ESPIONAGE: Round Three (Spies & Informants Win)

[Kleene Onigiri]

oh. my bad. but yeah, from what i've watched so far in mafia, i think in 1 day, i saw two phase change. maybe i'm using the wrong terminology here. but i'm sure I saw one arrest and one kill in the whole 24 hours. . . ahH!! whatever. i don't know anything!

*goes back to posting*

Was probably a night phase. Because you can arrest during day and night.
Votes result in lynching, which happens at days.

[Jellitto]

What the Detective team was doing (couldn´t think this a better name)

(Kain hadn´t much to add to this when I asked, so this is mostly from my point of view)

Day 1

At day one we didn´t know what to do as we had no information whatsoever. I, as our vote/action sender, randomly voted for Team 8 (Jecka & miyano_shiho) and decided to investigate Team 3 (shinichi´sapprentice & googleearth). I decided since Kain had no better ideas.

We both were suspicious of Jd- in general, especially when he stopped the nominations. The arranged tie wasn´t the best for us since it didn´t give us any info of others´ lists.

In hindsight, I don´t know why I didn´t step up and say that´s not very good for the Detectives or question it aloud. Maybe I was too nervous that the Spies may pick it up and kill us straight away, maybe I just thought to go with it this time without saying a word. I don´t know. I don´t remember the thoughts I had then.

That led to that neither of us posted anything. I knew that Kain is a quiet player as someone who spectated round 1 and I´m not much better. I had been nominated and voted on round 2 for the same reason so I should´ve known it; but I assume I completely forgot that the exact moment I got to know I was in the Detective team and became very nervous.

But that led to our untimely demise.

Day 2

We got to know that Team 3 wasn´t the Spy team. I couldn´t think them as Informants from what they had said, so I believed they were civilians.

When Jd- nominated us because we had been inactive in the topic and explaining it with this;

Jd-, it's unlikely that the spy team voted, but didn't kill due to inactivity. I, at least, would do that in the same message. The only team that self-voted was shinichi'sapprentice and googleearth. It is also possible the spy wanted to divert suspicion away or hasn't identified the informant.

Actually, I don't think it's really as easy as that. Deciding which team to kill in a game with so few teams is something that both team members would want to add input on, so I don't think just one of the team members would be handling it. Sending in a random vote with a "we'll decide who to kill based on how the topic goes" sort of thing seems likely to me, with them just losing track of the timezone and countdown to phase ending in the meantime. At least, that's just how it seems to me. It's different when it's just you, but as you can see from most of the teams here, everyone wants to get their teammate's input on their actions. I can very easily envision the Spy team saying, "Let's vote for X & Y temporarily just so we don't accidentally vote and then send in the kill later after we see how the topic's going."

I started to suspect them being Informants, because in my opinion Jd- ignored completely valid possibilities. While his theory is a possibility as well, I said in my day 3 post I find it unlikely because that way the Spies would have made a grave mistake when not posting anything.

Since Togop said it was suspicious that Jd- stopped the nomination process, I was inclined to believe that Team 6 (Conan-chandesune & Togop) were civilians Actually, I wasn´t so sure about Conan-chandesune but I wanted to trust Togop. Same for Team 2 (Raifuujin & Fujiwara) but they ended up being killed that day.

We tried to defend ourselves and the way Jd- answered to my post strengtened my suspicions but I definitely wasn´t sure of it at this point.

Neither of us had better ideas than to investigate Team 4 (Jd- & Kaito Lady) so we did so. I voted for Team 7 (Kamite & breva) because I thought we were likely to have at least two votes and voting someone with one vote already increased our chance of survival.

The second day ended with a tie of multiple teams so I thought not many had interest to vote for us but I was wrong of that.

Day 3

At day 3 Jd- suggested a voting alliance and nominated us again. Great.

At first I hoped people would not go with Jd-´s suggestion but when three of them agreed... well, I and Kain thought that our game was there.

I left two important posts:

I understand we appear to be suspicious because of day 1 (if not for something else), okay, but to me someone being so suspicious doesn´t mean they are the Spies.

I still think that the Spy team would not let themselves to appear as suspicious as we appear right now. If I was on the Spy team, I would do everything I could to not stand out. Not posting in the topic at day 1 and after that not kill anyone would be a grave mistake for the Spy team to make, because it doesn´t take long before someone starts to vote you because of that.

First, I tried to point out that we were actually unlikely Spies.

I have to say though that I trust the most the same people as you Jd-, and for the same reasons. I don´t trust anyone completely, but they´re at the moment the least suspicious. I trust Team 3 the most because of their ”suspiciousness” as it could be said. I also have the feeling that Jd- and KL aren´t the Spy team either. I´m not sure if they are Informants though as I´m not sure of anyone.

It sure seems that we´re doomed though if we don´t get other people to vote on someone else as much we´re going to have votes...

Then I laid out all the information we had.

Jd- said he trusted Teams 10, 6 and 3 so I included that because they were the teams I trusted too. I wasn´t so sure about Team 10 (Cider & dumytru) but after PMing with Kain, I started to think they were probably civilians. I said however that I´m not completely trusting anyone right after.

