Espionage - Round 5 (Spy and Informants Win)

[dumytru]

The final poster.



@SA: why the smiles? It's actually pretty difficult to think of an order when you have to. I just thought it's an interesting way to do it. Also, in previous rounds you did quoted the posts with smiles, but it was never considered an actual order.

Um, yeah. I had no idea MR was the Detective, but I probably didn't even bothered about it, because I knew she was going to get lynched. It was like a cover for me.

[bash7353]

I have taken some notes while playing as well. Here are some of my thoughts:

Day 1

Okay, things seem to start off as expected. Both Informants try to identify themselves early on. They're supposed to use one/two smileys for their first post of the phase and none at all for their second one. PhantomWriter does exactly that and dumytru makes out one of his allies. Togop, on the other hand, doesn't post a second time. The Spy seems to think Jecka is the second Informant...

Bad news for Spy. While he learns the identity of one of his Informants, that seems to be the player to be lynched Day 1. I've already received four votes for PhantomWriter and he's saying he'll self-vote on top of that.

And seriously, PhantomWriter, saying that you're not going to vote just ups your chances of being lynched because then people know there's already one vote on you, and at this stage even one other vote could tip the scales.

I really like how Jelitto changed her vote from PhantomWriter to Kleene following this. Now PhantomWriter is saying he won't vote himself, after all, so it's down to three votes, but it's still not looking good for him.

Stop was kind enough to let me in on what she was thinking. Two players started off their first post of Day 1 with two questions in a row, PhantomWriter and MoonRaven. She thinks that may have been the order and the two of them may be the Informants. Consulting her list she found both names, but she wants to be careful. Every Civilian's list contains both of those names as MoonRaven is the Detective. She's right to want to be careful. However, if PhantomWriter is actually lynched Day 1 as it seems he will be, Stop might end up considering her theory vindicated. That'll be interesting to watch play out...

I've decided to tally up the votes that Detective and Spy receive. It obviously doesn't mean much and won't show who'll win, but I thought it might be interesting. MoonRaven 1 - dumytru 0


Day 2

Then I'm voting for a random person. I apologize in advance if I vote for a civilian or the detective to get lynched. :I

Oh, the irony.

[...]

Edit: SA, you said something about a self-vote to be the order.
Now that I think about it, PhantomWriter also wanted to vote for himself but we convinced him is wasn't a good idea.
I don't think it's very likely, but it's worth mentioning, at the very least.

The irony, yeah. Thinking Jecka is his remaining ally, dumytru is trying to set up his own Informant as Informant...

This phase the Informant is supposed to not use any smileys at all in the first post. Both Jecka and Togop do that, so I doubt dumytru will realise he's wrong...

Yup, he still thinks Jecka, but isn't sure. The reason for him not killing, though, seems to be that he just wants to see how people react to this. What the Spy doesn't know yet is that the votes will tie and that no one will self-vote. I'm curious how players will react to that.

MoonRaven 4 - dumytru 2


Day 3

@ MoonRaven
I find you a bit suspicious, that's why. it's not the punctuation though.

I think he's just acting strange because it's the first time he plays Espionage.
I'm not saying he's a civilian for sure though.

The Detective that enough Civilians believe is suspicious for her to almost get lynched is defended by the Spy. That's quite something.

dumytru now realises that he was wrong about Jecka, and that Togop is the remaining Informant.

MoonRaven 7 - dumytru 3
The Civilians seem to continue suspecting the Detective, that's not good for them. Only Yuri's self-vote saves MoonRaven this time...


Day 4

dumytru suspects 10221 might be this round's Detective. This Day's Order provides different keywords to allow Togop to convey his opinion. His post uses the phrase making clear he agrees and thus dumytru moves to submit his Kill.

This is something I thought could happen since Day 1:

The thing about MoonRaven is that yes, I think she's an Informant and it's partly because on D1 I spotted a potential Order for PhantomWriter and MoonRaven to be Informants and added to their behaviour and activity it made sense. Of course, then PhantomWriter turned out to actually be an Informant, which further backed things up. However, if she isn't then I'm basically taking focus away from the actual Informant and Spy so I'm probably going to say less about MoonRaven from now on, though the suspicion still stands.

