What's the identity of Rum?

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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby MeiTanteixX » January 29th, 2017, 2:02 pm

Spimer wrote:I've checked that but he doesn't seem to. He uses formal speech the whole time but it's modern Japanese and not archaic Japanese.

Ok, thanks, at least that part is ruled out as a possible "old-age" description.
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Deusis
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby Deusis » February 9th, 2017, 12:09 am

Okay, I've just registered to point out that the whole thread started with this picture http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/201 ... 50-rum.png and a statement that the man in the background was drawn by Aoyama so he must be important. Actually I belive this man appeared before. A long time ago (chapters 72-77) there was Night Baron Murder Case and there was this man called Genichirou Kaneshiro. Just take a quick look on wiki or something. It may be because of the moustache and the glasses but doesn't they look very similar? What a shame of fandom to forgot about this case btw since it was night baron virus related. As appeared later this virus means a lot for organization so it wouldn't be strange for them to investigate the rumour about it.

Tbh I don't even know if it wasn't mentioned before. I just saw a picture in the first post and made a loud squeek because i always thought that this old man was suspicious and all the strange things in this case must have had some deeper meaning. So i only made a quick check through random pages to see if someone was talking about it, forgot that I can't english and wrote this in a high speed.. I can't help, I'm so excited about all this. So please, forgive me my mistakes, I don't use english very often.

Well, I'm probably excited for nothing. The man from back then may be unrelated and the similarity may be unintended, maybe Aoyama just likes to draw grandpas with rounded glasses, idk.
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » February 9th, 2017, 4:31 am

Deusis wrote:http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2014/36/1410088750-rum.png

the man in the background was drawn by Aoyama so he must be important. Actually I belive this man appeared before.


Indeed, because that's Konosuke Jii.

http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/Konosuke_Jii

Bottom line—he's not Rum.
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby k11chi » February 9th, 2017, 7:20 am

Lol yeah thats not Rum.

Also you really think Gin wouldn't care about Rum getting blown up? The boss would probably deal with him personally after a stunt like that.
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » February 9th, 2017, 8:36 am

k11chi wrote:...you really think Gin wouldn't care about Rum getting blown up? The boss would probably deal with him personally after a stunt like that.


Well, he certainly didn't care about Vermouth getting it... his whole "Who cares?" comment about the bombs on the platform during that is probably a hint related to Gosho's comment of, "Right now, there's something going on in the Organization."
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby MeiTanteixX » February 9th, 2017, 12:37 pm

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Well, he certainly didn't care about Vermouth getting it... his whole "Who cares?" comment about the bombs on the platform during that is probably a hint related to Gosho's comment of, "Right now, there's something going on in the Organization."

interesting assumption... I wonder what that would entail...
Could it be a matter solely focused on Vermouth, or is Gin simply embracing the chaos going on within the BO by unleashing ruthlessness on everyone?
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Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby Shiromi » February 15th, 2017, 9:22 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Well, he certainly didn't care about Vermouth getting it... his whole "Who cares?" comment about the bombs on the platform during that is probably a hint related to Gosho's comment of, "Right now, there's something going on in the Organization."

interesting assumption... I wonder what that would entail...
Could it be a matter solely focused on Vermouth, or is Gin simply embracing the chaos going on within the BO by unleashing ruthlessness on everyone?

Personally, I think Gin is taking advantage of the doubt caused by the discovery of three turncoats (Scotch, Rye, and Sherry) amongst their ranks to get rid of people he believes to be loyal to the boss, like Pisco and Vermouth. I think he's going to kill RUM and the boss, and he's going to be Shinichi's ultimate opponent.

But, that's just my hunch. I don't have much evidence to back it up.
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » February 16th, 2017, 2:14 am

Shiromi wrote:Personally, I think Gin is taking advantage of the doubt caused by the discovery of three turncoats (Scotch, Rye, and Sherry) amongst their ranks to get rid of people he believes to be loyal to the boss, like Pisco and Vermouth. I think he's going to kill RUM and the boss, and he's going to be Shinichi's ultimate opponent.

But, that's just my hunch. I don't have much evidence to back it up.