Then I specifically said I don´t think Team 3 is suspicious. Then I said that Team 4 is not the Spy team but I kept the idea of them being Informants there. In hindsight, I should´ve maybe been clearer about this, but there was supposed to be a meaning of how I said things. I guess I still tried to hope we could survive when saying things so ambiguously.
Teams 3 and 4 were so obviously the teams we investigated.

Jd- is suspicious but I think he's not the Spy, Informant is what I'm thinking.

Before the results were posted, I posted the above. There I tried to say ”I´m almost sure they´re Informants, don´t trust them too much!”

Of course me saying they´re Informants is not much since they appear as civilians if investigated but I wanted to make people question Jd- more because he was definitely steering from the votes all the way from day 1.

Day 4

(Since it was then) I got to know Team 4 was the Informant team (and the Spy team later) through Kain pretty much after the results came in and we were arrested. I got it right (The Informants). Then I hoped people would go through my posts and see I heavily suspected them of that.

But my second important post was completely ignored. As I said, there was no way I could be 100% sure of their Informantship but no one even brought up my suspicions later. Not trusting Jd- would´ve saved you a lots of trouble, civilians, as you could´ve arrested Team 10 first and then Team 7, the teams that obviously were the most suspicious because of the day 1 tie.

But the civilians went with Jd-... again.

Togop and googleearth did get my message about who we investigated though, that was good. I didn´t want people to vote for them because they weren´t the Spies.

@theDetectives:
So the question remain: Why Breva?

So did the Detetives knew breva & kamite were the Spies?

I´ll answer to this now.

Why Kamite and Breva?

I hadn't any reason. If you have someone else in mind who to vote, feel free to tell.

We did not know who the Spies were. We had no clue whatsoever. That was my last attempt to save us from arrest. Three teams had announced they vote for us so I thought we could still have a chance if I could get two teams to vote someone with us so I was ready to vote anyone at all if someone would agree. I didn´t ask Kain about that, it was just me.

as for Jellitto voting Team 7, i have no idea if i should trust her word or Jd-'s

I actually agree with several of your points, but want to point out that Jellitto obviously was voting for Team 7 because there was already an existing vote for them (Miaka/Kleene's).

Your theory is good indeed but this time it´s not how it went. Why? Because I completely forgot that they had an existing vote already. Stupid me.

My actions were a bit reckless towards the end of the day 3, but it was because I, the Detective, was getting arrested D:

If Team 3 had said they vote for us, I wouldn´t have even tried to do anything anymore.

At day 4, at least I, had some hope in civilians, mainly because shinichi´sapprentice got it right and I hoped people would agree of it at day 5.

Day 5

I don´t think we had any hope for civilian victory when they said they´ll vote for Team 10.

Phase ended earlier than expected but it didn´t concern me so I don´t say anything about it. We´ll never know what could´ve happened in the remaining time but I want to leave it at that and don´t think about it further.

Finally:

What we thought at the end of Day 3:

The Detective Team: us, KainTheVampire & Jellitto
The Spy Team: no clue
The Informant Team: Jd- & Kaito Lady
Civilians:
shinichi´sapprentice & googleearth
Conan-chandesune & Togop
Raifuujin & Fujiwara (dead)

[KainTheVampire]

Great report, partner

[Jellitto]

Great report, partner

Thank you!

[shinichi'sapprentice]

We both were suspicious of Jd- in general, especially when he stopped the nominations¹. The arranged tie wasn´t the best for us since it didn´t give us any info of others´ lists².

¹so, it's not just Togop that initially had suspicions of that stopped nominations.
²i thought so! that's why my team was so against it! then Fujiwara died, so i wasn't really able to ask much. he kept talking about probabilities back then! >.<. then Stopwatch also died! so the one who actually is the only one who answered my question of what info or help could that give to the detectives, was Togop, who didn't give me a satisfactory answer, either!

In hindsight, I don´t know why I didn´t step up and say that´s not very good for the Detectives or question it aloud. Maybe I was too nervous that the Spies may pick it up and kill us straight away, maybe I just thought to go with it this time without saying a word. I don´t know. I don´t remember the thoughts I had then.

That led to that neither of us posted anything. I knew that Kain is a quiet player as someone who spectated round 1 and I´m not much better. I had been nominated and voted on round 2 for the same reason so I should´ve known it; but I assume I completely forgot that the exact moment I got to know I was in the Detective team and became very nervous.

But that led to our untimely demise.

i think i left a message for you guys right after you were arrested. *looks up*

here:

message to this round's detectives, if you know that staying quiet will make someone suspicious, then you shouldn't have stayed quiet at all. i'm really not sure of Jellitto's gamestyle. not sure if she's the active type or the quiet type. but based on her Espionage gameplay history, she's one that posts if she has something to tell. thus,

(quoted from round 2)
i am also against voting for non-active players. proof of this is round 1. it is just wrong and suspicious to do something that is not your style. however, in the long run, you will have to post anyway. what's the point of joining if you're just gonna lurk anyway. it's not helpful for other civilians because instead of being watchful for suspicious players, we still have to keep in mind players that are opting to be silent. also, what are you going to do if in the future you're assigned as the detective? you can't just keep quiet forever. if you become detective, and is known for being "not-so-active", how are you gonna share your deductions to us? the spy will just go straight for the kill.

the green one . . this should be a lesson to all to stay active in future plays. not only you help the detective take cover, it also gives you a history of giving good deductions and thus, earn you gain trust in the future.

