Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

[dccd]

I would like to know if the "womanly man/feminine man"-hint is translated correctly.
And therefore does not simply mean "Rum is female".
But given the silhouettes I guess it isnt.

Well, Conan does not seem to bother about Rum being male since at one point
he suspects Mary (952 ? Last pages of the Hotta Gaito - case).
Still the alcohol-gender-pattern remains...

[jimmy_kud0_tv2]

I would like to know if the "womanly man/feminine man"-hint is translated correctly.
And therefore does not simply mean "Rum is female".
But given the silhouettes I guess it isnt.

女のような男
onna no you na otoko
A man who is similar to a woman

Otoko is man and Onna is woman.
in japanese, the item being described comes last, so "otoko" is being described by the "onna no you na"
the "no you na" is a grammar point meaning "like" or "similar to" such as "A is similar to B".

[Zerozaki4869]

Think of this line at the end of the chapter, "Three Rum suspects are staring at.........",

That side text isn't written by Gosho, but by the publisher (with the intention of hyping up stuff). Far as I recall that side text is absent in the volumes.

also Rumi is not a Rum suspect(as she's not an womanly man.)

Within the context of the manga, yeah, she is a Rum suspect. The manga clearly tries to frame her as such. If you don't think she's Rum, it's fine, but if her current function weren't meant to be a "Rum suspect", Gosho wouldn't have made her so suspicious.

So it was that, even then my previous idea won't change. The hand has different orientation than Kuroda's. I'll stick to the theory of another Rum suspect whose face is not seen.

Rumi isn't a Rum suspect. Rumi is made to look like an Asaka suspect and due to oversimplification and Rum=Asaca stuff, average/casual readers would find that Rumi=Asaka(Female??)=Rum. Thus Gosho is playing in that line.

His conventional Rum suspects are, Kuroda, Wakita and Iori. Kuroda(Strong), Wakita(Old), Iori(Womanly). Gosho is operating on two levels, in one level he's making Rumi eat-up Iori's place, despite her not being one of Rum's description.
In the other level he's hinting the stealth, strength, capability in hand to hand combat skills of Iori.

So what is his game? Iori looks aloof from the plot yet has the quintessential qualities to be Rum also to stay as the butler and run errands of a rich kid while his past is coming bite him back looks too much of contrived stuff.

Kuroda and Wakita makes sense. Kuroda is clearly looking for Kohji killer/trying to decode the message(trying to interpret the dying message ) while Wakita is after Kogro who was involved in soul detective case which was linked to Kohji case.

Only these two seem relevant, then what Rumi and Iori are accomplishing?

If I'm correct, Rumi has the stuff which she took from Kohji's palm.(Makes sense as Rumi must have left her fingerprints all over Kohji's body so she had to disappear and she also wants to solve the case and catch the Kohji killer.)

Iori looks to be hiding and his skill-set makes him an uber bodyguard.(Asaka?)

So I'm thinking among Kuroda and Wakita, one is Akai Tsutomu while the other was his boss, or the reverse.

[dccd]

The hand-panel is one thing that probably will never ever be solved.
But yeah, one can see it as a subtle hint on a 4th person being involved.
Especially the size of the panel - comparable to Wakitas and Kurodas - kinda favours this idea.

And well, primarily Rumi is a Rum suspect and only secondary an Asaka one.
Even though we obv know she isnt Rum the vast majority of the readership sees her as one.
Gosho obviously tries to build her up as well, since it does not make any sense to focus on her one-eye-problem for ages.
Did Asaka was told to have any eye-problems?
There you go.

She agrees :

ABBC3_SPOILER_SHOW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV2Fz5HOCc4#t=11m33s

Hm... 11min30sec , seems timestamp doesnt work.

Interesting that, even after the blindman-case and tengu-case you still believe that Iori is part of the mainplot even
though there was not one single scene which indicated that.
If he´s not Rum but a Rum-suspect, then why didnt Gosho gave him some last-page-suspects-screen time?

