ESPIONAGE: Round Three (Spies & Informants Win)

[miakakiri]

I am also rather disappointed in not getting to vote this last phase. Yuri-san messaged me on IRC this morning apologizing that the round ended in a mess. I didn't actually understand what she was talking about at all (not having seen Miyano-san's illegal posts) until I got home this evening. I would've appreciated a heads-up to hand in a vote, especially as I did tell her flat-out that I was about to leave the house.
It probably doesn't help that I wasn't ever really sure what time phasechange was, though this is probably my fault. If the final phase ended at 2pm EST and this was three hours early, then the normal end time was 5pm EST, which feels like a really weird time to be ending a phase of a game like this. What about those of us in the US who work? 5 EST is 4 CST, 3 MST, and 2 PST. I'm not entirely sure where everyone in the game lives, but I know there were at least 2 players on EST. 5pm is roughly the end of the workday for a 'normal' schedule (thus the terminology '9-to-5') and that being the end of the phase makes it difficult for anyone who works that shift to join in, unless they have the ability to play from work. Yes, there is the option to vote 'early', but then you lose out on other input/information that may come up later in the day. Just a point to consider.

I think I will wait to decide on joining the next round until I have a better handle on the exact rules. I've had a busy couple weeks, which is why I didn't get to reading all the rules and was running based off a conversation with Kleene-san during prep phase.
Busy: last week Archi and I were away from home Wednesday to Friday, went to visit friends in another city on Saturday (this is a weekly event and the main reason I missed the end of Day Five). Sunday I don't remember what happened. Running around trying to find beads, I think, and then a lot of time spent working on the shield. Monday of this week I had a morning meeting, got stuck because Archi forgot his phone on his desk and had left it on vibrate, and spent much of the afternoon/evening finishing the perler-bead shield I was making for Archi. Tuesday I wasn't feeling well at all. Wednesday I went to get my stitches out and then ran errands downtown, followed by an evening of Symphonia. Thursday I already explained--spent the whole day with my brothers at the Museum of Science in Boston. Friday I was a bit more active, though the phase ending surprised me (as mentioned earlier, I wasn't clear on the timing). Today, Archi and I had errands to run and friends to visit.

[dumytru]

I am also rather disappointed in not getting to vote this last phase. Yuri-san messaged me on IRC this morning apologizing that the round ended in a mess. I didn't actually understand what she was talking about at all (not having seen Miyano-san's illegal posts) until I got home this evening. I would've appreciated a heads-up to hand in a vote, especially as I did tell her flat-out that I was about to leave the house.
It probably doesn't help that I wasn't ever really sure what time phasechange was, though this is probably my fault. If the final phase ended at 2pm EST and this was three hours early, then the normal end time was 5pm EST, which feels like a really weird time to be ending a phase of a game like this. What about those of us in the US who work? 5 EST is 4 CST, 3 MST, and 2 PST. I'm not entirely sure where everyone in the game lives, but I know there were at least 2 players on EST. 5pm is roughly the end of the workday for a 'normal' schedule (thus the terminology '9-to-5') and that being the end of the phase makes it difficult for anyone who works that shift to join in, unless they have the ability to play from work. Yes, there is the option to vote 'early', but then you lose out on other input/information that may come up later in the day. Just a point to consider.

I have to disagree with you. That's just being selfish, imo. For my teammate (Cider) the Phase ended at 4:00 AM.
For me at 11:00 PM (and I usualy go to sleep at 10:00 PM).

This is an obvious issue with such a game.
We can't just set the Phase End convenient for certain time zones.

[shinichi'sapprentice]

wait. i'd like to hear the spy's side of the story. Jd-'s "Informant's Diary" is detailed and all. but, was the orders Jd- posted, the exact wordings from Team 7? --Edit: to the spies: who's sending the orders? kamite? or, breva?

*goes back to reading*

--ahH?!! dumytru posted before me. agreed. the phase change should be determined based on the round's gamemaster's availability.

*goes back to reading*

--Edit 2: but i think, miakakiri was sharing her concern about the early phase end?
↑*this will be tackled in my post, too.*

*goes back to reading*

[shinichi'sapprentice]

Jd-! how do i know when you're online? i don't want to pm as i want everybody to see your replies as well.

question: WHO DID YOU REALLY THOUGHT WAS THE DETECTIVES??????!!!!!!!!! you only said you thought it was dumytru because it's part of a plan, right?? so, who??

--oh, wait. i think dumytru already asked that . . *checks*

@Jd-
I said it again, but you did an awesome job as the Informant.
I have a question. I thought about it in Day 4, but--- you said you thought we were the Detectives.
You said that only because I said I thought you were the Detectives, right?

