ESPIONAGE: Round Four (Spy & Informants Win!!)

[miakakiri]

Ok, so it doesn't sound like anyone has anything just yet?
Um.... so.... I guess probably you vote for people who aren't on your list so that you avoid offing the detective?
~_~* I need to place my vote early-ish because I won't be available closer to the end of the phase--need to go get taxes done, and then I have a psych eval..... ~_~* Crazy week.

[Jd-]

Ok, so it doesn't sound like anyone has anything just yet?
Um.... so.... I guess probably you vote for people who aren't on your list so that you avoid offing the detective?
~_~* I need to place my vote early-ish because I won't be available closer to the end of the phase--need to go get taxes done, and then I have a psych eval..... ~_~* Crazy week.

It's currently Prep Phase, so the only role with an action for right now is the Spy sending an Order to be delivered Day One to their Informants. Votes and such aren't available just yet; not till Day One begins in about 14 hours'ish.

[Togop]

Well, we should still start some discussion now...

Ok, so it doesn't sound like anyone has anything just yet?
Um.... so.... I guess probably you vote for people who aren't on your list so that you avoid offing the detective?
~_~* I need to place my vote early-ish because I won't be available closer to the end of the phase--need to go get taxes done, and then I have a psych eval..... ~_~* Crazy week.

And tell the spy who isn't the detective? No, this won't work. We need to cooperate.
There are three facts we should base our strategy on.
1) We need to reveal as little people as possible who aren't on our lists.
2) We need to accomodate for people who wouldn't follow the strategy or are not active enough to follow.
3) We need to choose a non-detective.

One way to achieve that is through a voting alliance.
- If there are four people who testify that someone isn't on their list, then that person is not the detective, as at least one of the four is a civillian.
- If we get a bunch of votes for the afromentioned person, they'll be arrested.
-Everyone who doesn't join the voting alliance can safely vote randomly (including everyone in the random selection,egardless of whether they are on the list or not) thus not revealing any information about their list.
If we do it carefully and are lucky, we'll only reveal one person as a non-detective, and arrest them anyway, so the spy gains nothing.

I still haven't figured out the details, especially the procedure to chose who to vote for while revealing minimum info, so input is welcome. Or you can suggest a completely different plan, if you have a better one.

PS> All those posting confirmations... I'd think that's more suited for a PM...

[Jd-]

Togop is right; it's an interesting conundrum and one I've thought about leading up to this round. I don't quite have an answer just yet, but hopefully something will present itself by the start of Day One.

[Fujiwara]

Well, we should still start some discussion now...

One way to achieve that is through a voting alliance.
- If there are four people who testify that someone isn't on their list, then that person is not the detective, as at least one of the four is a civillian.
- If we get a bunch of votes for the afromentioned person, they'll be arrested.
-Everyone who doesn't join the voting alliance can safely vote randomly (including everyone in the random selection,egardless of whether they are on the list or not) thus not revealing any information about their list.
If we do it carefully and are lucky, we'll only reveal one person as a non-detective, and arrest them anyway, so the spy gains nothing.

I think we should be able to make this work, at least for Day 1 - afterwards there are of course other considerations as well (i.e. actually catching the spy ). I'll write more on the subject later, once I've thought it over, but I've got to go snowboarding now.

Just 2 important things everyone should keep in mind:
1. Do not suggest any names until we've decided how this is exactly going to work out! Any name you suggest as not being on your list is a name the spy can cross of his list of detective suspects.

2. Even if you don't agree with the plan, don't say whether you're going to vote for people who are not on your list! Again, if you say you'll vote for people who aren't on your list and then you do exactly that, you're giving the spy information.

[Stopwatch]

I think we should figure out the most susp people partway through D1. Maybe three or so. And at that point people have to narrow it down through debate. At the end of the debate it should be fairly clear who the winner is so voting can begin? I was mostly building off Togop's idea, but I don't think that just saying a name will work and giving multiple names out can narrow things down so that's not ideal either.

[Iwamoto Yuri]

Well, maybe we should let random.org pick a name?

[Stopwatch]

Well, maybe we should let random.org pick a name?

No. We gain no information from that.

[Jd-]

Something minor but possibly impacting occurred to me a few minutes ago. I'm not sure if I should point it out now, though, as it gives the Spy a lot of time to plan leading up to the end of Day One. If the Spy is one of the veteran players, I think they'll get an advantage by the start of Day Two if they realize this certain something.

[Iwamoto Yuri]

Well, as much as I hate to say this, the detective doesn't gain anything either if we vote from lists. We need to give the detective information by using your list or not doing so... We know the detective is on our list so it's dangerous to use it. At the same time not voting from your list can help the spies to cross off things from the not detective list. WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!!
And if that is voting for no reason at all by random.whatever at least the Detectives can get info by finding lists from murdered civilians and crossing off names by using investigate too, then so be it that we don't discover anything ourselves.

[bash7353]

In theory Togop's suggestion sounds pretty good. If we get four people to agree on someone, we can vote them and e sure it's not the Detective. And at that point we don't have to worry about revealing that this particular person isn't the Detective as they'll be arrested anyway. But there are problems with this.

Are we just saying a random Civilian is supposed to name someone who's not on their list, so someone they know is not the Detective? And then three people will follow by saying that that person doesn't appear on their list either? How do we know there are three more Civilians who don't have that player on their list? And if not, do we start over with another name? How do we know the Spy and the Informants won't suggest names to see if there are Civilians who concur 'cause if not they're probably the Detective. And if Civilians do concur another evil person in the game could try to nominate someone else. I think that may especially problematic when Spy and Informants have had time to reveal their identities to one another and possibly coordinate efforts.

So, for I'm advising no one to go ahead and reveal anything about their list. Not someone who's on your list, not someone who isn't. Not whether you'll vote from your list or someone who isn't on your list. First we have to figure out what exactly we wanna do.

[Stopwatch]

Well, as much as I hate to say this, the detective doesn't gain anything either if we vote from lists. We need to give the detective information by using your list or not doing so... We know the detective is on our list so it's dangerous to use it. At the same time not voting from your list can help the spies to cross off things from the not detective list. WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!!
And if that is voting for no reason at all by random.whatever at least the Detectives can get info by finding lists from murdered civilians and crossing off names by using investigate too, then so be it that we don't discover anything ourselves.

No. Think about what you're saying here >_<. I don't have the time or patience to explain it right now.

[Iwamoto Yuri]

Well, as much as I hate to say this, the detective doesn't gain anything either if we vote from lists. We need to give the detective information by using your list or not doing so... We know the detective is on our list so it's dangerous to use it. At the same time not voting from your list can help the spies to cross off things from the not detective list. WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!!
And if that is voting for no reason at all by random.whatever at least the Detectives can get info by finding lists from murdered civilians and crossing off names by using investigate too, then so be it that we don't discover anything ourselves.

No. Think about what you're saying here >_<. I don't have the time or patience to explain it right now.

I am, and honestly I think we should try to get a tie together like last round. People should post who they vote as well so a list can be made and we can avoid someone being voted for too many times.
How about that? Still think it should be random, but if we vote together the detective can do something while being safe(r)

[Jd-]

To whichever person is the Detective: Please be careful in this round. I have a feeling it's going to be a... very rough ride.

As for seeking a tie, I'm OK with it. But, we should probably keep in mind that this likely isn't going to play out like it did last time. Our only viable options are either random voting (while, as googleearth said, not mentioning if it is or is not from your list) or arranging a tie. I'm not really sure which is going to be best, though.

[Iwamoto Yuri]

As I said, this is why we have to make sure everyone mentions who they vote.