DC and culture

[mangaluva]

Forget it. I think we're missing each other entirely. Possibly British history is influencing me too much; the building of the British Empire was based on the (wrong) belief that culture and customs that were different were uncivilized primarily because they were different to the "British" way of doing things (a very common comment in old letters concerning massacres and so on in the name of the Empire was "we're just trying to civilize[i/] them, doncherknow?") I'm just saying that I don't consider differences in culture uncivilized, but some people do (less than in Imperial days, but I still meet people who consider Koreans uncivilized for eating dogs). I'm not saying that it's true, but it's just how some people feel.

What was the original point of the argument again?

[c-square]

What was the original point of the argument again?

I believe it was TheBlind's comment that:

Expecting someone to imitate you're way of doing things while disregarding they're way of doing things isn't right in my book. Yes, each individual should strive to learn something from another culture, especially when visiting the country, but they can't be expected to conform and when they do not, see it as a lack of intelligence or commitment.

And I think we've determined that there are varying opinions here, and that it's probably best to agree to disagree on this one.

[mangaluva]

True. Anyway, new question:

Is there actually an official religion in Japan (like Britain is officially Christian, even though a very low proportion of the country is actually practising)? I know Buddhism is common in that area, but they also seem to celebrate Christmas (a Christan holiday), and holidays like Setsubun seem to be more of a superstitious nature than religious. So does anybody know what the situation is on religion in Japan?

[c-square]

True. Anyway, new question:

Is there actually an official religion in Japan (like Britain is officially Christian, even though a very low proportion of the country is actually practising)? I know Buddhism is common in that area, but they also seem to celebrate Christmas (a Christan holiday), and holidays like Setsubun seem to be more of a superstitious nature than religious. So does anybody know what the situation is on religion in Japan?

I don't know if it's declared official by law, but the traditional religion of Japan is Shintoism.  For those who don't know about it, Shintoism involves the worship of numerous spirit gods who most commonly live in natural objects like trees, giant rocks, or areas of nature such as waterfalls.  Shrines have been built by the Japanese to protect these areas and to worship these gods, though the gods are not limited to these areas and can move freely.  In fact, for one month each year, it is believed that all the Shinto gods leave their homes to attend an annual meeting in an ancient shrine in Izumo, in western Honshu.  Although powerful, Shinto gods are believed to have limited power, possess human-like emotions, and are prone to mistakes and overreactions.  Overall, however, Shinto gods are perceived to be benevolent and kind to those who respect them, and will give blessings to those who ask.  (For a good introduction to the Japanese perception of Shinto gods, I highly recommend watching My Neighbor Totoro, Princess Mononoke or Spirited Away)

One quick thing to keep in mind: There are very few people in Japan who are monotheistic.  With an overall mindset that 'There are many gods', most Japanese practice both Shintoism AND Buddhism, participating in rituals for each at their appropriate times.  This polytheistic way of thinking also means that many Japanese see no problems with participating in Christian rituals in addition to Shinto and Buddhist ones.  There's a saying I heard while I was there (I hope I'm remembering it correctly):  In Japan, one is born Shinto, marries Christian and dies Buddhist.  And, for the record, Christmas Eve in Japan is largely seen as a day to go out on a date with your significant other, not to stay home with family.

[scineram]

Forget it. I think we're missing each other entirely. Possibly British history is influencing me too much; the building of the British Empire was based on the (wrong) belief that culture and customs that were different were uncivilized primarily because they were different to the "British" way of doing things (a very common comment in old letters concerning massacres and so on in the name of the Empire was "we're just trying to civilize[i/] them, doncherknow?") I'm just saying that I don't consider differences in culture uncivilized, but some people do (less than in Imperial days, but I still meet people who consider Koreans uncivilized for eating dogs). I'm not saying that it's true, but it's just how some people feel.

What was the original point of the argument again?

Widow burning was just diversity.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

True. Anyway, new question:

Is there actually an official religion in Japan (like Britain is officially Christian, even though a very low proportion of the country is actually practising)? I know Buddhism is common in that area, but they also seem to celebrate Christmas (a Christan holiday), and holidays like Setsubun seem to be more of a superstitious nature than religious. So does anybody know what the situation is on religion in Japan?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Japan

[TheBlind]

Dear Sir,

The deal is off unless my entire loliharem comes with me.  Including future loliharemspeople.