[PhantomWriter]

I think that is an interesting point to bring up, that this is a bit unusual in terms of framing. Were one to consider Asaka and Rum different, the framing is different. There's Rum suspects and Asaka suspects, with some overlap.

If just looking at the suspects and their framing in the manga, it's Wakasa, Wakita, and Kuroda. Very clearly.

However, when separate and ignoring some of the other framing devices, we get this list:

Rum suspects- Kuroda, Wakita, Iori, Wakasa(?)
Asaka suspects- Mary, Wakasa, Iori

The hand-panel is one thing that probably will never ever be solved.
But yeah, one can see it as a subtle hint on a 4th person being involved.
Especially the size of the panel - comparable to Wakitas and Kurodas - kinda favours this idea.
There you go.

Size of that panel permits an accurate scaling of text for that sort of phone application. Then it can be read even without the thought bubbles, dccd. I don't necessarily think it's a hint at a fourth person.

Interesting that, even after the blindman-case and tengu-case you still believe that Iori is part of the mainplot even
though there was not one single scene which indicated that.
If he´s not Rum but a Rum-suspect, then why didnt Gosho gave him some last-page-suspects-screen time?

I have to agree, though I wouldn't say it's necessarily a "suspect screen time" issue. Some of Gosho's mysteries don't frame the culprit as a major suspect, such as Vermouth being disguised as Araide.

[Zerozaki4869]

Iori is more of an Asaka suspect than Rum suspect, but he fits the womanly man description while Rumi only gets fitted by Asaka(female)=Rum interpretation.

I think he's bluffing both the casual and the inquisitive readers. On one hand he's framing Wakasa as a contrived Rum suspects on the other hand he's framing her a Asaka suspect(for inquisitive readers).

Why he needs to do this, 1)Rumi's involvement kicks out Iori from both suspect list 2) Given the fact that Rum=Asaka would mean severe inconsistencies in Kohji case, dying message, Amanda's murder(?) Rum isn't Asaka. So technically Rumi's presence is freeing up the real Asaka suspect and the real Rum suspect. Iori has all skills that can make him a good bodyguard, plus a womanly face and slender figure. Makes him a good Asaka but for Rum the other Rum suspect who got freed by Rumi's involvement is probably the man seeing stuff in the panel. Wakita and Kuroda looks like they have just picked up their phones after hearing an alert while the person in the panel seems to scroll his phone.

I think ther's someone besides Kuroda, Wakita and Iori who is Rum and Iori is probably Asaka or an Asaka model. If we delete the existence of Rumi from the manga only these two hypotheses can remain.

[MeiTanteixX]

So.... File 1008 happened.

As for my thoughts,...

CARASUMA

Spoiler:

"CARASUMA" was heavily implied to be the mirror-message of Kohji's dying message. As predicted, it did end up becoming the most reasonable letter arrangement, and it further enforces the idea that the clenched scissor case (File 948-950) is Gosho's parallel to the actual case from 17 years ago, since the mirror message "CARASUMA" ended up being a surname, just like the glass message "SENBA".

Wakita's move and Rumi's Shogi piece

Spoiler:

Wakita finally made his move. He went to Agasa's house to pry on Kudo Shinichi. This is a strong indication that he is interested in Shinichi for some reason. Following my suspicions about him being a Boss-associated BO agent, his actions does go in line with him wanting to confirm if Shinichi survived the APTX drug.



This was later followed by half a page dedicated to the Rum suspects, where we not only see Wakita giving off a serious reaction to the Shinichi cover-up, but also Rumi being in possession of a shogi piece.



The shogi piece she had beside her was the "promoted bishop" abbreviated as "Uma"("horse"). If this is an indication to her figuring out, or being in a possession of, the missing object, that Kohji was clenching between his hand and scissor, that was taken from the crime scene, then this also follows my prediction that Kohji was using "UMA" as a part of the dying message. Since "Uma" means "horse", and we not only had the "horse" reference for the Rum movie cover but also directly used canonically in relation to "Pirate's Spirit"/"Rum"/the culprit of the Kohji case(File 975), it further foreshadows that "Uma" is most likely the right word from the piece. Same would imply if the shogi-like missing shape of "U" in the hand-mirror was hinting to the Shogi piece that start with "U". As for whether Rumi's shogi piece is the exact same one as the one that was taken 17 years ago, that is yet to be determined. Same goes for the object in her pocket, however, since Gosho revealed the shogi piece now, it lessens the chance that the object in her pocket is something else but the Uma piece.