Stop is kinda implying that MoonRaven is on her list and dumytru already knows she's wrong about the remaining Informant. But I guess the bigger issue is that MoonRaven is on everyone's list just as she would be if she was an Informant. If Civilians are gonna take a look at their lists, some might be inclined to agree with Stop's theory and vote the Detective.

I guess that's exactly what happened...

MoonRaven 10 - dumytru 3


Day 5

Detective's dead which means there's no reason to keep lists secret any longer. The Spy, though, doesn't have a list to begin with, but can't afford to stand out by either being the only one not publish a list, or publishing one that is identified as fake. In theory, it should be possible to create a list that can't be exposed as fake. Now that the Detective's identity has been revealed and the Informants have identified themselves, all the information should be there. In theory, anyway.

1. shinichi'sapprentice
2. MoonRaven
3. Togop
4. PhantomWriter
5. Jellitto
6. Kleene Onigiri
7. RoboG55

That seems to have worked out. dumytru should be able to blend in that way for now. Togop, on the other hand, has been compromised. That's essentially the default outcome resulting from the Detective's death when playing with these new rules. All remaining Informants lose their cover, but then again, town's goal is to catch the Spy, so it shouldn't be a big deal. I hope it won't, anyway.

Oh, they tied... And again they only did because of a self-vote. Well, it's not like they were close to lynching the Spy, so I guess it doesn't really make a difference.

MoonRaven 10 - dumytru 3


Day 6

Ah, Togop is back.

For today, you should definitely do a better organization. And keep in mind that I'll be active and vote as to either arrange a tie or kill a non-spy . So would the spy, MUHAHAHAHA.

That's awesome! Especially considering that they really don't need to obstruct the Civilians' efforts to win. At this point they're still so far off. Well, we'll see.

Oh, now you wanna lynch dumytru? With less than one hour to go? Well, you're right, but I think you're a bit too late...

MoonRaven 10 - dumytru 5


Also, in case anybody cares about how helpful or not the lists would've been had Civilians decided to make all of them public, I've added how often each player appears to this topic's second post.

[shinichi'sapprentice]

oh ok. why am i starting to think that i played so badly this round. -_- even Togop keeps saying that it didn't help the civilians by pretending as a detective. should i change that part of me in the future?
that is kinda contradicting though. Togop said you guys didn't know who the detective is until her death? and you said you already know she was gonna get lynched? er. nvm. i'm confused.

and about the smileys... when i saw it, my first thought is... "okay, who are you, you spy, you?! you played in Round 2 i see,.. eh? now, it doesn't sound Fujiwara-ish if that's actually the order. Raifuujin??! no, can't be... T_T" and as i said, it could be an order from anyone. aside from Raifuujin, first serious suspect if that was actually the order was Stopwatch. she was starting to list possible identification orders as well but hasn't noticed the smileys at all??! and then when i saw your fake list, and started rereading all your posts, i'm like... "you??!" xDDDD as for my other suspected orders...
if it was the hugs, then informants = PhantomWriter and Kleene Onigiri and spy = Yuri Iwamoto, Jecka, or [???]
if it was the edits, then informants = PhantomWriter and Stopwatch and spy = [???]
if it was the smileys, then informants = PhantomWriter and Togop and spy = *knows about Round 2*

Fujiwara was a strong spy suspect D1. it's more of a bait for the rest of the other days but i should've known that since Togop is the other informant, errrrrrrrr... he didn't talk much either so and i honestly didn't know that when you said i should stop doing what i was doing, i thought you were trying to tell me, "i know you're trying to lure out the informants and i'm not gonna fall for it! " xDD i didn't know you were trying to deliberately point out about my invisible fake investigates. and so far, the only people who said they saw it are: Togop, Raifuujin. anybody else? i thought for sure that dumytru saw it because he quoted the very first post with my fake investigate # 1. but with what he said so far until now, he sounds like he didn't see it. the detective didn't see it either. and i wonder if Kleene managed to find it when i quoted her post saying that i wasn't posting any fake investigates D:

and about the detective's death... did you have the same dilemma as round 3? i understand that looking for the other informant may be a good strategy. but... you sure should have another person in mind that you think was the detective. i was waiting for someone to ask 'who did you thought was the detective?' unlike earlier rounds where the list contains the detective/spy or both(and in R3, i thought it was Stopwatch who were detectives that's why i voted Jellitto), this round, the lists always contains the detective! so outing the detective if you chose to go with the list even if you really think someone is the informant, is high. just like i did with Togop, but still considered him as possible detective, but his quietness proved him evil so yeah, if you thought MoonRaven was the other informant, who did you thought the detective was?

