Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-898: Scarlet Series!

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Post Reply
bash7353
部下の手柄は上司のもの
上司の失敗は部下の責任

Posts:
424

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by bash7353 »

Jd- wrote:
bash7353 wrote:
Jd- wrote:KIIIRRRRRR!

Akai is now definitely alive and has been mentioned and identified BY NAME amongst a large group of police officers on a fairly extensive officially-sanctioned police operation--one that will be reported to the higher-ups, even. All it would take is one person, one report, falling into the wrong hands and Kir is done for. [...]
Ehm... what Bourbon said is that he's gonna inform his superiors about what happened there, as one would expect an undercover agent to do every once in a while. Those are the same people who've been aware that Bourbon's alliance isn't with the Organization for a long time. They're police officers, but they are working on intelligence related matters, as I understand it. This isn't the kind of file Takagi or Megure could get their hands on. It's classified and they seem to have successfully kept any information regarding their operative from Black Organization members. I don't see how this would present problems concerning Kir.
This is a large police operation--not just a couple of guys doing Amuro a solid. This is something that will be recorded and will be known by a great deal of people in said police force. All of these people now know far, far, far too much information for Kir to in any way be safe whatsoever. The amount of people who knew Akai was still alive went from a handful of tried and trusted confidants (Conan, Yukiko, Yuusaku, Agasa, etc) to at least twenty if not thirty, forty, fifty, or more in the course of this one event--all people that they do not know and people who do not know the importance of keeping Akai's appearance secret. Any one of them could accidentally reveal details of the operation and any of their files could at any point fall into the wrong hands. This is all without considering that all the Black Organization and Gin need to hear is the name "Akai" and she's done for, and on top of all this suspiciously happening at Raiha Pass, and the damage done to the police cars there that won't just be swept under the rug without any leakage.

As an aside to correct something: Amuro wasn't talking about reporting in as just an undercover agent. He was saying he would explain the mess that came out of it to their superiors--everyone's superiors--to absolve them of any blame. This wasn't just giving an update on his undercover work; this was talking responsibility for the damages and explaining what he was up to (though to what extent we'll not learn). None of this changes how many people now know Akai is alive and how none of those people can be accounted for going forward.

To put it simply: There is no possible way for Conan or anyone else in his circle to account for all of these other people. The entire genesis for this arc was introducing Kir, the "wedge of steel" that'd be impossible to remove, into the Black Organization. Playing with not just that asset but her life willy-nilly without even once having anyone involved acknowledge that danger is worrisome, to say the least. It doesn't matter if we're talking about the CIA, the FBI, the Secret Police, or the Tokyo Metropolitan Police: These are large organizations and exposing such large organizations to this kind of thing is obviously not good. Thus far, we have not yet seen anything that indicates the extent of Conan and Akai's planning for what's just transpired. If it turns out like the rest of this just did, well... Hello, Mystery Train.
I realise that 'Team Shin-chan' would want to keep people who're aware Akai isn't dead in a very small circle to ensure Kir's safely. However, that ship's sailed. Bourbon found out and as he is a PSIA agent certain people within the police - those that already know Bourbon is a good guy - now know as well. The people pursuing Jodie and Camel are PSIA, too, so they already knew as well. They were part of an operation with the objective to capture Akai, so Bourbon could get deeper into the Organization. I doubt they didn't realise Akai was still alive. They will guard Akai's secret the same way they have and will guard(ed) Bourbon's secret. The latter of which they have done for quite some time and successfully so. That's why I don't think Kir will be in trouble.

If 'Team Shin-chan' didn't want more people in the loop they should've prevented Bourbon from finding out. They couldn't... That's not ideal, but it should be okay, if you ask me.
"Vad ska jag annars vara?" - "Det vet jag inte. Det måste du svara på. Men om du släpper allt du tror att du måste, och frågar dig vad du vill... Vad vill du då?"
描いた夢は叶わないことの方が多い
秀れた人を羨んでは自分が嫌になる
浅い眠りに押し潰されそう夜もある
優しい隣人が陰で牙を向いていたり

惰性で観てたテレビ消すみたいに生きることを時々辞めたくなる

人生は苦痛ですか 成功が全てですか
僕はあなたにあなたに ただ逢いたいだけ
信じたい嘘 効かない薬 帰れないサヨナラ
叫べ叫べ叫べ   逢いたいだけ
User avatar
MeiTanteixX

Posts:
1307

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by MeiTanteixX »

Mjöd wrote:If all undercover agents left the BO, it'd fall apart.

But after all this was just the prologue. Let's see how it continuous with file 900.
actually, ur wrong....prologue was over 3 chapters ago!!
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''
DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gq ... hWaNIRUu0Q
User avatar
Stopwatch

Posts:
1360

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by Stopwatch »

Can't it just be that Amuro is some hardcore journalist? :V

(Okay, but seriously, I don't think Amuro really accepted the thing with Akai being like "I regret it". That still leaves some potential for loose canon!Amuro, right?)