Well, he's a villains' villain—and people would appreciate Shinichi's/Conan's first opponent being his last, and he would finish what Gin started (though I do think we'll get that kind of resolution whether Gin attempts a coup from within the BO to try to take it over for himself).

However, this would come at the expense of the Boss and Rum, right? Not just at the expense of their lives, but at the expense of their characters and at the expense of their roles as villains. They've been built up so much as the people who can make Gin obey them (not to mention built up as other things)... for him to just off them...
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby Tantei San » February 16th, 2017, 12:24 pm

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
dccd wrote:To quote yourself:
"True, one must make a lot of assumptions, as we have so little info, at this point"

But well, you cant seriously deny it, that in secret-agent-stories there is the element of an agent commiting suicide.
Even Gosho used that element already in the person of Calvados.

so neither I cant prove it nor you cant deny it - thus atleast I will keep this possibilty in the back of my mind.


Calvados shot himself—he didn't use APTX.

There being no precedent for BO members committing suicide via APTX is why I consider it very unlikely—not impossible, very unlikely—that Rum tried to kill himself with APTX.

Again, for me, what you've suggested is very unlikely, but not impossible. So I'll never discount it. But very unlikely is very unlikely.

But you cannot deny the fact that as per the list of person used APTX, all died except Ai and Conan, so if there was a chance, He would have died if he used APTX then and there itself. But the fact that RUM is alive, make sense that he hasn't shrunk or else Amuro could've already targetted Haibara if not vermouth. So then and there the sotry could not have developed further.
I am not ruling that Rum didn't try to kill himself, if he did, But didn't use APTX for sure. As for the drug being made by haibara's parents, can't say until we don't know what it did.

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Well, he's a villains' villain—and people would appreciate Shinichi's/Conan's first opponent being his last, and he would finish what Gin started (though I do think we'll get that kind of resolution whether Gin attempts a coup from within the BO to try to take it over for himself).

However, this would come at the expense of the Boss and Rum, right? Not just at the expense of their lives, but at the expense of their characters and at the expense of their roles as villains. They've been built up so much as the people who can make Gin obey them (not to mention built up as other things)... for him to just off them...


As well as the fact that why NOW??
Why wait till now and also the way he has been working giving everything to BO there is no way he would plan a Coup and then there is Vodka as well, tho he might not be a part of coup but there is a possibility he may go against gin in that case and plan to tell the Boss and rum to take care of gin.
Even I like the idea of Finishing the story with Gin, but I agree with DCUniverseAficionado that the hype of both Boss and RUM will all go to waste.
And Gosho won't take a big risk like that to just giveaway both boss and Rum just like that.
Though it is possible that gin survives and comes back after both boss and rum get caught but its highly unlikely.
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby Shiromi » February 16th, 2017, 6:39 pm

Tantei San wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Well, he's a villains' villain—and people would appreciate Shinichi's/Conan's first opponent being his last, and he would finish what Gin started (though I do think we'll get that kind of resolution whether Gin attempts a coup from within the BO to try to take it over for himself).

However, this would come at the expense of the Boss and Rum, right? Not just at the expense of their lives, but at the expense of their characters and at the expense of their roles as villains. They've been built up so much as the people who can make Gin obey them (not to mention built up as other things)... for him to just off them...


As well as the fact that why NOW??
Why wait till now and also the way he has been working giving everything to BO there is no way he would plan a Coup and then there is Vodka as well, tho he might not be a part of coup but there is a possibility he may go against gin in that case and plan to tell the Boss and rum to take care of gin.
Even I like the idea of Finishing the story with Gin, but I agree with DCUniverseAficionado that the hype of both Boss and RUM will all go to waste.
And Gosho won't take a big risk like that to just giveaway both boss and Rum just like that.
Though it is possible that gin survives and comes back after both boss and rum get caught but its highly unlikely.

Or, Goushou could be using them to make Gin just that much more terrifying of an opponent for Shinichi. That way, the tension rises as Shinichi squares off against not only the person who "killed" him, but the one that was able to defeat the most dangerous agents and masterminds of his own organization, making him the most imposing final boss for Shinichi to battle.
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » February 16th, 2017, 9:57 pm

Shiromi wrote:
Tantei San wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Well, he's a villains' villain—and people would appreciate Shinichi's/Conan's first opponent being his last, and he would finish what Gin started (though I do think we'll get that kind of resolution whether Gin attempts a coup from within the BO to try to take it over for himself).