Fine sir, you have played your hand...and lost. You are free to go but The Republic of Lolination has already departed to this location. Seems someone tipped them off about your whereabouts, so run my friend run and enjoy the little time you have before they find and consume you.

I watched a programme before and it is about using selective breeding on or genetically modifying animals in order to get the best possible products out of them. Some were just seriously weird, cows with extremely huge bulky muscles and featherless chickens (which looked seriously horrible) and all these are what goes onto our plate - in almost every developed country.

Is this civilised? i mean a featherless chicken will never be able to survive in the outside environment on its own and it was us humans who made them like that, i know that we have to consume other animals, but aren't we just toying with them now just to suit our needs?

I agree all the way with this.

all im saying is the word 'civilised' is the wrong word for this context, the moment you eat or kill an animal - you are not 'civilised', you're a savage that takes animal's lives 

I don't agree with this. If you attack an animal humanly with a quick strike from a sharp object that will kill them almost instantly, then that could be considered civilized behavior(provided you have a valid reason for killing the animal). Should we kill animals? That is a different debate.

Forget it. I think we're missing each other entirely. Possibly British history is influencing me too much; the building of the British Empire was based on the (wrong) belief that culture and customs that were different were uncivilized primarily because they were different to the "British" way of doing things (a very common comment in old letters concerning massacres and so on in the name of the Empire was "we're just trying to civilize[i/] them, doncherknow?") I'm just saying that I don't consider differences in culture uncivilized, but some people do (less than in Imperial days, but I still meet people who consider Koreans uncivilized for eating dogs). I'm not saying that it's true, but it's just how some people feel.

Yes I think we are but I do get your point.

And I think we've determined that there are varying opinions here, and that it's probably best to agree to disagree on this one.

*in a James Bond villain voice..the one with the cat, I'm too young to remember his actual name*
Yes.....after a battle to the death that will determine who is right we can do that. Of course I'm civilized, so if after the battle you still wish to disagree..you may raise you hand in a civilized manner...but dead people can't move can they.*pets fictional cat while laughing*. Also I will have this rabbit take my place in the battle as it is uncivilized to take part in such violence, let it begin!

[Melissa]

Just a quick answer cause you asked me to do it. I didn't read all the answers but about the 2 questions of this topic I can say that:

1- Taking shoes off. It does exist in many cultures, but I like to know the origin(the reason)  why people do it this strictly, to an extent that whenever Conan is rushing to a crime scene, he does not forget to throw his shoes while he is in hurry. Moreover, shoes and slippers, has drawn his attention in many cases in crime scenes.

2-How accurate did Gosho represent Japan and Japanese people in his work. Before, I thought that Japanese are geeks, serious, lack a good humour...(please do not be insulted) but DC has given me a different picture.

I can't explain the origin exactly but japanese people just think outside the floor is dirty so they don't want to bring some dust or something else inside the house.
Well, of course, today we can easily clean the house but in fact this is really important in japanese culture to respect the traditional customs.
This is really hard for me to explain why they are so stricts about that but actually it depends of people. USUALLY people take off their shoes before entering a house but some young people don't do it. But japanese people consider it as really bad manners. You just have to do it and that's all.

I think from a long time ago, japanese people consider it's better to keep the tradition as it is than let it evolve/change.
That's maybe why you still have so strong feeling about the respect of customs like taking the shoes away or something else.

And about DC, I think you should put it into perspective.
You have many really young readers for DC manga. So the author should show them a good image of the heros and heroines. That's why Conan, Ran etc are so perfect et show us so good manners. Except the way of speaking of Shinichi, Heiji and Kaito - which is "shonen manga" like - the others characters - especially female teens and children - are really polite. Too much polite to be true. But DC is just a manga. And the characters are just stereotypes.

So of course you have a quite good image of Japan when you read DC. but that's not exactly the true reality of Japan.
Policemen are not so nice with people and you also have corrupted cops (especially in Osaka... someone told me once: "if you think you have some problems with yakuza once, NEVER talk about that to the police. They have connections between each other. That may complicate your problems." Well, I have never had any problem with yakuza but that's just an example to say that nothing is perfect.)