if you could have just spoken up, i'd be willing to die for you!! my thoughts of being detectives back then, were Togop or Stopwatch. but i wasn't so sure, but if it's them, i'd protect them. i can't blame you for feeling nervous of being assigned as this round's detectives. i think i'd feel the same, if it was my first time. if you only opted to speak up. . . Look back on Round 2's detective Fujiwara. he was so active back then, i have thought he was the detective and was willing to die for him. but then at the end of the game, Round 2 Spy Raiden said i didn't do a very good job on that. i've engraved that on myself and acted on a different way this round. and i think i had a fruitful result since Togop thought we're the detectives. however, firstly,

1. TO ALL YOU PEOPLE! you wouldn't trust me if i wasn't teamed up with googleearth, did you?

2. i guess, if the detectives this round spoke too much since earlier on, they'll still be targeted since they had the clever Jd- as informant! or i don't know. Fujiwara's team and Stopwatch's team was killed consecutively, and the only active players remaining back then, was me, Togop, and dumytru. with dumytru posting less and lesser helpful strategies. with so many active players, by opting to speak up, you could count on us as cover for your deductions.

Day 3

At day 3 Jd- suggested a voting alliance and nominated us again. Great.

At first I hoped people would not go with Jd-´s suggestion but when three of them agreed... well, I and Kain thought that our game was there.

i was saving this for my own post later, but, here goes...

thanks to everyone who posted their lists earlier, i got this:
Team 9: KainTheVampire and Jellitto appeared on only 3 lists!!

and you know what's interesting? it only appeared on the teams that Jd- asked to form an alliance with!

Team 9 appeared 5th in Togop's list.
... appeared 5th in dumytru's list.
...and last but not the least, 2nd in MY TEAM'S LIST!!!!!!!!

so that should be the reason if there are anybody out there that still wonders why that three teams voted for you guys!! now, why did really Team 3 not voiced out who we were going to vote? look up googleearth's answer! if dissatisfied, let me know!

I left two important posts: ←*shinichi'sapprentice only quoted one out of the two said posts*

I have to say though that I trust the most the same people as you Jd-, and for the same reasons. I don´t trust anyone completely, but they´re at the moment the least suspicious. I trust Team 3 the most because of their ”suspiciousness” as it could be said. I also have the feeling that Jd- and KL aren´t the Spy team either. I´m not sure if they are Informants though as I´m not sure of anyone.

It sure seems that we´re doomed though if we don´t get other people to vote on someone else as much we´re going to have votes...

this was the very best information that you have shared to us!!!! if not for this, i think it's the same for Togop's team as well?, we would have considered Jd- as the spy!!!!!!!! this was definitive info that it is safe to label Jd- as the informant!!!!!! back that up with Jd-'s sophistry, as Togop says.

Of course me saying they´re Informants is not much since they appear as civilians if investigated but I wanted to make people question Jd- more because he was definitely steering from the votes all the way from day 1.

Jd- has been steering votes since Round 1!!!!!! i had to go back and browse posts in Round 1 and 2 to double check how differently he's doing it in this round!! and sure enough! it's different!

Day 4

(Since it was then) I got to know Team 4 was the Informant team (and the Spy team later) through Kain pretty much after the results came in and we were arrested. I got it right. Then I hoped people would go through my posts and see I heavily suspected them of that.

i definitely looked on every nook and cranny of all your team's posts!! i was hoping you were sure of Team 7 being spies, but because of all the uncertainties, Jd-'s defense on that was plausible. add to that the gamemaster's reply that it was indeed a mistake on your part.

But my second important post was completely ignored. As I said, there was no way I could be 100% sure of their Informantship but no one even brought up my suspicions later. Not trusting Jd- would´ve saved you a lots of trouble, civilians, as you could´ve arrested Team 10 first and then Team 7, the teams that obviously were the most suspicious because of the day 1 tie.

i'd just like to say that at least my team, do not trust Jd- at all!!!!!!! we were voting based on our list!!!!! i guess it's the same for the other teams? Togop?? dumytru??

If Team 3 had said they vote for us, I wouldn´t have even tried to do anything anymore.

wait, what? so if we announced who we're going to vote, you'd just give up?? well, good thing i didn't say anything at all!! or else, we wouldn't have received evidence that Jd- is informant.

At day 4, at least I, had some hope in civilians, mainly because shinichi´sapprentice got it right and I hoped people would agree of it at day 5.

T.T

Day 5

I don´t think we had any hope for civilian victory when they said they´ll vote for Team 10.

Phase ended earlier than expected but it didn´t concern me so I don´t say anything about it. We´ll never know what could´ve happened in the remaining time but I want to leave it at that and don´t think about it further.

←discussing it with Togop right now.

*quote tags seem to be broken. can't find what i did wrong, so i highlighted my replies in blue to differ it to Jellitto's own posts.*

*by the way, i'm still working on my own post!*

[Jd-]

@Jellitto: Excellent post! I actually wouldn't worry about you not making it clear who your investigations were; at least, I think you did a great job of it. As was shown in that Informants' Diary, I spotted it but was very weary of actually mentioning it for the reasons I stated. I'd be curious to know how many civilians did pick up on it, as I think it was one of the chief pieces of evidences for people to later believe me as an Informant.