You were a great civilian, on that same token, as I wrote in the preface earlier! Truly will have to be looked back on as a fundamental example of what a civilian player is. "So innocent that he looks guilty!" was what I thought back then. You did a great job, and I'm really glad (from a drama standpoint) you made it so interesting with interrupting that tie-vote on Day 1. As you've probably figured by now, my idea was really because I expected one of those two formidable teams to get arrested due to it being so hard to arrange a tie like that. But, you managed it and came and saved them at the end. It was really impressive work.

And, as for the Day 4 question: You're exactly right. I actually saw the posts requesting me specifically say who I thought the Detective was, and was like, "I really hope dumytru comes around soon, because I need to be sure my answer is somehow equatable to his." When you said us, I realized I could say the same about you guys and thus would build you up as even more closely allied with us. When it came time to reveal us as the Informants and stage the "Team 7 or Team 10" debate, I was really hoping they'd go back to those moments and suspect us of having arranged it to make each other look like civilians.

--eh?! you didn't answer him either! so, before you guys wickedly put Team 9 on the line, who was it you thought were the detectives??!

[Jd-]

so, before you guys wickedly put Team 9 on the line, who was it you thought were the detectives??!

We didn't really have too many solid ideas on exactly who the Detectives were. My strategy was simply ingratiate ourselves into the civilian effort and wait for them to be arrested or killed. I had some ideas on who the Detectives weren't (you, Fujiwara, Togop), but we were really more into playing the long game of gradually getting rid of people. Eventually, I figured, the Detectives would either be killed or would be accidentally arrested either by our initiative or happenstance with the votes.

We may have more directly targeted the Detectives if the situation had been different. However, due to being required to weave in and out of Fujiwara/Togop's voting nominations, the lack of a kill on Day 1, and the other unexpected circumstances, my job with KL was chiefly "Protect Kamite/breva from being risked in any votes".

EDIT: To clarify in case there's any confusion, anytime we publicly mentioned knowing who the Detectives were was purely to fit into the Civilian population. We just modified and adapted our "suspicions" as was necessary to make it seem like we weer Civilians playing a Civilian game.

[shinichi'sapprentice]

hmm . . so, i really need to hear the spies' side of the story. the lack of a kill on Day 1. . . . i really need an explanation to that. i wonder who were sending the orders. Kamite or Breva . .

*sigh*

*currently on page 19 -.-*

[Jd-]

I'd like to hear their full side of the story too. They did really well. Even I don't know why they decided on a no-kill for Day 1, though (but I do know it was intentional).

[miakakiri]

I am also rather disappointed in not getting to vote this last phase. Yuri-san messaged me on IRC this morning apologizing that the round ended in a mess. I didn't actually understand what she was talking about at all (not having seen Miyano-san's illegal posts) until I got home this evening. I would've appreciated a heads-up to hand in a vote, especially as I did tell her flat-out that I was about to leave the house.
It probably doesn't help that I wasn't ever really sure what time phasechange was, though this is probably my fault. If the final phase ended at 2pm EST and this was three hours early, then the normal end time was 5pm EST, which feels like a really weird time to be ending a phase of a game like this. What about those of us in the US who work? 5 EST is 4 CST, 3 MST, and 2 PST. I'm not entirely sure where everyone in the game lives, but I know there were at least 2 players on EST. 5pm is roughly the end of the workday for a 'normal' schedule (thus the terminology '9-to-5') and that being the end of the phase makes it difficult for anyone who works that shift to join in, unless they have the ability to play from work. Yes, there is the option to vote 'early', but then you lose out on other input/information that may come up later in the day. Just a point to consider.

I have to disagree with you. That's just being selfish, imo. For my teammate (Cider) the Phase ended at 4:00 AM.
For me at 11:00 PM (and I usualy go to sleep at 10:00 PM).

This is an obvious issue with such a game.
We can't just set the Phase End convenient for certain time zones.

As I said, simply a point to consider. Might make some level of sense to ask everyone involved in the game what times would work for them for phase-change. Then you go with what time works for the largest number of people. Yes, that will still make things inconvenient for someone. Maybe this was done and I'm being stupid. I apologize if that is the case, I just find the timing a little confusing. Probably my own fault for being so totally out of it.

[shinichi'sapprentice]

Kamite is online!! tell me about your wicked spy diary!! haha! you have a lot of explaining to do!! especially the Day 1 no kill!!

[shinichi'sapprentice]

what?! Kamite has disappeared! well, i guess i'll have this chance to continue rereading. Togop!! check your inbox!!!!!