However, this would come at the expense of the Boss and Rum, right? Not just at the expense of their lives, but at the expense of their characters and at the expense of their roles as villains. They've been built up so much as the people who can make Gin obey them (not to mention built up as other things)... for him to just off them...


As well as the fact that why NOW??
Why wait till now and also the way he has been working giving everything to BO there is no way he would plan a Coup and then there is Vodka as well, tho he might not be a part of coup but there is a possibility he may go against gin in that case and plan to tell the Boss and rum to take care of gin.
Even I like the idea of Finishing the story with Gin, but I agree with DCUniverseAficionado that the hype of both Boss and RUM will all go to waste.
And Gosho won't take a big risk like that to just giveaway both boss and Rum just like that.
Though it is possible that gin survives and comes back after both boss and rum get caught but its highly unlikely.

Or, Goushou could be using them to make Gin just that much more terrifying of an opponent for Shinichi. That way, the tension rises as Shinichi squares off against not only the person who "killed" him, but the one that was able to defeat the most dangerous agents and masterminds of his own organization, making him the most imposing final boss for Shinichi to battle.


Though there is the matter of how he'd take out the Boss and Rum... and, again, you'd essentially be reducing Rum and the Boss (you know, who, for instance, has an identity mystery that is pretty much in a league of its own in DC) to stepping stones for Gin. Again, having these two villains with such potential have such purposes and fates... well...

Ultimately, I take it your assumption is that there's no way—or that, at the very least, would require Gosho to reach a point of skill and creativity you find it doubtful he can reach—that the Boss and/or Rum can become what Gin, for you, has come to represent. Thus, Gin already is prepared, in your eyes, to go from The Dragon to The Big Bad. That way, the odds will decrease of Gosho disappointing you with the long-awaited climax, and the odds of you disliking it will also decrease—such climaxes are often considered so hard to give proper payoff for, after all.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
Zerozaki4869
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby Zerozaki4869 » May 23rd, 2017, 11:16 am

Chikara Katsumata, is he really a Rum horse?
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby k11chi » May 23rd, 2017, 2:18 pm

Yes alongside with the darkest nightmare, who looks like a pony in fact.
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » May 23rd, 2017, 7:59 pm

Zerozaki4869 wrote:Chikara Katsumata, is he really a Rum horse?

If you mean "Rum candidate" yeah.

As a male, he fits the liquors-for-men codename pattern. He's old enough to be Rum. He appeared sans suspect box in chapter 899, and he dropped his own name in file 900. By file 906, Gosho said Rum had appeared (but this could refer to Lum Invader, so your call here). Chikara is conveniently linked to shogi which the dead Koji Haneda was interested in.

Chikara checks all three Rum-type boxes. Chikara is a strongly built man. Traditional japanese clothing for men is considered to be very old fashioned (versus the western suit) and would age him up in the eyes of those who do not know he wears a kimono because he plays shogi professionally. Other shogi players such as Haneda Shuukichi and Haneda Kohji meticulously care for their appearance because they are photographed often, and so they possess or carry beauty products more typically associated with women, like handmirrors and folding fans. Assuming Chikara possess beauty items like his peers, someone who knew might assume he was feminine. It's unclear if Chikara has a fake eye due to his limited number of appearances.

And Chikara gives Shuukichi a reason to matter, as the side of good in a Gosho-like "Shogi Showdown of Ultimate Destiny" versus the BO #2 and his mentor Kohji's killer.




Chikara is my favored Rum candidate at the moment. The others I don't like as much by process of elimination. Two of them have pretty strong "disqualifiers", assuming a loyal Rum (I hope so <_<)...

> Rumi has "Close interaction with Haibara" counting against her.
> Hyoue is doubly out by "Close interaction with Haibara" and "uncomfortably close to knowing Conan's secrets"
> Iori is basically Akako's monster butler post-flogging with a bishie stick. He's also the side character of Momiji who is the side character of Kazuha who is the side character of Heiji who is the side character of Shinichi. Maybe if he were more related to the main plot, I'd consider him viable.