[Jellitto]

We both were suspicious of Jd- in general, especially when he stopped the nominations¹. The arranged tie wasn´t the best for us since it didn´t give us any info of others´ lists².

¹so, it's not just Togop that initially had suspicions of that stopped nominations.

²i thought so! that's why my team was so against it! then Fujiwara died, so i wasn't really able to ask much. he kept talking about probabilities back then! >.<. then Stopwatch also died! so the one who actually is the only one who answered my question of what info or help could that give to the detectives, was Togop, who didn't give me a satisfactory answer, either!

That was the first odd thing he did, yes. The nomination process would have helped us lot more.

In hindsight, I don´t know why I didn´t step up and say that´s not very good for the Detectives or question it aloud. Maybe I was too nervous that the Spies may pick it up and kill us straight away, maybe I just thought to go with it this time without saying a word. I don´t know. I don´t remember the thoughts I had then.

That led to that neither of us posted anything. I knew that Kain is a quiet player as someone who spectated round 1 and I´m not much better. I had been nominated and voted on round 2 for the same reason so I should´ve known it; but I assume I completely forgot that the exact moment I got to know I was in the Detective team and became very nervous.

But that led to our untimely demise.

i think i left a message for you guys right after you were arrested. *looks up*

here:

message to this round's detectives, if you know that staying quiet will make someone suspicious, then you shouldn't have stayed quiet at all. i'm really not sure of Jellitto's gamestyle. not sure if she's the active type or the quiet type. but based on her Espionage gameplay history, she's one that posts if she has something to tell. thus,

(quoted from round 2)
i am also against voting for non-active players. proof of this is round 1. it is just wrong and suspicious to do something that is not your style. however, in the long run, you will have to post anyway. what's the point of joining if you're just gonna lurk anyway. it's not helpful for other civilians because instead of being watchful for suspicious players, we still have to keep in mind players that are opting to be silent. also, what are you going to do if in the future you're assigned as the detective? you can't just keep quiet forever. if you become detective, and is known for being "not-so-active", how are you gonna share your deductions to us? the spy will just go straight for the kill.

the green one . . this should be a lesson to all to stay active in future plays. not only you help the detective take cover, it also gives you a history of giving good deductions and thus, earn you gain trust in the future.

if you could have just spoken up, i'd be willing to die for you!! my thoughts of being detectives back then, were Togop or Stopwatch. but i wasn't so sure, but if it's them, i'd protect them. i can't blame you for feeling nervous of being assigned as this round's detectives. i think i'd feel the same, if it was my first time. if you only opted to speak up. . . Look back on Round 2's detective Fujiwara. he was so active back then, i have thought he was the detective and was willing to die for him. but then at the end of the game, Round 2 Spy Raiden said i didn't do a very good job on that. i've engraved that on myself and acted on a different way this round. and i think i had a fruitful result since Togop thought we're the detectives. however, firstly,

1. TO ALL YOU PEOPLE! you wouldn't trust me if i wasn't teamed up with googleearth, did you?

2. i guess, if the detectives this round spoke too much since earlier on, they'll still be targeted since they had the clever Jd- as informant! or i don't know. Fujiwara's team and Stopwatch's team was killed consecutively, and the only active players remaining back then, was me, Togop, and dumytru. with dumytru posting less and lesser helpful strategies. with so many active players, by opting to speak up, you could count on us as cover for your deductions.

I read your post back then...

I´ll definitely remember that in future rounds.

Day 3

At day 3 Jd- suggested a voting alliance and nominated us again. Great.

At first I hoped people would not go with Jd-´s suggestion but when three of them agreed... well, I and Kain thought that our game was there.

i was saving this for my own post later, but, here goes...

thanks to everyone who posted their lists earlier, i got this:
Team 9: KainTheVampire and Jellitto appeared on only 3 lists!!

and you know what's interesting? it only appeared on the teams that Jd- asked to form an alliance with!

Team 9 appeared 5th in Togop's list.
... appeared 5th in dumytru's list.
...and last but not the least, 2nd in MY TEAM'S LIST!!!!!!!!

so that should be the reason if there are anybody out there that still wonders why that three teams voted for you guys!! now, why did really Team 3 not voiced out who we were going to vote? look up googleearth's answer! if dissatisfied, let me know!

Interesting info...

I was satisfied with googleearth´s answer back then, I understood it.

I left two important posts: ←*shinichi'sapprentice only quoted one out of the two said posts*

I have to say though that I trust the most the same people as you Jd-, and for the same reasons. I don´t trust anyone completely, but they´re at the moment the least suspicious. I trust Team 3 the most because of their ”suspiciousness” as it could be said. I also have the feeling that Jd- and KL aren´t the Spy team either. I´m not sure if they are Informants though as I´m not sure of anyone.

It sure seems that we´re doomed though if we don´t get other people to vote on someone else as much we´re going to have votes...

this was the very best information that you have shared to us!!!! if not for this, i think it's the same for Togop's team as well?, we would have considered Jd- as the spy!!!!!!!! this was definitive info that it is safe to label Jd- as the informant!!!!!! back that up with Jd-'s sophistry, as Togop says.

Enough sophistry, Jd-.

I was actually quite amused of it

Of course me saying they´re Informants is not much since they appear as civilians if investigated but I wanted to make people question Jd- more because he was definitely steering from the votes all the way from day 1.