But in fact there are some topics they can't talk in the manga. Did you realize you never see a chapter about rape in DC? Does that mean there is no rape in Japan? Of course not.

Well I think that's all for my explanation. That's a personal opinion of course.
I don't really see what you mean about your image of the japanese work. 

As I said, I don't plan to come back on this forum for a long time. So if you need some help, I would prefer you MP me. Cause I don't receive email from topic update. Just from private message. So if you want I answer you soon...

So see you... And sorry for my too bad english.

[Callid]

But in fact there are some topics they can't talk in the manga. Did you realize you never see a chapter about rape in DC? Does that mean there is no rape in Japan? Of course not.

Well, rape seems to happen less often in Japan than in (almost) every other country of the First World. Just some statistics (source: UN statistics: http://www.unodc.org/pdf/crime/eighthsurvey/8sv.pdf page 40-41):


Country  Rapes per 100000
Canada  77.64
USA  32.99
Germany  10.44
Switzerland    6.64
Italy  4.41
Japan  1.85
Malta  1.26


As you see, Japan's rate is really low. The only state of the First World to beat it is indeed Malta (if I haven't missed one).
Although unreported rapes are not included, this doesn't change much. Even if only 10% were reported in Japan and every case in the USA, it would still be lower.

[Nyarl]

But in fact there are some topics they can't talk in the manga. Did you realize you never see a chapter about rape in DC? Does that mean there is no rape in Japan? Of course not.

Well, rape seems to happen less often in Japan than in (almost) every other country of the First World. Just some statistics (source: UN statistics: http://www.unodc.org/pdf/crime/eighthsurvey/8sv.pdf page 40-41):


Country  Rapes per 100000
Canada  77.64
USA  32.99
Germany  10.44
Switzerland    6.64
Italy  4.41
Japan  1.85
Malta  1.26


As you see, Japan's rate is really low. The only state of the First World to beat it is indeed Malta (if I haven't missed one).
Although unreported rapes are not included, this doesn't change much. Even if only 10% were reported in Japan and every case in the USA, it would still be lower.

That report doesn't have Japan's murder rate for some reason, but the rate it has for attempted murder is about a third of that for the rapes. Japan's murder rate is probably lower, too.

The reason rape isn't mentioned explicitly in the manga is probably the same reason Conan gets “nosebleedsâ€

[TheBlind]

But in fact there are some topics they can't talk in the manga. Did you realize you never see a chapter about rape in DC? Does that mean there is no rape in Japan? Of course not.

Well, rape seems to happen less often in Japan than in (almost) every other country of the First World. Just some statistics (source: UN statistics: http://www.unodc.org/pdf/crime/eighthsurvey/8sv.pdf page 40-41):


Country  Rapes per 100000
Canada  77.64
USA  32.99
Germany  10.44
Switzerland    6.64
Italy  4.41
Japan  1.85
Malta  1.26


As you see, Japan's rate is really low. The only state of the First World to beat it is indeed Malta (if I haven't missed one).
Although unreported rapes are not included, this doesn't change much. Even if only 10% were reported in Japan and every case in the USA, it would still be lower.

I have to step in here, using numbers is always a poor choice when analyzing rape, especially in Japan as the numbers only tell a part of the story. Many studies conducted over the years have found that rape and molestation is HEAVILY under reported in Japan(though increasing last two years but I'll come back to this). Reason for this is studies and social behavior analyst have found that the culture in Japan influences how rape is viewed. Being raped or molested in Japan is seen as a shameful/dishonorable act on part of the victim(this where the main problem lies as other Countries usually side with the victim) which is way many keep quiet, there are also many other social reprcussions with revealing a rape/molestation that may not be present in other Countries.