*goes back into denial*
Terry Pratchett wrote: The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.
bash7353 wrote:I kind of always assumed that Haneda's parents might've had names.
Spoiler: Box full of stuff
Write a Will
Image
Some year's SS by Abs. :D
Image
DCW SS from Anime Girl 4 Eva]
Image
Thanks, cinna ^^
Image[/spoiler]
The_evilbit

Posts:
40

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by The_evilbit »

The only saving grace is Furuya did not appear to accept Akai as an ally even after this clash as evidenced here. Which means he just accepted the situation and withdrew. The fact team Conan wanted to preserve the Okiya persona and not reveal the truth to the PISA means both Conan and Akai do not trust them 100% either. I agree with most other posters in this thread the next progression is a cleaning of the ranks of sorts. Have word of possible moles within the BO, activate some Gin-like agents and have Furuya, Rena and Vermouth put under the microscope. Knowing that outside influences are threating the organization may make for some good plot development and character growth. Though we need some actual bad guys this time, otherwise there really isn't any real plot development left, other than some sub-plot related questions on characters.
User avatar
ten

Posts:
258

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by ten »

From the tone of 897 it feels like this arc has been anticlimactic but I don't think the hype is over yet... There is definitely more to come shortly..

People are talking about the number of police officers that know of Akai's true status, but there is a bigger problem ... Vermouth.

What happens when Vermouth asks Amuro, "Well how did it go?" and Bourbon simply lies: "It turns out I was wrong"
Vermouth already knows something is going on with Akai, and although Vermouth promised to leave Haibara alone ... she'll have to report her suspicions about Akai to the BOSS since Amuro and Vermouth both spent so much time working on this together...

So instead of Kir being in danger ... I'm looking at Amuro being in danger from the BO, who from this boss' perspective either just wasted a ton of time undercover at Poirots' or is lying about Akai being alive.
User avatar
mihai

Posts:
303

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by mihai »

I'm not entirely satisfied with the arc so far but the last chapter was mostly predicted to some extent so it was like a confirmation. The Yuusaku facepalm was funny but Conan and Amuro were way too friendly. I was actually looking forward to an Amuro/Furuya ready throw Akai under the bus on first occasion so to speak.

Either way, I'm looking forward to what will happen inside the BO and what they are planning. I hope there are other executives as well, like Vermouth and Gin, since Boubon doesn't seem to have that much clearance, Vodka is clearly not as smart and skilled as Gin, Kir was suspected ever since she got back from the hospital and Kron and Chianti are just hitmen. So bring us few executives, Gosho :D

As for the next case, I have a bad feeling. A certain movie was just released so I guess Gosho will go watch it and hopefully some case will happen there to give him inspiration. So next there will be
Spoiler:
DB watching the new Gomera movie, case will happen and hopefully BO member appears to set up for chapter 900
User avatar
aly_angelflight
Get that squirrel!

Posts:
577

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by aly_angelflight »

Since I see several people making this mistake...

PSIA: Public Security Intelligence Agency. Works directly under the government's Ministry of Justice.
PSB: Public Security Bureau. Division of the National Police Agency.

Amuro is police. If he's affiliated with either of the two, it would be the PSB, not the PSIA.
Image
"I suppose he could have changed. I myself have noticed my growing resemblance to a daffodil.”
3DS Friend Code: 2723-9258-9521
User avatar
kkuuddoo

Posts:
199

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by kkuuddoo »

I been quite thinking a lot last night about this bourbon being a good guy, and thinking about he and elena as well as him in the MT case

What is bothering me, is him being a good guy working with vermouth, know vermouth is not completely evil, but yet, when it comes to shiho in the train, it really bothers me.

The fact he and vermouth went to the train, bourbon was to take her back and vermouth was intending to kill her, she also leaked the news to Gin.
I first thought that his fiends, (the police) will take shiho, but why work with vermouth, and does vermouth really now what he was planning ?

there was one person mentioned Elena being a spy, somehow it might be possible, and was figured out and killed calling it an accident, but used her daughter for their benefit, as that shiho is very smart, if she was actually 18 and working for them at the age of 13. Shiho never heard about her parents, only that her mom was hell angel and her father is a crazy scientist. If the organization was willing to lie to her about her real parents identify, to let her think she is really a BO born and raised. But the Tapes don't make sense, since that her mother and father were working on a truly terrifying drug.

I thought again that bourbon is a BO born and raised, but he had a change of heart, having Elena being nice to him, maybe he grew up searching for her, maybe even he found her, and trying to return her daughter to her, shiho, but again that is not possible, since We don't know what really happened, I know I am not good with making up theories but I am really thinking about this bourbon and vermouth thing, since Its really bothering me.

