Kogorous Riddle Thread and eworms Deduction Thread

[sstimson]

Start with a simple question. Where as in which BFR did Tomoya almost kill the President?

BFR 1 Victim Professor Kentaro Akihisa. Tomoya does not appear.
BFR 2 Victim Kentaro Akito. Again no Tomoya in that Riddle.
BFR 3 No Victim.

So which one or message are you talking about?

Also Tomoya did not notice the lady switch even though he did dated her? ( I find it funny that the Gambler noticed after a few dates, and Tomoya who likely dated her several times did not. )

If you right about those two hooking up then there a good chance they slepted in a tent together and he was near the door. Tomoya would have to walk on him to get to her. Did he drug him as well? I sure she would want a guard to help protect her and even though she is not Sanae, she would convince the Gambler to help protect her. This might be a case where all know about the switch but for the killer and Again I think it unlikely he did not.

Why do I say the above. Here why:

Ryouko knows she not Sanae.
Ryouko likely got Shinichi to help protect her.
I think Goshi would notice how those two are behaving and learn about the switch.
Again if Tomoya know about Sanae as good as I think he does, he should think something is off about Sanae.

Because if Tomoya learned about the switch would he still try to kill her? I think not.

Which statement is right?

1)The club president Yoshimizu Outa isn't here. Well, recently he's got himself a girlfriend so it's nothing unusual. And thanks to that, Tomoya, being the vice-president, has been put in charge. (Likely by the Outa himself)

2) Let's summarise the facts a bit: Outa was attacked by Tomoya, but – unbeknownst to him – survived and is now in a hospital. From there he's communicating with Y who's disguised as Sanae and aims to stop Tomoya from killing.

Both seem to happen but as I tried to show both can not happen. And again when did Tomoya attack Outa?

We start with those. But more are coming.

[eworm]

eworm here is always open for a discussion!  ;)

Start with a simple question. Where as in which BFR did Tomoya almost kill the President?

  It was between the BFR#3 and BFR#4 of course. I told you there was a lot going on behind the scenes, that Tomoya thought he had already killed somebody and that Outa's absence was unusual. And I never told you that the reason he didn't show up on the trip is because of Ryouko - Tomoya was hoping everyone would think that.
  If you think it's unfair for me not to make a riddle about Tomoya almost killing Outa before this one - well, that's just how it is. You were supposed to figure out what had happened before the trip yourselves. You made a lot of hypothesises about Shinichi having gambled Tomoya out of money in the past, or about Tomoya being Goshi's number one fan... Why not think about Outa too?

Also Tomoya did not notice the lady switch even though he did dated her? ( I find it funny that the Gambler noticed after a few dates, and Tomoya who likely dated her several times did not. )

They dated alright - but they broke up and that's why she was avoiding him! Ryouko avoided Tomoya too, because if Sanae suddenly had no problem with Tomoya around, it would be unusual. Also, Tomoya was thinking about murdering her - he instinctively kept his distance from the future victim, so that nobody would suspect him.

If you right about those two hooking up then there a good chance they slepted in a tent together and he was near the door. Tomoya would have to walk on him to get to her. Did he drug him as well?

I said that, didn't I? It's highly likely the two don't know about each others' feelings. Sanae doesn't know Shinichi likes her, Shinichi doesn't know she's interested in him... They wouldn't go as far as to sleep together in one tent - especially since Sanae is shy - she probably wouldn't want to do such a thing on a trip with others.

Ryouko likely got Shinichi to help protect her.

And how did she know Tomoya didn't have accomplices? Could Outa guarantee her that? We know that he knew who the victim was going to be, but he probably couldn't be sure Tomoya would act on his own. Sure, he trusted his fellow club members a lot - but Tomoya had already betrayed that trust, and Gosho joined just recently... Also, Ryouko herself is kinda stubborn and self-confident. Would she ask for help? Also, Ryouko was doing her best to act like the shy Sanae would - that's another reason why she wouldn't talk much with a popular guy like Shinichi.

I think Goshi would notice how those two are behaving and learn about the switch.

And would he know how they would behave normally? Remember he joined the club recently, he didn't know the two very well - even worse than Tomoya who worked for him a bit in the past.

Again if Tomoya know about Sanae as good as I think he does, he should think something is off about Sanae.

Like I said - they both were keeping a distance between them.

1)The club president Yoshimizu Outa isn't here. Well, recently he's got himself a girlfriend so it's nothing unusual. And thanks to that, Tomoya, being the vice-president, has been put in charge. (Likely by the Outa himself)

No, not by Outa - by default. If the president is absent, the vice-president takes over. I thought that was obvious?

2) Let's summarise the facts a bit: Outa was attacked by Tomoya, but – unbeknownst to him – survived and is now in a hospital. From there he's communicating with Y who's disguised as Sanae and aims to stop Tomoya from killing.