[MoonRaven]

Ooh, the final roster looks great! I guess I should also give out my log and thoughts about this game.

First of all, this was one brilliant and exciting(and stressful) game. I'm definitely signing up for the next round whenever it will come.

Prep phase

Okay, I'm a detective... I'm so screwed.
I decide to give a subtle hint about my role: "The game is on!" Quote from BBC Sherlock said by the main character himself.
I can't form opinions yet since I don't know everyone's style that well.
Side with fake investigation. It'll help us to win hopefully!

Day 1
Silence mostly.
Investigation: dumytru, Jecka, Kleene Onigiri(random is random)
Vote: PhantomWriter, he seems a good suspect atm.

Day 2
The first results plus the result of investigation. Kleene is not the spy. Oh, first informant is down. And oh, I got one vote too. Nothing to worry, the first votes this time are shot in the dark.
I agree, m_s is most likely a civilian.
Investigation: Fujiwara, Togop, Raifuujin(still quite random)
Vote: Jellitto

Day 3
There was no kill?! And no lynch while Jellitto and I tied. Oh dear. I'm so screwed. Paranoia rises.
Togop is not the spy.
Stop is bugging me. I think RH is most likely a civilian. And what the hell have I done to make myself suspicious than being on everyone's list?
Second hint that I'm a detective: "Why can't I be smart like the characters in DC?"(Hello, the majority ov the characters are either self-proclaimed detectives or work for some law enforcement)
Investigation: Yuri Iwamoto, Stopwatch, Jellitto
Vote: Jellitto

Day 4
I'm still alive??? And Jellitto was killed. No lynch but I'm the other part of the tie. And of course the investigation says that Jellitto is not the spy!
Time to write up everything and tell what I know. I'm going to die anyways next. Adn I don't want to be killed on the other topics for being a lousy detective who left her fellow civilians without anything.
I say civilian when it's what I suspect based on the thread and not-spy when it's the result of my investigation.
Hint of being a detective: "I rather be killed by the spy than be lynched by my fellow civilians."(or something along those lines)
Investigation: Yuri Iwamoto(suspicious), dumytru(suspicious), RainHeaven(because I needed one more name)
Vote: Stopwatch(revenge!)

Day 5
I died and SA was killed. Yuri is not the spy(I got the result as an error from our GM but who cares. I still wanna find out who's the spy while only reading the thread)
Interesting note: Stop doesn't comment my death at all even though has been suspecting me since the beginning.
Lists are out. Stop is the first. I wrote the lists up on my notes. Togop is indeed on every list just like dumytru points out. Hmm... suspicious. My main suspects after excluding players are: Stop, dumytru and Raifuujin. Stop for putting up the list first and not bothering to comment my death after so strongly suspecting me. dumytru for putting the list up last this far and then pointing out Togop: could be a distraction tactic. Raifuujin for being quite silent throughout the game but for some reason I feel like soemthing is off.
People pointing fingers at Yuri's direction. (me: "no, no, don't do that!")

Day 6
You tied. You honestly tied! And spy didn't even need to kill. Well, good tactic for them. More people left to point fingers at.
People suspecting Stop now. (me: "yeah, now you have a bit better chance of winning than voting Yuri.")

Day 7
You lost. I'm curious to know who did you suspect for being the detective since I was the 'could-be-informant' to many.
After thoughts: I survived longer than I believed and for that I'm happy. I didn't screw too badly but damn the responsibility and paranoia when being a detective.

[dumytru]

@SA I had no idea that MR was the Detective. But I knew she was going to get lynched, so I didn't bothered to suspect her at all(it was indeed a mistake on my side)

This round proved to teach me (and others) a lot.

And I didn't noticed your FI. I guess I wasn't paying much attention.

@MR I was the last to post my *fake* list because of my timezone.

[dumytru]

Double post coming!

I've finally got some free time to edit my diary.
Tomorrow I have a final exam and I studied--- absolutely nothing.

Ante scriptum
Ok, so this is me writing a diary.
It's kind of late now, and I really have to go to sleep but I have to wait for a render to finish, so I'll start the diary now.
Right--

---

Prep Phase
I'm the Spy. Awesome. Let's kill the Detective and fail the exams coming up next week!
Today I wasn't really in the mood to think of something to post. I just did some summary of the "Fake investigation" strategy. Honestly, I don't really care if we're going to do it or not.