Jd- has been steering votes since Round 1!!!!!! i had to go back and browse posts in Round 1 and 2 to double check how differently he's doing it in this round!! and sure enough! it's different!

*nods*

Day 4

(Since it was then) I got to know Team 4 was the Informant team (and the Spy team later) through Kain pretty much after the results came in and we were arrested. I got it right. Then I hoped people would go through my posts and see I heavily suspected them of that.

i definitely looked on every nook and cranny of all your team's posts!! i was hoping you were sure of Team 7 being spies, but because of all the uncertainties, Jd-'s defense on that was plausible. add to that the gamemaster's reply that it was indeed a mistake on your part.

I edited my original post a bit. We didn´t know who the Spies were, but we did figure out the Informant team. And not changing the vote was said to be mistake by me at the end of day 3 already.

But is good to know you did like I hoped. Especially in a situation like that when the Detectives knew they were going to be arrested, it´s important to go through their every post.

If Team 3 had said they vote for us, I wouldn´t have even tried to do anything anymore.

wait, what? so if we announced who we're going to vote, you'd just give up?? well, good thing i didn't say anything at all!! or else, we wouldn't have received evidence that Jd- is informant.

I would still had posted my important posts, but not tried for a tie was what I meant. Because it offered some cover to the Spies.

At day 4, at least I, had some hope in civilians, mainly because shinichi´sapprentice got it right and I hoped people would agree of it at day 5.

T.T

I really hoped that but it didn´t happen... You were so right.

*by the way, i'm still working on my own post!*

*And I´m still waiting for it *

@Jellitto: Excellent post! I actually wouldn't worry about you not making it clear who your investigations were; at least, I think you did a great job of it. As was shown in that Informants' Diary, I spotted it but was very weary of actually mentioning it for the reasons I stated. I'd be curious to know how many civilians did pick up on it, as I think it was one of the chief pieces of evidences for people to later believe me as an Informant.

I´m flattered

I thought that you spotted it but I was worried that the Civilians seemed not to, at least not quite many. I too would like to hear if other teams picked it up.

[Jd-]

Enough sophistry, Jd-.

I was actually quite amused of it

Same! At that point, I knew there was little else for me to do. We only had that one option open to us, so I figured I may as well ensure that there was little to no doubt as to who the Informants were.

[shinichi'sapprentice]

Hello. i would like to start this with my feedback to this round's GameMaster. i thought she was fun!

In other words... It's like Day One never happened! (This game gets stranger and stranger the more we play it.)

This time, I can only imagine the Spy team was just inactive and lost track of time. Would be great to hear from Kain/Jellitto, Kamite/Breva, and Robo/Meme. From what I can recall off-hand, Kain/Jellitto haven't posted much (or at all?). Understandably, they may not have had much to say yet, but it is a little suspicious that the inaction comes on a day with no kill from the Spy team. There's no tactical advantage to not killing as the Spy team right now, simply because they already knew there would be no arrest today.

Don't forget team 3

Yuri, should the GM really point out things like that?

* Yuri presses a finger against Togop's lips *
shhhh :V

maintaining peace and order . .

Now now, y'all be nice there...

and, maintaining order . .

Hey, quit the math talk! No maths will be allowed in my round from this point on.
meh... my head is spinning already. (gee, I'm doing a language study for a reason )

and order . .

<- this sign will be placed on this topic from now on.

and order!!

B- but but but.... how do you wanna calculate all the votes then? D:

I don't need to, I just make lists. (plus I do that outside the topic itself )

and fun!!

*hides her amusement*

but, in the end, they voted for Team 7. it could only be an honest mess up, or the detectives thought they'll die anyway so as last clue for us, they voted them again.

Just saying quickly that due to a pm error I never got their change in vote just to clear up that mistake.
Otherwise, keep on messing! ←haha!

* Yuri runs off into the sunset *

Yuri Iwamoto did a great job in GameMaster-ing. she's the very first gamemaster i didn't send questions at all. hehe. although, she was killing me of suspense because i think i killed the refresh key on Day 1 and 2 . . ?for about 30 mins. because of waiting for the results! haha. i have nothing against her GM-ing.

--

on to miyano_shiho's "game-breaking post"

i mentioned i had the same problem in Round 2. the following, are my exact conversation with Round 2 gamemaster back then. . .

but wait, i think i should post what i posted in Round 2 first, and the reactions i got after posting it. be reminded that this is my list in Round 2:
1. Raiden
2. Togop
3. Fujiwara
4. Yuri Iwamoto
5. monsi
6. breva
7. Meme

it was Day 6 back then, when i posted it. and Meme was the only one crossed out of my list(she was arrested). on Day 4, Jd- nominated miyano_shiho.

Quadruple Post!

I'm voting for Miyano_Shiho this phase.

I can't say exactly why it is that I would vote for Miyano. But, I am announcing my vote ahead of time and if someone would like to join me, that is fine too. It's based on speculation from information and activity from within the game, so take that as what you will. It's nothing definite by any stretch of the imagination, but to give us a little direction, I'll put my vote out there to be debated/contested/etc.