All that's left now is for the knight piece to be revealed, in order to complete the potential full name of Rum: Karasuma Muga.

Rum's new objective

Spoiler:

After the Rum-suspects scene, we finally got the awaited development that we have been waiting: an objective for Rum. We have been due an official goal for the antagonist of this arc, and this is our only confirmed goal that we have gotten from Rum. Rum sent a text to Bourbon demanding information about Shinichi, and that was followed by an english idiom "Time is money!". This is our first time getting a canon glimpse at Rum's writing, and the first unique thing we get is him writing in english. This could be Gosho's indication that Rum has been influenced by an english-speaking country. Following my theory about Muga being Rum, it does go well in line with him, since he was portrayed to have gotten European/British influence.



A very interesting finding that the Japanese fans made was that "Time is money!" in Japanese ("Tokiwa Kanenari") is an anagram for "Wakita Kanenori". Considering that Gosho reminded us of Wakita's full name pages before this idiom was sent by Rum, it highly suggest it could be an intentional hint to that "Wakita Kanenori" is a fake name derived from the anagram of the idiom "Time is money!". Since Wakita was using idioms and metaphors in his introduction, it makes sense that he would use this idiom often as well (along with others like "It's like encountering a demon in the darkness"). Just like my suspicion that Gin was using one of Wakita's idioms, this could be Gosho's hint that Rum is also using one of Wakita's idioms (which further supports Wakita's BO affiliation and his potential high position to be able influence agents like Gin, and especially Rum).

Karasuma Renya

Spoiler:

Lastly, The biggest shocker was at the end, when Karasuma Renya was revealed to be, or at least have been, the Boss of the BO.
According to Yusaku, he is the most powerful man in Japan. This means that it's very likely that a japanese like Haneda Kohji would know of the important figures in that family, so Rum's full name being known to Kohji makes more sense now (if Rum is a Karasuma).

[Zerozaki4869]

So.... File 1008 happened.

As for my thoughts,...

CARASUMA

Spoiler:

"CARASUMA" was heavily implied to be the mirror-message of Kohji's dying message. As predicted, it did end up becoming the most reasonable letter arrangement, and it further enforces the idea that the clenched scissor case (File 948-950) is Gosho's parallel to the actual case from 17 years ago, since the mirror message "CARASUMA" ended up being a surname, just like the glass message "SENBA".

Wakita's move and Rumi's Shogi piece

Spoiler:

Wakita finally made his move. He went to Agasa's house to pry on Kudo Shinichi. This is a strong indication that he is interested in Shinichi for some reason. Following my suspicions about him being a Boss-associated BO agent, his actions does go in line with him wanting to confirm if Shinichi survived the APTX drug.



This was later followed by half a page dedicated to the Rum suspects, where we not only see Wakita giving off a serious reaction to the Shinichi cover-up, but also Rumi being in possession of a shogi piece.



The shogi piece she had beside her was the "promoted bishop" abbreviated as "Uma"("horse"). If this is an indication to her figuring out, or being in a possession of, the missing object, that Kohji was clenching between his hand and scissor, that was taken from the crime scene, then this also follows my prediction that Kohji was using "UMA" as a part of the dying message. Since "Uma" means "horse", and we not only had the "horse" reference for the Rum movie cover but also directly used canonically in relation to "Pirate's Spirit"/"Rum"/the culprit of the Kohji case(File 975), it further foreshadows that "Uma" is most likely the right word from the piece. Same would imply if the shogi-like missing shape of "U" in the hand-mirror was hinting to the Shogi piece that start with "U". As for whether Rumi's shogi piece is the exact same one as the one that was taken 17 years ago, that is yet to be determined. Same goes for the object in her pocket, however, since Gosho revealed the shogi piece now, it lessens the chance that the object in her pocket is something else but the Uma piece.



