ESPIONAGE: Round Three (Spies & Informants Win)

[dumytru]

I'll just say this again before I go to sleep and disappear for at least the next 12 hours.
Do not vote Teams 5, 3, 8 or 11 if you don't want to waste this phase.

You said it's based on your list, right? It's obvious to me you list should be: Team 5, 3, 8, 11 and 9 (the Detectives Team).

But it's possible that both the Detective and the Spy are on the list. In fact, if that's actually your list, then more the reason to vote for Team #5.

It's one more list they appear to be on.

[Jd-]

You said it's based on your list, right? It's obvious to me you list should be: Team 5, 3, 8, 11 and 9 (the Detectives Team).

But why would you exclude them? it's possible that both the Detective and the Spy are on the list. In fact, if that's actually your list, then more the reason to vote for Team #5.

It's one more list they are on.

As dumytru has said, you've made it way too easy to discern your list (whether it's fake or not). That is in violation of the rules, so from this point forward, you should probably not mention anything related to your list. The rule of thumb is if that if someone can determine without any doubt what is on your list from what you've said, you're saying way too much.

[Togop]

OK. Both teams I challenged responded.
In truth, the subtle reason for my challenge was to try to find the informant. I was hoping that the informants would want me to vote for them so as not to vote for the spies. Thus if one of these two teams are informants, they would stay quiet. If both speak up, then my next most likely informant team would be Jd-/KL (based mostly on intuition).
Miaka's response along the lines "I can't play" doesn't mean much, though, as falling for that trap requires some knowledge of the game. Kleene, on the other hand, logged in shortly after my post and clearly ignored it. This makes Kleene/Miaka a prime informant suspect. If so, Kamite/Breva and Robo/Meme are innocent due to points 12) and 18) from my earlier post. In this case my prime spy suspects would be dumytru/Cider followed by Miyano/Jecka.

Another thing I was concerned about was the fact that no informant had stepped fourth to defend Robo/Meme. But now MIyano did - so if she's the informant, she may have decided it's better to pitch in and defend Robo/Meme than to steer away my vote alone. She implies that netiher Robo/Meme, nor Kain/Jellitto are on her list. At least my interpretation is that Miyano doesn't have Jellitto on her list and the four teams she listed are not on the list either. Anyway, only the informant or spy is allowed to reveal that without breaking the rules.

Unfortunately, this is the worst case scenario where both challenged teams posted, but I can't clear either of them from being the informant .

My last informant suspect is Jd-, covering for dumytru/Cider or Kamite/Breva.

That means if Robo/Meme are civillian, I'd next vote for dumytru/Cider based on the information I have today. Another possibility would be Kamite/Breva, and hopefully I'd be able to make a more informed decision tomorrow.

[Togop]

Oh, yes, I forgot one thing. There is a way to find out who's civillian for sure, or to send a message to civillians only , but I'd rather not use it and after the game motion for rule change to prohibit it.

[dumytru]

I'm 90% sure Miyano/Jecka are Civilians. But I'm not sure if I should say why.

Edit: Togop, you're right, I must've made a mistake. They probably don't have the Detective on their list.

[miyano_shiho]

Deleted.

[shinichi'sapprentice]

wow! i am discussing things with my partner right now. and Togop seemed to have addressed me and my partner's opposing thoughts.

although, i'm not fully agreeing with my partner right now, here is what he had to say, his words, copied and pasted exactly:

(he's on his phone right now, and i understand it's hard copy/paste -ing or quoting on a mobile device, so here goes):

Hypothetically speaking, if Team 5 actually were the Spy, there's be no lists disproving that they are and no one would speak up, but the Informant would likely to pretend to have such a list to protect them. So the number of people that would speak up should be one. And that's exactly what we're witnessing here. Is that a coincidence?

Well, that's what it looks like on the surface. But Jecka did say in a post they're unsure about Team 5 and only later changed it to saying they're Team 5 to be a Spy. I think Jex is more likely to miss the fact that they can infer certain things from their list considering that a particular team turned out to be the Spy, than that they have to protect Team 5 as they are their Informant.

and that, is the first two paragraphs of his message to me that he wished posted.

[Jd-]

Deleted.

You definitely shouldn't be corresponding with dead players in any way, about anything regarding the game, in private messages while you are still alive. For any reason.

[Iwamoto Yuri]

Deleted.

You definitely shouldn't be corresponding with dead players in any way, about anything regarding the game, in private messages while you are still alive. For any reason.

This exactly, I'm stressing everybody not to communicate with other players through pm, dead or alive. Every evidence coming from pms beside mine is not valid.
Also, again, don'show your list until the game ends.

[KainTheVampire]

.... ....It's okay for dead partners to talk on, right? *still discussing with Jellitto* :x

[shinichi'sapprentice]

oh. misunderstanding. partner wished to have the entire message to be posted. here goes:

Hypothetically speaking, if Team 5 actually were the Spy, there's be no lists disproving that they are and no one would speak up, but the Informant would likely to pretend to have such a list to protect them. So the number of people that would speak up should be one. And that's exactly what we're witnessing here. Is that a coincidence?

Well, that's what it looks like on the surface. But Jecka did say in a post they're unsure about Team 5 and only later changed it to saying they're Team 5 to be a Spy. I think Jex is more likely to miss the fact that they can infer certain things from their list considering that a particular team turned out to be the Spy, than that they have to protect Team 5 as they are their Informant.

Either way I'm surprised that not more teams speak up like Jex and Miyano did. Statistically speaking more teams should have lists that indicate what Miyano and Jex are saying their list does. So I'm inclined to believe them, actually.

I'd advise not voting Team 5. But first an foremost we have to prevent a tie 'cause that's just as bad for a than lynching a civilian...

If you agree copy and into the topic. I won't be here really until much after phase change, so you make the call when the time has come for it.

"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
↑one of my favorite quotes.

Team 3 still hasn't changed their vote.

[miyano_shiho]

Deleted.

You definitely shouldn't be corresponding with dead players in any way, about anything regarding the game, in private messages while you are still alive. For any reason.

I wasn't corresponding with them. They just randomly pmed me saying thay I might have broken the rules. I did not respond.

It's not in my nature to break rules and I should have maybe pmed the gm first, but I doubt the rule is enough to make a decision. I am very sorry.

Take me out of the game if you want.

[Fujiwara]

Just to make this perfectly clear, I didn't share any information at all with anyone. I would never do that. I merely explained to her that she was in violation if the rules. I did this before all of you started discussing the matter, because I thought it would be best if she deleted those things asap, they're clearly screwing up the game balance.

I'm very sorry that I broke a rule in the process. It will never happen again, I only wanted to salvage the round. But seriously, no information, theories or whatever were shared. On my honor.

[Memesu]

Well, I´m glad you came to that conclusion :x I kinda feel like voting Miyano now, mainly based on how things have been going.

[Jd-]

Just to make this perfectly clear, I didn't share any information at all with anyone. I would never do that. I merely explained to her that she was in violation if the rules. I did this before all of you started discussing the matter, because I thought it would be best if she deleted those things asap, they're clearly screwing up the game balance.

I'm very sorry that I broke a rule in the process. It will never happen again, I only wanted to salvage the round. But seriously, no information, theories or whatever were shared. On my honor.

No worries at all; I have no doubt that's what happened and that it was all in the interests of the game. It was just the way that Miyano phrased it that made it seem strange.

Let's all move on to focusing on this phase and potentially the next (should there be one).