Another deterrent(which has also improved) was Japan had low marks when it came to "after service"(sexual assault evidence collection kit, where they do various things and procedures with the victim to help them cope with what just happened) sensitivity of the victims. In a research(I'm paraphrasing multiple research documents I have read over the years for classes and personal curiosity, but I'll try to find and link every single one if an online copy is available) conducted in 2007, independent interviewers(aka not from Japan) found that the Japanese legal infrastructures,  forensically medical fields, and police justice systems were very weak when it came to dealing appropriately with the victim and the gathering evidence properly against the culprit in comparison to other countries, and this was traced to social behavior(to add a human side to this, I can't recall fully of hand but there was an incident where a group of Japanese male college students created a plan to rape multiple girls by inviting them to a party, they succeed but it was reported and was a huge scandal. While interviewing a top government official in this department, he said all the right things on cameras but after they were shut off, or he believed them to be, he joked(not funny at all) that it was the fault of the girls, because they were from the "country" and should of known better.... just adding an example.)

Now, to get back to the point I said I would return to, many of the negative sides of this are being slowly fixed and with more and more western influence(and Japan seeking outside help from other countries in this field..or so they say) rape and molestation reports are increasing. This is because victims are more comfortable coming forward now but with that said, this places Japan on a similar stage as other countries. As their reported rape crimes increase, their rape convictions are decreasing (still higher than many other countries though but as 2007 is looked to be on a decreasing spiral but still good enough to beat many other countries including UK and USA)(a more recent research/news piece/ analysis might give a better definition of where they stand now, but I still believe them to be near the top). And finally, though the numbers are broken down by groups(100000-1000-etc.) you still have to use population size as a factor instead of just looking at pure numbers.

And to be fair: The UK has problems when it comes to getting evidence to place rape culprits behind bars. Under-reporting is also a problem in the UK.(not to be believed as big as Japan)
Similar things apply to the USA and of course each respective country has their own problems and social influences on this matter which is why I say numbers only tell a part of the story(I would get into it but this is not the place for it). Sorry for turning this thread into a rape analyst thread.

[mangaluva]

Without quoting TheBlind's asslong post, you do make some good points. Rape is one of the most difficult crimes to deal with in just about any culture (especially as it's so prone to leaving the victim with guilt, some uniquely nasty psychological trauma and other long-term physical effects, such as interior scarring, STIs and unwanted pregnancies), and in a culture like Japan's i'm not entirely surprised that rape or molestation is less likely to be admitted and handled with the most sensitivity towards the victim. It's a crying shame because it really is an utterly horrific thing to suffer, and while it's most likely to leave guilt on the part of the victim, that just means that the victim needs to get all the more assurance that it isn't their fault. It is NEVER the victim's fault. Flirting with the wrong guy might be a stupid mistake but it's not a rape invitation and should never be treated as such. I'm going to cut myself off now before I rant, but it's an issue I feel strongly about.

[Callid]

@ TheBlind:
I were totally aware of what you said (well, I wasn't sure as I hadn't read any report, but I thought so, having got a guess of Japanese culture), but I don't believe this will change the number with a larger factor than x3, or, perhaps, x5 in comparison with the other listed nations. But even after multiplying, the respective numbers are 5.55 and 9.25 - still lower than Germany and a lot lower than the USA and Canada. They are also still far under the - as you said strongly underreported - numbers of the British Isles, respectively England and Wales (21), Northern Island (21.04) and Scotland (14.74).
Choosing the example of the US, if we believe that 50% are reported there, to gain the same number of rapes in Japan, the Japanese reporting percentage had to be 2.8%.

So, to put it short:
Yes, you're right, but that's not enough to explain a number that low.

[c-square]

TheBlind, that is a very well articulated and presented argument, and I completely agree, the culture of Japan has been and still is one in which the reporting of rape is discouraged and, in some ways, punished.  Moreover, rape is not always seen as the social evil it is.  For example, there are manga in which men rape women and the men are shown as being the heroes of these comics.  There was one that was even titled The Rapeman(wiki).  Similarly, videos of pornographic rape scenes as well as video games depicting rape can be found in some Japanese stores.  There are many great things about Japan, but unfortunately women's rights lag about 20 years behind most other 'developed' nations.

[kholoudsafir]

After watching ep. 565 today a question came to my mind. May be we can see this in other cultures, but I do not know any except Japan so far, so if you know another one please share your info.

Wearing a mask when you have a cold. I thought it was a personal choice( that's why I did not ask before), but Meguri has asked the culprit today, when he was a suspect about his mask, when he knew he got a cold, so is it a rule? or a personal choice?