I will post something, if I got a better theory to share, if not I will stay quite, hehe !!
GIN X SHIHO <3<3<3
VERMOUTH IS SEXY AS HELL !!

Elena Miyano and Atsushi ..... APTX 4869 & Silver Bullet
Reozen

Posts:
4

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by Reozen »

bash7353 wrote:Okay, actually forgot a couple things.

The peacemaking. Bourbon wants to give up Akai to make a name for himself, which would in turn also kill Kir. I believe he's aware of that. For some reason, we don't entirely know what it is, Bourbon hates the FBI along with Akai. That was hinted at during the Checkmark case. Now, one phone call and Bourbon backs off. Conan actually calls him Liar while his facial expression seems to suggest he's almost joking... How are they best friends all of the sudden?

Amuro's responce "That's rich, coming from you." How is that rich? Amuro did outright deny working for PSIA. What did Conan ever lie to Bourbon about other than being a six-year-old...

And then there's Akai suddenly showing up in the car. How did Jodie and Camel not realise he's there?
Yeah, they're just joking with each other you can tell by their facial expressions.
User avatar
Okiyakaivan

Posts:
489
Contact:

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by Okiyakaivan »

on last picture, conan also cannot tell to the girl(forget the name) out loud about him n amuro...
Spoiler:
Shuu Tsukiyama "- Do you accumulate to eat to me other than"
Image
Image
User avatar
Incomplete-tantei
"No Pain, No Gain."

Posts:
359

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by Incomplete-tantei »

When Bourbon tells Conan "You're one to talk", isn't he referring to Kusuda Rikumichi?

He asked him if he knew him and Conan lied to him saying he didn't after all.
User avatar
Jd-
DCTP Staff Member

Posts:
6180

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by Jd- »

bash7353 wrote:I realise that 'Team Shin-chan' would want to keep people who're aware Akai isn't dead in a very small circle to ensure Kir's safely. However, that ship's sailed. Bourbon found out and as he is a PSIA agent certain people within the police - those that already know Bourbon is a good guy - now know as well. The people pursuing Jodie and Camel are PSIA, too, so they already knew as well. They were part of an operation with the objective to capture Akai, so Bourbon could get deeper into the Organization. I doubt they didn't realise Akai was still alive. They will guard Akai's secret the same way they have and will guard(ed) Bourbon's secret. The latter of which they have done for quite some time and successfully so. That's why I don't think Kir will be in trouble.

If 'Team Shin-chan' didn't want more people in the loop they should've prevented Bourbon from finding out. They couldn't... That's not ideal, but it should be okay, if you ask me.
They could have all the suspicions that they wanted (all of them informed purely by Amuro and no one else, who had no hard proof of anything and such why he crafted this plan to force Akai to confirm himself in the first place), but until Akai appeared as himself, there was no proof that he was still alive. Even all of Amuro's deductions revealed in the Okiya conversation were still circumstantial and it wasn't until Akai appeared in the back of that car and then went back to talk to the police carefree that undeniable proof existed that he was still alive. That is where the really questionable behavior came into play.
Incomplete-tantei wrote:When Bourbon tells Conan "You're one to talk", isn't he referring to Kusuda Rikumichi?

He asked him if he knew him and Conan lied to him saying he didn't after all.
That, and as Kor said, using Mouri as his face for deductions. In general, it's clear that Conan is dishonest about a lot of things, so I don't think he meant just any one thing here.
sherryx

Posts:
20

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by sherryx »

Incomplete-tantei wrote:When Bourbon tells Conan "You're one to talk", isn't he referring to Kusuda Rikumichi?

He asked him if he knew him and Conan lied to him saying he didn't after all.
That's a pretty good observation. It would be the only time Conan outright lied to him after all.

I think I mentioned it before, but Amuro and Conan don't look like they became friends even after they know they are on the same side. Their smiles in the last page look fake and even dangerous, so I think their relationship is somewhat hostile now but they won't do anything to that threatens each other's safety just yet.

Which brings me to my next point: has Amuro considered selling out Conan to the Organisation? I know he originally wanted to get Akai to get closer to the boss and also because of his personal vendetta, but proving that APTX 4869 worked (occasionally) should also be valuable information to the Organisation that would increase their trust in him. It would also be much easier (swipe his fingerprints, compare them with Kudo Shinichi's in the police database and whatnot).
conan998

Posts:
12

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by conan998 »

how about this for a twist ---that women at the back(forgot her name) or more probable a customer is vermouth in disguise???
Kamite
Just keep swimming. Just keep swimming.

Posts:
614

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by Kamite »

When conan mention that Yukiko is good a disguising people who are close to her, Conan mention that the haibara disguise was TOO good. Could it mean that Yukiko knew Haibara as a child and know Elena and Atsushi from somewhere? Seems Yukiko is more involve with the BO than just with Vermouth.
Post Reply