All that's left now is for the knight piece to be revealed, in order to complete the potential full name of Rum: Karasuma Muga.

Rum's new objective

Spoiler:

After the Rum-suspects scene, we finally got the awaited development that we have been waiting: an objective for Rum. We have been due an official goal for the antagonist of this arc, and this is our only confirmed goal that we have gotten from Rum. Rum sent a text to Bourbon demanding information about Shinichi, and that was followed by an english idiom "Time is money!". This is our first time getting a canon glimpse at Rum's writing, and the first unique thing we get is him writing in english. This could be Gosho's indication that Rum has been influenced by an english-speaking country. Following my theory about Muga being Rum, it does go well in line with him, since he was portrayed to have gotten European/British influence.



A very interesting finding that the Japanese fans made was that "Time is money!" in Japanese ("Tokiwa Kanenari") is an anagram for "Wakita Kanenori". Considering that Gosho reminded us of Wakita's full name pages before this idiom was sent by Rum, it highly suggest it could be an intentional hint to that "Wakita Kanenori" is a fake name derived from the anagram of the idiom "Time is money!". Since Wakita was using idioms and metaphors in his introduction, it makes sense that he would use this idiom often as well (along with others like "It's like encountering a demon in the darkness"). Just like my suspicion that Gin was using one of Wakita's idioms, this could be Gosho's hint that Rum is also using one of Wakita's idioms (which further supports Wakita's BO affiliation and his potential high position to be able influence agents like Gin, and especially Rum).

Karasuma Renya

Spoiler:

Lastly, The biggest shocker was at the end, when Karasuma Renya was revealed to be, or at least have been, the Boss of the BO.
According to Yusaku, he is the most powerful man in Japan. This means that it's very likely that a japanese like Haneda Kohji would know of the important figures in that family, so Rum's full name being known to Kohji makes more sense now (if Rum is a Karasuma).

Spoiler:

I'll tell you, the issues with your dying message. Firstly the The horse also has another starting position that's B. So it can also mean Buma. To think Rum suspect changes his surname/family name but holds onto his given name is not likely. Also the mirror message is quite a Juke/fake. You can't cut a mirror with a backing. Even if you use the scissors to break it along the intended lines, it's very unlikely to achieve this intended message. But I've something else up my sleeves, when you hold a scissor defensively it looks like an ancient chinese dagger axe,http://dimensionscollide.wikia.com/wiki/Dagger-axe , which uses the character Ka, in Kunyomi reading. If you Kun-read Ryuma(that's the name of the piece, Uma is not the full name) it becomes Tatsu-ma. Now put Ka+Tatsu+Ma>>>Katsumata.

Now about your Wakita issue, I was firm believer of Wakita's love for idioms and cryptic wordplay. There's a character who in this arc was known for his cryptic wordplays and idioms. Toki Wa Kanenari>> Wakita Kanenori(meaning Wakita is racing against time to solve something since he appeared first ??)

Now on an other front Iori looks to be one who can effectively drug Mary. Given his British connections and being the butler of a rich girl who shows Brit mannerisms(having tea in the middle of the Kendo tournament) I'll say that Iori under the order of Rum went to UK and drugged Mary.(AS Gin only knew that Akai's family is abroad but had no idea. This might have alerted Rum, who made a connection with Shuichi and Tsutomu since Tsutomu was his rival, and now to kill two birds with a single stone he ordered the killing of Mary, which Iori carried out.

I think Rumi was the one who faked the mirror message, the mirror was already broken, so this woman just opened the taps and took the shogi piece from his palm. And possibly hid the broken parts.Or she just claimed the tap was running and put the photo of the mirror minus the broken fragments as they might have been close by and the photographer focused only on the mirror. To make people/BO/Kohji killer think that the message is "U MUSCARA". So whoever will come to her with U MUSCARA will be related to Kohji killer and she will exert her revenge, but to her dismay it had become CARASUMA, in BO's interpretation. Thus it was a Juke/fake clue that created the illusion Rum failed to tidy up and Haneda revealed Boss' name. So Rum goes into exile. But now he's become active and taken an interest in Shinichi. Possibly the person who in file 1005 before Kuroda's panel. He wants to get back at Gin.