Both seem to happen but as I tried to show both can not happen.

They could, and they did, as I tried to show above.
Tell me if anything else is unclear.

[VQ]

Ok, new riddle:

Spoiler:

Arrange nine different numbers in the squares between 1 and 51 so that any 3 numbers have the same sum when added vertically, horizontally, and diagonally (like the red lines).

Several combinations are possible, but your objective is to arrange the numbers to get the highest possible total.

eworm I admit I didn't try to solve your Brain Frying riddle because I thought it was probably poorly constructed, but you are getting better, the solution of this one fits well. I'll definitely try your next Brain Frying riddle. Be prepared.

Spoiler:

Can you create new characters for the next one not related to the characters of the other Brain Frying riddles? I'm too lazy to reread the riddles again, but that's just me.

[kidSherlock]

@vq i can solve that

Spoiler:

50 43 48
46 51 44
45 47 49

answer is 141

[VQ]

@vq i can solve that

Spoiler:

50 43 48
46 51 44
45 47 49

answer is 141

Close, but wrong, here is why:

Spoiler:

[eworm]

eworm I admit I didn't try to solve your Brain Frying riddle because I thought it was probably poorly constructed, but you are getting better, the solution of this one fits well. I'll definitely try your next Brain Frying riddle. Be prepared.

Spoiler:

Can you create new characters for the next one not related to the characters of the other Brain Frying riddles? I'm too lazy to reread the riddles again, but that's just me.

Glad to hear you liked it.

Spoiler:

I know creating an unrelated one would be the best way to gather both lazy competitors and newcomers - and lazy newcomers too. It's just... I've come to like all the characters a lot and I'd love to let them grow more and more interesting...

Well, I already have an idea how to... Nevermind, you'll see. I want to do something amazing for the FIFTH Brain-Frying Riddle, so stay tuned!

And about your riddle's answer:

Spoiler:

50 45 46
43 47 51
48 49 44

The sum is 141.

[kidSherlock]

awch, i was wrong, didn't have time to check.

and yeah

@eworm

i also liked the bfr#4

[VQ]

eworm I admit I didn't try to solve your Brain Frying riddle because I thought it was probably poorly constructed, but you are getting better, the solution of this one fits well. I'll definitely try your next Brain Frying riddle. Be prepared.

Spoiler:

Can you create new characters for the next one not related to the characters of the other Brain Frying riddles? I'm too lazy to reread the riddles again, but that's just me.

Glad to hear you liked it.

Spoiler:

I know creating an unrelated one would be the best way to gather both lazy competitors and newcomers - and lazy newcomers too. It's just... I've come to like all the characters a lot and I'd love to let them grow more and more interesting...

Well, I already have an idea how to... Nevermind, you'll see. I want to do something amazing for the FIFTH Brain-Frying Riddle, so stay tuned!

And about your riddle's answer:

Spoiler:

50 45 46
43 47 51
48 49 44

The sum is 141.

Good one, but you have to get the largest total possible and it's not 141.  BTW you just have to add up the numbers in the direction of the red lines, the blue lines don't count.

[c-square]

BTW you just have to add up the numbers in the direction of the red lines, the blue lines don't count.

In that case:

Spoiler:

50 49 48
47 51 46
45 44 43

Sum of 3 numbers: 144

[VQ]

BTW you just have to add up the numbers in the direction of the red lines, the blue lines don't count.

In that case:

Spoiler:

50 49 48
47 51 46
45 44 43

Sum of 3 numbers: 144

Correct. Your turn.

[eworm]

Give us a good one, Andre

Already thinking about the BFR#5. But, oh man, it looks like there's too many characters to introduce a bunch of new ones - and yet I want to make this one easily available for newcomers too.

Just take a look at the list of all the characters so far (previous BFRs spoilers):

Spoiler:

Some of the characters can not be used any more - dead or imprisoned - and there were some from the Conan universe too.

Kentaro Akihisa
Kentaro Akito
Tsukamoto Keiko
Shimada Eiji
Mariya Yuki
Anegasaki Yusuke
Anegasaki Ryouko
Yoshimizu Outa
Tanaka Shirou
Aizawa Shinichi
Aitake Sanae
Misawa Tomoya
Aoyamo Goshi
detective Takagi Wataru
inspector Megure Juzo
inspector Nakamori Ginzo
Kaitou KID

At least nine still useable and interesting ones. And you're telling me to create more of them? I'd much rather create an awesome Brain-Frying Riddle starring all of them and only them!

[sstimson]

@eworm and BRF 4. You broke an unwriten rule

If you had written that from the POV of Tomoya you would have been ok, but you did not.