[Stopwatch]

I am also rather disappointed in not getting to vote this last phase. Yuri-san messaged me on IRC this morning apologizing that the round ended in a mess. I didn't actually understand what she was talking about at all (not having seen Miyano-san's illegal posts) until I got home this evening. I would've appreciated a heads-up to hand in a vote, especially as I did tell her flat-out that I was about to leave the house.
It probably doesn't help that I wasn't ever really sure what time phasechange was, though this is probably my fault. If the final phase ended at 2pm EST and this was three hours early, then the normal end time was 5pm EST, which feels like a really weird time to be ending a phase of a game like this. What about those of us in the US who work? 5 EST is 4 CST, 3 MST, and 2 PST. I'm not entirely sure where everyone in the game lives, but I know there were at least 2 players on EST. 5pm is roughly the end of the workday for a 'normal' schedule (thus the terminology '9-to-5') and that being the end of the phase makes it difficult for anyone who works that shift to join in, unless they have the ability to play from work. Yes, there is the option to vote 'early', but then you lose out on other input/information that may come up later in the day. Just a point to consider.

I have to disagree with you. That's just being selfish, imo. For my teammate (Cider) the Phase ended at 4:00 AM.
For me at 11:00 PM (and I usualy go to sleep at 10:00 PM).

This is an obvious issue with such a game.
We can't just set the Phase End convenient for certain time zones.

As I said, simply a point to consider. Might make some level of sense to ask everyone involved in the game what times would work for them for phase-change. Then you go with what time works for the largest number of people. Yes, that will still make things inconvenient for someone. Maybe this was done and I'm being stupid. I apologize if that is the case, I just find the timing a little confusing. Probably my own fault for being so totally out of it.

It's finding a balance really. In the past Mafia games had a majority American I would say, but more recently the non-American/European players have increased. So, you have to find a timezone that fits the most number of people, but without compromising your sleep if you can help it because you may think it's fine to be up until a certain time each night, but generally you have to stick around a bit after phase change (to send out actions in Mafia, and find out if you made any mistakes that you missed for both Mafia and Espionage) and staying up to that time every single day of the week just gradually sort of drains you. A tired GM makes even more mistakes and starts to not enjoy themselves as much. And also you have to fit things around rl commitments.

So, with Yuri, if the phase change had been 18:00 EST then for her it would have meant staying up until at least midnight every day of the week and presumably having to wake up earlier on weekdays which would make her not get as much sleep. Doing it in her morning would mean it would be 3am or some such for the Americans and doing it in your mornings would require her to be available around midday and the Europeans would be unlikely to be unavailable near the time anyway.

Basically, the way you have to choose a phase change is to start with your free time and then narrow things down. If you don't have spare time when it would be best for, say, the Americans then they'll either have to put up with it or you have to find some sort of compromise such as staying up slightly later. If you do stay up later make sure it's something you can handle without starting to mess up because if you're staying up later to improve the game then making mistakes due to lack of sleep is somewhat counterproductive, y'know?

That's how I see it, I guess.

[shinichi'sapprentice]

i don't care about mafia! (just kidding!) i think in mafia, you have two phase change in one real life 24-hour day, right? well, in espionage we only have 1 whole 24 hours! so, in espionage, the phase change should be determined based on the GM's availability and not of the players!

*goes back to posting*

[KainTheVampire]

i don't care about mafia! (just kidding!) i think in mafia, you have two phase change in one real life 24-hour day, right? well, in espionage we only have 1 whole 24 hours! so, in espionage, the phase change should be determined based on the GM's availability and not of the players!

*goes back to posting*

All phases are 24 hours in Mafia as well, but there are Night and Days, since some roles only have action during days and vice versa

[shinichi'sapprentice]

oh. my bad. but yeah, from what i've watched so far in mafia, i think in 1 day, i saw two phase change. maybe i'm using the wrong terminology here. but i'm sure I saw one arrest and one kill in the whole 24 hours. . . ahH!! whatever. i don't know anything!

*goes back to posting*

[Kleene Onigiri]

@phasechange time/Timezone:
Usually, the GM is changing and with that the timezone is usually changing too. So it's getting mixed up how often a american/european/asian timezone happens. Which makes it a bit fairer again because every timezone get's to be played at some point.
And the most important factor is the GM, since he/she has to be online at the phasechange time.

But since we have teams here in Espionage, it's likely that at least one team member will be online at the phasechange time in case some urgent change in votes etc. has to be done :V


@miaka: You should have said that you didn't read the rules ^^" I didn't know :V I would have explained them more then D:
To everyone, ask your team member about the rules when you have questions!