[alphajjc]

So.... File 1008 happened.

As for my thoughts,...

CARASUMA

Spoiler:

"CARASUMA" was heavily implied to be the mirror-message of Kohji's dying message. As predicted, it did end up becoming the most reasonable letter arrangement, and it further enforces the idea that the clenched scissor case (File 948-950) is Gosho's parallel to the actual case from 17 years ago, since the mirror message "CARASUMA" ended up being a surname, just like the glass message "SENBA".

Wakita's move and Rumi's Shogi piece

Spoiler:

Wakita finally made his move. He went to Agasa's house to pry on Kudo Shinichi. This is a strong indication that he is interested in Shinichi for some reason. Following my suspicions about him being a Boss-associated BO agent, his actions does go in line with him wanting to confirm if Shinichi survived the APTX drug.



This was later followed by half a page dedicated to the Rum suspects, where we not only see Wakita giving off a serious reaction to the Shinichi cover-up, but also Rumi being in possession of a shogi piece.



The shogi piece she had beside her was the "promoted bishop" abbreviated as "Uma"("horse"). If this is an indication to her figuring out, or being in a possession of, the missing object, that Kohji was clenching between his hand and scissor, that was taken from the crime scene, then this also follows my prediction that Kohji was using "UMA" as a part of the dying message. Since "Uma" means "horse", and we not only had the "horse" reference for the Rum movie cover but also directly used canonically in relation to "Pirate's Spirit"/"Rum"/the culprit of the Kohji case(File 975), it further foreshadows that "Uma" is most likely the right word from the piece. Same would imply if the shogi-like missing shape of "U" in the hand-mirror was hinting to the Shogi piece that start with "U". As for whether Rumi's shogi piece is the exact same one as the one that was taken 17 years ago, that is yet to be determined. Same goes for the object in her pocket, however, since Gosho revealed the shogi piece now, it lessens the chance that the object in her pocket is something else but the Uma piece.



All that's left now is for the knight piece to be revealed, in order to complete the potential full name of Rum: Karasuma Muga.

Rum's new objective

Spoiler:

After the Rum-suspects scene, we finally got the awaited development that we have been waiting: an objective for Rum. We have been due an official goal for the antagonist of this arc, and this is our only confirmed goal that we have gotten from Rum. Rum sent a text to Bourbon demanding information about Shinichi, and that was followed by an english idiom "Time is money!". This is our first time getting a canon glimpse at Rum's writing, and the first unique thing we get is him writing in english. This could be Gosho's indication that Rum has been influenced by an english-speaking country. Following my theory about Muga being Rum, it does go well in line with him, since he was portrayed to have gotten European/British influence.



A very interesting finding that the Japanese fans made was that "Time is money!" in Japanese ("Tokiwa Kanenari") is an anagram for "Wakita Kanenori". Considering that Gosho reminded us of Wakita's full name pages before this idiom was sent by Rum, it highly suggest it could be an intentional hint to that "Wakita Kanenori" is a fake name derived from the anagram of the idiom "Time is money!". Since Wakita was using idioms and metaphors in his introduction, it makes sense that he would use this idiom often as well (along with others like "It's like encountering a demon in the darkness"). Just like my suspicion that Gin was using one of Wakita's idioms, this could be Gosho's hint that Rum is also using one of Wakita's idioms (which further supports Wakita's BO affiliation and his potential high position to be able influence agents like Gin, and especially Rum).

Karasuma Renya

Spoiler:

Lastly, The biggest shocker was at the end, when Karasuma Renya was revealed to be, or at least have been, the Boss of the BO.
According to Yusaku, he is the most powerful man in Japan. This means that it's very likely that a japanese like Haneda Kohji would know of the important figures in that family, so Rum's full name being known to Kohji makes more sense now (if Rum is a Karasuma).