Here's a summary of the Prep Phase Order (edit: you must've read it three times already lol)
Order: in the very first post of Day 1 use a single emoticon of your own choice, then in the second use none. The second informant shall use two instead of one.
Completion: If you want to send me a message, include it in a post, then point out that Togop and googleearth's avatar is missing from the poster and link to my post which contains the two respective images.
If you have suspicion on anyone (aka: if you want me to kill a certain player), then use a pair of keywords (eg "kind of" and "acting", "strange" and "like") in your post along with the players' name.

I'm getting really tired now, not sure if I still make any sense, but I hopefully do.
If we decide not to post anything (thought that's what ESPIONAGE is all about, discussing) then I'll have the informants vote certain players. In the worst case, I'll narrow it down to a list of a couple of players. Then I'll provide further identification orders (probably gonna use the emoticon thing again).

---

Day 1

Now, my timezone is not really helping. I can't be active at all in the first 7 hours of the day. And I can't really stay awake until the phase ends either.

PhanthomWriter posted and it looks like he could be my first informant.
Wait-- I just woke up and my brain's not working properly. Did they decided not to post anything at all after all? *goes and checks*

---

Just got home from school. PhantomWriter just posted his second post. Looks like he is the informant. Also, Togop could be one.
Last round's spy is this one's Informant!
Now I have to decide who to kill. And killing the Detective so soon is kinda boring.

It's less then three hours till phase end. I've been busy all day. Oh.
Let's see. I underestimated the power of emoticons.
So, yeah. Jecka and PhantomWriter did the orders. Might have to wait for some other players to post, but I think they are the infromants.

I decided to kill RoboG55 (using random.org)

---

Day 2

Interesting that SA is not joining despide the fact that he wanted to do the Fake Investigations. (edit: yeah, totally missed it)
Not sure yet if I'd join the FI or not. SA is not doing it. If he's the Detective, that's wierd. If he's a civilian, it might be a trap. Oh.

I also have to watch for my own mistakes. And I have the feeling I have done such mistakes (like actually posting in Day 1).

---

I don't think I'll let random.org decide today's kill as well. Let's see---
Maybe no kill? But what do I get with this strategy? It's going to create confusion, that's for sure.
My thoughts at the time: (edit: It's actually what I've been thinking out-loud) what could the players deduct from this? Other than Togop, nobody voted himself, so in D2 it's probably going to be the same, or better. (no self voters)
This means that the Spy sent the orders/actions indeed. So why would the Spy decide not to kill?

I'm sure somebody will say something like this: "They probably don't know who is the second informant"; "But then why they killed in D1?" "Maybe they took a risk, but now that one informant is down, they can't do that".
God, I have only 10 minutes to decide what to do. Is is worth not killing?

At this point I don't think I'll hit the Detective anyway (I had no suspect whatsoever), and with more players in the game, there would be more "Spy suspects" when the Detective is dead.
Yeah, I'll go for no kill Day 2 and see what happens.

---

Togop and Yuri are also on my list of possible informants (note that Togop used "kinda" two times, but never used "acting". That's not the order, but I can't just ignore it)

---

Day 3

No-kill Day 2 produced the exact results I expected. Oh well.
SA might be the Detective. He proposed the fake-investigations, yet he isn't doing it yet.
But I won't kill him yet. I'll look for other suspects for now.

---

Day 4

I asked Togop about SA being a detective. Still waiting for a reply.
I thought of an advantage for no-kill Day 2, I stated that I have a theory about it in the forum, and now I forgot it. Oh god.
This post contains what's written my my diary.

I need to be careful before posting this. There's a risk that it'll make me suspect.

---

Notice I skipped D5 in my diary. I was kinda busy.
I've written only that It was fun discussing with Fuji at the end of Day 5.

---

Last Day

This is the last Day. It was decided we'll lynch Stop.
Kleene is the only one suspecting me (edit: and Stop, a-ha!). This means I could've done better? Idk. (edit: yes, I could've done a lot better)
It looks like there's no way we can tie again.

---

Oh, I just read the votes from the previous day. Stopwatch voted for herself? Then how come some people actually think she could be the Spy?
It was fun.