> Wakita has just one major chapter to his name so he's a tough call. I think he's out by appearance alone though; he looks like a freaking beaver. Bigtime DC bad guys tend to be some variation of pretty or tough because that is still cool, but rarely are they bizarre. (Yes, I fully acknowledge this is a very arbitrary and subjective reason, but it makes artistic sense and Gosho has mostly stuck to it -- you want your glaring panel of meanies to look menacing and not have people get distracted by facial features that are too bizarre.)
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby Zerozaki4869 » May 24th, 2017, 1:30 am

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
Zerozaki4869 wrote:Chikara Katsumata, is he really a Rum horse?

If you mean "Rum candidate" yeah.

As a male, he fits the liquors-for-men codename pattern. He's old enough to be Rum. He appeared sans suspect box in chapter 899, and he dropped his own name in file 900. By file 906, Gosho said Rum had appeared (but this could refer to Lum Invader, so your call here). Chikara is conveniently linked to shogi which the dead Koji Haneda was interested in.

Chikara checks all three Rum-type boxes. Chikara is a strongly built man. Traditional japanese clothing for men is considered to be very old fashioned (versus the western suit) and would age him up in the eyes of those who do not know he wears a kimono because he plays shogi professionally. Other shogi players such as Haneda Shuukichi and Haneda Kohji meticulously care for their appearance because they are photographed often, and so they possess or carry beauty products more typically associated with women, like handmirrors and folding fans. Assuming Chikara possess beauty items like his peers, someone who knew might assume he was feminine. It's unclear if Chikara has a fake eye due to his limited number of appearances.

And Chikara gives Shuukichi a reason to matter, as the side of good in a Gosho-like "Shogi Showdown of Ultimate Destiny" versus the BO #2 and his mentor Kohji's killer.




Chikara is my favored Rum candidate at the moment. The others I don't like as much by process of elimination. Two of them have pretty strong "disqualifiers", assuming a loyal Rum (I hope so <_<)...

> Rumi has "Close interaction with Haibara" counting against her.
> Hyoue is doubly out by "Close interaction with Haibara" and "uncomfortably close to knowing Conan's secrets"
> Iori is basically Akako's monster butler post-flogging with a bishie stick. He's also the side character of Momiji who is the side character of Kazuha who is the side character of Heiji who is the side character of Shinichi. Maybe if he were more related to the main plot, I'd consider him viable.

> Wakita has just one major chapter to his name so he's a tough call. I think he's out by appearance alone though; he looks like a freaking beaver. Bigtime DC bad guys tend to be some variation of pretty or tough because that is still cool, but rarely are they bizarre. (Yes, I fully acknowledge this is a very arbitrary and subjective reason, but it makes artistic sense and Gosho has mostly stuck to it -- you want your glaring panel of meanies to look menacing and not have people get distracted by facial features that are too bizarre.)


Hmm........your analysis is quite thoughtful. I mostly concur with it.

Though I doubt the analysis of three avatars of Rum. I'm more on the line with the theory that Rum used three code named BO members to do his bidding, a old Man(Pisco), womanly man (Gin, with his hairs) and a strong man(Vodka). As Rum is the number 2 in the organization, these people would have to be obedient to Rum. They can't state it directly as it might undermine their stature in the yes of their respective subordinates.

Also there's a certain thing about Iori, he is a Rum suspect but he also looks to be an Asaka suspect. He's effeminate, he's good at hand to hand combats(he wanted to guard the door so that the assailant can't escape. In the dark he is confident to take on an armed miscreant, he has some confidence in his prowess.), He considers a scream is related to a murder attempt, rather than a heart attack, the latter being 10 times likely in Japanese conditions. So this also puts him on the shelf of the bodyguards as bodyguards are hardwired to think that scream means attempt, unlike assailants who know that they really kill a lot less people than people dying due to heart attack.
So he's both a Rum and an Asaka candidate for me.(We have no proof on Asaka's sex.)

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