.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey (aka the RAT)
[ ] Iori = just a butler
alphajjc
Posts: 87

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby alphajjc » December 31st, 2018, 3:51 am

MeiTanteixX wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:I don't think Maria is Anokata, but Anokata being shrunk isn't that crazy of an idea to me, either.
agreed. in fact, that's exactly what I suspect :p



But don't forget though that Reyna likely isn't the "current Anokata" anyway. I subscribe to the theory that he was the old boss. Who knows Maria could be the current boss though. What i do see though is that in the Boss Arc, Gosho will give us the "3 suspect" standard by having the three suspects for the Boss be all people who "shrunk" from APTX
MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » December 31st, 2018, 8:55 am

alphajjc wrote:What i do see though is that in the Boss Arc, Gosho will give us the "3 suspect" standard by having the three suspects for the Boss be all people who "shrunk" from APTX
Or it will be something completely different, or more similar to Kir arc (in that there's more BO operations in big groups), or that we will get a mix of everything. If he were to use the "three suspect" formula in a scenario were the boss is a shrunken adult, I would imagine it being a better mystery plot if all three are adult males (due to the preconception that he is like Vermouth, a non-aging young adult), and then ends up being the fourth shrunken adult, rather than ruining the chance at a "shrunken boss" twist by initially having shrunken adults as suspects.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Npaz
Posts: 9

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Npaz » January 24th, 2019, 11:12 pm

is there a recent theory (imo) about detective conan? can you share info?

1. concerning rum (kuroda, time rumi and wakita) or wakita is whiskey ??

2. What about boss theory?
* Is Maria still a candidate? * Can you tell me about the theory of Maria Higashiro in full?

3. how about theory about iori muga (Wada Shin'ichi)

thank you
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 341

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » January 25th, 2019, 4:10 am

I'll give you my Rum theory(plus 3 suspect theory)

a) Kuroda is the NPA's big shot who is handling the investigation of the BO. He is the Boss of Bourbon(as of now.)
He was possibly patrolling in Nagano to check up on Kansuke(as a Rum candidate) and looking out for Morofushi(he is the bro of Scotch and a possible BO target.)
The news about Rum's movement is the trigger which made NPA to put Kuroda in Beika to collaborate with Amuro.(Possibly Rum had used Kir and Bourbon to do some Reiki stuff)
Kuroda is not switched during the coma.(anyone intelligent enough to pull that off won't let that glaring red flag.White hair in one hour stuff)

b)Wakasa Rumi is the most dangerous element of the lot. She was able to deduce that there would be a skeleton in the school's old warehouse. Even Shinichi was not able to do that. In the burning tent case she hinted the case resolution to Shinichi and Kuroda. In the Pro-golfer case she lured the DB into her condo and made Shinichi suspect her by putting the receipt in front of him. She has access to the aptx list, the Shinichi sighting has forced her to open the APTX list and she is keeping a close tan on Shinichi. She has triggered Haibara but yet Habri trusts her/at lesst keeping Shinichi away from getting too close to Wakasa Rumi.
It seems like she hates a black haired Kuroda but doesn't think this current Kuroda is that person. Her name is a direct reference to the dying message. She seems to like "Whiskey".

c) Wakita the obvious red herring with all rum qualities but if one ceases to be pedantic, one can find Wakita's true motive.
He wants to investigate/get close to Kogoro but is not using the suavity of Bourbon, his eye reminded Conan of Rum, his name is derived from "Toki Wa Kanenari." a phrase meaning "Time is money." used by Rum quite extensively.With these you add "Boss' closest associate." Wow you get a Rum, but now look at something else, Wakita's features will remind anyone of Rum if they have heard about him/acquainted with the phrase, he is also taking his job slowly, unlike Bourbon he is not interfering with Kogoro's business. He got triggered by the Shinishi sighting but unlike Rumi he asked Shinichi's neighbour in an indirect way.
Wakita in his intro chapter was asked to bring "Highball" for one of the customers. Highball contains Japanese Whiskey and water, which is commonly known as Whiskey. Wakita unlike Kuroda didn't show an immediate desire to engage Rumi, yet he acknowledged that Rumi is a smart person.

Now I'll talk a little about the other man who is also missing and whose body was never found.
Tsutomu Akai was very fond of using idioms and proverbs. He had his influence on his whole family, incidentally Gin and Mary had used the same phrase during the resolution of Hotta case.
This is sort of a hint that Papa-akai is an inside man in BO and has considerable influence on Gin.
Scotch's death is also an indicator of another rat in BO. Shuichi never broke the news to anyone about the assassination orders, then why did Scotch figured out that Akai was there to kill him?
An explanation is that a high ranking rat had divulged the info to Scotch to save him.
Now if there is a high ranking rat and Rum is moving, then it is evident that Rum is possibly conspiring against the high ranking rat.

So my inference is
Wakita is Tsutomu.

Rumi is a rat hunter aka Rum. Haibara is trying to save Conan from her as she thinks if Conan gets too close Rumi will also kill him.

Regarding Iori muga he is possibly half Akai(Lol)

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