ADDENDUM: I'm inclined to say that Fujiwara is probably not the Spy nor the Informant. After thinking about that post and the mention of the amount of people on the list from Togop, it seems likely to me that they are both civilians. Togop more so because he was already cleared from before and has numerous things going in his favor at this point, beginning with the earliest results and discussions.

that's why i said:

blah.blah.blah

---

on Jd- voting miyano_shiho, it just proved that he is 100% not the detective.

---

blah.blah.blah

and the reactions i got were:

@shinichi'sapprentice:
I doubt the spy would go for Jd after you said Jd's 100% not the detective... :x
Although I find your reasoning on why Jd isn't the detective strange... or nonexistant XD

on Jd- voting miyano_shiho, it just proved that he is 100% not the detective.

I don't get your reasoning here at all, but more importantly, if you think that someone is not the detective, why would you go out of your way to point that out to the spy? This is not the first time you've done so either ...

at the end of the game, i posted this:

oh, and about the Jd- voting for miyano_shiho, i mentioned that he wasn't the detective because he and miyano are both not in my list. if Jd- really is the detective and he investigated miyano and received a result that she was the spy, then what's up with my list?! so it's gotta be the opposite. i trusted miyano's reason for inactivity. proof is her backing out of the most recent mafia round. ~.~ i've been shooting Stopwatch questions left and right because i wanted to make sure i don't break any rules. lots of people were saying that Jd- could be the informant so i said it differently by saying he's no detective. and by settling in with the reasoning that he's not the detective, i confronted the spy by offering to kill Jd-. i was trying to catch the spy's attention so he won't go for the detective. but that was proven useless because it became the opposite. Raiden was aiming for Fujiwara already. and Fujiwara was the one that became suspicious of me.

and finally, this is my entire conversation with Round 2 GameMaster Stopwatch:

is it ok to say in my post that I finally have someone in my list that was arrested?

Probably not, sorry :/. Just, despite that person now being out of the game, you're still essentially claiming they're on your list so...

how about saying that someone is not in my list?
for example:
"blah blah blah. because Jd- is not in my list. blah blah blah"

how about saying that someone is not in my list?
for example:
"blah blah blah. because Jd- is not in my list. blah blah blah"

Sorry, but also no. Process of elimination could essentially mean you could say everyone not on your list and people could figure it out :/.

glad you replied! i almost want to include it in my post already that i am still typing now.

question about that answer o/...
but Jd- is really not in my list. it's not my intention to begin with to say in my post that someone is not in my list but they actually are. the people that i want to say that are not in my list are Jd- and miyano_shiho. which really are NOT in my list. i ask this because it will be solid proof for my soon to be posted post. if you are still online by the time i finish typing my post. i'd like to show it to you before i finally post it so you can review it if you think i violated some rules. thank you...

glad you replied! i almost want to include it in my post already that i am still typing now.

question about that answer o/...
but Jd- is really not in my list. it's not my intention to begin with to say in my post that someone is not in my list but they actually are. the people that i want to say that are not in my list are Jd- and miyano_shiho. which really are NOT in my list. i ask this because it will be solid proof for my soon to be posted post. if you are still online by the time i finish typing my post. i'd like to show it to you before i finally post it so you can review it if you think i violated some rules. thank you...

The thing is if you're claiming someone isn't in the list then it narrows down who *is* on your list. Honestly I'd prefer it if anyone could claim just so we could get fake claims as well, but that would be a bit unfair on the Spy because all the Civilians would have to do would be to real claim and do a tally to uncover the Spy/Detective. So, yeah, that would actually be a bad idea.

hmm... but if you don't mind, i'll still show my post to you before i post it. and if you are offline already by that time, i'll do the necessary edits and not include it in my post.

and oh. sorry. i just read your post in the main espionage round 2 topic.
edited my subject message now! -.-

so, what's the point of all this flashback??! well, i think miyano_shiho and i had the same experience of having a hard time on how we can share information that we thought might be able to help everyone.

FIRSTLY, I'D LIKE YOU TO ALL KNOW, THAT I THINK I SHOULD BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR miyano_shiho's said "game-breaking" post.

i have repeated five times in the topic, five times!! that teams that don't have Team 9 on their list means the spy team is in their list!!!

now, let's lay down all the facts here. thanks again to everyone sharing their lists earlier, i got this:

out of the 8 teams, only three teams have the detectives on their lists. meaning, 5 teams have the spies on their lists!!!!! namely:
-Team5
-Team2
-Team11
-Team1
-and Team 8!!!

-Team2 and
-Team1 have long been dead before the detectives were arrested.

now, let's go back to miyano_shiho's REAL first post:

I am posting now since we've got some information that the remaining civilian teams may need. I haven't read everything in the thread thoroughly so I couldn't make deductions based on behavior, but here's the best I could give. If you don't want us civilians to lose, you better take note of these.


Teams being suspected in the thread that are certainly NOT THE SPIES:
Team 8: Jecka and miyano_shiho (just so you remember not to vote us)
Team 5: RoboG55 and Meme
Team 3: shinichi'sapprentice and googleearth
Team 11: Kleene Onigiri and Miaka

MOST PROBABLY SPIES:
Team 7: Kamite and Breva (the team we're voting for this phase)


Mathematically speaking, I can say that there is at least 25% chance that team 7 are the spies. Based on Jd-'s and dumytru's lists of suspects, by elimination, it is very highly likely they are indeed the spies. If they aren't, my next choice would be Team 6: Conan-chandesune and Togop.

