Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
So I'd advise for u guys to not judge this arc too early...especially when it is not even over!!!
I'm having mixed feelings about this one. I really, really want to have a decent confrontation with this arc that would give us more questions than answers (the complete opposite of the Mystery Train, as much as I love that one). The subtle hints Gosho's been placing is giving space for tons of new characters and plot development. Current mysteries like the mystery child, Sera's family, Bourbon's next move, whose sister is whom and the Akai-Haibara confrontation are things almost everyone is looking forward too.
On the other hand, this arc's taking waaay too long. How long has this one been running and how much of the plot has even been developed? There's a lot of things going around, and with the way things are going, I don't think this arc's going to end in another 2 - 3 years, unless Gosho picks up the pace.
The bit about Yukiko's Haibara disguise being really good is really interesting, though...
There's not much left for us to wonder about "Bourbon" anymore since this reveal and Subaru being Akai is now out of the way... Unless Amuro is indeed double spy then this arc will end with the epilogue and some kind of 3rd party will get introduced between Elena, Date, Amuro and Akai thingummywuts... Shounen needs villains for the arcs until they get converted or something like that at the end.
Conan 48:69 wrote:Starting File 888, anime title could be Clash of Scarlet and Black series:
The Beginning - Manga-based on File 888-889
Zero - Manga-based on File 889-890
Puzzle - Manga-based on File 891-892
Pursuit - Manga-based on File 892-893
Suspicion - Manga-based on File 894-895
Interrogation - Manga-based on File 895-896
Return - Manga-based on File 896-897
And the series continued until File 900 BO story ended...
wow, Can't wait to see anime version of this...
Spoiler:
Shuu Tsukiyama "- Do you accumulate to eat to me other than"
Also I don't know if this was said but maybe Bourbon told Vermouth that Sherry would be on the Bell Tree Express so that he may have the chance to catch Akai. If he thought "since if it's Sherry, Akai might try to protect her (since she's Akemi's little sister) so he might be in the train", then it explains why he told Vermouth about it. Maybe his intention to board the train was implicit and his aim was to find Akai and not especially Sherry.
If he was that fixated on Akai then he'd do anything to track him down, even if it means informing the BO of Sherry's next destination. Hence his fake allegiance with the BO.
Last edited by Incomplete-tantei on May 18th, 2014, 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Incomplete-tantei wrote:
Date Wataru, most likely.
Date Wataru was killed in a traffic accident(mentioned in the last few minutes of Episode 681) where the culprit fell asleep at the wheel(implying that he was caught on site). Highly unlikely that Akai had anything to do with it.
As for Amuro, Akai, and "him": We don't really know the whole truth behind Date's death just yet. It's hard to imagine it being anyone else just because... How many other people in this series need to be connected to Amuro before it's revealed who he really is and all of his motivations? He's going to end up being someone's long-lost brother if this keeps up. We know that it's a "him", so I'm just hoping that it's Date so that we can tie up that part of the story and move on to the next thing.
As for Amuro and Sherry: We can't really take what happened on the train at face value. Gin and Vermouth had two different plans regarding the train, both of which would involve Sherry being killed with certainty, whereas Amuro's plan meant definitely taking her in alive. His use of the gun could have been simply a means of forcing her onto the helicopter, where she would be received by his Secret Police colleagues. From there, her death may have been faked by saying she jumped from the helicopter or something along those lines. Regardless as to the outcome, we can see a clear dichotomy in his methodology and that of the other Black Organization members. As I was saying even before he was revealed to be Secret Police: We still have not yet seen Amuro do anything conclusively bad. Everything he's ever done has been--at absolute best--middle of the road, but more likely, just a good guy doing some marginally "bad" things to give the appearance he's bad.
Keep in mind that Amuro had no idea who could come along or who could be listening while he was talking with Sherry. He couldn't just be like, "Listen, I'm Secret Police and I have a plan to get you out of here, you just have to trust me!". The most efficient and quickest route to getting Sherry in custody would be to force her onto the helicopter, but then Akai interfered with that. The thing to take away from this is that every "bad" thing Amuro has done, especially on the Mystery Train, have been the result of very Gosho "good-bad" red herrings and misdirection.
As for Amuro and the Secret Police: We don't quite know what's going on with Amuro just yet. We know he has police background and yet he has a connection with Elena. Unless Amuro has British connections and Elena has MI6 connections, there aren't really many other ways to sensibly connect all of this. Amuro is working in the open with the police, so he doesn't seem very concerned he will be found out. This leads one to believe that he is a spy for the Organization in the police, and yet he is still a good person through-and-through. However, Akai mentioned in 897 that he suspected Amuro was a cop from their early days in the Organization. As I posted before, I don't want Akai to be wrong about something so big when he's just come back.