So if Iori's surname is Carasuma then do you mean his first name Iori is a fake name?

Because you said Carasuma Muga

And then if Carasuma Renya is related and he(Or she) was such a wealthy person maybe that lines up with Muga and the whole Butler image

I dont know how to explain it better but hopefully u know what im getting at

But when i think of Muga's job title and then recall about being told Renya is so wealthy it makes me think of maybe Muga grew up in the Carasuma family(obviously if he is related)

And that case i told you about earlier this year with that random rolls royce is coming back to my head again and looking very suspicious

This is all speculation of course but all these spoilers have opened up the floodgates

[MeiTanteixX]

So if Iori's surname is Carasuma then do you mean his first name Iori is a fake name?

Because you said Carasuma Muga

And then if Carasuma Renya is related and he(Or she) was such a wealthy person maybe that lines up with Muga and the whole Butler image

I dont know how to explain it better but hopefully u know what im getting at

But when i think of Muga's job title and then recall about being told Renya is so wealthy it makes me think of maybe Muga grew up in the Carasuma family(obviously if he is related)

And that case i told you about earlier this year with that random rolls royce is coming back to my head again and looking very suspicious

This is all speculation of course but all these spoilers have opened up the floodgates

"Iori" is a surname, "Muga" is the first-name. So if "Karasuma" is the real surname, then "Iori" is fake.

[Themaninarmor]

I think muga karasuma is a bit forced?? from 1008 revelation, we have to learn to think more simple and look for obvious hint.

[alphajjc]

I think muga karasuma is a bit forced?? from 1008 revelation, we have to learn to think more simple and look for obvious hint.

That Renya is the boss? Sure he may have been the old boss but the actual current boss would not have been revealed before who Rum is

So i dont think we should look for the obvious hint your thinking of

And no the old boss Carasuma did not get demoted to being Rum

[Haibara & Aika ryona]

I still think that its a new goast called "Goast Rum"; because his name is "Rum", and we had one killer called "Goast Rim", and because Rum and Rim are similar so I called rum as Goast Rum. Also he is like a ghost. So this ghost has a new thread. I think he will appear when I will die 

And also I still think that ater all these waiting, he will be an ordinary character who is really stupid, and don't have a real impact in the story, and just an ordinary member in the entire BO, just giving him the second member after the boss doesn't mean that it will surprise me, and I will impress and interest

[Themaninarmor]

I think muga karasuma is a bit forced?? from 1008 revelation, we have to learn to think more simple and look for obvious hint.

That Renya is the boss? Sure he may have been the old boss but the actual current boss would not have been revealed before who Rum is

So i dont think we should look for the obvious hint your thinking of

And no the old boss Carasuma did not get demoted to being Rum

[PhantomWriter]

I am bothered by the use of "Time is Money."

Spoiler:

People have figured it's likely an anagram, when translated, of Wakita's name.

(I'm not inclined to think it's meaningless or just flavor text, as Rum then tells Bourbon to hurry up, which would be otherwise redundant after mentioning that expression used to tell people to hurry up.)

Assuming for the sake of argument that Rum is warning Bourbon of Wakita, that means Rum knows Wakita's name and of Wakita's movements. Questions that bug me about this include:

• How did he learn Wakita's name? Was Rum out for sushi one night, went to the place Wakita works at, and figures that Wakita is somehow anti-Org.? Or did Wakita do something in the past that makes it clear his affiliations?
• How did he know Wakita was in the area investigating? Surveillance? Where is Rum, then? Are there cameras in the area near the Kudo house? Why would they be there in the first place (since only now does Rum care and want Bourbon to investigate)?
• What if Wakita was really just some fishmonger delivering food and happened to look at his phone soon afterward? Even if he's following the Kudo stuff, perhaps Wakita's just a big fan of the Kudos or of detectives in general? Seems an odd leap to make, imo.

Assuming for the sake of argument that Rum is Wakita, it could easily be Rum warning Bourbon what his cover identity is and not to bother going after him during the Shinichi investigation, preventing Bourbon from wasting time with a red herring.