Narrative mode requires that all you say be true and nothing important be left out. If you had written from Tomoya POV as if he was retelling the events then as he is trying to deceive, ok would be ok for him to leave things out. But when you take the narrative POV, we the reader are forced to get all our information from that and it should be complete and truthful.This is even more true for a mystery. I guess I am saying you cheated.

Another request would be the time factor. How long was Tomoya seeing Sanae, and how long have they been broken up.

Also let me point something out to you in case you missed it.

In your BFR 2 you ended with a character in the hospital and a special friend beside them. I thought reading this riddle, that since you said reread the old ones the person that Sanae was talking I though was her friend bedside in that one. If you had put in your narrative a time factor and possible the fact that they were out of the hospital, It would have been less of a cheat.

Also you left the impression, that the boss was staying behind with his lady friend and again not being fair in the narrative mode. Again I am saying you cheated. Also as I pointed out you left your puzzle too open and that means my deduction, while not the one you were looking for is a fair one based on the very limited information you did give.

You likely find my criticism unfair and overly critical. I would like to see your riddles rise to the area of the greats like AC, Conan Doyle, and PD James. Again I offer my help to keep you honest. Please keep your cheating to a minimum.

[eworm]

Brain-Frying Riddle #4 spoilers ahead.

@sstimson - Well, I understand your opinions, I really do... And yet I can't agree with most of them.

Also you left the impression, that the boss was staying behind with his lady friend and again not being fair in the narrative mode. Again I am saying you cheated.

Even the third-person narrative text can be - and very often is - written from a certain character's point of view. It's not limited to just first-person narration. That's exactly the case here:

  Misawa Tomoya decided to murder that person and he had just the plan. He shall do it during the trip organised by their fishing-club, the trip to their usual top-secret spot.  The club president Yoshimizu Outa isn't here. Well, recently he's got himself a girlfriend so it's nothing unusual.

That's Tomoya's thoughts. He is glad there is a plausible reason for Outa not to be there.

Narrative mode requires that all you say be true and nothing important be left out

That's just wrong. So what, should I have told you the answer? 'Cause that's important too. I did not leave anything important out - except for the important things that were possible to deduce from the facts given.

In your BFR 2 you ended with a character in the hospital and a special friend beside them. I thought reading this riddle, that since you said reread the old ones the person that Sanae was talking I though was her friend bedside in that one. If you had put in your narrative a time factor and possible the fact that they were out of the hospital, It would have been less of a cheat.

And the riddle would have been pointless. But in all honesty - it's not very probable for the person on the phone to have been Kentaro Akito or Tsukamoto Keiko (is that what you're suggesting?). Why would Akitake Sanae have any connection with them? Why would they worry about each other so much? Yoshimizu Outa, on the other hand, is her club president, so they know each other, that we can be sure of. Read the deduction again. You gotta agree it makes sense, right?

Also as I pointed out you left your puzzle too open and that means my deduction, while not the one you were looking for is a fair one based on the very limited information you did give.

Let's not talk in that manner. Can you imagine a detective who put an innocent person in jail and then says: "Well, that's what I deduced from the information I had, so it's not my fault"? What's important here is the result - the correct answer, not a probable answer.

You likely find my criticism unfair and overly critical. I would like to see your riddles rise to the area of the greats like AC, Conan Doyle, and PD James. Again I offer my help to keep you honest. Please keep your cheating to a minimum.

The Brain-Frying Riddles are meant for the contestants to enjoy having their brans fried. But still - enjoy. So if there's anybody who can't enjoy them for some reason, I should think of how to change that. That's certain. I'm glad to hear your opinions and I hope I'll be able to create riddles you won't find any "cheating" in. Believe me, with every BFR I'm trying hard to be as fair with all of you as possible. It's just that that I have to give you a) enough info for you to be able to solve the riddle, and b) as little info as possible. It's hard to meet these conditions.

The possible solution to the problem
What about bringing back the "First Deduction Help"? It's about the first deduction or just the list of ideas that you send to me being carefully analysed by me... And then I tell you what's right and what's wrong. Even the answer (I mean - the culprit, the victim, or whatever it is in the current BFR). It's a lot of help, maybe a bit too much, but that way I'll be able to see if you are misunderstanding anything and correct you in time. For example if you sent me a deduction where you say "we know that Outa isn't there because of his girlfriend, Ryouko", I'd be able to notice "Hey, look carefully, there's nothing like that said in the riddle!". Get it?

[c-square]

Correct! your turn.

Okay, figure out this code:

Gud bsnr ud Fryrvyubr Vibsb!

[Mr. E]

Correct! your turn.

Okay, figure out this code:

Gud bsnr ud Fryrvyubr Vibsb!

Spoiler:

His name is Detective Conan!