The "twist" here won't be that Amuro's suddenly a bad guy but--if there is one--more likely that Amuro was sent to be a police officer by the Organization, and at some point in his life realized that the Organization was dangerous and that he was in a unique position to take them down. Unfortunately, this is at odds with some of the aforementioned factors, so I'm not so sure about it. I'm going to put the chips down on a British connection for now, I think.
After all of this, do you think Vermouth will have figured Amuro out? He confined an awful lot of his investigation to her, and she knows he's right. Does she know that he's a mole? After this, she's got to know. Would she turn him in, or would she feed him to the wolves to win favors with Gin, and get him off her back for a while? Or, would she see him as another tool to take down the organization and leave him alone, like she's left Kir alone?
My DC Fanfic: Awaking and Arising - Shiromi writes her version of the end of the series. With 100% more lesbians and immortal zombie boys. And existential crises. Lots of them. Kogorou - A character study that seeks to answer the question: Why is Kogorou the way he is? A Kindred Spirit - Sonoko and Makoto realize that they have more in common than previously realized. DC Fanfic Rants
I still love the beautiful reference with alcohol related to Bourbon being Secret Police: Bourbon in many modern cocktails is used as a replacement for Rye.
Rye was an undercover agent. Bourbon is an undercover agent that's maintained his cover and his arc started after Shuichi was considered dead, in essence Akai's replacement in the Org. in terms of undercover work. It's also a bit of beautiful symmetry, as FBI and the branch of police Rei are associated with are both domestic forces for their countries of origin.
"Data! Data! Data! I cannot make bricks without clay." -Sherlock Holmes
"New classmate of Ran looking for brother/sister, which is a BO suspect, with endings that have a different BO member who is really a spy" storyline. How many times would GA use this?
I guess we can expect a new BO member again, which is a real and threatening this time.
About Date
I thought that the animosity between Amuro and Akai started long before, when they were in BO. Maybe Amuro doesn't want others (FBI, CIA) to interfere with the affairs in Japan even if they only have one goal. But I guess, there's more to it than that, that he wanted to get deeper at the expense of Akai and Kir. I hope the GA won't forget about the timeline.
Shiromi wrote:After all of this, do you think Vermouth will have figured Amuro out? He confined an awful lot of his investigation to her, and she knows he's right. Does she know that he's a mole? After this, she's got to know. Would she turn him in, or would she feed him to the wolves to win favors with Gin, and get him off her back for a while? Or, would she see him as another tool to take down the organization and leave him alone, like she's left Kir alone?
She seems to only count individuals and not entire groups but I assume she won't do anything because of her deal...
Shiromi wrote:After all of this, do you think Vermouth will have figured Amuro out? He confined an awful lot of his investigation to her, and she knows he's right. Does she know that he's a mole? After this, she's got to know. Would she turn him in, or would she feed him to the wolves to win favors with Gin, and get him off her back for a while? Or, would she see him as another tool to take down the organization and leave him alone, like she's left Kir alone?
I posted something similar to this idea a few pages earlier, but nobody seemed to catch it...
I personally doubt Vermouth was aware of Kir's real situation, but definitely Amuro told her too much this time and that's gonna change. As for how is she gonna react, remember Vermouth already asked Kir if she was a non oficial cover agent, so my guess is she would report a mole to the Boss if she knew. I feel the only dangers to the BO she allows are Conan/Ran because of NY, and ideals blah blah blah but we haven't really had proof yet she would just look the other way if there are other threats like Akai/Kir/Amuro.
Elixir wrote:"Maybe Amuro doesn't want others (FBI, CIA) to interfere with the affairs in Japan even if they only have one goal.
I think your right about that when he was talking to Jodie and Camel he made a point to say my territory which obviously meant his jurisdiction and you know the old expression about too many cooks. I'm not a huge fan of the reveal simply because of how fierce of an enemy Bourbon could have been given his deductive reasoning. However I do like that they potentially have a real inside man unlike Kir whose leash is short and with Gin's suspicion unlikely to advance in the BO. I wonder if they'll try to use Rei to get to Vermouth since she's the only one he talks with and she seems to realize how smart he can be.
I get the feeling Amuro might still become a problem at some point. He didn't exactly try to save Sherry (He didn't intend to kill her, but I think he would have handed her over). He wanted to sacrifice Akai to get higher up in the BO. And he planned to run over that teacher friend of Jodie to get a piece of info. I wouldn't really call him a good guy, even if he's against the BO.