Post-scriptum: This is still kinda raw, but I'm to tired to edit it further.

I read everything up until now, but I might forgotten to answer a question or two. If that's true, tell me.
I can't really focus on anything at the moment.

Edit (this must be the 10th edit): Looks like I used "Arrested" instead of "Lynched" for Stop.
Sorry about that.

[MoonRaven]

@MR I was the last to post my *fake* list because of my timezone.

oh, I see. Well it was just my thoughts at the time.

[shinichi'sapprentice]

ahH?!! your edited diary sounds like you were very exhausted throughout this round. you were a good spy! (ok. maybe that's not the very best adjective to describe the spy,.. you were a/n evilcrafty spy! xD)

take a break and good luck with your finals! for a very busy person, you're actually the only person trying to help me keep discussions going. good cover! >xD see you next round! and awesome poster! \o/

[Stopwatch]

The diary reminded me, why *did* my accidental self-vote make me susp? I didn't get it then and I don't get it now :/.

[shinichi'sapprentice]

this is just what i think. i don't know about the others.

D5 votes were:

Fujiwara (Yuri Iwamoto, miyano_shiho)
Yuri Iwamoto (Fujiwara, dumytru, Kleene Onigiri)
Stopwatch (Stopwatch, Jecka, Raifuujin)
Togop (Togop, RainHeaven)

of course, it's just natural to feel that whoever might have caused the tie is probably the spy. you posted less than an hour to go to phase end that you forgot to vote. if you didn't see it in my log, here,..

@D5 now...

...I didn't even vote. Sorry D:.

i wanted to post this ↓ when i saw this ↑

It is now Day 5!

Please note: Since results were delayed this time I'll extended the next phase by one hour. Day 5 will end at 5pm CDT, 6pm EDT, 11pm GMT, midnight CEST, 1am EEST, 6am PHT. After that everything will be back to normal again. Please excuse the inconvenience.

but i didn't wanna ruin it for the spy whoever he is. and dead people shouldn't talk. it was really hard not talking about the game xD

i thought that was a strategy to clear yourself of being spy if you're actually the spy. and then you've been thinking of targeting the other informant, too. while that is good as a civilian strategy, it can also be a cover if you're the spy, by just saying, "i thought he/she was the informant"...

so yeah, that's what i think.

who did you thought was the detective?

[Kleene Onigiri]

Didn't have time to post yet, sorry XD

Congrats spy team \o/

I don't have such a diary :V Mostly my thoughts were; that persons is suspicious, mostly because of this and that... then again they said this and that and makes them townish.... *rolls around clueless*

@stop: what SA said ^^

[miyano_shiho]

Congratulations Spy and Informants! Good job to the detective too!

I don't have such a diary :V Mostly my thoughts were; that persons is suspicious, mostly because of this and that... then again they said this and that and makes them townish.... *rolls around clueless*

Same.

[Stopwatch]

The Spy just has to *not die* at that stage; that was the only objective at that point in the game. Self-voting would easily risk that, and why did no one point out at the time that I had an extra hour? :/

Leaving this thread now. Good game, guys.

[bash7353]

There is no rule in Espionage saying that transparent text isn't allowed.

I have some concerns about that.

Before starting this round, when rewriting the rules, I stole some ideas, essentially their entire 'Guildeline' section, from Mafia. I was trying to be very clear about what is allowed and what isn't, but that isn't always easy. Right now the rules say

— Encrypted codes or any initiative that requires knowledge of the role you hold in order to prove yourself to others is not allowed.

We should clarify that. Perhaps that's something to talk about in the Rule Discussion Topic.

[bash7353]

"Ditch Day 1" ...it worked...?! xDD

*after 13 hours...* -_-

alright,.. Let's get to work!

i nominate Fujiwara to be voted Day 2. you guys don't have to provide reasons if you want to have another candidate for the lynch. buttttt, give a damn good reason on why you are voting for whoever person you're voting. i have my reasons. but i choose to disclose it after i see a good number of discussions from you all. Let's do this!

SA, you're kinda strange kinda here. Not that I think you're the spy, just that I don't remember you suspecting someone on solid grounds but refusing to explain before.

I think I may have an idea of what you're doing, and while I'd abstain from telling everyone what I think it is just in case, I'd tell you "Don't. It's too obvious."

I'm really curious. What was that all about? Both 10221 and Togop, what were you trying to accomplish with that?