If anyone has reasons not to vote team 7, please tell us immediately. I apologize for not having time to post earlier.

Edit: Also, if you think I'm violating any rule by posting this, please tell as well (though I'm gonna be sleeping soon and won't have time to go on at least 12 hours from now)

now, compare that to this:

blah.blah.blah

---

on Jd- voting miyano_shiho, it just proved that he is 100% not the detective.

---

blah.blah.blah

clearly, at least what i think, both me and miyano were trying so hard to share useful information here, hoping it was vague enough to appear not to be violating any rules.

this very post, yes. does it really appear that game-violating??! she did not reveal anything in her list!!! her actual list was:
1. Team 6
2. Team 1
3. Team 4
4. Tean 7
5. Team 10

the teams she said that are certainly not spies are:
-Team 8
-Team 5
-Team 3
-Team 11

she did not even say the word "list" in this very first post. the reason that led her to saying the word "list" is because of this:

finally, a person who nominated another team.

~.~

but my vote still won't be changed. not strong enough statement you got there. although, this will be the fifth time i say it,
TO ALL CIVILIANS THAT DO NOT HAVE Team 9: KainTheVampire and Jellitto ON THEIR LISTS, ONE THING IS FOR SURE, THE SPY IS IN YOUR LISTS!!!!!!!
say something more to back it up. i will not point out what i want to hear. if you're the spy, all the more reason not to point it out. take the time to think about it.

--Edit: Fujiwara!! i know. . i know. that's why it's been annoying. but the civilians gotta be creative on how they reveal information. i want to give example from what i asked round 2's gamemaster Stopwatch, but i'll have to wait when the game ends.

if only i immediately directed to Meme the second paragraph of this post, was for her, i shouldn't have confused miyano to replying and saying anything more?

my objective in repeatedly telling people this: TO ALL CIVILIANS THAT DO NOT HAVE Team 9: KainTheVampire and Jellitto ON THEIR LISTS, ONE THING IS FOR SURE, THE SPY IS IN YOUR LISTS!!!!!!! was to have the remaining civilians take the time to bother staring at their list and use their little gray cells to deduct who's spy in their list! maybe if miyano has worded her post properly, we wouldn't have this dilemma.

and just to let you know people. my posts were not relying on miyano's post. i had my own evidences and if only i was able to post that earlier and faster, maybe we would have had a shot at this. i also asked of her to go online on Day 5. in the end, i just went with what her partner said. i was really hoping for her to be online and share her thoughts comparing mine and Togop's posts since we have two different suspected spies. and wait, if she'll stay with her stand about Team 7.

--

the 4 civilians i trust that were civilians at the last two phase
-Team 3, of course
-Team 8, because of her first post!
-Team 6
-Team 11

Team 6 and 11, they have also given time to post their deductions!!!

--

i'll share first what has happened the entire round. i'm gonna copy Jd- and Jellitto's format!

Prep Phase

didn't talk much. did i? Civilian yet again! I like that the number of my team is 3!! was waiting for partner to suggest a team name but who cares?! Team 3 is awesome! i actually want to have copyrights to own Team # 3 in future rounds! haha!

don't really care about prep phase. as i was so eager to start Day 1 already, and point suspicious posts that may be signal to the spies. but thanks to Fujiwara and his probabilities, everybody got serious! i commend his efforts to lay down a new strategy for catching the spies. but hah! i was right! the spies ended up using that against you guys. now, you wouldn't use that plan ever again, will ya?

also, prep phase. get this time to familiarize with your partner's timezone! it's been hard on our team since we weren't able to discuss things in detail. i'm at work when he's available. he was busy when i was free.

Day 1

tie voting was happening. i suggested voting Team 6. i am very thankful that partner stopped me and said that he'll post in the topic that we'll vote for ourselves. at this time, i realized that self voting can be used as strategy as well! i was so against this new rule in the previous round, but then saw it's usefulness. i still didn't want to self vote, but i trusted my partner and at least got some info maybe?

Day 2

i suggested voting Team 9. what else happened that day? oh, Togop's suspicions on Jd- stopping the nominations. didn't really understand it that day.

Day 3

two self voters.

why?!

both teams are not in our list. so if it's one of the two that are the spies, then the detectives were in our list! partner said it might be Team 1, but said he'll wait what happens the rest of the phase.

messaged me again and said:

I think we should go with this proposed alliance, though. Doesn't really matter if we agree with whoever's nominated. I'd say let's go with it regardless. Let's just not try to be the team that leads the alliance, so I'd rather have none of us proposing nominations there.

Do you understand what I mean?

he sent that while i was still asleep i think. i've read it maybe 3 - 4 hours later. only less than an hour left before day 3 ends/day 4 begins. i sent the vote: Team 9, he still hasn't replied.

Day 4

detectives arrested! the very first team crossed out of our list! everybody is still a suspect! but this is when i started having team 5 and 7 the primary suspects. partner suggests team 5. voted.

Day 5

last phase. i mostly said in my last two long posts in day 4 and 5 all i wanted to say. add to that my replies to Jellitto's report. i just want to move on to the next part. . .

--

The 3-hour-short Round 3 Day 5.

when i saw the GameMaster's post saying day will end early, i thought everybody had already sent in their votes. but then Togop was still saying something!!!! breva said something, too. but GameMaster told me this:

ahH??!!!!! you said that Kamite was busy???!!!!! ahhhHHH!!!! possible explanation for the day 1 no kill people!!

are you for real?

just what was happening??! i was already at work, when a whole new page of posts were already posted!!! i was scanning the game topic on such a small device looking for who the spies were!!! and then i read something about Jd- asking the game to end early?!! why?!!!!! what?! him having quickly posted all those replies right after the game ended made me feel like, what?! it was already planned to end the game early?!! checking back, i was able to post my very last long post in Day 5, exactly less than 12 hours to go before the game ends! and now, checking back again, it was only dumytru that was online back then!! *scrolling* there's a post from my partner still pleading people to talk some more and share their own deductions!!

and, oh! i just realized, Togop actually wasn't able to read my last long post then!! there was so many last minute post, i was going crazy replying to everything!

ok, this is so long now, it's not interesting at all anymore.

sorry to disappoint you that the last part of this post was a mess. i have been online, all night long! no sleep at all.

i will post my post-game conversation with Togop right after this if i still can.

if there is something to blame here, it was the time.

this, has been an exhausting round.

oh, oh. my mistakes by the way:
-when the detectives died, i was so frustrated! i have believed till the end that it was Team 7 that are spies. but the detective's arrest was one of the reasons that i can't think straight. yes, i've been posting like crazy that we should vote Team 7. i wanted to post something so long with so many details that Jd- can't say anything more, but it was already late at night when i finished my last post . it was disappointing that it was too late when Togop got the chance to read my post. i thought the reason for the early end was that everybody voted already. the game has ended early. my partner didn't actually give me reasons on why we should vote Cider's team. my partner was busy as well. he was the one to send the vote, i told him i'll change it depends on what the rest says. it was only dumytru who i was talking to at that time. by the time breva and Togop posted, it was already too late. even Jecka had had a hard time posting last minute rushed post. i'm not even sure myself what deserve who. believe it or not, in my conversation with Togop, both agreed that our reasonings are not tainted by the said "game-breaking" post. i'm sleepy

[Kleene Onigiri]

You don't have to take any blame, shinichi's apprentice :V There is no one to blame.
There was the rule that you may not tell your list, but everyone considers it differently, what "telling the list" means.
If that didn't happen this round it would probably happen in the next rounds. So changing the rule to make sure people can't tell stuff they aren't supposed to is better

I agree that Yuri's post were funny XD

But don't over-exhaust yourself D: With that big post you really should take a break now

[Iwamoto Yuri]

Now now, I'm about as funny as a dry sock

[Kaito Lady]

*comes in and sees the longest posts she has ever seen in her life*

I understand that miyano wrote something that she shouldn't have written, but what was it?
and why are there so many upset people?

btw, nice Diary Jd-

[shinichi'sapprentice]

so many upset people. . ? damn! that just sparked myself from wanting to post more. but i have no time right now! i remembered i said i want to tell something to Kleene. but then there was that pm by Jd-. ahH!! Later. . .

[Fujiwara]

don't really care about prep phase. as i was so eager to start Day 1 already, and point suspicious posts that may be signal to the spies. but thanks to Fujiwara and his probabilities, everybody got serious! i commend his efforts to lay down a new strategy for catching the spies. but hah! i was right! the spies ended up using that against you guys. now, you wouldn't use that plan ever again, will ya?

Riiiiiiiight. I realize that most people didn’t think much of the plan, including you and your partner, so I’m pretty sure I won’t suggest it again, no. Personally, however, I did and still do think that it was a good thing, for various reasons:

1. First and foremost, there was a flood of activity both during Prep Phase and on Day 1 thanks to my proposition. Compared to round two, where nothing happened during Prep Phase and very little discussion took place on Day 1, this round lots of people chipped in, discussing the pros and cons of the idea and related issues. This also led to

2. The informant team had to tip their hand. You say that the spies used the strategy against me, but in order to do so, Jd had to step forward and stop the nomination process early. Consequently, at least 3 teams became suspicious of Jd:
1) My own team
2) Togop’s team:

For example, as I suggested it, the strategy involved a nomination process which was supposed to give extra information to the detective. Jd- saw it fit to stop that nomination process. While he pointed out a valid reason, he could have waited to see some more nominations before stopping them, but he didn't. I'd like to hear why

3) The Detective team

We both were suspicious of Jd- in general, especially when he stopped the nominations.

3. Both me and Togop also gained various other insights from people’s reaction to the proposition. As Togop said:

At least for me, the way different people reacted to this strategy was a lot more informative than random voting would have been.

One thing that killed a lot of these advantages was the fact that I was killed the next day and couldn’t make much use of that information, whereas Jd was still alive and kicking to take any advantage he could get.

In any case, arranging a tie was never simply about arranging a tie. It was about getting a discussion going, judging people's reactions, organizing a group effort and gaining a lot of information in the process, instead of getting nothing but the results of a random vote.

[Togop]

I disagree with the claim that the tie effort was used against civillians. Most of the evidence we had against the spy even at the end game came from day 1. Whether I'd use it again - it depends. Doing it a second time wouldn't provide as much information as the first time did - in general, a strategy becomes less and less effective every time you repeat it.